Enough of all this Johnson out Rubbish

[keynshamred]

3 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Who said anything about anyone expecting us to be top six? I’ve said for a long while now that I just expect us to not be shit. 

The last time we played well was second half versus West Brom and that was only half a game. Since then; shit, shit, shit, shit, shit  

I genuinely can’t think of the last time we had a decent 90 minutes. Man Utd perhaps?

LJ lost Flint, Bryan and Reid. They’d have been a massive loss to anyone. However, firstly, they weren’t assets created by him - there is an argument that Reid might be, but he wasn’t brought to the club by Johnson and I suspect there was more than a smidge of luck in his transformation to striker rather than judgement.  Secondly, Johnson has had more than enough resources to replace them. More than any other manager by absolutely miles. 

The question now is, who else can by the next player sold on at a massive profit? I can pretty much guarantee you that it’ll be Lloyd Kelly - again - not a player brought in by Johnson. And having watched Lloyd I would expect that he’d have excelled under Stevie Wonder as coach. 

In short, we’re not progressing any longer under Johnson. The alarm bells are loud and clear on that. And I don’t see why we should be punished any further because of chance win at the worst team this league has seen in many years. 

So Johnson doesn't get any credit by you for making him into a ten million pound player? He saw in his ability and work rate, in which made him the player he has become. Your not giving Johnson any credit for bringing on and coaching the younger talent, ie Lloyd, Bryan, Morrell etc.

Regarding the budget he has had. The only player he has spent alot of money on is Fammy and he will prove to be a top player for us. Slow start this season but he will come good. Don't think the suspension has helped him but in the coming months will go on and get the goals required imo.

Regarding the team haven't played well in 90 minutes in this league. We have a new squad and have no given right to play well for a whole 90 minutes. Think some city fans don't realise how hard a league we are in. 5th best in the world and there are two teams out there trying to win games. Many have bigger and better squads with bigger and better budgets. We have had alot of games where we have very good spells and not taken our chances. I definitely think we need a new striker in the window. A poacher type, that will win us  these tight games.

Can you name me one game we have been thrashed this season? In this league they are all tight games and a top striker is what will win you those games. That win last night will hopefully build confidence in the squad now and we can go on and get some results. Let's not forget how many bad injuries we have had the last few seasons and now there coming back to full fitness.

Some city fans are just never happy!! We could be mid table in the prem and some would still bloody moan!! 

[Phileas Fogg]

@reddogkev I am interested to read any response you have for me, I broke my otib hiatus breifly for you of all people after all!

[reddogkev]

7 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Well no. When you’ve played shit for what’s pretty much 12 months and you play a team that look like a pub league team at best, I want to see us dominate. It was a chance to play good football and if we cannot play good football against Ipswich, we can’t play it against anyone. 

I’ve always said I just want us to not be shit. I want us to play with ‘identity’. Truth is, we as far from having an identity as we’ve ever been. 

It comes to something when I don’t want to watch my team play because I know exactly how they’ll play. Watching Bristol City has become a chore to me and I only watch now because I feel I have to. 

Thats where I am at under Johnson. 

12 months of playing shit?  Have I been in a coma for a year?  Of course there have been bad games during the year, we're a relatively small club in the Championship, but there have been plenty of quality games during that time.  Strange isn't it, I'm looking forward to Sunday, can't bloody wait.

[Super]

2 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Well no. When you’ve played shit for what’s pretty much 12 months and you play a team that look like a pub league team at best, I want to see us dominate. It was a chance to play good football and if we cannot play good football against Ipswich, we can’t play it against anyone. 

I’ve always said I just want us to not be shit. I want us to play with ‘identity’. Truth is, we as far from having an identity as we’ve ever been. 

It comes to something when I don’t want to watch my team play because I know exactly how they’ll play. Watching Bristol City has become a chore to me and I only watch now because I feel I have to. 

Thats where I am at under Johnson. 

I don't think we are shit. We are a mid table team a team that wins some then loses some. The main problem this season is the lack of attacking threat in a lot of games which obviously results in a painful watch. It's strange cause your post reminds me of many I have seen from Man United supporters recently.

[Northern Red]

Just now, reddogkev said:

12 months of playing shit?  Have I been in a coma for a year?  Of course there have been bad games during the year, we're a relatively small club in the Championship, but there have been plenty of quality games during that time.  Strange isn't it, I'm looking forward to Sunday, can't bloody wait.

Since January?

I've no axe to grind against LJ, but I'm struggling with that one I have to admit.

[reddogkev]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

@reddogkev I am interested to read any response you have for me, I broke my otib hiatus breifly for you of all people after all!

Fogg, I did indeed notice your absence! I'm just about to head out now for a few hours, you'll have to wait until I return home!

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, keynshamred said:

 So Johnson doesn't get any credit by you for making him into a ten million pound player? He saw in his ability and work rate, in which made him the player he has become. Your not giving Johnson any credit for bringing on and coaching the younger talent, ie Lloyd, Bryan, Morrell etc.

Regarding the budget he has had. The only player he has spent alot of money on is Fammy and he will prove to be a top player for us. Slow start this season but he will come good. Don't think the suspension has helped him but in the coming months will go on and get the goals required imo.

Regarding the team haven't played well in 90 minutes in this league. We have a new squad and have no given right to play well for a whole 90 minutes. Think some city fans don't realise how hard a league we are in. 5th best in the world and there are two teams out there trying to win games. Many have bigger and better squads with bigger and better budgets. We have had alot of games where we have very good spells and not taken our chances. I definitely think we need a new striker in the window. A poacher type, that will win us  these tight games.

Can you name me one game we have been thrashed this season? In this league they are all tight games and a top striker is what will win you those games. That win last night will hopefully build confidence in the squad now and we can go on and get some results. Let's not forget how many bad injuries we have had the last few seasons and now there coming back to full fitness.

Some city fans are just never happy!! We could be mid table in the prem and some would still bloody moan!! 

I think probably we could have a couple more points but nothing vast- Stoke and Reading spring to mind as games we could have got more, especially Stoke. In some respects Sheffield Wednesday with Kelly hitting the post and Wigan away simply because neither side was much good- more that neither side merited a win rather than neither side deserved a loss IMO. Then again, Rotherham we definitely could have lost and QPR result outstripped display. Think net total of couple more points probably about right but not much more than that.

[RedM]

26 minutes ago, keynshamred said:

Bloody good post. We sell our 3 best players and everyone expects us to be in the top 6. Deluded fools! If we finish anywhere between 10th and 16th we should all be happy. Think last night would have helped confidence and we have big players coming back to fitness. There is no reason why we can't go on a run of wins now. Always better against better teams so bring it on!!! 

I agree to a point, but when your owner publicly states we must finish higher, ‘do better’ I think his words were,  than last seasons 11th position I’m wondering what leeway ( no pun intended)  he has? Must do, should do, might do, try to do? What if he doesn’t? 

Yes he can argue that we have sold £30 of talent all first team regulars, yes we lost Korey for over half the season, I have stated that often enough myself. But the players we bought in were assured to be Championship ready to hit the ground running, players to fit into our style. Well to be honest I can’t decide what the style is, the said players on the whole aren’t holding down regular places, except Webster, and if they are not showing early form ( Weimann), although he does contribute he isn’t scoring.

This time last season we were 5th, soon to go 3rd and articifally buoyant because of the cup run. But if we are honest we haven’t got Premiership players, bar a couple maybe on our books right now, and sometimes they haven’t even looked good enough for the Championship.

 I think Lee has got through by knowing the right people and being clever. He probably does believe in looking a grass length etc and could explain in detail why it makes a difference. But if that is to the detriment of knowing which players work well together and which don’t that that’s all for nothing.

Maybe he is ahead of his time, but Bristol City for all their material wealth, the stadium, training ground etc always seem to be playing catch-up but never quite getting there. It’s not just an LJ thing, it’s been like this for decades. It’s just how we are and not going to change anytime soon.

[One BCFC]

Yes I love City but I still want him gone. One win changes nothing and even if we beat Millwall we all know we'll more than likely have this bad run again. The football may I add in the whole of 2018 has been shocking to watch.. Funny how fickle fans are when we win 1 game and everyone changes. The big picture is we were lucky really against a bad side haha

[keynshamred]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think probably we could have a couple more points but nothing vast- Stoke and Reading spring to mind as games we could have got more, especially Stoke. In some respects Sheffield Wednesday with Kelly hitting the post and Wigan away simply because neither side was much good- more that neither side merited a win rather than neither side deserved a loss IMO. Then again, Rotherham we definitely could have lost and QPR result outstripped display. Think net total of couple more points probably about right but not much more than that.

I would be more than happy with a few points than we have now. This squad is a mid table team and that is where Johnson has got us and we will finish, unless we buy a top striker in Jan. That is up to the club and where the finances lie. Can we expect much more with other teams having bigger budgets for transfers and wages. Along with parachute payments flooding in.

Tenth position would be a great achievement this season and an improvement. Something I think we can do with Johnson at the helm!!

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

52 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Obviously this is a classic RDK reaction thread and I know you're looking for bites, but I don't agree with your point and felt compelled to reply.

Clearly the macro factors you mention have to be factored in, of course losing Reid, Bryan and Flint and not being given the funds to replace them is a huge ask. Of course it's not ideal circumstances for a manager to achieve instant success.

The impression I get from the mood of the fans is that the concerns aren't just the form. It's the lack of identity in our play, the fact we look toothless at times, the soundbites that sound as if they may alienate players.. then the factor that Johnson is infamous for these streaks of form.

The other - and perhaps most worrying thing - is that it all feels a bit stale. People don't feel very excited about this season, i'm certainly not. I actually feel a bit apathetic about it - I've barely posted in months. I can live with mid-table - it's probably about right for a club of our level at the moment, but I just feel a bit bored.

I also like Johnson, I think he's a good man and would love him to succeed. I just don't really have faith in him at the moment - all that nonsense about players 'needing a cuddle' - it just grates. I can't think how on earth that would be motivational or reassuring to professional athletes.

I question whether people will take him seriously as a leader too; I see the need for technology in our training and am glad we're embracing it but I do wonder if he over-complicates and confuses the players. Some of the stuff he comes out with I can imagine the players eyes just glazing over.

I hope he and the team can change my mind, but I just have lots of doubts at the moment. I get the impression this is a view shared by lots of people, even those that fundamentally like Johnson.

 

This is a stand out post, not only for it's rarity in recent times, but because iirc. you argued long and hard - notably with me - in LJ's favour not only the last time he was seriously questioned but you'd even been an enthusiastic advocate of him taking over in the first place when some fans ( very much including me) were incredulous at the prospect, as bizarre and unlikely as it seemed at the time.

LJ's inconsistency and long losing streaks were well known at his previous clubs at a lower level long before he came to City, so it was entirely predictable they would continue here, and pointing these out in detail were central to my arguments against him being given the job.

Although there were many, many other reasons.

In fact nothing has come as a surprise. An inexperienced and erratic manager at L1 level, with no previous success to speak of, rewarded with the City position for apparently no other reason than he talked a good game and the owner and his son had long planned it, was never likely to either succeed, or meet with the the approval of the fans.

To see one of LJ's biggest advocates reduced to posting the above is in some ways sad, but also to your credit.

Unfortunately afaic. the current state of affairs at AG under LJ - stagnation at best, and long term unrest amongst the fans - was always entirely predictable.

[Red Army 75]

1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

I wasn't strong enough with my thread a few days ago, now I will be.  I can't stand all this Johnson Out Crap.

The man is the Bristol City manager and a former player, who cares about the club; he deserves more respect and class then a few on here are showing him.

Leave the man alone and support the City.  Get down there on Sunday and cheer the lads to (hopefully) another win.

I'm not a happy clapper, I just honestly feel LJ is doing a good job in a bloody difficult league, where he is having his hands tied a bit by SL and the lack of spending power / sales of top assets.

I'm in bullish mood today, so if anyone wants to row about LJ, let's ave it on here!

[RedM]

14 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Exactly, imagine how well we'd be doing this season if we had kept Bobby Reid, the one man we couldn't replace.  I'm sure the board could have tempted him stay if they had really wanted to, but the ten million was too difficult to turn down for our money men.  Add Reid to this team and we could be 5th in the table (provided he maintained his incredible finishing of last season).

It was the lure of the Premiership that got him. He wanted to stay close to home, if Cardiff hadn’t been promoted I doubt if he would have moved so easily. But right from Easter he said he wasn’t going to be here, he just got lucky local Cardiff came for him. 

[Fuber]

1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

,Where he is having his hands tied a bit by SL and the lack of spending power / sales of top assets.

His hands are tied by FFP. Not SL.

At the end of the day LJ has spunked £30m on players worse than the ones already at the club's over his three years in charge.

Baker, Djuric, Engvall, Tomlin, Magnússon, Wright, Baker, Pisano, Golbourne, and many, many others. It all adds up.

"Hand tied by SL". Gimme a break Reddog, I usually find your comments quite fair, but that's quite wide of the mark.

[Kingswoodactor]

57 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Please explain Sheffield Utd with less resources, cheaper players, less overall budget and wages and " a former player, who cares about the club".

Let's not mention Bournemouth either... 

[Fordy62]

16 minutes ago, Super said:

I don't think we are shit. We are a mid table team a team that wins some then loses some. The main problem this season is the lack of attacking threat in a lot of games which obviously results in a painful watch. It's strange cause your post reminds me of many I have seen from Man United supporters recently.

I’m not surprised. They’re playing rubbish football too. 

I dread to think how good they could be with that squad, but with anyone else in charge. 

Maybe they’d like Lee Johnson?

[...]

1 hour ago, Eastendboy1965 said:

Simple - their owner wants PL, ours doesn't. 

Correct.

[Phileas Fogg]

11 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

This is a stand out post, not only for it's rarity in recent times, but because iirc. you argued long and hard - notably with me - in LJ's favour not only the last time he was seriously questioned but you'd even been an enthusiastic advocate of him taking over in the first place when some fans ( very much including me) were incredulous at the prospect, as bizarre and unlikely as it seemed at the time.

I thought at the time he was a fairly progressive and exciting appointment. I wouldn't necessarily have appointed him when we did, but I always suspected he'd be our manager at some stage. I thought Lansdown had been grooming him for the role for years and, without trawling back to my posts from Feb of 2016, suspected we might go for him rather than personally suggesting 'we should go for Lee Johnson'.

[...]

6 minutes ago, ReggyRed said:

Would rather have 'fans' like you OUT.

A new batch of fans depending on how crap the manager is, and if they dare to have an opinion?

Has this been tried in football before?

[Alessandro]

22 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Fogg, I did indeed notice your absence! I'm just about to head out now for a few hours, you'll have to wait until I return home!

You tease!

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, Fuber said:

His hands are tied by FFP. Not SL.

At the end of the day LJ has spunked £30m on players worse than the ones already at the club's over his three years in charge.

Baker, Djuric, Engvall, Tomlin, Magnússon, Wright, Baker, Pisano, Golbourne, and many, many others. It all adds up.

"Hand tied by SL". Gimme a break Reddog, I usually find your comments quite fair, but that's quite wide of the mark.

Agree with the 2 bits bolded to a point. It all adds up and such a churn of players is highly expensive for sure. FFP will hold us back in January also.

Think there was more to get out of a number of said players though- Wright did a job at RB and did well at Preston so can't be a dud, Baker was great for a while and then...declined- anything to do with LJ? Magnússon was not brilliant but also managed poorly (like many others), Djuric had injuries playing a part, useful squad option. Even Pisano as a squad filler didn't start too badly- injuries and LJ again can't have helped.

It's one thing to say that 'Oh he signed crap players' but have quite a few players- decent number of those listed plus quite a few more, not declined on his watch after promising or even passable starts?

Only out and out duds in that list I think were Golbourne and Engvall- Tomlin too but his attitude the big issue as opposed to ability- and let's not forget he had the great loan spell hence the clamour to sign him.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree with the 2 bits bolded to a point. It all adds up and such a churn of players is highly expensive for sure. FFP will hold us back in January also.

Think there was more to get out of a number of said players though- Wright did a job at RB and did well at Preston so can't be a dud, Baker was great for a while and then...declined- anything to do with LJ? Magnússon was not brilliant but also managed poorly (like many others), Djuric had injuries playing a part, useful squad option. Even Pisano as a squad filler didn't start too badly- injuries and LJ again can't have helped.

It's one thing to say that 'Oh he signed crap players' but have quite a few players- decent number of those listed plus quite a few more, not declined under his watch after promising or even passable starts?

Only out and out duds in that list were Golbourne and Engvall- Tomlin too but his attitude the big issue as opposed to ability- and let's not forget he had the great loan spell hence the clamour to sign him.

Scott Golbourne was initially signed before Lee Johnson arrived, same time as Tomlin, wasn't he?  From what I remember, in 2015/16 he was an important part of our recovery.

[phantom]

26 minutes ago, Kingswoodactor said:

Let's not mention Bournemouth either... 

With a Russian Billionairre in charge

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Scott Golbourne was initially signed before Lee Johnson arrived, same time as Tomlin, wasn't he?  From what I remember, in 2015/16 he was an important part of our recovery.

Good memory- had forgotten about that! Was Matthews signed in that same period? Did quite well on loan from memory, then we signed him again in 16/17 hoping for a continuation...

Just now, phantom said:

With a Russian Billionairre in charge

At a time with vastly different FFP rules too.

[kevster3]

1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

I wasn't strong enough with my thread a few days ago, now I will be.  I can't stand all this Johnson Out Crap.

The man is the Bristol City manager and a former player, who cares about the club; he deserves more respect and class then a few on here are showing him.

Leave the man alone and support the City.  Get down there on Sunday and cheer the lads to (hopefully) another win.

I'm not a happy clapper, I just honestly feel LJ is doing a good job in a bloody difficult league, where he is having his hands tied a bit by SL and the lack of spending power / sales of top assets.

I'm in bullish mood today, so if anyone wants to row about LJ, let's ave it on here!

[marmite]

40 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

12 months of playing shit?  Have I been in a coma for a year?  Of course there have been bad games during the year, we're a relatively small club in the Championship, but there have been plenty of quality games during that time.  Strange isn't it, I'm looking forward to Sunday, can't bloody wait.

Ive followed this thread with an open mind but that statement Kev beggars belief. I admit I haven't watched them all but I certainly haven't seen "plenty" of quality games. We have bright periods during the odd game but generally the football for almost 12 months has been dire. I am very much with Fordy62 on this one.

[Bar BS3]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

Kev,

We’re playing like cat shit. The form of the last few games will see us in the relegation mix. I don’t think he’s doing a good job. 

And the over reaction to beating relegation certainties Ipswich is baffling to me. 

I’d be so fickle to change my based on last night. 

Of course I wanted Lee to do well. I want all of our managers to do well. But he’s not doing well and I want him gone for the good of the club. 

You honestly, seriously, in a division as tough as this, where far bigger/richer clubs than us are around, or below, us... where we are closer to the play offs than the relegation zone... you genuinely feel that is just cause for demanding that our manager be replaced...? 

[Alessandro]

15 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

This is a stand out post, not only for it's rarity in recent times, but because iirc. you argued long and hard - notably with me - in LJ's favour not only the last time he was seriously questioned but you'd even been an enthusiastic advocate of him taking over in the first place when some fans ( very much including me) were incredulous at the prospect, as bizarre and unlikely as it seemed at the time.

LJ's inconsistency and long losing streaks were well known at his previous clubs at a lower level long before he came to City, so it was entirely predictable they would continue here, and pointing these out in detail were central to my arguments against him being given the job.

Although there were many, many other reasons.

In fact nothing has come as a surprise. An inexperienced and erratic manager at L1 level, with no previous success to speak of, rewarded with the City position for apparently no other reason than he talked a good game and the owner and his son had long planned it, was never likely to either succeed, or meet with the the approval of the fans.

To see one of LJ's biggest advocates reduced to posting the above is in some ways sad, but also to your credit.

Unfortunately afaic. the current state of affairs at AG under LJ - stagnation at best, and long term unrest amongst the fans - was always entirely predictable.

I've been thinking about this a lot recently, as i've been an advocate of LJ. 

I'll start this post by saying - he hasn't been sacked yet. A win against Millwall and we could be back in the top 10, which has us back 'on, or even above (below if you play golf) par' and the circus continues....

But i'll say this - hindsight is a wonderful thing - I know you and others had stayed strong in your views about LJ, fair play to you. But you couldn't have predicted the outcome of his time here, even when you talk about his past and the way in which he was appointed.

What do Arsene Wenger, Rafa Benitez and Antonio Conte have in common - well one (of a few things I guess) is they all suffered relegations in their early years of management. Either Rafa or Arsene had 2 quickly, IIRC. Something LJ has, despite the negativity, not suffered yet. If they hadn't been given another chance on the back of that, 3 very successful careers might not have happened. Just a reference to hindsight.

(This bit isn't just directed at you specifically, but i've read elsewhere too) If @Phileas Fogg or myself, or anyone else who have supported LJ now believes he has gone as far as he can, or should be sacked - it doesn't mean we have come round to other's way of thinking (seen the light) it might just might mean, up to now, league positions, progress, other factors, haven't warranted his sacking, in their opinion. In football things can change very quickly, that isn't "sad" as you put it. 

You say that LJ was never likely to and hasn't succeeded....well i'm sorry, but in my opinion he has succeeded in many ways. He succeeded in a way that one of our best recent managers, SC couldn't. He staved off relegation, that was a success. He has lead us to successive higher placed finishes in the league. He led us to our best showing in the league cup. These are facts. I won't start on the other ways, on and off the pitch he may have been a success, developing and blooding youngsters, for example, as that could be classed as an opinion.

So if and when I, or someone else, believes LJ should be sacked, it doesn't mean that for a second that they should come grovelling to the "know it all's" to apologise because he should never have been appointed in the first place, because I still stand by the opinion that that statement is wrong.

[Phileas Fogg]

Good post @Alessandro, exactly my thoughts. 

 

[1bristolcity]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

Kev,

We’re playing like cat shit. The form of the last few games will see us in the relegation mix. I don’t think he’s doing a good job. 

And the over reaction to beating relegation certainties Ipswich is baffling to me. 

I’d be so fickle to change my based on last night. 

Of course I wanted Lee to do well. I want all of our managers to do well. But he’s not doing well and I want him gone for the good of the club. 

Gone for who?

I don't see an overreaction to a win, in fact it's just the opposite, just relief we stopped the rot.

Where did you expect us to be now after selling our three best players ?

You say he is not doing well, it really is that the players, and crucially Pack is off form, combined with Smith and Frankie injured he is lacking leaders on the pitch. It's a young squad littered with some good footballers, surely sacking him would make things worse I believe.