rainbow laces to be worn at Leeds

[Never to the dark side]

https://throughitalltogether.sbnation.com/2018/11/22/18107593/morning-leeds-in-for-22-november-leeds-united-to-show-support-for-rainbow-laces-against-bristol-city

[YorkshireSection]

What a great idea.

It'd be nice if we showed our support for Bristols LGBT community in some way, not necessarily tomorrow, but why not wear them too and support the cause alongside Leeds, will do no harm.

[Pezo]

15 minutes ago, YorkshireSection said:

What a great idea.

It'd be nice if we showed our support for Bristols LGBT community in some way, not necessarily tomorrow, but why not wear them too and support the cause alongside Leeds, will do no harm.

General ignorance here - what's the cause?

IMO Identity anything (support, politics ect) is a bad idea, we should be looking to support everyone not just people that identify themselves as a group that needs special treatment.

You say it won't do harm but IMO its provoking a never ending "my identity group is more important and should have special rules/rights/equality of outcomes" type attitude which I believe is dangerous.

[LondonBristolian]

18 minutes ago, Pezo said:

General ignorance here - what's the cause?

IMO Identity anything (support, politics ect) is a bad idea, we should be looking to support everyone not just people that identify themselves as a group that needs special treatment.

You say it won't do harm but IMO its provoking a never ending "my identity group is more important and should have special rules/rights/equality of outcomes" type attitude which I believe is dangerous.

It isn't really provoking that attitude though. All it is doing is saying "we recognise that the lack of openly LGBT footballers and the perceived 'lad' culture of football can mean some LGBT people might feel unwelcome at matches so we want to make sure you know you are welcome to come to games too". The "danger" is we might end up getting some fans coming to our games who aren't currently coming along, which seems like a good thing all in all. 

[...]

33 minutes ago, Pezo said:

General ignorance here - what's the cause?

IMO Identity anything (support, politics ect) is a bad idea, we should be looking to support everyone not just people that identify themselves as a group that needs special treatment.

You say it won't do harm but IMO its provoking a never ending "my identity group is more important and should have special rules/rights/equality of outcomes" type attitude which I believe is dangerous.

Are you saying treat all people as equals?

Regardless of creed, colour, or anything else?

Wish I had thought of that idea!

[Pezo]

13 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

It isn't really provoking that attitude though. All it is doing is saying "we recognise that the lack of openly LGBT footballers and the perceived 'lad' culture of football can mean some LGBT people might feel unwelcome at matches so we want to make sure you know you are welcome to come to games too". The "danger" is we might end up getting some fans coming to our games who aren't currently coming along, which seems like a good thing all in all. 

I don't know why a perceived lad culture would make people feel unwelcome. Everyone is welcome at Ashton Gate IMO not just lads and LGBT people - this is why any specific identity is a poor choice to support. We should support anyone and everyone surely? As a basic example I don't see us wearing pink laces to support women or a kippah day to support the Jewish community or turban day to support Sikhs and Muslims so we are in danger of saying we support and promote LGBT causes above that of women, Jews, Sikhs and Muslims.

[...]

1 minute ago, Pezo said:

I don't know why a perceived lad culture would make people feel unwelcome. Everyone is welcome at Ashton Gate IMO not just lads and LGBT people - this is why any specific identity is a poor choice to support. We should support anyone and everyone surely? As a basic example I don't see us wearing pink laces to support women or a kippah day to support the Jewish community or turban day to support Sikhs and Muslims so we are in danger of saying we support and promote LGBT causes above that of women, Jews, Sikhs and Muslims.

Lee Johnson.

Lee Johnson is not welcome at Ashton Gate.

Apart from him, you are spot on.

[ZiderEyed]

4 minutes ago, Pezo said:

I don't know why a perceived lad culture would make people feel unwelcome. Everyone is welcome at Ashton Gate IMO not just lads and LGBT people - this is why any specific identity is a poor choice to support. We should support anyone and everyone surely? As a basic example I don't see us wearing pink laces to support women or a kippah day to support the Jewish community or turban day to support Sikhs and Muslims so we are in danger of saying we support and promote LGBT causes above that of women, Jews, Sikhs and Muslims.

I think it simply says we welcome those who are LGBT in to the community of fans at AG, nothing about it implies the superiority of LGBT people above Muslims, Sikhs or Jews.

[LondonBristolian]

16 minutes ago, Pezo said:

I don't know why a perceived lad culture would make people feel unwelcome. Everyone is welcome at Ashton Gate IMO not just lads and LGBT people - this is why any specific identity is a poor choice to support. We should support anyone and everyone surely? As a basic example I don't see us wearing pink laces to support women or a kippah day to support the Jewish community or turban day to support Sikhs and Muslims so we are in danger of saying we support and promote LGBT causes above that of women, Jews, Sikhs and Muslims.

I don't think we're in danger of saying that at all. To be honest, I think you are reading a lot into it that isn't really there. FWIW, I'd support any initiative the club did to get more women, Jewish people, Sikhs, Muslims or anyone else to Ashton Gate for the obvious reason that I want us to sell out every home game but I don't really think having a day that particularly welcomes one group of people implies that we don't welcome other groups of people too. It's not a competition. 

[phantom]

51 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

....... some LGBT people might feel unwelcome at matches so we want to make sure you know you are welcome to come to games too". 

Does a football team wearing these laces really say to people that they are now welcome at matches?

[GlastonburyRed]

Maybe we should be having a women's day etc., in addition to rainbow laces and other initiatives. Demonstrates that at AG anyone is welcome and you won't be subject to any form of abuse, intimidation, or hostility that might be meted out by our North Bristol neighbours. 

[phantom]

1 hour ago, Pezo said:

General ignorance here - what's the cause?

IMO Identity anything (support, politics ect) is a bad idea, we should be looking to support everyone not just people that identify themselves as a group that needs special treatment.

You say it won't do harm but IMO its provoking a never ending "my identity group is more important and should have special rules/rights/equality of outcomes" type attitude which I believe is dangerous.

To me all supporters should be welcome and it is a sad thing when a certain group has to be promoted just to feel accepted

Let's be honest there are so many groups of people out there that feel unwelcome there could feasibly be a different set of laces every week

1 minute ago, GlastonburyRed said:

Maybe we should be having a women's day etc

We have in the past

[LondonBristolian]

19 minutes ago, phantom said:

To me all supporters should be welcome and it is a sad thing when a certain group has to be promoted just to feel accepted

Let's be honest there are so many groups of people out there that feel unwelcome there could feasibly be a different set of laces every week

We have in the past

I think we'd agree on that for sure. But the fact it is a sad thing something is considered necessary says a lot about a much wider social issue than football alone. I'd much rather live in a world where it wasn't necessary to take steps to make LGBT people, or any other marginalised group, to feel accepted at a mainstream event. 

23 minutes ago, phantom said:

Does a football team wearing these laces really say to people that they are now welcome at matches?

In and of itself, perhaps not. But it sends a clear message that football teams and football clubs don't want homophobia in their grounds and that has to be a start. 

[RedLionLad]

It's what colour TV was made for

[Davefevs]

51 minutes ago, GlastonburyRed said:

Maybe we should be having a women's day etc., in addition to rainbow laces and other initiatives. Demonstrates that at AG anyone is welcome and you won't be subject to any form of abuse, intimidation, or hostility that might be meted out by our North Bristol neighbours. 

....especially away teams!!!!!

[Maesknoll Red]

1 hour ago, GlastonburyRed said:

Maybe we should be having a women's day etc., in addition to rainbow laces and other initiatives. Demonstrates that at AG anyone is welcome and you won't be subject to any form of abuse, intimidation, or hostility that might be meted out by our North Bristol neighbours. 

Anyone..... I can’t recall the gas ever being welcomed, nor is that likely to change.....

[swanker]

2 hours ago, YorkshireSection said:

What a great idea.

It'd be nice if we showed our support for Bristols LGBT community in some way, not necessarily tomorrow, but why not wear them too and support the cause alongside Leeds, will do no harm.

Problem is, there are some players who I imagine may not want to wear rainbow coloured laces. For example players who are Muslim. What happens if someone wishes not to wear them because of his faith?

[Bar BS3]

Bristol Rovers players will be wearing laces at their next home game. No particular colour, with no particular reference to any specific minority groups. But they are desperate need of anyone feeling welcome to come and watch them, because currently, they obviously don’t. 

[Bar BS3]

11 minutes ago, swanker said:

Problem is, there are some players who I imagine may not want to wear rainbow coloured laces. For example players who are Muslim. What happens if someone wishes not to wear them because of his faith?

Isn’t it Muslims that do wear dresses, more than those of most faiths..?! 

[jj77]

 

2 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

It isn't really provoking that attitude though. All it is doing is saying "we recognise that the lack of openly LGBT footballers and the perceived 'lad' culture of football can mean some LGBT people might feel unwelcome at matches so we want to make sure you know you are welcome to come to games too". The "danger" is we might end up getting some fans coming to our games who aren't currently coming along, which seems like a good thing all in all. 

I'm there to watch the football and what you do with your own genitals is your own business.

I don't need to know.

[RedM]

47 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Anyone..... I can’t recall the gas ever being welcomed, nor is that likely to change.....

Well there are a breed all on their own aren’t they. Only another Gashead could love another Gashead 

[RedM]

We did this rainbow laces thing before, don’t think it was last season maybe the season before? The players wore them and they were given out at the turnstiles. Is this a national thing and we will be doing this at a home match too?

Have we had an influx of people attending from the LGBT groups on the strength of this? I hope we never know.  People should attend football if they want and watch the game. I shouldn’t be able to tell if I’m sat next to a Gay person, a vegetarian, a bible basher or any other group people get lumped into. 

[Pezo]

2 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I don't think we're in danger of saying that at all. To be honest, I think you are reading a lot into it that isn't really there. FWIW, I'd support any initiative the club did to get more women, Jewish people, Sikhs, Muslims or anyone else to Ashton Gate for the obvious reason that I want us to sell out every home game but I don't really think having a day that particularly welcomes one group of people implies that we don't welcome other groups of people too. It's not a competition. 

But we're not telling them they are welcome but we would be telling LGBT that they are welcome so by the expression of putting effort into one identity group we would be elevating them above all other identity groups.

[LondonBristolian]

24 minutes ago, jj77 said:

 

I'm there to watch the football and what you do with your own genitals is your own business.

I don't need to know.

Of course you don't need to know. I'd hope initiatives like this help more LGBT people feel they can attend matches but it's not any of our business who they actually are. Nonetheless, if we're taking steps to attract more LGBT people, and more people in general to matches, that is obviously a good thing in my book. 

[LondonBristolian]

16 minutes ago, Pezo said:

But we're not telling them they are welcome but we would be telling LGBT that they are welcome so by the expression of putting effort into one identity group we would be elevating them above all other identity groups.

We could solve that by telling other groups they were welcome, if we wanted to. But there's not a war between identity groups and focusing on one doesn't mean you are somehow treating them as superior or more important than the others. I'm disabled and I can promise you it has never crossed my mind to think a club promoting LGBT people somehow means they don't care about disabled people. It just makes me think you're welcome at a football match if you don't fit the stereotype of a football fan and, for me as a disabled person, that makes me feel more welcome and not less.

[EnderMB]

2 hours ago, Pezo said:

I don't know why a perceived lad culture would make people feel unwelcome. Everyone is welcome at Ashton Gate IMO not just lads and LGBT people - this is why any specific identity is a poor choice to support. We should support anyone and everyone surely? As a basic example I don't see us wearing pink laces to support women or a kippah day to support the Jewish community or turban day to support Sikhs and Muslims so we are in danger of saying we support and promote LGBT causes above that of women, Jews, Sikhs and Muslims.

You say that, but this BBC article from two years ago that that 8% of fans surveyed said they would stop supporting their team if one of their players came out as gay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/37760114

That's a HUGE number, and it's not right to assume that this doesn't represent views at Ashton Gate. I would fully support a Bristol City coming out as gay, and would probably support them more. The same goes for a large number of people on here, who would defend that player for the rest of their career in football, but that 8% would be so hateful that they'd stop supporting us because they're not into women.

[Pezo]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

We could solve that by telling them they were welcome, if we wanted to. But there's not a war between identity groups and focusing on one doesn't mean you are somehow treating them as superior or more important than the others. I'm disabled and I can promise you it has never crossed my mind to think a club promoting LGBT people somehow means they don't care about disabled people. It just makes me think you're welcome at a football match if you don't fit the stereotype of a football fan and, for me as a disabled person, that makes me feel more welcome and not less.

The club puts a massive effort into making disabled fans feel welcome but thats to do with enablement. 

What is the stereotype of a football fan because I see a general cross section of society at football and as should be expected minoritys are in the minority but they are still represented as football fans.

[One Team In Keynsham]

2 hours ago, GlastonburyRed said:

Maybe we should be having a women's day etc., in addition to rainbow laces and other initiatives. Demonstrates that at AG anyone is welcome and you won't be subject to any form of abuse, intimidation, or hostility that might be meted out by our North Bristol neighbours. 

What is the commonly accepted colour of laces to support equine equality?

[Pezo]

7 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

You say that, but this BBC article from two years ago that that 8% of fans surveyed said they would stop supporting their team if one of their players came out as gay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/37760114

That's a HUGE number, and it's not right to assume that this doesn't represent views at Ashton Gate. I would fully support a Bristol City coming out as gay, and would probably support them more. The same goes for a large number of people on here, who would defend that player for the rest of their career in football, but that 8% would be so hateful that they'd stop supporting us because they're not into women.

I don't understand your point - do you want these 8% to leave, do you want to change them or do you want the club to try and change them.

[LondonBristolian]

16 minutes ago, Pezo said:

The club puts a massive effort into making disabled fans feel welcome but thats to do with enablement. 

What is the stereotype of a football fan because I see a general cross section of society at football and as should be expected minoritys are in the minority but they are still represented as football fans.

Indeed. But you only see that cross section if you go to matches and, if some people don't go to matches because they think they will have a bad experience, then it is helpful to do things that show that all supporters are welcome at a club. I'm a bit surprised you don't know what the stereotype of a football fan is but sadly a lot of people see things like that video of England fans in Amsterdam a few months ago and think that somehow represents a typical football fan.

Literally all this is is an exercise to get some supporters to go to matches who might not otherwise go, and to make sure the LGBT fans do go feel welcome and feel they will be listened to if they need to report homophobic abuse. I absolutely get why a lot of fans who are not LGBT will not feel that particularly applies to them, or think it isn't necessary, but I really can't see any logical argument for being against the club doing it.