Sold our 3 best players, be realistic

[Nbafc]

29 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

I can’t understand the love in with Cotts?  Yeh we got promotion from league 1, but we paid the money to do that, the players of that team IMO would not have been anymore successful than the current crop.

Cotts came into the championship with an all firing squad full of confidence and did nothing, I’m not an LJ lover but he’s done better than Cotts did, who has never proven himself a Championship standard manager.  Winning League 1, is a given for our club IMO

You must be joking, right?!

99 points, 96 goals, only 5 league defeats all season. Quality football from a group of players who cared about the shirt. You can't understand why he's respected & admired?!

He may have had the resources to bring in the likes of Agard and Smith, but he sold Baldock and found a 20+ goalscorer in an airport lounge. Bringing them in is one thing, getting them all to perform consistently is quite another.

Yeh we got promotion from league 1, and winning it is a given for a club like us? I dont know what Bristol City you watched during the previous seasons but I remember getting out of league 1 being a bloody arduous and mostly unsuccessful trial. Even GJ's successful campaign was full of tension and bum squeaking after Christmas, certainly not 8-2 and 6-2 victories and the like. I think it was just the 5th title in our history, how on earth was it a given?

And Steve Cotterill did not go from a winner to a poor manager during the close season for no reason, something went seriously wrong within the club. We are still paying for that now. His reign effectively ended that summer, what happened after was almost embarrassing and SC and SL should share the responsibility for that.

Btw, he had also proved himself at Burnley in the championship.

Hope I've misinterpreted, but that is a post of an offensive amount of ignorance and disrespect in my view. Rant over.

[Lrrr]

1 hour ago, Frenchay Red said:

(Dwight) Gayle was never going to happen, but Gray and Maguire were virtually done deals, until the "renegotiations".

Just flagging on someones earlier point, it wasn't Landsown who was against the figures for the players but Pelling went against it which was why he was given the boot. The problem with Cotterill was his reaction to not having players signed, sticking to 532 religiously and not filling a bench really didn't help his cause. 

[Redtucks]

9 hours ago, 29AR said:

Idea, or a pre-season stint of form which planted the seed? Striker or advanced midfielder given a free role but for chasing from the front? 

It worked, he’s in credit for Reid. But how much was luck or coaching no-one knows. He’s been here long enough; how many other players, Reid aside, has he grown/ developed/ re-deployed or found their niche...? Has Brownhill kicked on to his undoubted potential, was he right to keep JB a left back when all could see he was a LM, is he a genius today bringing on a CF and taking off our two wingers in the process? 

That's all I was saying.

It made £10 million.

The rest is a different arguement.

 

[Tinmans Love Child]

8 hours ago, Kingswood Robin said:

Really? Winning any division took us 60 years. The team Cotterill assembled had a game plan and could score. We cannot say that of the current shambles. 

For me that shows how poor we were before, not how great Cotts is as a manager.  That game plan disappeared in the Championship

[Mtimmy11]

17 hours ago, Taz said:

We are in a better position, and this is coming from an anti LJ supporter. I liked Cotts as much as the next man, but his downfall was his stubborness (fielding 2 subs short to prove a point comes to mind). 

 

That's why myself and 5 friends (3season ticket holders)can't be asked to go to any more games whilst he's there.it's like watching paint dry ,the place is like a morgue.I've said before I spoke to Cottrell in the bristol Marriott and he said he knew his time was up before a ball was kicked  in the championship.it's not just on little lee who's got to go but until Jon Lansdown gets bored with his toy we are going nowhere

[BS4 on Tour...]

18 hours ago, iamsober said:

I’m pretty sure the majority thought at the start of the season after selling our 3 best players that mid table is what we should expect. League budget says we should be mid table. Not sure why people think we should be top 6

Norwich sold their best players before this season ..... they are top of the league....

[BS4 on Tour...]

18 hours ago, Bicester Red said:

And the ones he brought in are CR*P

Tell me the player who was sold is doing well!!!!!

 

Mags....

[BS4 on Tour...]

15 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Interesting that the Radio Leeds reporter was saying how stunning Luke Aylings stats were at Leeds

Said they’ve won %50 of games he’s played in and %20 of ones he hasn’t !

I got a shed load of abuse for saying that Ayling would be the first name on my team sheet if I was City boss - but LJ knows best....of course I ain’t good enough to be a pro football manager, but why can’t our Head Coach see the obvious?! 

...PS...the Dubai training break did a lot of good....what a waste of time and money....

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I got a shed load of abuse for saying that Ayling would be the first name on my team sheet if I was City boss - but LJ knows best....of course I ain’t good enough to be a pro football manager, but why can’t our Head Coach see the obvious?! 

...PS...the Dubai training break did a lot of good....what a waste of time and money....

Agree mate

V good footballer and lots of drive

As for the ‘training week’

There wasn’t one

Time off   ,little holidays ,

including as I understand the Head Coach 

 

[22A]

19 hours ago, iamsober said:

I’m pretty sure the majority thought at the start of the season after selling our 3 best players that mid table is what we should expect. League budget says we should be mid table. Not sure why people think we should be top 6

Ipswich fans expressing the same thought about their team. https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/447232/why-are-we-surprised/#40

We sold our top four scorers from last season. We sold our most creative player from last season in terms of assists and goals. We sold one of our two first choice CBs. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

25 minutes ago, Mtimmy11 said:

That's why myself and 5 friends (3season ticket holders)can't be asked to go to any more games whilst he's there.it's like watching paint dry ,the place is like a morgue.I've said before I spoke to Cottrell in the bristol Marriott and he said he knew his time was up before a ball was kicked  in the championship.it's not just on little lee who's got to go but until Jon Lansdown gets bored with his toy we are going nowhere

Isn’t it Steve Lansdown’s toy?! I agree with your other sentiments....boring afternoons in a quiet stadium are hard to put up with anymore...we make zero noise because our team is just going through the motions because they ain’t scared of our Head Coach...he has no significant success as a player or manager to gain any player’s respect....measuring the grass and PowerPoint presentations doesn’t impress or motivate the modern footballer....

[Bristol Oil Services]

15 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

I can't understand the love in with Cotts?  Yeh we got promotion from league 1, but we paid the money to do that, the players of that team IMO would not have been anymore successful than the current crop.

Cotts came into the championship with an all firing squad full of confidence and did nothing, I’m not an LJ lover but he’s done better than Cotts did, who has never proven himself a Championship standard manager. Winning League 1, is a given for our club IMO

And we've had 45 goes at League 1/Div 3, and won it twice. So that "given," has been delivered by just two managers. One of them SC. Hence the ongoing affection, and perhaps some leeway for what was a disastrous 5 months back in the Championship. Winning a league buys you that affection. LJ has not yet promoted any team.

The way we finished that L1 season, going to Bradford and sealing promotion with a 6:0 win, and after clinching promotion, applauded on to the field at Chesterfield as Champions and then delivering a win, backing up the accolade, and winning the last 45 minutes of a 46 games season 6 nothing, I have never seen the like from Bristol City. That 2014/15 team was so un-Bristol City. 

 

 

[Bazooka Joe]

18 hours ago, Lucan said:

Cotts was the epitome of a limited manager.

If you think that, then surely the same applies to Johnson.

[BS4 on Tour...]

16 hours ago, Frenchay Red said:

....Gray and Maguire were virtually done deals, until the "renegotiations".

Really? Gray said himself that Bristol City offered him a bigger salary than Burnley but he thought that The Clarets had a better chance of getting into the premier league....and he was very correct....a tiny little town called Burnley with a very small population compared to Bristol attracted bigger crowds and offered more potential - that is what we are faced with .... good players viewed championship Burnley as a better proposition than championship Bristol City - we can offer more money than them but players would rather go there....

[Bazooka Joe]

Sold our three best players?

So what was the excuse last year?

[Frenchay Red]

11 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Really? Gray said himself that Bristol City offered him a bigger salary than Burnley but he thought that The Clarets had a better chance of getting into the premier league....and he was very correct....a tiny little town called Burnley with a very small population compared to Bristol attracted bigger crowds and offered more potential - that is what we are faced with .... good players viewed championship Burnley as a better proposition than championship Bristol City - we can offer more money than them but players would rather go there....

Perhaps and you maybe correct, but Gray was hardly likely to turn up at Burnley and say he was only there because he couldn't agree a deal with Bristol City who had messed him about. Rightly or wrongly, my understanding is that Burnley only became the preferred destination after the Cotts's deal was "trimmed", while he was away on holiday. 

 

[Tinmans Love Child]

17 hours ago, glynriley said:

Behave....!!!

I missed off a Should Be, apologies

[cidercity1987]

2 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Really? Gray said himself that Bristol City offered him a bigger salary than Burnley but he thought that The Clarets had a better chance of getting into the premier league....and he was very correct....a tiny little town called Burnley with a very small population compared to Bristol attracted bigger crowds and offered more potential - that is what we are faced with .... good players viewed championship Burnley as a better proposition than championship Bristol City - we can offer more money than them but players would rather go there....

Burnley had parachute payments, we were promoted from League One. Aboslutely piss all to do with size of crowds and fanbase, as ours is significantly larger than 18,000 attendances in the Premier League Burnley.

[BTRFTG]

9 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Burnley had parachute payments

Churlish to point out to those who keep banging on about 'parachute payments' but you've got to have done something to earn them in the first place.

Lots of clubs and of supposed equal or lesser standing have, we haven't. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Burnley had parachute payments, we were promoted from League One....

.....and yet we offered Andre Gray a bigger salary than Burnley.....and he chose them.....

[Lez]

Giefer Hunt Baker Kalas Pisano Da Silva Wright Webster Hegeler Brownhill Eliasson djuric Engvall Taylor Eisa Diedhiou Tomlin Matthews ODowda Adelakun Maenpaa Watkins Walsh Woodrow Oneil Magnússon  Diony Kent Moore cotterill.

3 players leaving or not it doesnt make up for the huge amount of dross he has signed.

[Lez]

4 minutes ago, Lez said:

Giefer Hunt Baker Kalas Pisano Da Silva Wright Webster Hegeler Brownhill Eliasson djuric Engvall Taylor Eisa Diedhiou Tomlin Matthews ODowda Adelakun Maenpaa Watkins Walsh Woodrow Oneil Magnússon  Diony Kent Moore cotterill.

3 players leaving or not it doesnt make up for the huge amount of dross he has signed.

And just to add, the only players i feel who he signed to make an effective significant contribution to us is Abraham and Brownhill.

Dire track record.

[Rich]

On ‎24‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 20:18, iamsober said:

I’m pretty sure the majority thought at the start of the season after selling our 3 best players that mid table is what we should expect. League budget says we should be mid table. Not sure why people think we should be top 6

Those three players have been replaced by,  a centre back, who most people are agreed is superior to Flint in his defensive  and footballing ability, but, admittedly we miss his goal contribution, if not his defensive frailties. Less goals conceded against less goals scored. A striker, who when brought in and played centrally scored more goals per game than BR, until he was move aside to make way for Famara and his goals dried up, somewhat similar to what happened to BR when he was moved aside for Famara. JB's replacement? Loyd Kelly, or Da Silva, both competent in the left back role but not as effective going forward as JB. Add in Hunt, Kalas, Watkins and a few other first team squad members, and we have a squad equally as good as last season overall. Sadly it's being managed by the same person who oversaw our demise in the second half of the season last year. He was given more tools for the second half of last season, after having to make a team from bare bones, which was successful. The same thing has happened this year, as soon as more people were available for selection, he's used them and ruined team spirit and consistent selection.

[Bristol Oil Services]

On 24/11/2018 at 20:18, iamsober said:

I’m pretty sure the majority thought at the start of the season after selling our 3 best players that mid table is what we should expect. League budget says we should be mid table. Not sure why people think we should be top 6

....because Steve Lansdown said in May: "We now have to learn from what we've done this year....and look to go a few steps further, get in the top six and vie for promotion at the end of the season." Maybe that?

 

 

[RobintheRed Red]

On 24/11/2018 at 23:11, Frenchay Red said:

(Dwight) Gayle was never going to happen, but Gray and Maguire were virtually done deals, until the "renegotiations".

Yes mate that's why cotts looked so ******* miserable he felt let down by the owner and sulked .Done deals as you said till renegotiated

[Robin Wood]

On 25/11/2018 at 00:13, wood_red said:

I haven't read all the replies but for me personally it is the way we are playing that is the worry. The start of the season we seemed to at least to be trying to play a bit of quick passing one touch football and I seen bits and pieces of what we had at the start of last season. We had the little run of wins, and Swansea away we looked organised and very good and was one of the best away performances I have seen in years. We go and have a right go at West Brom and could have been 3 up with some brilliant attacking play but we got done by our naivety and schoolboy defending - but overall most fans were pretty happy after that defeat.

Since then it has been woeful (bar a second half against Stoke) and not entertaining at all and I really can't see where our points our going to come from. I really could have walked out against Preston at HT it was that bad, Reading was nearly as bad as well.

I have generally gave Johnson the benefit due to our cup run and the football we played back then, but surely that football should still be how we try to play now and he should have built on that. But it seems we have no idea at the moment and the players don't know what to do either. Unsure how one week we can look half decent and then the next few weeks look like a pub team. It is so inconsistent I just think we need a change now.

Here here absolutely bang on 

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 25/11/2018 at 15:17, BS4 on Tour... said:

Norwich sold their best players before this season ..... they are top of the league....

@iamsober - interesting that you chose to ignore this reply which quoted your OP - I think it’s very relevant to this thread....

[Davefevs]

On 24/11/2018 at 23:38, Tinmans Love Child said:

I can’t understand the love in with Cotts?  Yeh we got promotion from league 1, but we paid the money to do that, the players of that team IMO would not have been anymore successful than the current crop.

Cotts came into the championship with an all firing squad full of confidence and did nothing, I’m not an LJ lover but he’s done better than Cotts did, who has never proven himself a Championship standard manager.  Winning League 1, is a given for our club IMO

With my Cotts love-in / blinkers on, he assembled a squad within the restrictions of:

1. League One FFP equivalent (60% wages / revenue)
2. reduced capacity due to Rebuild, impacting above
3. funded the signings of Smith, Ayling, Freeman, Agard, Wilbraham, Little, by selling his leading scorer Baldock for best part of £2m. What an eye for a player!!  Plus didn’t get sucked into paying big wages for JET who he knew wouldn’t cut it at the next level.

Sheffield Utd, with just as big a budget, didn’t get promoted!

Sorry for pointing out that Cotts didn’t buy the League One title.  Apologies for being defensive on this! 

On 25/11/2018 at 15:29, BS4 on Tour... said:

I got a shed load of abuse for saying that Ayling would be the first name on my team sheet if I was City boss - but LJ knows best....of course I ain’t good enough to be a pro football manager, but why can’t our Head Coach see the obvious?! 

...PS...the Dubai training break did a lot of good....what a waste of time and money....

Ayling - very tidy RB (and CB cover if needed). 

Dubai was not a clubtraining break...just some players decided to go there for a break.

On 25/11/2018 at 15:49, BS4 on Tour... said:

Really? Gray said himself that Bristol City offered him a bigger salary than Burnley but he thought that The Clarets had a better chance of getting into the premier league....and he was very correct....a tiny little town called Burnley with a very small population compared to Bristol attracted bigger crowds and offered more potential - that is what we are faced with .... good players viewed championship Burnley as a better proposition than championship Bristol City - we can offer more money than them but players would rather go there....

So the story goes, Gray was nearly a done deal (naivety means we didn’t conclude it)....end of May!!!  Burnley not even in the picture at this point.  Club tried to cut a better deal, by which time Brentford, cheesed off with City’s reneging, touted Gray to Burnley.  At that point there was only one outcome.

On 25/11/2018 at 21:41, BS4 on Tour... said:

.....and yet we offered Andre Gray a bigger salary than Burnley.....and he chose them.....

I don’t believe we offered Gray more than Burnley offered at any point.  I obviously can’t be sure, but I heard we offered something like £14k pw and when Burnley came to the table later in the window, they were offering £25k.

[Robin Wood]

On 25/11/2018 at 15:35, 22A said:

Ipswich fans expressing the same thought about their team. https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/447232/why-are-we-surprised/#40

We sold our top four scorers from last season. We sold our most creative player from last season in terms of assists and goals. We sold one of our two first choice CBs.

I've got a feeling Ipswich and us will be two of the three to go down certainly the two weakest at the moment 

[BS4 on Tour...]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

So the story goes, Gray was nearly a done deal (naivety means we didn’t conclude it)....end of May!!!  Burnley not even in the picture at this point.  Club tried to cut a better deal, by which time Brentford, cheesed off with City’s reneging, touted Gray to Burnley.  At that point there was only one outcome.

I don’t believe we offered Gray more than Burnley offered at any point.  I obviously can’t be sure, but I heard we offered something like £14k pw and when Burnley came to the table later in the window, they were offering £25k.

As you say ‘so the story goes’ and you ‘can’t be sure’ - so no one really knows what went on...according to news outlets at the time, such as the BBC and Sky, our offer for Gray was only accepted in August by Brentford not May as you indicate...and Hull City also put in two bids for him at around the same time, so I’m not sure why the Bees had to ‘tout’ him to Burnley as though they were acting like some sort of agent...so, no one really knows, and we’ll probably never find out the whole truth...anyway, you and me had this very same discussion around three years ago, proves that, like our club, we also go round and round in circles! .....some interesting comments in here: