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What will it realistically take for LJ to get sacked?


Unan

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like you said, he keeps saying hes learning by is mistakes- really

keeps saying its a young squad?

low on confidence

A good coach/manager would install confidence back, I REALLY think hes LOST the dressing room and they NO LONGER WANT TO PLAY FOR HIM.

Hes taken us as far as he can manage/ time for a change  before its too late and we are playing that local derby the sags are longing for......

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4 hours ago, luke4d89 said:

Sorry just trying to gauge what it is we expect.

We sold our 3 best players of last season losing half the goals we scored last year.

We have already had some outstanding results this season beating Swansea, Brentford and Sheffield United and have been competitive in every game we have played.

Plus we are where we should be realistically in the table. I think people should take a long hard look at Ipswich im happy to stay in the Championship and push for the Play Offs when we can. Which is where our club is im afraid.

Funny i remember posting this about the last Johnson who got sacked because of a few over expectant idiots on here causing unrest if the next fall is anything like that i may give up watching im done with league one i have not the money or time to waste.  

You serious?

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55 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

It’s not just about league position though is it . Can you honestly say that LJ is learning/ progressing as a manager ? Imo , no he isn’t . He keeps making the same mistakes. I’ve said it time and again in here. Good managers have a philosophy , a way of playing and sticks to it. He changes like the wind after a few defeats and seems to panic. I’d have no confidence in the bloke If I played for him. Some seem so blinded that because we’re mid table everything’s ok. Facts are we’ve gone on long poor runs for the last THREE seasons . How is that progression ? 

Does lack of progression or regression in a single season warrant a sacking though? I'd say we are a better team than we were when LJ took over. Perhaps worse than we were last season but that's no surprise given we lost our best players. I think we'll end up in a similar position to what we were last season. But we will see.

Me not wanting LJ sacked does not mean that I think everything is okay.

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11 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Does lack of progression or regression in a single season warrant a sacking though? I'd say we are a better team than we were when LJ took over. Perhaps worse than we were last season but that's no surprise given we lost our best players. I think we'll end up in a similar position to what we were last season. But we will see.

Me not wanting LJ sacked does not mean that I think everything is okay.

As I said though . Is LJ showing signs of progressing as a manager ? The most worrying trait for me is he doesn’t learn from his mistakes. I for one am not calling for instant promotion but I want us to progress . I honestly can’t see us doing that under LJ . The club’s doing a lot right , especially with the academy . The buck stops though with the first team and I personally think LJ Is out of his depth . 

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5 hours ago, Alessandro said:

I think the atmosphere at the gate will be beyond ugly if we lose to Ipswich and then Millwall.

SL can't ignore the crowd easily and surely LJ cannot survive another run of consecutive defeats. 

I don’t think the atmosphere will be ‘beyond ugly’ if we lose to Ipswich and Millwall...I think it will be even more non-existent than it has been....if that is actually possible?! Many more will stay away....people are fed up....there are better things to do than have a crap day/evening out at The Gate....patience is wearing thin amongst many...so I think the result, if it goes on like this, won’t be an ugly atmosphere, it will be a more empty stadium...

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5 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

oops

 

20 hours ago, Swede said:

Tin hat on; I do believe he's a good coach. He's only fronting the club's management policy and long term strategy on the pitch.

To get rid of him you might as well get rid of the rest of the coaching set up and Mark Ashton as well, as they would all be culpable.

I have a different perspective in that we've lost three cornerstones of the team who would have been coveted by all teams in this league and beyond. 

That's bound to have an effect this season whilst he looks for a way in overcoming the predicament, and before people jump down my throat with ridicule, they have been replaced with good players but one could argue, not in the same bracket.

I venture Flint, Bryan & Reid would walk into many teams but maybe not Webster, Dasilva & Weimann.

Unless you have a crystal ball how on earth could you contemplate Weimann not scoring for the last few months.

We were never going to pay £10M + for a player yet realistically that's what was needed to replace Bobby Reid to get a 20+ goal striker and don't forget we've lost 30+ goals with those three players.

We are paying the price for a recruitment policy (which LJ, JM & DH are a part of) that includes MA, the directors and the major shareholder of developing talent and buying reletively cheaply and selling for big bucks

Its a very fine line because the instant demands of the modern game to be successful now, don't necessarily go hand in hand with our club's long term strategy.

I am genuinely concerned that we have lost our identity and lost our way. I am really concerned that the strikers are in the team by default as none of them are performing.

As much as it's easy to vilify LJ, I blame the club's recruiting policy for where we are.

It is true that we should be getting more out of our players and that is a criticism of the coaching staff but I really do think the problem lies deeper within the club.

 

So you mean its SL`s fault ? as he set out our policy and has recruited the manager to manage that policy; and by the way he has morphed us into his Bristol Sport empire, because he can, totally ignoring any fan imput on that decision, a decision that could prove difficult to get out of and put off any future investor in this club further down the line.

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The argument I see of "We are where we should be in the table" is a slightly odd one to me - in my mind, an awful manager would take us down (i.e. below our "wage" position, or whatever similar metric you want) and a great one would take us up for the opposite reason. Awful managers have their team performing far below where you would expect, great ones have them performing far higher - and truly great ones have them performing far higher consistently.

The fact we are around where we should be implies to me that Lee is a very average manager - and that we're looking down rather than up implies since he started here, he has not improved and is in fact going backwards. The fact that we also have the much vaunted stability factor here which should weigh in our favour is even more disturbing. The "value add" factor I want to see from our manager - their ability to stamp themselves on our club, and have us performing above expectations is sadly lacking. If i could see a coherent strategy or long term plan I could accept an average "now" if I expected a good "later" - but I can't see that either. If there was excitement at the Gate, and a feel good factor around I could also accept an average "now" - but I personally feel the opposite, I can't be bothered with Sunday (although I'll still go).

Lee has assembled his team, had approaching 3 years here to get his ducks in a row, hired his backroom staff, spread his ethos, talked his bullshit, and spent a shit tonne of (not his) money... and there is still no value added from him that I can see - we're not performing anywhere above where you would expect us to be. In fact, our trajectory is currently steadily downwards. You would expect an inconsistent patch near the start of his tenure, but it's getting worse if anything the longer he has, and the more that he touches and makes his. That's not a good sign in my eyes.

I don't accept the arguments about development. We should have a strategy for now, and a strategy for the future - and a very solid strategy for how we get from one to the other. Our strategy for now seems haphazard at best, full of excuses and money, and basically non existent. The strategy for the future doesn't seem clear, and at this point I'm very dubious as to whether the future will ever even arrive with Lee, or will always be 2 more windows and a load of excuses away. Yes I know we sold our best players, but we knew that was coming. I thought that was part of our plan.

Maybe I'm being harsh, but that's a long time and a lot of money - and ultimately I don't want an average manager (or worse) here. I want a good manager, with a solid strategy laid out. What I see is an average at best manager on a downwards trajectory, with no strategy.

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2 hours ago, Bri Stool City said:

 

So you mean its SL`s fault ? as he set out our policy and has recruited the manager to manage that policy; and by the way he has morphed us into his Bristol Sport empire, because he can, totally ignoring any fan imput on that decision, a decision that could prove difficult to get out of and put off any future investor in this club further down the line.

I am saying LJ is just the Head Coach. He has to work with what he's given.

I would say collectively we are under performing at the moment.

Yes he has an input but not the sole input in the sense of a manager, yet he's the one who takes the flack.

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3 hours ago, Shtanley said:

Does lack of progression or regression in a single season warrant a sacking though? I'd say we are a better team than we were when LJ took over. Perhaps worse than we were last season but that's no surprise given we lost our best players. I think we'll end up in a similar position to what we were last season. But we will see.

Me not wanting LJ sacked does not mean that I think everything is okay.

Are we? We certainly should be after he's had the final say on the signing of close to 50 players.

In most areas we've got a solid squad which collectively should be playing much better football.

Is LJ organising and motivating the players to be as good as they could be?

Not in my opinion.

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2 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I don’t think the atmosphere will be ‘beyond ugly’ if we lose to Ipswich and Millwall...I think it will be even more non-existent than it has been....if that is actually possible?! Many more will stay away....people are fed up....there are better things to do than have a crap day/evening out at The Gate....patience is wearing thin amongst many...so I think the result, if it goes on like this, won’t be an ugly atmosphere, it will be a more empty stadium...

Exactly right.

The football is all too often tedious and frustrating and the selection, tactics and subs. mystifying - all in all very little on show for the spectator to get excited about.

There's little atmosphere because there's simply nothing to get enthusiastic about attending a game at AG these days, and it's been like that for too long.

Fans have been patient and, in terms of numbers at least, very supportive of the club and it's 'project' but that patience is fast running out now.

If there's no sign of a bit more entertainment and enjoyment on offer from a visit to AG expect the general disillusionment to manifest itself in an increasing number of empty seats as this season goes on, and, even if we stay up, a big drop in ST's next.

 

 

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I couldn't bring myself to go to the last 3 games of last season having spend good money to go and see inept performances at both Burton and Barnsley. I renewed my season ticket at about the same time as FOMO always creeps in, but I am not enjoying being at the Gate presently and am thinking about another hiatus. The money doesn't even come in to it anymore, I just don't want to waste 2-3 hours of my life being bored shitless. I'd rather we go for broke and lose than play boring football and end up with the same result.

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On ‎25‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 08:44, reddogkev said:

Well, it looks like the knives have come out anyway.  Like I said during the week, we all knew Leeds were going to win, many tipped a good battering.  a 2-0 with just ten men certainly doesn't show that we took a battering.  Take a breath.

….was important to avoid a good battering  - in fact just the thought was enough to sicken CO'D!  

& who could blame him?

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If I were a money-man, critical management performance measures would be 1) improving the assets 2) increasing customers 3) winning monetary prizes. 

On all three counts we’re on a downward spiral, moving at rapid speed away from delivery of these key targets. 

Steve is a money-man. 

 

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On ‎24‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 16:49, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Him to agree with me that Lansdown has done more harm than good?

Unless you judge progress by having a shiny stadium. That hosts the ******* Spice Girls and Take That ?

Just to clarify, you think, taking everything into consideration, Steve Lansdown has been bad for your club?

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18 minutes ago, Miah Dennehy said:

Just to clarify, you think, taking everything into consideration, Steve Lansdown has been bad for your club?

No he hasn’t Miah obviously. I’ve always thought though that he knows very little about the game. Great business man and always back his managers financially but can’t pick a good manager. (Cotterill wasn’t his choice by the way ) his tack record with managers is very poor GJ aside. 

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On 25/11/2018 at 15:47, reddogkev said:

Why should he have been sacked 2 years ago?  Nonsense.  Have we been relegated during the last 2 years?  Nope, we have progressed slowly and went on a long cup run, as you know.

Ok I’ll re-phrase that. He was lucky not to have been sacked 2 years ago. 

The cup run was great, and certainly gave him a stay of execution, and made Steve Lansdown look a genius by sticking by his man. And I’d accept that you could argue we were progressing each season. But this season I’m affraid shows the lack of real progression. Each season has been blighted by a startling poor run of form at the tail end, but this season we never really got going and this form will 100% see us relegated. I’ll wager anyone We will be in the relegation places by Christmas, and cut adrift by the end of the January transfer window with Johnson in charge. 

 

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It’s as simple as this football is a results driven business and the way the results have been in 2018 is not acceptable. In fact this year has been horrendous no other manager in the country would have survived this year.

I wanted LJ to succeed as I believe he really cares about the club and I reckon he works tirelessly but it’s plain to see he is not the man to take us forward. He has spent more money then any other manager in our history and we’re still a poor side in this division.

LJ assistants are poor in my opinion with no experience that LJ needs and tactics and knowledge has been lacking.

What I will give LJ is he has kept us in this division and he has bought more academy players through to the first team.

My opinion is that LJ is on his last legs and the next few games are huge for his City career

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3 minutes ago, Sparkz 76 said:

It’s as simple as this football is a results driven business and the way the results have been in 2018 is not acceptable. In fact this year has been horrendous no other manager in the country would have survived this year.

I wanted LJ to succeed as I believe he really cares about the club and I reckon he works tirelessly but it’s plain to see he is not the man to take us forward. He has spent more money then any other manager in our history and we’re still a poor side in this division.

LJ assistants are poor in my opinion with no experience that LJ needs and tactics and knowledge has been lacking.

What I will give LJ is he has kept us in this division and he has bought more academy players through to the first team. 

My opinion is that LJ is on his last legs and the next few games are huge for his City career 

Has he?

I'll give you Kelly, and the upturn in Reid's fortunes (he didn't bring him through). He's not exactly Frank de Boer at Ajax...

Frank de Boer, there's a thought.

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39 minutes ago, city1983 said:

Ok I’ll re-phrase that. He was lucky not to have been sacked 2 years ago. 

The cup run was great, and certainly gave him a stay of execution, and made Steve Lansdown look a genius by sticking by his man. And I’d accept that you could argue we were progressing each season. But this season I’m affraid shows the lack of real progression. Each season has been blighted by a startling poor run of form at the tail end, but this season we never really got going and this form will 100% see us relegated. I’ll wager anyone We will be in the relegation places by Christmas, and cut adrift by the end of the January transfer window with Johnson in charge. 

 

I don't see us being relegated or cut adrift this season.  I will be astonished if we drop into the bottom 3 places and will take that wager, let's just say a tenner for fun.  Payable at the Bolton home game in Jan, near the Atyeo statue before the match.

When things go poorly, it's all too easy to forget that already this season we've had some very good results, beating Swansea and Brentford away, Blackburn 4-1, already beating Sheff Utd despite their very impressive form this season.  I don't think we would have lost Saturday if Brownhill wasn't sent off, it would have remained a draw.

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12 hours ago, IAmNick said:

The argument I see of "We are where we should be in the table" is a slightly odd one to me - in my mind, an awful manager would take us down (i.e. below our "wage" position, or whatever similar metric you want) and a great one would take us up for the opposite reason. Awful managers have their team performing far below where you would expect, great ones have them performing far higher - and truly great ones have them performing far higher consistently.

The fact we are around where we should be implies to me that Lee is a very average manager - 

I think this is key.

The owner has clearly stated what he wants to see this season - "get in the top six and vie for promotion at the end of the season" - and, with our resources, and selling three of our best over the summer, to do that requires more than an average job of leadership. Much more. Possibly too much.

Despite what some silly billies say on here, SL wants to see us in the PL, at some point. And meantime, looking like we are moving in that direction (a "PL club in waiting").

So, carry on as we are - bottom half of the table, going backwards from last season - and at some point something has to give. Either, 1. LJ, or 2. SL revises his expectations/ goes back on his word. 

Clearly, SL will give LJ more time than most on here would but much more like Preston and Wednesday at home, Rotherham and Wigan away, and with interest in the stands and the ringing of beer sales tills in the concourse dwindling, SL will find it harder to ignore, and find himself at a fork in the road ahead.

I would've thought ....

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14 minutes ago, Sparkz 76 said:

What about Max o Leary then

Stretching it to say he's brought him through. Well documented LJ wanted another keeper in the summer, and but for Frankies injury Max wouldn't have played for us, he'd probably be out on loan.

You may as well say he's brought George Dowling through because he's made a couple of sub appearances.

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Sorry just feel we are only a few results away from being a winning side. We are not being battered,  we are competitive in each game just have a scroll through match stats of each game for the facts on that matter.

 

I anticipate a strong finish this year as opposed to a strong start last.

 

We missed out on Marriott in the summer we were still trying to sign him up until Eisa who has been injured so our Goal scoring replacement has not even got going. I also have faith the Scunthorpe midfielder we signed will come good.

 

I feel a couple of astute loan signings we are looking at a top half/ Play off push but I guess we will see maybe I am deluded or maybe I see the bigger picture. But it is my opinion as a paying spectator just like you all are.

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37 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Stretching it to say he's brought him through. Well documented LJ wanted another keeper in the summer, and but for Frankies injury Max wouldn't have played for us, he'd probably be out on loan.

You may as well say he's brought George Dowling through because he's made a couple of sub appearances.

Was due to go on loan to Macclesfield for season

As for Kelly , he’s handled him ok , possibly well, but any manager with an ounce of grey matter would have been getting him in 

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7 hours ago, reddogkev said:

I don't see us being relegated or cut adrift this season.  I will be astonished if we drop into the bottom 3 places and will take that wager, let's just say a tenner for fun.  Payable at the Bolton home game in Jan, near the Atyeo statue before the match.

When things go poorly, it's all too easy to forget that already this season we've had some very good results, beating Swansea and Brentford away, Blackburn 4-1, already beating Sheff Utd despite their very impressive form this season.  I don't think we would have lost Saturday if Brownhill wasn't sent off, it would have remained a draw.

Yeah, yeah, you also went on record last season first of all saying we were nailed on for a top two finish, then couldn't see it us finishing outside the top six... so forgive us all if we take no comfort in your view that we won't be relegated!

I honestly think it's very likely we will be relegated if SL sticks with LJ & co. He might be a 'nice bloke' who genuinely wants to do well, but 9 wins in 42 league games in 2018 tell it's own story. He has to go, preferably before he wastes more funds in the Jan window.

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