If not Johnson; then realistically who?

[Superjack]

8 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Aidy Boothroyd.

You 'eard it 'ere first.

It says something about unhealthiness of Johnson's infallibility that I would probably welcome this right now. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Superjack said:

It says something about unhealthiness of Johnson's infallibility that I would probably welcome this right now. 

Assuming we would want to maintain the philosophy , and with his experience he could be a great shout by @ZiderEyed , if he could be tempted , which tbh I would doubt 

[Superjack]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

Assuming we would want to maintain the philosophy , and with his experience he could be a great shout by @ZiderEyed , if he could be tempted , which tbh I would doubt 

Yes, you are probably correct. 

I just can't help feeling that it is a sad day when I would welcome such a 'meh' appointment. Says it all for me about the current incumbent and his relationship with the decision maker.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Yes, you are probably correct. 

I just can't help feeling that it is a sad day when I would welcome such a 'meh' appointment. Says it all for me about the current incumbent and his relationship with the decision maker.

Got Watford promoted to the Prem tbf

Learnt his coaching from youth level up

Bit of a mixed career since Watford but done well with the FA sides

Have a gut feeling he’d be a very good fit 

[Superjack]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Got Watford promoted to the Prem tbf

Learnt his coaching from youth level up

Bit of a mixed career since Watford but done well with the FA sides

Have a gut feeling he’d be a very good fit 

Well, like I say, right now I honestly think that I would have anyone else in charge. I don't mean that nastily towards LJ... there are worse people that could be in situe...but at least you feel that they would be fallible. 

[Alessandro]

Some of the names people are talking about here are just beyond unrealistic.

Sorry but Jokanovic? NOT A CHANCE. This is a man with 2 championship promotions behind him - left Watford in the Prem over contract extension issues (I.E money money money) and was shortlisted by Chelsea after Conte. Seriously, anyone thinking we can get him, get it out your head now. His next job may be in the Championship, but it will be for big money and big resources. Bare in mind he is still being paid till next summer by Fulham IIRC so will bide his time.

Moyes? He’s not taken a job out of the top tier for 15 plus years. I just can’t see it. Another premier league job will come for him, someone like Southampton. He did show more effort to blood youngsters at West Ham than both Bilic and Big Sam to be fair. If it wasn’t for his history with us, not sure he’d even be in the discussion - does he retain any good feelings towards us?

Wilder?! FFS doesn’t even deserve an answer. 

What I also don’t understand is this attitude that ‘if we just pay them enough’ any manager will come here. A) We simply can’t afford to pay “whatever it takes” B) Very few managers, especially those you’ve mentioned I’m sure are not so desperate that they’ll take any job.

You need to think what the Bristol City job will be to them. Put yourself in their shoes.

A) A project - I.E you’ll need to commit time and patience to see results

or 

B) A stepping stone - I.E you’re a lower league or new manager and you want the experience/CV points in a club under a chairman who has historically shown patience and loyalty.

Think about that and then you’ll have an idea what kind of manager you’ll get. 

If you’re David Moyes or Jokanovic, would you take this job? And why? 

[Superjack]

1 minute ago, Alessandro said:

Some of the names people are talking about here are just beyond unrealistic.

Sorry but Jokanovic? NOT A CHANCE. This is a man with 2 championship promotions behind him - left Watford in the Prem over contract extension issues (I.E money money money) and was shortlisted by Chelsea before after Conte. Seriously, anyone thinking we can get him, get it out your head now. His next job may be in the Championship, but it will be for big money and big resources. Bare in mind he is still be paid till next summer by Fulham IIRC so will bide his time.

Moyes? He’s not taken a job out of the top tier for 15 plus years. I just can’t see it. Another premier league job will come for him, someone like Southampton. He did show more effort to blood youngsters at West Ham than both Bilic and Big Sam to be fair. If it wasn’t for his history with us, not sure he’d even be in the discussion - does he retain any good feelings towards us?

Wilder?! FFS doesn’t even deserve an answer. 

What I also don’t understand is this attitude that ‘if we just pay them enough’ any manager will come here. A) We simply can’t afford to pay “whatever it takes” B) Very few managers, especially those you’ve mentioned I’m sure are not so desperate that they’ll take any job.

You need to think what the Bristol City job will be to them. Put yourself in their shoes.

A) A project - I.E you’ll need to commit time and patience to see results

B) A stepping stone - I.E you’re a lower league or new manager and you want the experience/CV points in a club under a chairman who has historically shown patience and loyalty.

Think about that and then you’ll have an idea what kind of manager you’ll get. 

If you’re David Moyes or Jokanovic, would you take this job? And why? 

I think given his affinity with the club and his recent comments that Moyes would possibly consider it. That is, until he discovered the constraints he would be working under. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

47 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Moyes? If it wasn’t for his history with us, not sure he’d even be in the discussion - does he retain any good feelings towards us?

If you’re David Moyes or Jokanovic, would you take this job? And why? 

Are you being serious?

Moyes has often said his spell at City was the happiest of his career, how much he loves the club, the fans, Bristolians, and Bristol itself.

He was on the very verge of taking the City job before an almighty boardroom cock up saw Pulis brought in instead.

He doesn't need the money anymore, what he surely wants is a challenge.

The task of taking Bristol City, a club he has great affection for, to the PL would be just such a challenge, and if he was offered the City job there's a very good chance he'd take it imo.

[Alessandro]

33 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Are you being serious?

Moyes has often said his spell at City was the happiest of his career, how much he loves the club, the fans, Bristolians, and Bristol itself.

He was on the very verge of taking the City job before an almighty boardroom cock up saw Pulis brought in instead.

He doesn't need the money anymore, what he surely wants is a challenge.

The task of taking Bristol City, a club he has great affection for, to the PL would be just such a challenge, and if he was offered the City job there's a very good chance he'd take it imo.

What I should have said was, does he retain 'enough' good feeling towards us. Yes he enjoyed playing for us and yes he nearly got the job before Everton.

Obviously neither of us can speak on his behalf, but I would imagine him seeing coming here, IMO, as too big a step down. As i've said too, money won't be a huge issue, so he can take his time, a premier league job will always be half a season around the corner for him.

Or perhaps he'd be up for the challenge, as you say? But i'm sure he'd be carefully weighing up another challenge that could leave a 'black mark' on his CV.

To say there is a "very good chance" he'd take it, (even if we could afford him) i'm not so sure. 

[Superjack]

35 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

What I should have said was, does he retain 'enough' good feeling towards us. Yes he enjoyed playing for us and yes he nearly got the job before Everton.

Obviously neither of us can speak on his behalf, but I would imagine him seeing coming here, IMO, as too big a step down. As i've said too, money won't be a huge issue, so he can take his time, a premier league job will always be half a season around the corner for him.

Or perhaps he'd be up for the challenge, as you say? But i'm sure he'd be carefully weighing up another challenge that could leave a 'black mark' on his CV.

To say there is a "very good chance" he'd take it, (even if we could afford him) i'm not so sure. 

I don't think for a minute that he would fee it as a step down. I wouldn't imagine that our current standing as a club would bother him in the slightest. 

What would is the constraints of the role and the extent of the hand tying I would guess. 

[real_bristol]

6 hours ago, Alessandro said:

Some of the names people are talking about here are just beyond unrealistic.

Sorry but Jokanovic? NOT A CHANCE. This is a man with 2 championship promotions behind him - left Watford in the Prem over contract extension issues (I.E money money money) and was shortlisted by Chelsea after Conte. Seriously, anyone thinking we can get him, get it out your head now. His next job may be in the Championship, but it will be for big money and big resources. Bare in mind he is still being paid till next summer by Fulham IIRC so will bide his time.

Moyes? He’s not taken a job out of the top tier for 15 plus years. I just can’t see it. Another premier league job will come for him, someone like Southampton. He did show more effort to blood youngsters at West Ham than both Bilic and Big Sam to be fair. If it wasn’t for his history with us, not sure he’d even be in the discussion - does he retain any good feelings towards us?

Wilder?! FFS doesn’t even deserve an answer. 

What I also don’t understand is this attitude that ‘if we just pay them enough’ any manager will come here. A) We simply can’t afford to pay “whatever it takes” B) Very few managers, especially those you’ve mentioned I’m sure are not so desperate that they’ll take any job.

You need to think what the Bristol City job will be to them. Put yourself in their shoes.

A) A project - I.E you’ll need to commit time and patience to see results

or 

B) A stepping stone - I.E you’re a lower league or new manager and you want the experience/CV points in a club under a chairman who has historically shown patience and loyalty.

Think about that and then you’ll have an idea what kind of manager you’ll get. 

If you’re David Moyes or Jokanovic, would you take this job? And why? 

Really enjoyed reading this realism. I don’t know your stance on LJ but are you suggesting that we need to give a manager time and do you think LJ has been given enough of it? 

Personally I think the answers to both of those questions are yes then no

[daored]

7 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Moyles...?

Maybe that one , career has taken a decline 

[1960maaan]

8 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

No they’re not, Braintree are in the national league....a step above national league south...which I guess is what you meant by conference south...either way, they ain’t fighting relegation from the national league south....

You’re right, that’s me typing quickly. 

From the National League to the National League South.

i started watching them before they got to the National League under Alan Devonshire, the Crowley’s took them onto another level. @BobBobSuperBob , agree with your point. That’s why I thought they would have stepped up again by now. Still young enough to get a bigger club though. If they could win the League with Lincoln it would look good on their CV.

[old_eastender]

11 hours ago, Shtanley said:

Moyes only person I'd consider anytime soon. We'd need to really be in the shit for me to want LJ out though.

Just 9 wins in 42 league matches in 2018 isn't shit enough for you, geez.

Moyes the man for me.

[swanker]

49 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

Just 9 wins in 42 league matches in 2018 isn't shit enough for you, geez.

Moyes the man for me.

Has it really been that bad? No wonder I’ve lost my enthusiasm for watching city just lately. 

[RedM]

1 hour ago, swanker said:

Has it really been that bad? No wonder I’ve lost my enthusiasm for watching city just lately. 

Must admit I was shocked when somebody else tweeted it after the match, I didn’t realise it was that bad either. I’ve only managed 3 away games this season and seen two wins and a draw, for the first time in my life I’m considering myself lucky! 

[daored]

We played a team on Saturday with a new manager to this country and to the demands of the championship. Whilst Leeds are paying Bielsa a hefty salary, of his starting 11 on Saturday; only one was a summer signing, two were making their debuts and a couple were hardly used in the previous season. 

Bielsa has got them playing in his system, wherever they maintain it for the season remains to be seen, but clearly a number of players are improved from last season. 

You look at city this year, and we don’t have a settled team, look at @Davefevs weekly thread guess the team for evidence. What is our playing style?

Johnson has been here for several seasons now with the exception of  Korey, Marlon & Pack these are his players. Which players have improved under Johnson? Reid and who else ? 

I think Bielsa shows that if you get the right manager in, who coaches the players he has, a settled team you can achieve in this league

 

[daored]

We played a team on Saturday with a new manager to this country and to the demands of the championship. Whilst Leeds are paying Bielsa a hefty salary, of his starting 11 on Saturday; only one was a summer signing, two were making their debuts and a couple were hardly used in the previous season. 

Bielsa has got them playing in his system, wherever they maintain it for the season remains to be seen, but clearly a number of players are improved from last season. 

You look at city this year, and we don’t have a settled team, look at @Davefevs weekly thread guess the team for evidence. What is our playing style?

Johnson has been here for several seasons now with the exception of  Korey, Marlon & Pack these are his players. Which players have improved under Johnson? Reid and who else ? 

I think Bielsa shows that if you get the right manager in, who coaches the players he has, a settled team you can achieve in this league

 

[daored]

3 hours ago, old_eastender said:

Just 9 wins in 42 league matches in 2018 isn't shit enough for you, geez.

Moyes the man for me.

I think this is the most worrying statistic. 

[Simez]

I'd take Mark Warburton at this moment in time, still out of work since Forest.

[Major Isewater]

14 hours ago, General Zod said:

Moyes all day long for me.  Good CV, genuine love for the club, great fit for both parties at this stage of his management career.

Moyes will no doubt be dead by the time LJ is sacked.

 I think LJ would have made an amazing coach alongside him as well.  I appreciate that this will never happen but that’s how LJ should have come into the club, working alongside an experienced guy.  We could have benefitted from his ability, new way of working on the training pitch and he would have got to learn from an experienced manager ready to take over at some point in the future.

 we manage the career paths of our young players with care so why not the same for a young potential manager instead of throwing him straight in at the deep end or is LJ too stubborn for that sort of help?

A small adjustment to your post. 

[AshtonGreat]

 

12 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Because he isn’t!

:laugh: I mean he doesn't look 55

[EnderMB]

For me, there is a clear choice, and one that would be a huge coup for the club.

Gerardo "Tata" Martino.

Yes, four years ago he was managing Barcelona, and a few years ago he was manager of the Argentina national team, but for the last year he has been the manager of Atlanta United in MLS, and he has recently stated that he won't be renewing his contract, making him available in January.

Getting him to come here would be a big ask, but let's remember that him going to Barcelona was largely a ploy to keep Messi happy, and that he wasn't exactly the obvious candidate at the time. He was picked for his playing style - a mixture of high-pressing and short-passing football, and a style that is highly attractive and sought after.

Most importantly, he's a Bielsa type in that he is unwavering in his beliefs in how football should be played, and that's what Lansdown needs. He needs a manager that is willing to tell him what needs to be done to achieve a certain level of success. Martino is also allegedly a fan of English football, and a big fan of building from the academy, so he's essentially what Lansdown wants in a manager.

[BS4 on Tour...]

12 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

:laugh: I mean he doesn't look 55

....because he isn’t 55 !!

[Alessandro]

9 hours ago, Superjack said:

I don't think for a minute that he would fee it as a step down. I wouldn't imagine that our current standing as a club would bother him in the slightest. 

What would is the constraints of the role and the extent of the hand tying I would guess. 

Well, firstly, as i've said already - a manager who has not managed out of the top flight for 15 + years (having managed several top top clubs) would see Bristol City, IMO, as a step down. If he didn't have history with us, I just can't see him considering it. Do you think he'd go to Brentford, for example, I don't. He wasn't even in the running there recently.

Constraints and hand tying is an interesting comment, what would be your examples? If you want to talk about constraints, just look at his last few jobs!!

At West Ham Moyes was keen to blood, and did, blood youth players - that's tick one. He's worked under a tight transfer budget at pretty much every club, bar United. Everton, Sunderland, West Ham were never big spenders under him. Tick two. 

So I think he has worked under similar conditions, just a league above - so doubt they would put him off. 

 

[Alessandro]

16 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

For me, there is a clear choice, and one that would be a huge coup for the club.

Gerardo "Tata" Martino.

Yes, four years ago he was managing Barcelona, and a few years ago he was manager of the Argentina national team, but for the last year he has been the manager of Atlanta United in MLS, and he has recently stated that he won't be renewing his contract, making him available in January.

Getting him to come here would be a big ask, but let's remember that him going to Barcelona was largely a ploy to keep Messi happy, and that he wasn't exactly the obvious candidate at the time. He was picked for his playing style - a mixture of high-pressing and short-passing football, and a style that is highly attractive and sought after.

Most importantly, he's a Bielsa type in that he is unwavering in his beliefs in how football should be played, and that's what Lansdown needs. He needs a manager that is willing to tell him what needs to be done to achieve a certain level of success. Martino is also allegedly a fan of English football, and a big fan of building from the academy, so he's essentially what Lansdown wants in a manager.

I rest my case.

Crazy example no.whatever - the next Mexico manager.

"FACEPALM" (can't find the emoji)

[lenred]

2 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I rest my case.

Crazy example no.whatever - the next Mexico manager.

"FACEPALM" (can't find the emoji)

Why is it crazy? It’s a suggestion with good detail as to why it may be feasible. Why do you think we are such an awful proposition for these Managers? You seem to have a real downer as to what we can offer. We need to be aiming high whenever the next appointment is made.

[BS2 Red]

11 hours ago, Alessandro said:

Some of the names people are talking about here are just beyond unrealistic.

Sorry but Jokanovic? NOT A CHANCE. This is a man with 2 championship promotions behind him - left Watford in the Prem over contract extension issues (I.E money money money) and was shortlisted by Chelsea after Conte. Seriously, anyone thinking we can get him, get it out your head now. His next job may be in the Championship, but it will be for big money and big resources. Bare in mind he is still being paid till next summer by Fulham IIRC so will bide his time.

Moyes? He’s not taken a job out of the top tier for 15 plus years. I just can’t see it. Another premier league job will come for him, someone like Southampton. He did show more effort to blood youngsters at West Ham than both Bilic and Big Sam to be fair. If it wasn’t for his history with us, not sure he’d even be in the discussion - does he retain any good feelings towards us?

Wilder?! FFS doesn’t even deserve an answer. 

What I also don’t understand is this attitude that ‘if we just pay them enough’ any manager will come here. A) We simply can’t afford to pay “whatever it takes” B) Very few managers, especially those you’ve mentioned I’m sure are not so desperate that they’ll take any job.

You need to think what the Bristol City job will be to them. Put yourself in their shoes.

A) A project - I.E you’ll need to commit time and patience to see results

or 

B) A stepping stone - I.E you’re a lower league or new manager and you want the experience/CV points in a club under a chairman who has historically shown patience and loyalty.

Think about that and then you’ll have an idea what kind of manager you’ll get. 

If you’re David Moyes or Jokanovic, would you take this job? And why? 

I think Moyes could be tempted, his stock is quite low at the moment and he’s looking for a way to restore his reputation. Getting City up into the Premier League would be a way of doing that.

I don’t think it’ll happen though. Moyes wouldn’t get the wage he’d want, the budget he’d want or the control that he’d want.

[Alessandro]

5 hours ago, real_bristol said:

Really enjoyed reading this realism. I don’t know your stance on LJ but are you suggesting that we need to give a manager time and do you think LJ has been given enough of it? 

Personally I think the answers to both of those questions are yes then no

I've spoken a lot about this for years now. My position has always been to give time to managers and continuity (which is difficult in football) is generally a good thing.

In answer to the second part of your question, I think LJ has had plenty of time. The youngest, longest serving manager in the country. 

It comes down to the opinion of his boss if it's 'enough' or not - what the club expects him to have achieved with that time given.

Next two games are massive IMO.

[Alessandro]

16 minutes ago, lenred said:

Why is it crazy? It’s a suggestion with good detail as to why it may be feasible. Why do you think we are such an awful proposition for these Managers? You seem to have a real downer as to what we can offer. We need to be aiming high whenever the next appointment is made.

When did I say we are an awful proposition? 

What did I say to put a downer on what we have to offer?

Read my posts first.

All i've said is be realistic about your suggestions. It is my opinion, that several of the names suggested, Jokanovic, Moyes and now the new manager of the Mexico national team, are not currently on our radar, or us there's.

For the right manager, this job, when it becomes available, would be a fantastic opportunity for someone. Just I highly doubt it will be those names mentioned - but I would be pleasantly surprised if it was. 

R.E your last comment about aiming high - i've said it already and i'll say it again - yes that's fine and all good and well, but it's the same as with buying new players. There are budgets and they have to be interested in coming or available.