Predictable otib.......

[RumRed]

9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Liverpool in the 80s and 90s were immensely successful largely by promoting from within - the boot room. That could be what SL has in mind and if LJ was to be dismissed then possibly Macca or Deano would step up - if they wanted the job of course. 

If that happened then the destabling effect would be minimal - but if a new bloke comes in with all his people the opposite happens. 

So changing the HC wouldn't create instability?  I'm really struggling with your thought process, argument and your point.

 

You appear at best to be contrary, and at worst confused.

[Ska Junkie]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

Ive already stated that I’m neutral with LJ. I want him to succeed of course as most of do and I’m prepared to be patient and tolerant and not overreact to a poor run of results as so many do on here.

Fair comment and thank you but when does impatience and intolerance take over after yet another consistent run of bad results Sir? It's not like we haven't been here before and the football is, with all possible respect, absolute dirge. 

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, RumRed said:

So changing the HC wouldn't create instability?  I'm really struggling with your thought process, argument and your point.

Liverpool - Shankley,Paisley, Fagan,Dalglish Souness............stability........that’s my point.........

[RumRed]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

Liverpool - Shankley,Paisley, Fagan,Dalglish Souness............stability........that’s my point.........

So lets do that then.

 

Bit trickier at our level when players f off as soon as they have a sniff of the prem or more cash though.

[Major Isewater]

36 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Liverpool in the 80s and 90s were immensely successful largely by promoting from within - the boot room. That could be what SL has in mind and if LJ was to be dismissed then possibly Macca or Deano would step up - if they wanted the job of course. 

If that happened then the destabling effect would be minimal - but if a new bloke comes in with all his people the opposite happens. 

Liverpool were largely successful, that's why they promoted from within . 

 

[BigAl&Toby]

11 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

We did accept the fact a long time ago. I certainly did anyway. We all know Lansdown won't get rid of Little Lee no matter what. 

That's the problem. We have a manager in charge who is clueless....and when it comes to the football aspect of  it, the owner is even worse  

So yeah...we have accepted he's going no where. Doesn't mean we are wrong though therefore we will continue to bring it up 

Careful Andy. Never, ever criticise he who can do no wrong.

Lansdown is the messiah. Without him we’d have a shit stadium. Shit training facilities. Shit customer experience. Shit corporate facilities. Shit pies and beer. Shit pre-match entertainment.

Never mind all that though. He’s made all that so much better. We can even watch the ******* Spice Girls. 

And in the meantime shit on the pitch. Week in, week out. **** me......

[Superjack]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Ive already stated that I’m neutral with LJ. I want him to succeed of course as most of do and I’m prepared to be patient and tolerant and not overreact to a poor run of results as so many do on here.

It's not just one poor run though, is it? 

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, Superjack said:

It's not just one poor run though, is it? 

So he’s judged on past seasons rather than this season? 

[RumRed]

6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

So he’s judged on past seasons rather than this season? 

He's judged on the totality of his time in post.  Allowances made for a 'new starter' at the beginning but overall performance is what counts.  Just like a real job, otherwise I could phone in my job for 51 weeks a year and then work really hard the week before my appraisal.

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, RumRed said:

He's judged on the totality of his time in post.  Allowances made for a 'new starter' at the beginning but overall performance is what counts.  Just like a real job, otherwise I could phone in my job for 51 weeks a year and then work really hard the week before my appraisal.

So his achievements of the League cup semi finals and losing by one goal in each match to the PL Champions and Caraboa Cup winners is conveniently forgotten?

[BobBobSuperBob]

16 minutes ago, RumRed said:

He's judged on the totality of his time in post.  Allowances made for a 'new starter' at the beginning but overall performance is what counts.  Just like a real job, otherwise I could phone in my job for 51 weeks a year and then work really hard the week before my appraisal.

Of course he is 

With the recent and current situation slightly weighted if I was SL

In essence his time hear consists of

A half season relegation fight ( not his making Tbf)

A second season where we survived , largely due to Tammy’s goals , and only in the penultimate game with a great win at Brighton , and good job we did 

Then last season with the excellent start and then total collapse ( when btw we had nigh everyone available , and a new million pound signing , oh , and and two loans)

Ultimately the good start saved us from dropping into avrelegation dogfight but had the collapse started a month or so earlier ....

Then this  season .........

3 years , five transfervwindows , a turnover of 50-60 players 

For all the claims of year on year progression ,

it’s not too great in reality, is it ....

 

[RumRed]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

So his achievements of the League cup semi finals and losing by one goal in each match to the PL Champions and Caraboa Cup winners is conveniently forgotten?

Not at all, they were excellent.  However in my job I can't raise myself for the big stuff and then perform poorly for the day to day drudge and expect to be kept on.  Everyone lifts themselves for the big stuff, it's natural.  It's the day to day grind that's where your long term worth is usually judged.

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, RumRed said:

Not at all, they were excellent.  However in my job I can't raise myself for the big stuff and then perform poorly for the day to day drudge and expect to be kept on.  Everyone lifts themselves for the big stuff, it's natural.  It's the day to day grind that's where your long term worth is usually judged.

And the head coaches very own view on those games .....

No secrets ,nothing clever,

it was a free hit for the players  

[Superjack]

5 minutes ago, RumRed said:

Not at all, they were excellent.  However in my job I can't raise myself for the big stuff and then perform poorly for the day to day drudge and expect to be kept on.  Everyone lifts themselves for the big stuff, it's natural.  It's the day to day grind that's where your long term worth is usually judged.

Spot on. 

[redsquirrel]

12 hours ago, Super said:

Yesterday was nowhere near as bad as people are making out and i am not even LJ's biggest fan. Ok we failed to create much but we were comfortable at 11 v 11. A huge improvement on Preston.

this echoes my thoughts super. I thought we'd lose 4.0 so it wasn't as bad as all that even with 10. 

[Portland Bill]

8 hours ago, Robbored said:

Nearly 30 of the 47 were largely development signings. 

If you take that into consideration then it’s not so incredible after all.......but then I guess you’re one of the LJ out brigade.

Do you not think that a football manager would decide on what tactics, and what sort of  players he would need to implement those tactics when he joins that club as the manager?

Three years on we have a manager that has signed 47 players, but doesn’t know which way tactically  he would like them to play the game. 

He keeps going on about “our identity”, and “the Bristol City way”. Well, I watched four decades of City and even though we were shite for most of that time, we did play entertaining football for a decent part of it. Whereas what I’ve watched for most of the last three years is dull, bland and basically, hopeful football. 

[Portland Bill]

43 minutes ago, Robbored said:

So his achievements of the League cup semi finals and losing by one goal in each match to the PL Champions and Caraboa Cup winners is conveniently forgotten?

Not at all, but neither is the record consecutive losses by a City manager, or the regular consecutive run of losses and dire football served up on the pitch. 

 

[Superjack]

10 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Do you not think that a football manager would decide on what tactics, and what sort of  players he would need to implement those tactics when he joins that club as the manager?

Three years on we have a manager that has signed 47 players, but doesn’t know which way tactically  he would like them to play the game. 

He keeps going on about “our identity”, and “the Bristol City way”. Well, I watched four decades of City and even though we were shite for most of that time, we did play entertaining football for a decent part of it. Whereas what I’ve watched for most of the last three years is dull, bland and basically, hopeful football. 

'Like'. 

(Used up my quota). 

[Robbored]

19 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Well, I watched four decades of City and even though we were shite for most of that time, we did play entertaining football for a decent part of it. Whereas what I’ve watched for most of the last three years is dull, bland and basically, hopeful football. 

Same  here - my first game was in 1967....but in the last 25 years or so Danny Wilson served up some entertaining stuff and your last sentence was exactly how I felt under Senior - dull, drab and pedestrian with no entertainment value whatsoever.

Must be a Johnson trait as you feel the same under LJ.

[Sturny]

Gotta hand it to @Robbored he knows how to stir the pot

Just when it was dying down too 

[Superjack]

3 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Gotta hand it to @Robbored he knows how to stir the pot

Just when it was dying down too 

He almost makes you think that he believes what he is saying.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Robbored said:

So his achievements of the League cup semi finals and losing by one goal in each match to the PL Champions and Caraboa Cup winners is conveniently forgotten?

cup upsets always happen and yes the players stepped for those games but then LJ stepped in with poor signings which he shoehorned into the starting team and upset everything......like normal...... and we dropped from promo place to mid table in another poor run.....like normal......poor management...like normal.

[Robbored]

18 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

cup upsets always happen and yes the players stepped for those games but then LJ stepped in with poor signings which he shoehorned into the starting team and upset everything......like normal...... and we dropped from promo place to mid table in another poor run.....like normal......poor management...like normal.

Three cup upsets against PL opposition always happen?

[Cowshed]

18 hours ago, Robbored said:

Not yet we haven’t but it’s a work in progress. 

Im sure LJ knows what style he’d like to employ but personally I think he shoots  himself in the foot by overthinking how to adapt against particular opposition.

Theres a lot of mileage in the old clique -  ‘let them worry about us’

It does not take two years eight months plus to employ a style. A style is merely hitting the box and going longer quicker with less touches, or hitting the box less and keeping it longer. I would politely suggest a style can be put in place after ONE training session.

You maybe confusing style with model of play. A model of play has defining principle and sub principles, and everything follows the model. Howe, Guardiola or Warnock have them in varying forms. It does not take these Coaches years to put defining principles in place. 

You have in posts said Mr Johnson wants to play like Man City, but could not identify the four/five base elements (principles) of play that are being implemented.

A predictability of Otib win, lose, draw is the ability of posters like yourselves to avoid that point - What is the model! 

[rooted]

20 hours ago, spudski said:

What you see most weeks, is no different to the majority of teams in this league. That's the Championship for you.

It's probably the hardest league in the world, because of parachute payments from the Prem.

Clubs are now playing to survive...like in the Prem.

Money has taken over. Most Clubs without parachute payments will struggle in this league. It gets harder every year.

You've only got to look at Ipswich...loads of experience in this division...going nowhere but mid table. Get rid of their good manager...and one win all season and adrift.

So many fans just don't seem to grasp how hard this division is.

Even Ole in his match report said Leeds were poor...yet sit in 3rd. We matched them most part.

No manager is going to come into this Club and change things round drastically. It is what it is.

Why anyone thinks a manager will come in here, and be able to attract better players, and pay them more in beyond me.

When you look at the likes of Stoke, Villa...all sat with us, paying more, with bigger resources, 'better players' etc...all average like us...why doesn't that sink in.

You've just got to look at the league and the results each week to realise it's completely bonkers.

Fans were saying how better Preston and Brentford are in recent months...yet both below us.

There is no magic formula...no magic wand. Stability...however boring that sounds is what is needed right now.

So many fans are saying they are bored...it's not City they are bored with...but Championship football. It's become a win at all costs league and attractive football is going out the window. People watch match of the day, and see the likes of Man City and Spurs and think we can do the same. It's not possible....watch Watford, Saints etc...that's boring too...but doing what we are aiming to do.

I actually think many would prefer us being a big fish in the smaller pond of league 1, where we can have a better quality squad for the league.

We just aren't that in this league.

For me...we were spoilt with some excellent football at the beginning of last season, it was entertaining and a pleasure to watch.

But what LJ and the Club found out, was that type of high pressing, high energy football isn't sustainable over a season. It would be if we had a high end squad of quality throughout the Club. If LJ was coach and had the resources of say a Club like Villa...then imo, he would gain promotion with entertaining football.

However...last season we tried it, we got injury after injury...not just in the first team, but throughout all the Clubs teams, right through the system. I spoke to one of our teams coaches and he told me all the players were suffering with hamstring injuries, strains, pulls, tightness. It just wasn't feasible to play that way over a whole season. We had players playing with injuries who should have been resting. And as we know it all went downhill.

People say we aren't playing the same way...we aren't...because LJ knows we can't unless we had the quality and numbers throughout the squad.

So he's having to find a middle ground. It's obvious he's trying to find something that will work. Hence so many changes.

Must be really frustrating to want to play a certain way, but not have the resources to buy in players that are top end championship players that would gain promotion.

We can speculate as fans as much as we like...we don't have the money to pay massive...we don't attract the top end players...hence our strategy.

Imo...it's not going to get us promotion regardless of manager or coach...just stability.

Unfortunately that won't be good enough for many fans. They want their cake and to eat it.

Trust me...i'd love what most fans want...entertaining flowing football that wins games most weeks...but imo, it's not sustainable with what resources we have.

It wouldn't surprise me if LJ actually gets really frustrated this season with the whole set up. He imo, now knows how difficult it is with your hands tied behind your back.

He's more likely to be poached by another team with better resources and do well, than sacked by SL imo. He's in a no win situation.

Even if he were to get sacked, I could see him doing well at a bigger Club.

 

Excellent post 

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

You have in posts said Mr Johnson wants to play like Man City, but could not identify the four/five base elements (principles) of play that are being implemented.

A predictability of Otib win, lose, draw is the ability of posters like yourselves to avoid that point - What is the model! 

I think LJ would like to employ a similar style to Man City but they have the quality players to play in that way - City don’t have the same top quality players.

I thought City tried to press high last season using Reid as the trigger and it was pretty effective but the wheels came off when Famara returned after a long injury absence and he’s not built to play that way. It might have been a combination of the cup run and FDs return that contributed to the loss of form.

This season LJ seems pre occupied with width but lacks a striker whose able to get on the end and whose scoring regularly. Add to that the familiar issue of lack of creativity in midfield kinda explains why City have been recently struggling.

 

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Three cup upsets against PL opposition always happen?

Four...

[Cowshed]

23 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I think LJ would like to employ a similar style to Man City but they have the quality players to play in that way - City don’t have the same top quality players.

I thought City tried to press high last season using Reid as the trigger and it was pretty effective but the wheels came off when Famara returned after a long injury absence and he’s not built to play that way. It might have been a combination of the cup run and FDs return that contributed to the loss of form.

This season LJ seems pre occupied with width but lacks a striker whose able to get on the end and whose scoring regularly. Add to that the familiar issue of lack of creativity in midfield kinda explains why City have been recently struggling.

 

 

It is simple to put in place similar principles to Man City, or Arsenal, or a Bournemouth because some of the principles simply do not require players of top quality to carry out the tasks. The over riding essence is simplicity. Man City -The game is five elements - attack, defence, transition to defence/attack and set pieces. Those elements and the football and learning underpinning them do not go through the styles you mention because that moves simple to complex. 

With all due courtesy you are highlighting how the team waxes and wanes through styles. You are not highlighting where Mr Johnson has put in place his this is me and us footballing principles. 

 

[Sturny]

Got a feeling LJ's best City days are now behind him. Can't see us finishing higher than the previous season or getting similar performances out of the players 

Lose to Ipswich and this place will be sour, very sour and rightly so

[Robbored]

31 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

It is simple to put in place similar principles to Man City, or Arsenal, or a Bournemouth because some of the principles simply do not require players of top quality to carry out the tasks. The over riding essence is simplicity. Man City -The game is five elements - attack, defence, transition to defence/attack and set pieces. Those elements and the football and learning underpinning them do not go through the styles you mention because that moves simple to complex. 

With all due courtesy you are highlighting how the team waxes and wanes through styles. You are not highlighting where Mr Johnson has put in place his this is me and us footballing principles. 

 

If it’s so simple Cowshed why isn’t LJ or most other manager employing it?      I’m sure as part of doing their badges that all the methods and style of play are part of the curriculum and they’d be quite aware of it.