What will it realistically take for LJ to get sacked?

[Alex_BCFC]

Lose to Ipswich and Millwall and he will be in big trouble. A lot of people on the fence will start to turn at that point I think and I don't think another 8 game losing run is acceptable.

[Superjack]

2 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

Lose to Ipswich and Millwall and he will be in big trouble. A lot of people on the fence will start to turn at that point I think and I don't think another 8 game losing run is acceptable.

I think you would be surprised... 

[Curr Avon]

On 24/11/2018 at 16:47, Unan said:

As per title 

Is it...a letter from HR?

[Bar BS3]

2 hours ago, Lew-T said:

Where have you been this year?

Johnson’s 2018 record (all competitions).

LLLLDLWLDDDLWLDWDLLWLDDLDDLLWWWLLDDLWWLLLL

Played: 42. Won: 9  Drawn: 12  Lost:  21 

That’s not right though, is it..? Didn’t we win 4 games on the trot 12 games ago..? 

Doesnt make a vast difference, granted. But maybe check your stats. 

[Swede]

Tin hat on; I do believe he's a good coach. He's only fronting the club's management policy and long term strategy on the pitch.

To get rid of him you might as well get rid of the rest of the coaching set up and Mark Ashton as well, as they would all be culpable.

I have a different perspective in that we've lost three cornerstones of the team who would have been coveted by all teams in this league and beyond. 

That's bound to have an effect this season whilst he looks for a way in overcoming the predicament, and before people jump down my throat with ridicule, they have been replaced with good players but one could argue, not in the same bracket.

I venture Flint, Bryan & Reid would walk into many teams but maybe not Webster, Dasilva & Weimann.

Unless you have a crystal ball how on earth could you contemplate Weimann not scoring for the last few months.

We were never going to pay £10M + for a player yet realistically that's what was needed to replace Bobby Reid to get a 20+ goal striker and don't forget we've lost 30+ goals with those three players.

We are paying the price for a recruitment policy (which LJ, JM & DH are a part of) that includes MA, the directors and the major shareholder of developing talent and buying reletively cheaply and selling for big bucks

Its a very fine line because the instant demands of the modern game to be successful now, don't necessarily go hand in hand with our club's long term strategy.

I am genuinely concerned that we have lost our identity and lost our way. I am really concerned that the strikers are in the team by default as none of them are performing.

As much as it's easy to vilify LJ, I blame the club's recruiting policy for where we are.

It is true that we should be getting more out of our players and that is a criticism of the coaching staff but I really do think the problem lies deeper within the club.

 

[WhistleHappy]

Take to get to get LJ sacked? 

 a junior school sports day, between The Egg and Spoon & Three Legged Races ?  

[Bar BS3]

11 hours ago, KeepUpLino said:

1 win he keeps his job? ...And then what another ******* Johnson run? Give it a rest please... He must go!!

The trouble is.. you and other posters like you, who are constantly negative, in the extreme, or fall quiet during periods when we are doing well, discredit themselves and I’m sure it makes the more supportive of us a little bit stubborn in changing our minds.

I’m concerned that we appear to be heading directly into another hoffific losing run (if we lose our next 2) 

Kind of like when you stand by a friend or family member who has messed up, I think the anti LJ brigade, who don’t balance their views when we are doing well, make the rest of us try to be even more supportive, if that makes sense. 

If i’m To change my stance on wanting LJ to stay our manager, then it will be based on my balanced, reasoned view of where things are and certainly not because a vocal minority keep shouting it louder and louder and revel in the periods of struggle, just to back up their vendeta which exists however well, or badly we are doing. 

 

[ZiderEyed]

7 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

The trouble is.. you and other posters like you, who are constantly negative, in the extreme, or fall quiet during periods when we are doing well, discredit themselves and I’m sure it makes the more supportive of us a little bit stubborn in changing our minds.

I’m concerned that we appear to be heading directly into another hoffific losing run (if we lose our next 2) 

Kind of like when you stand by a friend or family member who has messed up, I think the anti LJ brigade, who don’t balance their views when we are doing well, make the rest of us try to be even more supportive, if that makes sense. 

If i’m To change my stance on wanting LJ to stay our manager, then it will be based on my balanced, reasoned view of where things are and certainly not because a vocal minority keep shouting it louder and louder and revel in the periods of struggle, just to back up their vendeta which exists however well, or badly we are doing. 

 

The irony is though that there's a very small amount of people who will back LJ to the hilt no matter what, and an equally small amount of people who have always, from the start, wanted him gone no matter what he achieved.

The best bit is that neither side can see that they're a minority and they have this siege mentality as they perceive the other side to be more populous than theirs.

Consequently each side gets louder because they feel like victims.

And then you get the good 80-85-90% of people who make their judgements based on sound and reasoned logic, getting called happy clappers or doom-mongers.

[KeepUpLino]

15 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

The trouble is.. you and other posters like you, who are constantly negative, in the extreme, or fall quiet during periods when we are doing well, discredit themselves and I’m sure it makes the more supportive of us a little bit stubborn in changing our minds.

I’m concerned that we appear to be heading directly into another hoffific losing run (if we lose our next 2) 

Kind of like when you stand by a friend or family member who has messed up, I think the anti LJ brigade, who don’t balance their views when we are doing well, make the rest of us try to be even more supportive, if that makes sense. 

If i’m To change my stance on wanting LJ to stay our manager, then it will be based on my balanced, reasoned view of where things are and certainly not because a vocal minority keep shouting it louder and louder and revel in the periods of struggle, just to back up their vendeta which exists however well, or badly we are doing. 

 

There no vendetta I promise you...

 What you forget BS3 is that when things are generally going well in any form, sport, business the list goes on you will generally not hear anything when all is shipshape, on the other hand when things are not good people feel the need to speak out!!

Your shouting in protest to the so called vendetta gang is only harming our club, LJ is out of his depth I’m afraid.

 

[Lew-T]

9 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

That’s not right though, is it..? Didn’t we win 4 games on the trot 12 games ago..? 

Doesnt make a vast difference, granted. But maybe check your stats. 

Correct.

It’s been a poor year though. I would have a bit sympathy for LJ if the performances were there from parts of last season but it’s been a slow downward spiral for a while now.

Couple last minute winners here and there won’t be enough unfortunately. 

I’ll give him until Sunday for certainty, as I’m not completely in the LJ out camp just yet.

[Bar BS3]

16 minutes ago, KeepUpLino said:

Your shouting in protest to the so called vendetta gang is only harming our club, LJ is out of his depth I’m afraid.

 

But it’s ststements like these that don’t carry any weight. 

This is the first week in the last 18 months that we have been nearer the relegation zone than the top 6. 

How can someone who’s out of their depth have that stat under their belt..? 

Infact, of the near 3 years that LJ has been here, how many times have we found ourselves sat in the relegation zone..? A prerequisite standard for someone who’s “out of his depth” surely..?! 

[LondonBristolian]

On 24/11/2018 at 17:25, harrys said:

I cannot believe that he keeps playing woefully out of form players (Eliason, Weimann, Pack) 

My issue isn't so much him picking woefully out of form players as the regularity with which players become woefully out of form.

I think we've done a lot of good things at the club over the last three years and Lee Johnson  obviously has to take his share of credit for that. I also think we have a decent squad that are not showing what they can do on a consistent basis and that consistency HAS to be the key. I think LJ could go onto to be a good manager if he ever learns how to get players playing well on a regular basis. But he hasn't done it yet and shows no signs of doing so now. I don't mind gradual progress and I don't mind the odd step back but, when players are not doing week-in and week-out what we know they can do at their best, that has to be on the manger's head. And the manager's head has to be on the chopping block. It's a shame as I am sure he loves the club and I want him to succeed but we need to make a change. 

That said, I don't believe LJ is untouchable. I think he will get December to turn it round but, if not, he'll be gone by mid-January.

[Major Isewater]

On 24/11/2018 at 21:06, Taz said:

I'd take Coco The Clown right now...

He's already at the Gas so that's a no go .

[Major Isewater]

10 hours ago, Swede said:

Tin hat on; I do believe he's a good coach. He's only fronting the club's management policy and long term strategy on the pitch.

To get rid of him you might as well get rid of the rest of the coaching set up and Mark Ashton as well, as they would all be culpable.

I have a different perspective in that we've lost three cornerstones of the team who would have been coveted by all teams in this league and beyond. 

That's bound to have an effect this season whilst he looks for a way in overcoming the predicament, and before people jump down my throat with ridicule, they have been replaced with good players but one could argue, not in the same bracket.

I venture Flint, Bryan & Reid would walk into many teams but maybe not Webster, Dasilva & Weimann.

Unless you have a crystal ball how on earth could you contemplate Weimann not scoring for the last few months.

We were never going to pay £10M + for a player yet realistically that's what was needed to replace Bobby Reid to get a 20+ goal striker and don't forget we've lost 30+ goals with those three players.

We are paying the price for a recruitment policy (which LJ, JM & DH are a part of) that includes MA, the directors and the major shareholder of developing talent and buying reletively cheaply and selling for big bucks

Its a very fine line because the instant demands of the modern game to be successful now, don't necessarily go hand in hand with our club's long term strategy.

I am genuinely concerned that we have lost our identity and lost our way. I am really concerned that the strikers are in the team by default as none of them are performing.

As much as it's easy to vilify LJ, I blame the club's recruiting policy for where we are.

It is true that we should be getting more out of our players and that is a criticism of the coaching staff but I really do think the problem lies deeper within the club.

 

Good coaches can get the most out of their players , do you honestly believe that LJ has got the best out of the talent at his disposal ? 

I don't. 

Worse ,many  players have gone backwards  under his coaching. 

 

[KeepUpLino]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

But it’s ststements like these that don’t carry any weight. 

This is the first week in the last 18 months that we have been nearer the relegation zone than the top 6. 

How can someone who’s out of their depth have that stat under their belt..? 

Infact, of the near 3 years that LJ has been here, how many times have we found ourselves sat in the relegation zone..? A prerequisite standard for someone who’s “out of his depth” surely..?! 

What about the standard of the football though, I honestly can’t bear to watch it, even my kids hate going now? How do you explain this?

[Bristol Oil Services]

At Oldham, he caught the eye because 1. of his youth, and 2. taking them from a perilous position to a position of midtable comfort, with little resource to play with. Conclusion = better than expected. 

At Barnsley, it was a mixed bag but he left them 12th in L1having won 6 league games on the bounce, and they went on to nick into the play offs and win promotion. Conclusion = mixed; contestable. I think Barnsley expect better than 12th in L1, and we cannot know what would've happened if he had stayed there until the end of the season. 

At Bristol City, he has pretty much delivered what might be expected given the resources here relative to his competitors (not to previous City managers). Kept us up, then delivered 17th, then 11th. About where we are for wages spent (I think). A league cup semi is a feather in his cap, as was Bobby Reid. He has also adhered to the policy set out by his employers, unlike his predecessor. 

His problem might be in this job that his employer wants to "get in the top six and vie for promotion at the end of the (this) season." His employer wants more than what might reasonably be expected, if we are to take SL at his word, or words. At some point, to reach the PL, SL needs someone to deliver more, way more, than might reasonably be expected, given our resources and competition  (clubs with parachute payments etc).

Can Lee Johnson deliver a whole greater than the sum of the parts? Can he work a minor miracle? On the evidence so far, he can do a bang average job at this level - which is ok - but not the wizardry SL needs to realise his PL aspiration. 

It will be three years next February and SL should have had enough time by then to assess  LJ close up, in situ, and be fairly sure whether the reality matches up to the fantasy he, JL and MA had when they appointed him in 2016. It should be clear enough by then for SL to decide whether with LJ it will be progress, stagnation, or worse.

Set against all this is that SL also said in May that LJ is "here for the long term" and the lengths he went to to back LJ and stick two fingers up to the "haters" and bedsheet wetters and hangers in 2017. Anyone who thinks this is bad now has a short memory (Rotherham, Reading at home, Preston and Forest away 2017?) And, also, the "trust" that exists between SL and LJ, whoever he turns to next, the trust will not be the same (it's 110% now) after LJ. And finally, there is the question of being "right" and "I told you so," which we are all susceptible to on here, and even billionaires are, too. 

 

So, in conclusion, what will it realistically take for SL to move LJ on/out/aside? I really don't know. 

[Bar BS3]

58 minutes ago, KeepUpLino said:

What about the standard of the football though, I honestly can’t bear to watch it, even my kids hate going now? How do you explain this?

For me that is something else that fluctuates (probably too much)

I like the way we play, when we are playing well, but agree than when it’s not going well it can be dull and look clueless. 

[Swede]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Good coaches can get the most out of their players , do you honestly believe that LJ has got the best out of the talent at his disposal ? 

I don't. 

Worse ,many  players have gone backwards  under his coaching. 

 

That's a bit of a sweeping statement to make! But you are entitled to your opinion.

I think he does, in the main, as he turned Reid into a Premier League striker for example.

I think Brownhill's a better player as is Matty Taylor. Marlon Pack most definitely. Tammy Abraham benefitted very well under his coaching methods.

There are others that didn't benefit, Richard O'Donnell being one and the enigma that is Jens Hegeler. But for all of the names I mentioned there could be other explanations as to why they were or were not a success.  

Where he does struggle is when he is under pressure [as I think he is now].

I think the recruitment policy is where the real problem lies.

IMO LJ needs to build his team around the more aggressive players in his squad at the moment such as Baker, Watkins [Taylor when fit] and Walsh and not rely too much on Eliasson & Pato who will not dictate the game to the opposition.

[BigTone]

I actually think his demise may be closer than we all think if things continue the way they are.  

[Major Isewater]

42 minutes ago, BigTone said:

I actually think his demise may be closer than we all think if things continue the way they are.  

What makes you say that ? 

[TV Tom]

56 minutes ago, BigTone said:

I actually think his demise may be closer than we all think if things continue the way they are.  

I agree, if we lose at Ipswich (haven’t won at home all season) then lose to Millwall I think he’ll be toast

[Alessandro]

1 hour ago, BigTone said:

I actually think his demise may be closer than we all think if things continue the way they are.  

 

25 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

What makes you say that ? 

 

10 minutes ago, harrys said:

I agree, if we lose at Ipswich (haven’t won at home all season) then lose to Millwall I think he’ll be toast

I think the atmosphere at the gate will be beyond ugly if we lose to Ipswich and then Millwall.

SL can't ignore the crowd easily and surely LJ cannot survive another run of consecutive defeats. 

[BigTone]

29 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

What makes you say that ? 

Just a feeling in my water Your Highness and no other reason.  SL has been very loyal but he ain't daft either.

[ZiderEyed]

17 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

 

 

I think the atmosphere at the gate will be beyond ugly if we lose to Ipswich and then Millwall.

SL can't ignore the crowd easily and surely LJ cannot survive another run of consecutive defeats. 

It'll easily be as toxic as I can remember. Proper poisonous. 

[luke4d89]

Sorry just trying to gauge what it is we expect.

We sold our 3 best players of last season losing half the goals we scored last year.

We have already had some outstanding results this season beating Swansea, Brentford and Sheffield United and have been competitive in every game we have played.

Plus we are where we should be realistically in the table. I think people should take a long hard look at Ipswich im happy to stay in the Championship and push for the Play Offs when we can. Which is where our club is im afraid.

Funny i remember posting this about the last Johnson who got sacked because of a few over expectant idiots on here causing unrest if the next fall is anything like that i may give up watching im done with league one i have not the money or time to waste.  

[phantom]

20 minutes ago, luke4d89 said:

We have already had some outstanding results this season beating Swansea, Brentford and Sheffield United and have been competitive in every game we have played.

So three results out of the season is acceptable?

I would certainly disagree about being competitive in EVERY game this season

Just look at our form for 2019 (when those 3 players were still here) - it is RELEGATION form

[Natchfever]

50 minutes ago, luke4d89 said:

Sorry just trying to gauge what it is we expect.

We sold our 3 best players of last season losing half the goals we scored last year.

We have already had some outstanding results this season beating Swansea, Brentford and Sheffield United and have been competitive in every game we have played.

Plus we are where we should be realistically in the table. I think people should take a long hard look at Ipswich im happy to stay in the Championship and push for the Play Offs when we can. Which is where our club is im afraid.

Funny i remember posting this about the last Johnson who got sacked because of a few over expectant idiots on here causing unrest if the next fall is anything like that i may give up watching im done with league one i have not the money or time to waste.  

Are you ******* serious ?

[glen humphries]

1 hour ago, luke4d89 said:

Sorry just trying to gauge what it is we expect.

We sold our 3 best players of last season losing half the goals we scored last year.

We have already had some outstanding results this season beating Swansea, Brentford and Sheffield United and have been competitive in every game we have played.

Plus we are where we should be realistically in the table. I think people should take a long hard look at Ipswich im happy to stay in the Championship and push for the Play Offs when we can. Which is where our club is im afraid.

Funny i remember posting this about the last Johnson who got sacked because of a few over expectant idiots on here causing unrest if the next fall is anything like that i may give up watching im done with league one i have not the money or time to waste.  

Those 3 players were playing since Christmas last season and we were crap then , the Johnson brigade are running out of excuses rapidly.

[steviestevieneville]

On 25/11/2018 at 14:53, Shtanley said:

If we finish 14th (where we are now) surely that’s not enough to warrant a sacking? 

 

It’s not just about league position though is it . Can you honestly say that LJ is learning/ progressing as a manager ? Imo , no he isn’t . He keeps making the same mistakes. I’ve said it time and again in here. Good managers have a philosophy , a way of playing and sticks to it. He changes like the wind after a few defeats and seems to panic. I’d have no confidence in the bloke If I played for him. Some seem so blinded that because we’re mid table everything’s ok. Facts are we’ve gone on long poor runs for the last THREE seasons . How is that progression ? 

[juice]

39 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

It’s not just about league position though is it . Can you honestly say that LJ is learning/ progressing as a manager ? Imo , no he isn’t . He keeps making the same mistakes. I’ve said it time and again in here. Good managers have a philosophy , a way of playing and sticks to it. He changes like the wind after a few defeats and seems to panic. I’d have no confidence in the bloke If I played for him. Some seem so blinded that because we’re mid table everything’s ok. Facts are we’ve gone on long poor runs for the last THREE seasons . How is that progression ?