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BobBobSuperBob

The Fans Forum , Some rambling thoughts and our Head Coach

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Thanks Bob, much appreciated.

I for one have long been convinced that MA has far too much influence over recruitment and have some sympathy with LJ on that front. I don't doubt Ashton's ego means we will never have a DoF.

LJ overstates his case but he also has a point about the unrealistic expectation that he should be developing and selling players consistently yet still deliver promotion.

Like you though I no longer think LJ has what it takes but any fans who think the kind of big name manager they crave would work under the constraints Ashton imposes, presumably with SL's blessing, are kidding themselves.

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Have to say , what worried me most was the apparent lack of a clear plan atm (First team wise) and confusion and even some bewilderment at why some things were happening / not happening

He appears to believe some tweaks will find the answer 

His focus / proliority appears to be on the No 10 and goal scoring positions with no mention of improving the midfield

 

 

 

oh , in a hopeful note Bakinson has been earning some good plaudits at Newport and appears to be coming on strong

 

 

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The bit about the aura really hits home for me. Granted this is an opinion but I just can’t see Lee Johnson firing up a side at HT or getting into them after a bad performance. Think our performances suggest this as well. Over his tenure we seem to be ok in the big high pressure games because well, it is easier to do so. Then you get you midweek games at wigan or Rotherham where we seem to always struggle. This is where LJ seems to really struggle. Getting the side up for a non glamourous tie. We talk about leaders on the pitch but I am not sure we have a leader on the sidelines and for me that is a vital trait for a good manager

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4 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

The bit about the aura really hits home for me. Granted this is an opinion but I just can’t see Lee Johnson firing up a side at HT or getting into them after a bad performance. Think our performances suggest this as well. Over his tenure we seem to be ok in the big high pressure games because well, it is easier to do so. Then you get you midweek games at wigan or Rotherham where we seem to always struggle. This is where LJ seems to really struggle. Getting the side up for a non glamourous tie. We talk about leaders on the pitch but I am not sure we have a leader on the sidelines and for me that is a vital trait for a good manager

Joe 

There were about 7/8 of us stood around chatting to him and other than being the obvious focus in the group due to his position he would have been way down the list in terms of basic presence and stature amongst the group (That’s not his fault) Some of the Fans , Matt Withers being one were , generally far more clear in their thoughts and explanations 

It may sound unfair but I can imagine plenty of sniggering amongst the squad , he really does , and said , some very strange or slightly cringeworthy things (Which Im not going to detail) 

 

Because of his lack of natural aura / stature he is heavily reliant upon earning respect from his coaching and tactical nous and  in his man management skills 

i would think most of the time he’s a jovial , helpful , kind ‘gaffer’ , but he ‘spikes’ quickly at any inferred criticism and think he could turn quite quickly 

 

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7 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Thanks Bob.

Did Lee talk about his relationship with his employer? 

I’m intrigued. I’d say both are well and truly out of their footballing depth.....

He didn’t mate 

As a result of a comment I heard made by one person (For obvious reasons I won’t name) 

I do wonder whether all of SLs Merry men actually believe in the feasibility of all his wishes and philosophy 

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11 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Joe 

There were about 7/8 of us stood around chatting to him and other than being the obvious focus in the group due to his position he would have been way down the list in terms of basic presence and stature amongst the group (That’s not his fault) Some of the Fans , Matt Withers being one were , generally far more clear in their thoughts and explanations 

It may sound unfair but I can imagine plenty of sniggering amongst the squad , he really does , and said , some very strange or slightly cringeworthy things (Which Im not going to detail) 

 

Because of his lack of natural aura / stature he is heavily reliant upon earning respect from his coaching and tactical nous and  in his man management skills 

i would think most of the time he’s a jovial , helpful , kind ‘gaffer’ , but he ‘spikes’ quickly at any inferred criticism and think he could turn quite quickly 

 

Zero gravitas, unfortunately. We've got one joker and we love him ... and he knows/likes his place. God bless you Scott Murray.

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Thanks Bob. Fascinating. The aura stuff matters in leadership, and on the basis of a lifetime working with household names with giant egos - not unlike professional footballers with regard to their talent, earnings and sense of self-worth - you either have it or you don't. And heaven help you if you don't.

Reflecting on today for example - Bielsa vs LJ...I mean...really?

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33 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Joe 

There were about 7/8 of us stood around chatting to him and other than being the obvious focus in the group due to his position he would have been way down the list in terms of basic presence and stature amongst the group (That’s not his fault) Some of the Fans , Matt Withers being one were , generally far more clear in their thoughts and explanations 

It may sound unfair but I can imagine plenty of sniggering amongst the squad , he really does , and said , some very strange or slightly cringeworthy things (Which Im not going to detail) 

 

Because of his lack of natural aura / stature he is heavily reliant upon earning respect from his coaching and tactical nous and  in his man management skills 

i would think most of the time he’s a jovial , helpful , kind ‘gaffer’ , but he ‘spikes’ quickly at any inferred criticism and think he could turn quite quickly 

 

Nail on head Bob.

It was me that mentioned aura in the Forum thread.

I have managed / coached at an amateur level and even there you need to have an element of that.

You need to be able to 'hold' the group both at training and on match days, it must be much much more crucial in the professional game and I just dont believe Lee has that.

Sadly, I think this could all collapse very quickly.

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Bob, really appreciate this thread, for me it throws a lot of light on what has been an intriguing, occasionally breathtaking but mostly bizarre period for the club.

While I am sure LJ hasn't always helped himself, I am able to see him in a more sympathetic light. To say he sounds like a man under pressure is putting it mildly. 

I wonder how many other HCs could or would work under the current 'philosophy' of the club. I suspect LJ maybe in a very small group, possibly the only one.

I wonder if SL knows that too; at this moment LJ is 2nd longest serving manager/HC in the championship.

It all seems so hopeful and fanciful, and if the current trend of results & performances continue SL will be caught between a rock & a hard place. 

All this on the back of one of our most enjoyable & successful seasons ever, when one of our most competent, professional and down to earth managers turned into a 'failure' during his summer holiday. I still wonder how that happened, although I have an inkling.

To truly understand what on earth is going on we'd have to be privy to the inner machinations of the club. Think a thread like this is as close as we'll get so thanks again Bob.

 

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1 minute ago, Nbafc said:

I wonder how many other HCs could or would work under the current 'philosophy' of the club.

 

Certainly not the kind of big names people keep bringing up. No chance they would defer to Ashton.

And they tend to demand a bottomless pit of money to spend.

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Good post Nbafc.

As I have said many times the plan is utterly flawed and an experienced HC is not going to sign up to it unless they are desperate for the money.

LJ going may, in effect, not change very much.

My money is on Micheal Appleton if indeed a vacancy does come up.

Frying pan fire, springs to mind.

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10 minutes ago, Nbafc said:

Bob, really appreciate this thread, for me it throws a lot of light on what has been an intriguing, occasionally breathtaking but mostly bizarre period for the club.

While I am sure LJ hasn't always helped himself, I am able to see him in a more sympathetic light. To say he sounds like a man under pressure is putting it mildly. 

I wonder how many other HCs could or would work under the current 'philosophy' of the club. I suspect LJ maybe in a very small group, possibly the only one.

I wonder if SL knows that too; at this moment LJ is 2nd longest serving manager/HC in the championship.

It all seems so hopeful and fanciful, and if the current trend of results & performances continue SL will be caught between a rock & a hard place. 

All this on the back of one of our most enjoyable & successful seasons ever, when one of our most competent, professional and down to earth managers turned into a 'failure' during his summer holiday. I still wonder how that happened, although I have an inkling.

To truly understand what on earth is going on we'd have to be privy to the inner machinations of the club. Think a thread like this is as close as we'll get so thanks again Bob.

 

Your welcome

Ive tried to keep it mainly to what was said and my own thoughts to a minimum unless there appeared to be a clear ‘message’

 

As for your comment

While I am sure LJ hasn't always helped himself, I am able to see him in a more sympathetic light. To say he sounds like a man under pressure is putting it mildly’

Funnily enough , although I’ve always had real doubts about him I came away almost feeling sorry for him

Hes clearly trying extremely hard , possibly too hard , under a clear defined owners plan and wishes , but looking as if he’s drowning atm

Budget and wages are an obvious restriction and frustration but even on that he has spent a lot of money millions) on players who are not effecting current performances in any way as they are not on the pitch

Been saying through his reign , whatever our budget - I’m not sure we’ve used it astutely or needed the number in our first team squad whilst diluting the quality of the starting eleven

 

Edited by BobBobSuperBob
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4 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Certainly not the kind of big names people keep bringing up. No chance they would defer to Ashton.

And they tend to demand a bottomless pit of money to spend.

Mick McCarthy.

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Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

Going back to Republic mate

****.

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2 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

+ a name would want a budget. I predict no purchases in January.

Since when? He had 6 million total in his entire time at Ipswich.

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14 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Your welcome

Ive tried to keep it mainly to what was said and my own thoughts to a minimum unless there appeared to be a clear ‘message’

 

As for your comment

While I am sure LJ hasn't always helped himself, I am able to see him in a more sympathetic light. To say he sounds like a man under pressure is putting it mildly’

Funnily enough , although I’ve always had real doubts about him I came away almost feeling sorry for him

Hes clearly trying extremely hard , possibly too hard , under a clear defined owners plan and wishes , but looking as if he’s drowning atm

Budget and wages are an obvious restriction and frustration but even on that he has spent a lot of money millions) on players who are not effecting current performances in any way as they are not on the pitch

Been saying through his reign , whatever our budget - I’m not sure we’ve used it astutely or needed the number in our first team squad whilst diluting the quality of the starting eleven

 

I am starting to feel for him too Bob.

I think he has made some big mistakes, certainly on recruitment, but his hands are tied to an extent with the utterly flawed plan that is in place currently,

 

 

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15 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Your welcome

Ive tried to keep it mainly to what was said and my own thoughts to a minimum unless there appeared to be a clear ‘message’

 

As for your comment

While I am sure LJ hasn't always helped himself, I am able to see him in a more sympathetic light. To say he sounds like a man under pressure is putting it mildly’

Funnily enough , although I’ve always had real doubts about him I came away almost feeling sorry for him

Hes clearly trying extremely hard , possibly too hard , under a clear defined owners plan and wishes , but looking as if he’s drowning atm

Budget and wages are an obvious restriction and frustration but even on that he has spent a lot of money millions) on players who are not effecting current performances in any way as they are not on the pitch

Been saying through his reign , whatever our budget - I’m not sure we’ve used it astutely or needed the number in our first team squad whilst diluting the quality of the starting eleven

 

How much power does MA actually have? Not just from a football point of view but in the whole set up?

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6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Your welcome

Ive tried to keep it mainly to what was said and my own thoughts to a minimum unless there appeared to be a clear ‘message’

 

As for your comment

While I am sure LJ hasn't always helped himself, I am able to see him in a more sympathetic light. To say he sounds like a man under pressure is putting it mildly’

Funnily enough , although I’ve always had real doubts about him I came away almost feeling sorry for him

Hes clearly trying extremely hard , possibly too hard , under a clear defined owners plan and wishes , but looking as if he’s drowning atm

Budget and wages are an obvious restriction and frustration but even on that he has spent a lot of money millions) on players who are not effecting current performances in any way as they are not on the pitch

Been saying through his reign , whatever our budget - I’m not sure we’ve used it astutely or needed the number in our first team squad whilst diluting the quality of the starting eleven

 

The phrase "failing is one thing, being set up to fail is another all together" keeps springing to mind.

Agree again with the comment on quantity over quality. That in my view was always going to happen as the 'philosophy' is fundamentally flawed. Unless LJ is a manager on a par with some of the best in the game.

Here's hoping it doesn't end in another O'Driscollesque clean out with the spectre of league 2 forcing SL to relinquish his ideals. 

Its hard to believe the current situation represents the best we can do. Fingers crossed for Wednesday then, Ipswich are poor but have improved under Lambert and nearly nicked a point yesterday. They and Millwall will be earmarking us as a team they can take points off.

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Thanks for your insights, the premier emotion i feel reading this is ...............exasperation.  Lee seems like the kind of guy I'd like to spend time with in the pub talking football, but not the type to manage the club i support.  He patently lacks the charisma and will to motivate and instil loyalty and commitment in his squad.  He should be coaching somewhere under an experienced manager, not managing a championship club.  Someone stated we cannot afford a name manager, we don't need a manager whose a name, but one who has tactical nous and man managenent skiils.  I like the way Norwich appointed a young but fairly experienced manager, we just need to do our homework and research to a better extent.  I do believe recruitment has been an issue that has been poorly addressed, and I too feel sorry for LJ, but i'm certain he will have a long and successful career, just not here, and not at this time.

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5 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

How much power does MA actually have? Not just from a football point of view but in the whole set up?

I suspect not that much.

Its a family business - they have the power and all of the control.

Its a good gig, given his salary, and the fact that he would be unlikely to get a similar role at a similar salary anywhere else.

Therefore, he is unlikely to rock any boats.

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1 hour ago, Nbafc said:

The phrase "failing is one thing, being set up to fail is another all together" keeps springing to mind.

Agree again with the comment on quantity over quality. That in my view was always going to happen as the 'philosophy' is fundamentally flawed. Unless LJ is a manager on a par with some of the best in the game.

Here's hoping it doesn't end in another O'Driscollesque clean out with the spectre of league 2 forcing SL to relinquish his ideals. 

Its hard to believe the current situation represents the best we can do. Fingers crossed for Wednesday then, Ipswich are poor but have improved under Lambert and nearly nicked a point yesterday. They and Millwall will be earmarking us as a team they can take points off.

Said on a number of occasions in LJs reign that for SLs philosophy to be sucessful we need top drawer

Coaching

and

Recruitment

With due respect to LJ and his lieutenants I’m none too sure we have the first and whoever’s responsibility in the second I think that’s been possibly worse

 

Brentfords relative stability has been down to very good and consistent recruitment more than great head coaches IMHO

Sheffield United performing in both aspects

Edited by BobBobSuperBob
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1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Said on a number of occasions in LJs reign that for SLs philosophy to be sucessful we top drawer

Coaching

and

Recruitment

With due respect to LJ and his lieutenants I’m none too sure we have the first and whoever’s responsibility in the second I think that’s been possibly worse

 

Brentfords relative stability has been down to very good and consistent recruitment more than great head coaches IMHO

Sheffield United performing in both aspects

Think sheff utd manager comes across as a man who won't tolerate mediocrity, where as Lee is mediocre doesn't instill fear or confidence in anyone in my opinion 

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@Bob Bob Super Bobsuperb information and thoughts.

I don't feel sorry for him though.

He's out of his depth, got the job because SL has no idea as to what makes a successful manager, and as for his comment  that "with a top end budget he’d ‘walk the championship" that is laughable. But the bit you've identified, that he has no presence, I said on day one of his appointment. Not his fault, but no football manager without that has any hope of being successful.

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1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Very confident in his abilities, possibly to a degree not yet born out by his performance. He made a claim at one point that with a top end budget he’d ‘walk the championship’ - Confidence is good, indeed probably vital but over confidence or belief is possibly not

 

Hahahahahahahaha

Sorry, I know it's very immature of me to respond to a very interesting and well written post (thank you for taking the time to post it @BobBobSuperBob) by focusing on one remark that I wasn't even there to witness myself, but my god. I genuinely can't believe he said that.

I mean it goes without saying that confidence is obviously a necessity and a little bit of ego is almost definitely a good thing in such a job, but so is having some ******* self awareness. Sat here cracking up that he said that to a group of supporters that have had the misfortune of watching his team play 'football' this year. I mean seriously, Jose Mourinho had a Champions League winners medal in his pocket when he called himself a 'special one'.

 

As for what you mention in regards to aura and credibility I make you spot on. There are many reasons I believe him to be extremely unlikely to ever have any real success as a manager (head coach), but that is certainly up there.

Obviously it's a guess (although an educated one) as I don't actually know the bloke I can imagine that although he is perfectly pleasant and other managers may give you a much harder time, he could be very difficult to truly respect. The way he talks and his little 'jokes' here and there would make him rather irritating as far as I'm concerned. I could imagine myself, as you hint at yourself, cringing when he talks and just finding him a bit odd.

As far back as his little dig at Kodjia's tactical awareness after he just arrived, put myself in Kodjia's shoes and I would seriously be thinking who on earth this bloke, that I'd never heard of and only met a few weeks ago, thinks he is. Although I guess we now know who he thinks he is, someone that with a top budget would 'walk the championship'. Sorry, still laughing at that.

Even the nonsense about Taylor the other week. Obviously it was an attempt at a joke, nobody actually thinks he was brought on because he has a song. But it was such a terrible attempt at a joke made at completely the wrong time. You wonder what goes through the bloke's head.

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2 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

Think sheff utd manager comes across as a man who won't tolerate mediocrity, where as Lee is mediocre doesn't instill fear or confidence in anyone in my opinion 

He also has a tactical plan and ethos (Pretty individualtoo tbf) and recruits players (For peanuts) that fit into that playing ethos

There’s  also no question as to who’s the boss 

 

You also reminded me that Lee claimed Sheffield United is the only time this season we’ve changed our approach or tactics for another side  - Personally I Thought this bizarre and inaccurate 

 

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1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

He also has a tactical plan and ethos (Pretty individualtoo tbf) and recruits players (For peanuts) that fit into that playing ethos

There’s  also no question as to who’s the boss 

 

You also reminded me that Lee claimed Sheffield United is the only time this season we’ve changed our approach or tactics for another side  - Personally I Thought this bizarre and inaccurate 

 

I think he over complicates the game and we end with the team playing like a bunch of strangers 

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2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Matt Taylor

Been struggling as he’s been having 2 hrs sleep at a time due to a new baby

 

Just don't employ a nanny for him ok Mark Ashton. I mean it. Don't do it.

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Surely Matt Taylor could stay in hotel the night before a game?   I’ve coped with two hour feeding intervals for the last 4 months and still worked 45 hours a week.  I know it’s hard but jeeeeze 

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11 minutes ago, TomF said:

Surely Matt Taylor could stay in hotel the night before a game?   I’ve coped with two hour feeding intervals for the last 4 months and still worked 45 hours a week.  I know it’s hard but jeeeeze 

Your right but some people live and work in the real world I'm afraid footballers don't have to poor buggers

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3 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Evening all

Apologies after disappearing for several reasons after the forum posts -

Anyone who asked a specific q resulting from it and not answered below - I will try and answer directly at some point

Will stay out of the today’s post match reaction and rewind the clock to my Post Forum thoughts and some bits that came out that some might find interesting, relevant and want to chew over , and clarify some misinformation that has surfaced from the Forum

 

The badge

I see one of our posters has indicated that ‘Concorde’ was mentioned 

unless it was mentioned Post Forum it wasn’t mentioned by JL on stage

 

Replacing / Finding a striker from the academy ‘

In fairness this has been misrepresented , when asked about finding a Goalscorer MA and LJ explained that they are at a premium and very costly in the Championship and we had to look to see how we could replace goals including seeing what we could develop from within. - it was NOT a case of we will / need to replace from academy

 

Leaders & Characters

Lee was asked about characters / Leaders and having said in 2016 we needed leaders and the same again recently 2 years or so later , why we were still saying the same thing and hadn’t recruited a leader(s) 

LJ explained that they had been retrying to develop leaders amongst the group and mentioned MP specifically

 

Position in Possession

LJ , in response to a question spent some time explaining what he means by this. I won’t go into detail on this post but simplified , where he wants players to be when we are in possession - suppporting , or, protecting the player in possession - ( becoming more cautious ?  may be relevant to some of our turgid play IMHO)

 

Side v Leeds

said he was picking a side that would ‘run and sprint’

Then named side as played today except COD was starting instead of Adelukan

When he named Paterson I think most let out a noise of surprise off the back of his run and sprint comment

 

Which takes me into Jamie Paterson

From a number of comment , Lee is clearly confused himself whether or real problem is creativity or taking of chances and unsure whether to look for a Goalscorer or a creator

Lee didn’t say this specifically but he clearly sees JP as one of our best chance of being a creator and I think that’s why he keeps trying to shoehorn him in

 

Famara Diedhiou 

LJ appears, unsurprisingly ,  clearly disappointed in Famaras influence / performances recently and kept saying he ‘needs to get him going’ as he did with a number of the players and the players as a collective 

 

Matt Taylor

Been struggling as he’s been having 2 hrs sleep at a time due to a new baby

 

The way we’ve been playing

Lee thinks we have been playing well , and cutting through the first two thirds of the pitch with ease but struggling with creating and taking chances

 

He, on a number of occasions , accepted Preston performance was awful but put it down to one bad game 

on a number of occasions it was pointed out to him that in Fans opinions it wasn’t a one off bad game and cited Wigan , Rotherham etc but LJ didn’t accept that

 

I thought it summed up when one chap said to Lee

 ‘ It’s not one bad game Lee it’s 10 wins or so since January’

LJ turned to the supporter and said ‘ I know , and why ? ‘

the supporter together with the others present looked bemused and the supporter rightly said 

‘ I don’t know Lee , you’re the manager , you tell me’

 

Lee’s explanations were a mix of refereeing decisions , injuries , the loss of ‘ 3 £15. Million pound strikers’ in 3 seasons and the loss of Flint Bryan and particularly Reid (I think he’s right about Reid)

Slightly worryingly he particularly highlighted as an example Hordurs long throw to Flint but in fairness also explained why he felt Bobby so valuable

I won’t go into full detail but he is absolutely full of and focused on stats

 

Lee Himself

In discussing the pressure on him I thought Lee made a very good point

Someone on here asked if LJ feared the sack - would he have been brave enough to blood Max

Lee made a similar point insomuch he said he tries to get involved with U 13s etc and if he thought he was going to get the sack soon why would he bother with the acdemy, ie was he doing the right thing and the message that he needs that security / backing to get involved that way - It’s a fair and valid point but more a question of priorities at present time for me  

 

Lee comes across as a decent bloke and have to say again how I admired him for stating so long stood amongst supporters answering questions and discussing various things

 

There are some things he mentioned that I don’t think fair to post on here but most don’t reflect on him or his abilities or otherwise

 

Having listened to him at close hand for a hour some of my general thoughts about him were strengthened

Very passionate

lives and breathes football and his post

Very confident in his abilities, possibly to a degree not yet born out by his performance. He made a claim at one point that with a top end budget he’d ‘walk the championship’ - Confidence is good, indeed probably vital but over confidence or belief is possibly not

Lee appears a bit confused and maybe shocked by recent performances or lack of and kept saying about needing to get the ‘players going’

Unsurprisingly, He is clearly feeling the pressure

He also appears in confusion and dilemna as to whether our real problems lie in our creativity in the final third or our lack of real goal scorer

I have to confess, listening to him closely I think he could be described as dillusional ( IMHO ) in the way he describes and sees us playing and our performances

He again spoke about his ‘Busy Bee’ philosophy , but when asked how Famara fitted into any ‘Busy Bee’ philosophy he couldn’t really explain In all honesty

Having spoken to him on a few occasions and watched him since he’s been here I keep coming back to the same thing

Somebody on the Forum thread mentioned ‘aura’

I heard GJ speak and on a number of occasions and thought he epitomised aura, I recall thinking ‘Yep I’d want to play for you’

I’ve been lucky enough, on occasions to meet various characters in the game and some have had a natural aura and presence , some not

For me personally , Lee just doesn’t have that aura / presence - that’s not a criticism , that’s just the way it is

 

So when it comes to managing the players and getting the best from them Lee can try the bullying or Churchill approach , or cajoling with a backdrop of credibility

If I’m honest I believe that Lee has , and does try both

For me he simply doesn’t have the presence / aura or credibility to,pulll off the first

the second, - He clearly tries this and clearly appears to back up his coaching with a lot of stats and analysis - credibility still a question ?

 

His passion is clear , but I just don’t see him tactically or maybe more importantly , a clever / good ‘manager / leader / motivator’ 

Personally I think he gets too hung up in details and stats and he has the misfortune of saying , what I regard as silly or strange things which as I stood there the other night , and on previous occasions , if I was a player I’d be thinking ‘oh shut up’ or ‘What ?..eh ?  ‘

I’m not at all sure he has either the respect of players or that they fear him or any other motivational factor

 

I’d love to know the real truth about recruitment - a conversation I had at the Forum makes me suspect MAs fingers in the pie

 

I think LJ is trying to follow some demanding ‘wants’ from the owner as best he can

if I’m honest I’m not sure he’s up to the whole task

At one point you could almost see his exasperation as he said ‘ I’ve got to develop players from the academy , sell players to get funds in , and be twenty points clear at the top of this league’

 

Slightly dramatic but you get his drift

 

So just a few bits for people to mull over

My immediate fear is that I sense / smell a Head Coach and Squad that looks lacking in ideas or consistency in approach and has a relegation fight feel all over it atm - And Personally I don’t fancy this squad in a relegation battle

 

As I said earlier in the week , right man , wrong job for me

 

 

He also alluded that if an experienced manager like, for instance, David Moyes was wanted by Lansdown he would want about 50m as a transfer fund. Unfortunately I can’t see SL going down that route. Looks like we’re knackered, young coach unsuccessful and no intention to hire an experienced replacement. 

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18 minutes ago, aa_bcfc said:

He also alluded that if an experienced manager like, for instance, David Moyes was wanted by Lansdown he would want about 50m as a transfer fund. Unfortunately I can’t see SL going down that route. Looks like we’re knackered, young coach unsuccessful and no intention to hire an experienced replacement. 

You were clearly part of the conversations AA 

What was your impression?

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Oh, we’ve done high profile managers in the past. We had one who had taken a team to the quarter finals of the World Cup. That worked out well. Within 2 years we were relegated with a truly pathetic team.

We’ve also had a manager who had taken a team to the European Cup Final . That worked out even better. We were relegated 3 years in a row.

 

Peter Doherty and Bob Houghton (Yes, I know Dicks was in charge for the first of those 3 seasons)

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1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Nothing here that we weren't saying two years ago @BobBobSuperBob

What was your impression of JMac and Holden in regards to 'aura'?

Again , two nice enough guys but aura / presence , IMHO , no

I didn’t bother chatting to them this time around as , Tbf to them they are far more guarded and predictable in what they reveal

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4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

As I said earlier in the week , right man , wrong job for me

Great post @BobBobSuperBob Even in these difficult circumstances it made a very interesting read.

The following is all hindsight and I claim no special vision but it's clear now that LJ was always on an accelerated path back to Ashton Gate from the day he started his coaching badges. Oldham was a risky first management foray (with Steve Lansdown giving that initial reference) and Barnsley was the platform to make the BCFC switch feasible.

He stayed a minimum time at those two clubs and the call (and compensation) to join Bristol City couldn't have come any earlier.

And that's a shame.

He clearly loves BCFC and even when his reputation was soaring, we were never in danger of losing him to a bigger club. I think he's got some excellent coaching credentials and deserves huge credit for supporting Bobby Reid's development.

But, in the rush to get him into the role of first team coach, a number of inconvenient realities were overlooked - many identified in @BobBobSuperBob's original post above.  We've heard a lot about DNA and 'due diligence' but for LJ's appointment, the dice was rolled.

It's not working. It's been long enough and the playing vision is unclear. We've had more than three transfer windows and we're now heading down. This is a relegation fight.

If there was a way to retain Lee as a coach then I would be happy to see his hard work and loyalty rewarded.

We need a new voice in charge of the first team.

Edited by Xiled
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I personally agree with the many who feel that LJ's time here should be coming to an end

I thought the same about his father towards the end of his tenure as well as about SC

All this makes me again think that the common thread in all this is SL.

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2 hours ago, NickJ said:

@Bob Bob Super Bobsuperb information and thoughts.

I don't feel sorry for him though.

He's out of his depth, got the job because SL has no idea as to what makes a successful manager, and as for his comment  that "with a top end budget he’d ‘walk the championship" that is laughable. But the bit you've identified, that he has no presence, I said on day one of his appointment. Not his fault, but no football manager without that has any hope of being successful.

We can all see he is out of his depth, no leadership, over reliance on stats, too worried about opinions, says he wants leaders but got rid of the leaders he had because they were not fitting into his thinking - the mans not a leader himself! A former gutless midfielder who has the full support of the clubs financier, we have no chance!

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4 hours ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Thanks Bob.

Did Lee talk about his relationship with his employer? 

I’m intrigued. I’d say both are well and truly out of their footballing depth.....

I think you are out of your tiny mind if he actually did, mind you it wouldn't surprise me if Bob has an opinion on that one too.

 

 

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Problem with his father was that he had a squad that knew they needed to find new clubs if we won promotion, he did a fantastic job getting us to the playoffs but on the day the players played for themselves.  We will never have that opportunity under Lee!

we need a manager who can motivate, not a sycophant afraid of strong personalities!

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1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

You were clearly part of the conversations AA 

What was your impression?

Pretty much the same as you mate. I was surprised how many of those in the chat with Lee appeared, unlike me, to be very much taken in by the points Lee was making. My view was on Tuesday, and has been for some time, that he is out of his depth, signed too many average players and as you have said (and you did on Tuesday) if/when this lot are in a relegation battle they don’t look up to it. Today was a clear example, as soon as we went down to 10 we were all over the place with no leaders, organisation or composure.

Lee talks about signing players and improving them. Of those he’s signed how many could we get decent money for or would bigger clubs want? At least we don’t need to worry about bigger clubs poaching any of his signings, as we did with players he didn’t bring to the club (flint,joe, bobby) last January. 

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Just to follow on from my previous post. On Tuesday LJ spoke a lot about our identity. He said after yesterday’s game that we had got out identity back with that display. OMG if that is Bristol City’s identity we really are deep in the brown stuff. 

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