rainbow laces to be worn at Leeds

[LondonBristolian]

8 minutes ago, Pezo said:

I don't understand your point - do you want these 8% to leave, do you want to change them or do you want the club to try and change them.

I don't want to answer for @EnderMB but personally I want football clubs to make it very clear publicly that they don't want homophobia at their grounds and for those 8% of fans to be aware that they do not speak for the rest of us. It's ultimately up to them whether or not they change their views but I would like them to be able to respect all other fans and players - regardless of sexuality - enough to continue supporting the club and to not attempt to make LGBT players or supporters feel unwelcome. 

[Pezo]

5 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Indeed. But you only see that cross section if you go to matches and, if some people don't go to matches because they think they will have a bad experience, then it is helpful to do things that show that all supporters are welcome at a club. I'm a bit surprised you don't know what the stereotype of a football fan is but sadly a lot of people see things like that video of England fans in Amsterdam a few months ago and think that somehow represents a typical football fan.

Literally all this is is an exercise to get some supporters to go to matches who might not otherwise go, and to make sure the LGBT fans do go feel welcome and feel they will be listened to if they need to report homophobic abuse. I absolutely get why a lot of fans who are not LGBT will not feel that particularly applies to them, or think it isn't necessary, but I really can't see any logical argument for being against the club doing it. 

How do we know there aren't hundreds of LGBT people that attend already? Surely the ones that want to come already come and have broken that understanding of the stereotypes.

I don't know anyone that doesn't know anyone that goes to football and just thinks oh they seem welcoming I think I'm going to like watching football and just turns up, most people go to their first game with either friends or family who they trust and feel safe with, this is the same for anyone that identifies with a particular identity group or not and some stereotype could easily be quashed by the friend or family if it was a concern.

Lets face it no one outside of football will hear about the rainbow laces thing anyway.

[YorkshireSection]

10 hours ago, Pezo said:

General ignorance here - what's the cause?

IMO Identity anything (support, politics ect) is a bad idea, we should be looking to support everyone not just people that identify themselves as a group that needs special treatment.

You say it won't do harm but IMO its provoking a never ending "my identity group is more important and should have special rules/rights/equality of outcomes" type attitude which I believe is dangerous.

I think you've gone a little wild here.

The cause isn't literal, I'm talking about humanity and humility.

If there was a cause it's would be acknowledgement that the society can be shitty and far from perfect, but our meagre show of suppprt may just help one single person to overcome what I'd imagine would be at times; crapy, bigoted hurdles.

This is a PC minefield and I'm not stepping any further in; cock, pussy, man, woman, whatever colour, race, sexual orientation (yes, including hetros) our laces and football club salute you.

I'm out of here.

[freezer]

I've skipped a lot of posts here, so please excuse my ignorance or if I've missed something.

This whole 'Rainbow' thing.

The word 'gay' has now been lost from the general understanding of its usage. Shame that.

Does this now include 'Rainbow', whether in terminology or in a visual fashion? I see many rainbow coloured things in schools, clothing (both young and adult), advertising etc.

I'm a bit confused. Is rainbow now LGBT or is it just a colourful thing that is a rainbow?

 

[reddoh]

11 hours ago, ... said:

Lee Johnson.

Lee Johnson is not welcome at Ashton Gate.

Apart from him, you are spot on.

I think that's managerist. 

[RumRed]

39 minutes ago, freezer said:

I've skipped a lot of posts here, so please excuse my ignorance or if I've missed something.

This whole 'Rainbow' thing.

The word 'gay' has now been lost from the general understanding of its usage. Shame that.

Does this now include 'Rainbow', whether in terminology or in a visual fashion? I see many rainbow coloured things in schools, clothing (both young and adult), advertising etc.

I'm a bit confused. Is rainbow now LGBT or is it just a colourful thing that is a rainbow?

 

The Rainbow emblem has been used since ‘78 as a symbol for the LGBT community as it’s ‘diverse’, originated from San Francisco. It was designed though.

40 years old so not a particularly new thing.  

Think created after the Harvey Milk assassination. (Maybe wrong on that point)

[The Constant Rabbit]

As my gay son ALWAYS  says.....

"Great. Another idea to make us 'the same' by doing something that makes us appear different."

[Judda]

I think a lot of people are missing a very obvious point. I hear homophobic people's comments in the crowd quite frequently and can remember various chants when Brighton have visited. 

Just like you used to hear racist comments every week (unfortunately still the odd prat on occasion)

I think raising awareness and welcoming more LGBT to Ashton Gate is a good thing so why the confusion? Doesn't seem to happen with the kick racism out of football campaign. 

[One Team]

9 hours ago, SX227 said:

As my gay son ALWAYS  says.....

"Great. Another idea to make us 'the same' by doing something that makes us appear different."

A superb quote.

So many people these days seem to get offended on other people’s behalf.

Rainbow laces seems to be supported by Stonewall though so it’s got the LGBT communities support?

 

 

[One Team]

1 hour ago, Judda said:

I think a lot of people are missing a very obvious point. I hear homophobic people's comments in the crowd quite frequently and can remember various chants when Brighton have visited. 

Just like you used to hear racist comments every week (unfortunately still the odd prat on occasion)

I think raising awareness and welcoming more LGBT to Ashton Gate is a good thing so why the confusion? Doesn't seem to happen with the kick racism out of football campaign. 

You make some valid points but for me it should be about welcoming everyone to Ashton Gate regardless of age, religion, sex, sexuality, politics, disability etc etc.

Whatever your personal views on anything once you go through the turnstiles everyone is red and white. 

[Judda]

21 minutes ago, One Team said:

You make some valid points but for me it should be about welcoming everyone to Ashton Gate regardless of age, religion, sex, sexuality, politics, disability etc etc.

Whatever your personal views on anything once you go through the turnstiles everyone is red and white. 

Absolutely true. Unfortunately some groups have not been made welcome in the past. I think it's just a small gesture to right those wrongs.

[Bristol Rob]

22 hours ago, RedM said:

I shouldn’t be able to tell if I’m sat next to a Gay person, a vegetarian, a bible basher or any other group people get lumped into. 

^ Never say next to a vegan.

As for Rainbow laces, I think it's great that the football community are recognising the contribution Geoffrey made to kids telly before he died.

[Bar BS3]

22 hours ago, RedM said:

We did this rainbow laces thing before, don’t think it was last season maybe the season before? The players wore them and they were given out at the turnstiles. Is this a national thing and we will be doing this at a home match too?

Have we had an influx of people attending from the LGBT groups on the strength of this? I hope we never know.  People should attend football if they want and watch the game. I shouldn’t be able to tell if I’m sat next to a Gay person, a vegetarian, a bible basher or any other group people get lumped into. 

That’s a good point. 

How are we (or anyone) to know that 30% of the crowd on a matchday don’t go home and dress up in their Mrs underwear or snuggle up on the sofa next to their same sex partner..?

Who is making the assumption that those who do that, would not feel comfortable doing it after having been to watch their local football team..? 

[LondonBristolian]

4 hours ago, One Team said:

A superb quote.

So many people these days seem to get offended on other people’s behalf.

Rainbow laces seems to be supported by Stonewall though so it’s got the LGBT communities support?

 

 

I think people often forget the LGBT community are a wide range of people. Some will support it and some will not, which is fine.

I get the point about being offended but I am not so sure it is a new thing. For sure, people get way more offended by someone not wearing a poppy on tv or on a football pitch than they did ten or fifteen years ago, and there are maybe some people who got offended by footballers wearing bright multi-coloured laces but don’t forget the seventies had the likes of Mary Whitehouse getting offended about the mildest sexual content on television. And, not so long ago, people got so offended by two people of the same sex kissing that they would kick them out of public places and so offended by the idea of sharing a restaurant or a hotel with a black person that were rules around segregation. Yes, people still get offended but, when people say we get more so these days, I think they forget just how offended people used to get.

[Guest]

Personally I want to go and just watch football and do not need to feel part of some other "group" or promote it, if that group want to turn up that is up to them. 

If I was a player I wouldn't wear them as don't agree with it myself. Then someone (probably plenty) somewhere will be offended by it, and probably label it a hate crime and the Police will want to interview me and would make headline news..... Next week we can try and promote the gender fluid non binary group, and there are that many 'identities' now that we can promote something different for the next 5 seasons...

It is all getting ridiculous imo

[Guest]

It really isn't getting ridiculous 

So roughly, there are around 9million Lgbt people in the UK, or around 15 percent of the population ish.

That's not insignificant and on the main unless you are very sure or very hidden then Lgbt are generally conspicuous by their absence from sporting fixtures 

The main reasons for that include large crowds. Alcohol and a chance to be abused, en mass. So many dont go, simply out of fear.

In terms of players, look at what happened to Justin Fashanu to see what 'reaction' is like,  heck look at what happened to Gareth Thomas last week or when he came out.

There is or was a trans player for American Samoa, iirc, but it's still few and far between.

Any club @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO that starts and Lgbt supporters club,  would probably be pioneering and that could see more openess and more of the pink pound. Especially if fans knew they could be safe.

 

 

[Guest]

So no lgbt people go to football because they fear of being abused, yet some colourful laces will suddenly make a lot them start going? 

It seems ok to abuse players with nasty songs, and managers mothers being called ladies of the night? Singing you fat b....... to a slightly larger player or even pick one out the crowd, but that is all fine. But don't say anything about the lgbt community because they are something more special than anything and deserve to have days dedicated to them and events etc. 

Why not wear something like a pasty logo to make the larger person feel more appreciated and welcome?

If someone chooses to be lgbt or whatever of the 100 genders available nowadays that is their choice, but I don't see why everyone has to be so accommodating myself at what seems to be every single event, tv show, films etc. Yet anyone who disagrees with anything nowadays seems to get labelled a Nazi, Racist, Bigot etc etc, and me personally is just fed up with it.

[Eddie Hitler]

22 minutes ago, wood_red said:

So no lgbt people go to football because they fear of being abused, yet some colourful laces will suddenly make a lot them start going? 

It seems ok to abuse players with nasty songs, and managers mothers being called ladies of the night? Singing you fat b....... to a slightly larger player or even pick one out the crowd, but that is all fine. But don't say anything about the lgbt community because they are something more special than anything and deserve to have days dedicated to them and events etc. 

Why not wear something like a pasty logo to make the larger person feel more appreciated and welcome?

If someone chooses to be lgbt or whatever of the 100 genders available nowadays that is their choice, but I don't see why everyone has to be so accommodating myself at what seems to be every single event, tv show, films etc. Yet anyone who disagrees with anything nowadays seems to get labelled a Nazi, Racist, Bigot etc etc, and me personally is just fed up with it.

As @Pezo said it is identity politics.

Everyone is a special and unique individual but if you can identify with some favoured grouping then you become more special and unique then everyone else.

Hell you may even get a grant for it.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, wood_red said:

So no lgbt people go to football because they fear of being abused, yet some colourful laces will suddenly make a lot them start going? 

It seems ok to abuse players with nasty songs, and managers mothers being called ladies of the night? Singing you fat b....... to a slightly larger player or even pick one out the crowd, but that is all fine. But don't say anything about the lgbt community because they are something more special than anything and deserve to have days dedicated to them and events etc. 

Why not wear something like a pasty logo to make the larger person feel more appreciated and welcome?

If someone chooses to be lgbt or whatever of the 100 genders available nowadays that is their choice, but I don't see why everyone has to be so accommodating myself at what seems to be every single event, tv show, films etc. Yet anyone who disagrees with anything nowadays seems to get labelled a Nazi, Racist, Bigot etc etc, and me personally is just fed up with it.

And in a nutshell this is why people get scared, because of comments or posts like that that asks 'why should I change' 

Well mainly,to stop being someone without humanity, or you know, being homophobic transphobic and the rest as the post clearly demonstrates

You'd do well to look at Pride, the rainbow flag, Stonewall Riots, the pink triangle, section 28, the rise in violence and attacks against Lgbt people since the Brexit vote and then quite happy have that discussion

[CyderInACan]

How on earth can this be a bad thing!? Have a little word with yourself. 

[Guest]

Why should I have to change my view on what I think is correct and what I believe in - why don't you change your view? I also have never abused anyone because of their colour, sexual preference or what they like or dislike. That is their choice, but it doesn't mean everyone should have to agree with them.The issue is if anyone disagrees with anyone nowadays they automatically get labelled, when it is just a persons view. And in my opinion all this gender stuff is ridiculous, in your view it isn't - that doesn't mean you are right though.

Calling me homophobic basically backs up my point!

[Dorset_Cider]

The world has gone mad........................

 

[Eddie Hitler]

It's also a bit of a hijacking.

People have worn rainbow laces, t shirts, scarves or jumpers for years purely because it's a bit of fun colour.

Now they are the official symbol of a movement and they have been appropriated to represent that rather than just being a bit wacky as they used to be.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, wood_red said:

Why should I have to change my view on what I think is correct and what I believe in - why don't you change your view? I also have never abused anyone because of their colour, sexual preference or what they like or dislike. That is their choice, but it doesn't mean everyone should have to agree with them.The issue is if anyone disagrees with anyone nowadays they automatically get labelled, when it is just a persons view. And in my opinion all this gender stuff is ridiculous, in your view it isn't - that doesn't mean you are right though.

Calling me homophobic basically backs up my point!

I see

My views pretty set, equal rights for all people irrespective of sexuality and gender. This means same protections same chances, same rights that everyone else has and treatment as equals not to be 'tolerated'.

It's a shame that your post doesnt want to have anything to do with that and would rather double down on bigotry or hate of that which is other.

It's not 'choice' nor personal preference, lgbt are born with it. It's hardwired and been proven multiple times over.

Disagreeing with their right to be, is by very definition homophobic or transphobic as you are denying them the same rights as afforded to yourself.

It's not 'ridiculous' either. As mentioned in my previous post, look at what's been mentioned find out how that affects people and stop being close minded.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

It's also a bit of a hijacking.

People have worn rainbow laces, t shirts, scarves or jumpers for years purely because it's a bit of fun colour.

Now they are the official symbol of a movement and they have been appropriated to represent that rather than just being a bit wacky as they used to be.

It's not hijacking Eddie. Please try trolling again elsewhere. 

Depressing thought that an improving lgbt in football thread is tainted by ignorance and bigotry.

 

[Eddie Hitler]

1 minute ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

It's not hijacking Eddie. Please try trolling again elsewhere. 

Depressing thought that an improving lgbt in football thread is tainted by ignorance and bigotry.

 

Wilco.

I work with a transitioning MtF.

I got on with and chatted to him before I was aware of what he was intending and continue to chat with him as he wears women's clothes and fake breasts; I think he's off for the surgery next year.

I am friendly as I always am but have specifically not discussed the subject because he believes that surgery will complete his transition to being a woman and I think he will be a man who's had some plastic surgery done.  I don't wish to upset him so I avoid the subject.

That we think differently does not prevent our getting on.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Wilco.

I work with a transitioning MtF.

I got on with and chatted to him before I was aware of what he was intending and continue to chat with him as he wears women's clothes and fake breasts; I think he's off for the surgery next year.

I am friendly as I always am but have specifically not discussed the subject because he believes that surgery will complete his transition to being a woman and I think he will be a man who's had some plastic surgery done.  I don't wish to upset him so I avoid the subject.

That we think differently does not prevent our getting on.

That you have misgendered 'her' and then remain transphobic through the rest of your post speaks volumes

It's exactly that why lgbt people dont come to games in bigger numbers and why players will live in the closet.

Your 'different' is bigotted, in bad taste, demeans another human and puts them on a level below you.

Shame but that's why.

[Eddie Hitler]

1 minute ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

That you have misgendered 'her' and then remain transphobic through the rest of your post speaks volumes

It's exactly that why lgbt people dont come to games in bigger numbers and why players will live in the closet.

Your 'different' is bigotted, in bad taste, demeans another human and puts them on a level below you.

Shame but that's why.

How am I transphobic when I am as pleasant to him now (both to him and about him) as I was previously?

That's a very unusual form of discrimination - being nice to people.

[Up The City!]

On 23/11/2018 at 10:37, Pezo said:

General ignorance here - what's the cause?

IMO Identity anything (support, politics ect) is a bad idea, we should be looking to support everyone not just people that identify themselves as a group that needs special treatment.

You say it won't do harm but IMO its provoking a never ending "my identity group is more important and should have special rules/rights/equality of outcomes" type attitude which I believe is dangerous.

Exactly! If we're going to do it for that group then it needs to be done for all type of different groups. 

Just keep it all out of football.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

How am I transphobic when I am as pleasant to him now (both to him and about him) as I was previously?

That's a very unusual form of discrimination - being nice to people.

https://www.healthline.com/health/transgender/misgendering#why-it-happens

 

You're also breaking the Equalities Act 2010.

 

But hey, you carry on with misgendering someone.  It totally undermines them, who they are and what they go through.