Gazza

[Fjmcity]

2 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said:

absolutely right Phantom, a couple of years ago I had the sad misfortune to take a minibus hen party from Bristol to Butlins Minehead. I  ( as a 69 year old guy ) have never heard such atrocious language in my life and sexual descriptions from not only the younger element but also the older and it takes a lot to shock me ( ex RAF with 2 daughters). We nearly cancelled their return journey as the other 2 minibus drivers experienced the same. We got our own back on the return however as they were very badly hung-over so found every pothole between Minehead and Bristol.

sorry bud, you cant compare the above in bold to any discussion relating to unwanted physical contact or the other issues we have been circling around in this discussion.

Your poor ears.

[Up The City!]

4 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

Why not? It's a perfect example of the societal issue here.

He was found not guilty.

If you wish to continue to imply he's guilty, then you run the risk of being the subject to civil action from Gazza.

[Sir Geoff]

Seems as though CPS backed the wrong horse in going for the difficult to prove 'Sexual' assault. May have (with hindsight, i know) been easier to prove common assault....but even that is a bit tenuous.

[marcofisher]

2 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

He was found not guilty.

If you wish to continue to imply he's guilty, then you run the risk of being the subject to civil action from Gazza.

Sorry mate, but I have said he has kissed a woman against her will, which he and his barrister have admitted. 

So I run no risk of civil action. 

[oldstandrobin]

2 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

sorry bud, you cant compare the above in bold to any discussion relating to unwanted physical contact or the other issues we have been circling around in this discussion.

Your poor ears.

heard worse......went into a pub a few years ago in Horfield and heard three gasheads discussing promotion to the premiership for the sags............ had to go home and take an extra valium

[Up The City!]

1 minute ago, marcofisher said:

Sorry mate, but I have said he has kissed a woman against her will, which he and his barrister have admitted. 

So I run no risk of civil action. 

Yet he was found not guilty of that.

Maybe the jury didn't believe his version of events?

[marcofisher]

2 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Yet he was found not guilty of that.

Maybe the jury didn't believe his version of events?

He was found not guilty of sexual assault, which as previously mentioned may have not been the correct charge to go for. 

He still kissed the woman against her will irregardless. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Blinking blimey .... you’ve had a “Weston Super” with that comment ...

For any player to go down as a great, or world class, they have to do it consistently at the very highest level.

Gazza had brilliant potential when playing so well in the old English first division, a standard nowhere near the levels of the very top leagues. English sides were almost always terrible when up against the elite European sides. It wasn't like the standard of today's premier league.

He moved to the very highest level in Italy, and was never great there. Moments of brilliance, sure. We have seen others with the ability do brilliant things with a football on occasions like Le Tissier, it doesn't make them a great. He did have one decent run of form in his time there, but nothing really outstanding.

Obviously after that he took the easy option going to Scotland. Was then very poor at Boro. And actually did quite well very briefly for Everton.

There is a myth that he was brilliant against Germany in the world cup 1990. He was actually pretty poor. Germany did a job on him and he kept giving the ball away.

Piers Morgan compared him with Pele and Marradona. Crazy shout really. And many others said similarly over the top comments on Gazza.

 

[Eddie Hitler]

6 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

For any player to go down as a great, or world class, they have to do it consistently at the very highest level.

Gazza had brilliant potential when playing so well in the old English first division, a standard nowhere near the levels of the very top leagues. English sides were almost always terrible when up against the elite European sides. It wasn't like the standard of today's premier league.

He moved to the very highest level in Italy, and was never great there. Moments of brilliance, sure. We have seen others with the ability do brilliant things with a football on occasions like Le Tissier, it doesn't make them a great. He did have one decent run of form in his time there, but nothing really outstanding.

Obviously after that he took the easy option going to Scotland. Was then very poor at Boro. And actually did quite well very briefly for Everton.

There is a myth that he was brilliant against Germany in the world cup 1990. He was actually pretty poor. Germany did a job on him and he kept giving the ball away.

Piers Morgan compared him with Pele and Marradona. Crazy shout really. And many others said similarly over the top comments on Gazza.

 

I'd say that he was world class up to the very bad knee injury he got tackling Gray Charles in 1991 (and it was entirely Gazza's fault) when he would have been 23.  

After that he was still very good indeed but he was never quite as good again so I agree that he can't be considered as being up there as one of the greats; more a "great to watch".

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

I'd say that he was world class up to the very bad knee injury he got tackling Gray Charles in 1991 (and it was entirely Gazza's fault) when he would have been 23.  

After that he was still very good indeed but he was never quite as good again so I agree that he can't be considered as being up there as one of the greats; more a "great to watch".

The thing for me is he never did it at that time at the very highest level for me. The English top flight was not great compared to leagues like Italy. 

Also I would say surely he should have adapted his game better. Paul Scholes became better as he got older and slower for example.

And is it even true that he lost his pace? He did get himself very fit for Lazio at one point and there were times he looked pretty quick. No doubt that injury did not help, but I feel it's an excuse people have for him.

I'm not saying he didn't have very special attributes. But I feel he was very overrated when there were plenty of bad games as as well as good. He had his moments of brilliance, but he was far too erratic and I could not compare him with the very best of that era.

Strangely no one ever seems to talk about David Platt, who scored about 1 in 2 for England. Was a huge success in Italy with Sampdoria. Not quite so much at Juventus where he suffered injury as well as a few ridiculously good midfielders competing with him. Maybe he's a slightly underrated player.

 

[Eddie Hitler]

20 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

The thing for me is he never did it at that time at the very highest level for me. The English top flight was not great compared to leagues like Italy. 

Also I would say surely he should have adapted his game better. Paul Scholes became better as he got older and slower for example.

And is it even true that he lost his pace? He did get himself very fit for Lazio at one point and there were times he looked pretty quick. No doubt that injury did not help, but I feel it's an excuse people have for him.

I'm not saying he didn't have very special attributes. But I feel he was very overrated when there were plenty of bad games as as well as good. He had his moments of brilliance, but he was far too erratic and I could not compare him with the very best of that era.

Strangely no one ever seems to talk about David Platt, who scored about 1 in 2 for England. Was a huge success in Italy with Sampdoria. Not quite so much at Juventus where he suffered injury as well as a few ridiculously good midfielders competing with him. Maybe he's a slightly underrated player.

 

I think the lack of love for Platt was that his qualities were to be in the right place at the right time and finishing.  Don't get me wrong these are top qualities but what you love as a fan is creator; someone who can turn a nothing poistion into a successful attack.

This may be a Gazza or Ross Barclay type who from a deep midfield position suddenly sprints around a couple of players and makes a defence-splitting pass or someone like Akinbiyi who picks the ball up deep and runs with it towards goal.  Similarly an explosive winger like Scotty or Junior who could make the opposition look like they had their boots tied together.

When we had Seal and Agostino it was Ago who was the popular striker because he did all the running and creating whereas Seal probably got more goals by getting into the right position and waiting.

Gazza's performance in Italia 90 also made football fashionable again in England; lifting it out of the dire state it had been in through the 70s and 80s.

He is an English footballing great by any measure.  Though not, I accept, a world great.

[One Team In Keynsham]

All very much Sliding Doors, but had he gone to United not Spurs in 1988, his career could have been all so different. The discipline of Ferguson, who at that point was dismantling the old-school boozing culture at United, might have better kept him in line.

In my view, he could have been one of England's greatest players of my lifetime, but instead we only had fleeting glimpses of what might have been.

[Oh Louie louie]

Intresting thing is gazzas pass put platt in the spotlight.

He put that goal on a plate for him.

That pass which no other player could have perfected like that, certainly helped platt get a big money move.

I wonder what he thinks of gazza?

 

[myol'man]

46 minutes ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

All very much Sliding Doors, but had he gone to United not Spurs in 1988, his career could have been all so different. The discipline of Ferguson, who at that point was dismantling the old-school boozing culture at United, might have better kept him in line.

In my view, he could have been one of England's greatest players of my lifetime, but instead we only had fleeting glimpses of what might have been.

But then Fergie signed Ralph Milne instead.......the rest is history

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 hours ago, JonDolman said:

For any player to go down as a great, or world class, they have to do it consistently at the very highest level.

Gazza had brilliant potential when playing so well in the old English first division, a standard nowhere near the levels of the very top leagues. English sides were almost always terrible when up against the elite European sides. It wasn't like the standard of today's premier league.

He moved to the very highest level in Italy, and was never great there. Moments of brilliance, sure. We have seen others with the ability do brilliant things with a football on occasions like Le Tissier, it doesn't make them a great. He did have one decent run of form in his time there, but nothing really outstanding.

Obviously after that he took the easy option going to Scotland. Was then very poor at Boro. And actually did quite well very briefly for Everton.

There is a myth that he was brilliant against Germany in the world cup 1990. He was actually pretty poor. Germany did a job on him and he kept giving the ball away.

Piers Morgan compared him with Pele and Marradona. Crazy shout really. And many others said similarly over the top comments on Gazza.

You make some good points - but I was merely disagreeing with your comment that Gazza is the “most overrated player of all time.” 

To me that’s just not true ...

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

I think the lack of love for Platt was that his qualities were to be in the right place at the right time and finishing.  Don't get me wrong these are top qualities but what you love as a fan is creator; someone who can turn a nothing poistion into a successful attack.

This may be a Gazza or Ross Barclay type who from a deep midfield position suddenly sprints around a couple of players and makes a defence-splitting pass or someone like Akinbiyi who picks the ball up deep and runs with it towards goal.  Similarly an explosive winger like Scotty or Junior who could make the opposition look like they had their boots tied together.

When we had Seal and Agostino it was Ago who was the popular striker because he did all the running and creating whereas Seal probably got more goals by getting into the right position and waiting.

Gazza's performance in Italia 90 also made football fashionable again in England; lifting it out of the dire state it had been in through the 70s and 80s.

He is an English footballing great by any measure.  Though not, I accept, a world great.

Strange how Ago was then dropped for Nugent! I know he might have been letting his contract run down, or he'd already agreed a move. But him and Goater surely could have worked. Or have I completely imagined Ago was there when Goater was?

I think 1990 had a huge impact on Gazza's entire rest of his career. The media simply loved him in this country for his charismatic behaviour and of course the tears. And since then it's like the nation has invented a story that Gazza was unbelievably good that night because of their love for him.

The fact that so many say he is just harmless and as daft as a brush shows me that they just want to believe the image they have always had of him. When in fact he's been far from harmless in his behaviour over the years.

And when the papers, pundits and fans on phone ins were all saying how he should be in that 1998 world cup squad when he was playing so badly, that tells me the hype had got a bit ridiculous - imo a clear example of him being overrated. He would have been awful at that World cup, and Hoddle was spot on dropping him.

You make some good points. And maybe he is a great in this country, I'm not sure.

But when I hear comparisons with some of the best players of all time, and even when I hear people saying he is the most gifted player we have ever produced, I really can't agree with people that say that. 

3 hours ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

All very much Sliding Doors, but had he gone to United not Spurs in 1988, his career could have been all so different. The discipline of Ferguson, who at that point was dismantling the old-school boozing culture at United, might have better kept him in line.

In my view, he could have been one of England's greatest players of my lifetime, but instead we only had fleeting glimpses of what might have been.

I have heard many people say this over the years and I don't agree.

Gazza was an addict of alcohol, food and whatever else. I don't believe Fergie could have done anything. Even Fergie could only manage manageable people. And Gazza seemed too out of control. I believe Fergie would have been too much for Gazza too. Gazza seemed to like being a big fish in a small pond and he didn't like to put in the hard work.

Zoff was a strict disciplinarian and he had failed at first to get the best out of Gazza. He did manage to eventually get Gazza into shape, but then Gazza did not like his successors strict fitness regime and left for Rangers.

Gazza then had taken the easy option of playing for the best side in Scotland at a poor level of football compared to Italy.

Maybe he just wanted to play football at a standard where he didn't have to be in perfect condition to still stand out. He had that at Rangers. 

 

 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

You make some good points - but I was merely disagreeing with your comment that Gazza is the “most overrated player of all time.” 

To me that’s just not true ...

 

Maybe I should have just said overrated. Obviously I don't know every player of all time to say such a thing!