Satisfied With Midtable ?

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Happy with mid table, the club is moving forward off the field on all fronts.

On the field ? We're not moving forward, we're churning over players, a few academy players may well come through like Kelly and the fees received will help subsidise the losses - and buy yet more one's for the future. But under LJ we're just not building anything. We'll stay up I'm sure, sign yet more players in Jan and the summer , more players will be sold....in 2 years we'll be up to 60 or 70 signings, LJ will still be chopping and changing and coming out with cringworthy phrases like. Giving them a cuddle.

Basically LJ is a fraud who is making it up as he goes, as Warnock astutely observed he talkes a good game. We are never going to develop to the next level under LJ..

another 2yrs...... of "sustainability"  

[cidercity1987]

Not 'happy' in midtable and dont buy the we are a small club argument. We have been unsuccessful in the past but we now have the crowds stadium and finances to push on, as the best club in the 6th city should.

However I also think we have at least as much chance as pushing on with LJ at the helm as anyone else, so he stays imo.

There is no reason for us to see League One in the next 50 years (look at the size of clubs who havent in the last 50, like Palace). So if we were close to relegation LJ goes. Until then its great to see this as a long term project with peaks and troughs.

[Alessandro]

30 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I think there are five clubs currently in the championship who haven’t been in the premier league. Bournemouth didn’t spend anything significant on a player in the season before they got promoted to the premier league....someone posted a summary of their signings on here and only one was over £1m and the majority of the others were less than £500k. But I totally agree with your last sentence - It doesn’t really matter what the ambitions of the fans are....the ambitions and objectives of the owner and his direct employees are the ones that count because they ain’t gonna make any decisions based on what they may have read on OTIB or Twitter or what they hear at a fans’ forum meeting etc....

It is a bit of a sad state of affairs - but that's the life of a football fan I guess. I've always been pragmatic about it, others take it much more personally and to heart, neither are right or wrong. 

I totally understand a lot of the arguments made by the Jouters, and the Lansdoubters. Does LJ have that spark to make something special happen here? Certainly not at the moment if ever. Does SL make bad decisions, of course he does and will no doubt continue to. Has made some shocking calls on managers. But as i've said before, there is no steadfast formula for football, or football managers, otherwise everyone would get it right, all the time.

SL has clearly decided he won't pour endless cash into City, even if he could. He has his way of doing things and I respect the majority of the plan that is (finally) in place. That's not me saying it will work mind. One thing that is for sure, despite the mistakes, a lot of good has happened and the club is moving forwards. SL clearly cares about the club and is clearly pumping far more in than he takes out, and that cannot be said for every football chairperson out there. And that, is not me saying, as long as he's trying and cares that's enough either.

Ultimately, until someone else comes along with the cash to take us in a different direction, we'll be doing things his way. As you say, none of us are going to make a difference on here! 

[BS4 on Tour...]

9 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

It is a bit of a sad state of affairs - but that's the life of a football fan I guess. I've always been pragmatic about it, others take it much more personally and to heart, neither are right or wrong. 

I totally understand a lot of the arguments made by the Jouters, and the Lansdoubters. Does LJ have that spark to make something special happen here? Certainly not at the moment if ever. Does SL make bad decisions, of course he does and will no doubt continue to. Has made some shocking calls on managers. But as i've said before, there is no steadfast formula for football, or football managers, otherwise everyone would get it right, all the time.

SL has clearly decided he won't pour endless cash into City, even if he could. He has his way of doing things and I respect the majority of the plan that is (finally) in place. That's not me saying it will work mind. One thing that is for sure, despite the mistakes, a lot of good has happened and the club is moving forwards. SL clearly cares about the club and is clearly pumping far more in than he takes out, and that cannot be said for every football chairperson out there. And that, is not me saying, as long as he's trying and cares that's enough either.

Ultimately, until someone else comes along with the cash to take us in a different direction, we'll be doing things his way. As you say, none of us are going to make a difference on here! 

“Like”

[Dolman_Stand]

Think its worth remembering Huddersfield are the exception not the rule, thye took full advantage of their one good season in every five and are making a good fist of staying in the Prem.

Mid-table is about where we belong in terms of natural pecking order when you consider the other sides in the Championship

[Unan]

We will never make the premier league through ‘luck’.

”Luck is what happens when opportunity meets preparation.”

 

 

[AppyDAZE]

We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at mid-table

Oscar Wilde

[Keepers Ball]

Mid table?

Not a chance.

And for those that respond with "Look where we were [insert year]" or " we could be worse off. Look at [insert team] let me tell you something my Mum used to say to me when i was a young lad

"Never look below you. Always look above"

She was right

[EmissionImpossible]

3 hours ago, wood_red said:

Tough division to get out of, and I honestly don't see why people think we should be challenging anywhere near the top with where we are overall at the moment. I would happily take mid table and some decent entertaining football (even with mixed results), then build on it with a couple of upgrades here and there and become a solid top 10 side, then have a bit more of a go at it. My worry is we won't, and just hope to keep bringing through the youngsters and up being a club all about making money without ever going to the Prem.

This, a hundred times this!

[CodeRed]

1 hour ago, Keepers Ball said:

Mid table?

Not a chance.

And for those that respond with "Look where we were [insert year]" or " we could be worse off. Look at [insert team] let me tell you something my Mum used to say to me when i was a young lad

"Never look below you. Always look above"

She was right

Or some similar advice

"Never look down"

 

Especially when getting a blow job from the mother-in-law.

[cider-manc]

Pretty much every team promoted in recent years has breached ffp or benefited from parachute payments - The exception being huddersfield. The football league has finally realised this and the rules are getting tighter. SL is trying to stick to those rules. Don't forget SL also chucked money at it previously... And it didn’t work.

As for huddersfield competing with bigger local clubs.... Like most yorkshire towns the locals are fiercely proud of their home town club and they also benefited from loan players from a couple of these bigger clubs during their promotion season- In fact two of their stand out players in mooy and ward came from liverpool and manchester City. 

I don't want to settle for midtable- But i'm realistic about the current squad we have. I also don't understand why some of our fans seem to think we have some sort of right to be doing well in this league. Compared to most of the divison we are historically small fry.

 

[Cider red]

All about perspective! Better than being bottom of league 1 for Sure. Can we do better; yes; but could do a lot worse

[bcfcredandwhite]

As I’ve posted many times before; I’ve seen too much of League 1 (Div 3) to be angry with our current mid-table position. That does NOT mean I don’t have ambition for our club - I want to see us give the Prem a shot some time before I shuffle off, but the lure of a basement battle in the Prem and funny kickoff times isn’t worth the gamble on our Championship status for me. That’s why, for now, I’m with the ‘LJ In’ brigade. Stability for me is more important than ‘double or quits’ gamble on a new manager right now  

My opinion is purely based on our league position,  so if we enter the relegation zone then the gamble would be worth it, but right now it’s not.  

[Merrick's Marvels]

3 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Not 'happy' in midtable and dont buy the we are a small club argument. We have been unsuccessful in the past but we now have the crowds stadium and finances to push on, as the best club in the 6th city should.

No we don't have the finances to "push on". The exact opposite is the case.

Did you notice our last set of FFP results? We came very close to exceeding the maximum allowable losses.

Do you understand why we sold over £20M worth of player in the summer? Because without doing so we would almost certainly have failed the next FFP test.

In the meantime expenditure (wages) will continue to rise, income (crowds) will likely stagnate, and there's no sign of another £20M worth of assets to flog to re-dress the imbalance.

Which is why, in case you still weren't paying attention, our management recently admitted that the latest scouting targets are cheap as chips League One players, ie a boy, literally, playing for Sunderland whose scored a goal or two.

So where you get the idea we can splash the cash to make progress is beyond me.

[red panda]

5 hours ago, wood_red said:

Tough division to get out of, and I honestly don't see why people think we should be challenging anywhere near the top with where we are overall at the moment. I would happily take mid table and some decent entertaining football (even with mixed results), then build on it with a couple of upgrades here and there and become a solid top 10 side, then have a bit more of a go at it. My worry is we won't, and just hope to keep bringing through the youngsters and up being a club all about making money without ever going to the Prem.

Careful!!!  It's very easy to get out of this division.  Just ask Sunderland 

[swampy]

Division 3 would be better than mid-table Division 2.  A derby with Rovers (assuming .... yes, I know).  Maybe Newport and Exeter.  Possibly Plymouth.  A friend recently told me that City are now a 'brand' with all that entails.  I get that .... I prefer real grounds with terraces and tickets that are not a rip off ... then again I am old (64).

 

[TheCulturalBomb]

14 hours ago, Robbored said:

10th would do me - progress on last season.

After the first half of last season toying in the top 6 and even top 3 for a while, the latter half of the season we were failing and underperforming.. This season is just a continuation of last season. The first half proved we have the ability.

[ScottishRed]

16 hours ago, marcofisher said:

If you had offered mid table after selling Bryan, Reid and Flint in the summer I'm sure most would have accepted it. We still have a very young squad, they aren't all just going to become top level players overnight with a fair few new players coming this season and then players like Eliasson only really having his proper first seasons now. We now have players brought in on longer contracts hopefully if we can get to a mid table finish for this season add some quality in the summer with none of our bigger names leaving we will be in a much better position for next year. 

 

We are still on the right track, even if results or performances haven't been spectacular, the hub of players we have should only improve. 

Oh please - not the 'very young squad' myth again - that is simply not true, as was discussed on here earlier this week.

And I am not sure about the longer contract points relevance?

We get an offer that's acceptable - we sell the player, his contract could be for 10 years, he still gets sold - that is the plan.

 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Robbored said:

10th would do me - progress on last season.

I would rather see us finish 16th with some entertaining stuff than what I have watched recently. Progress for me would be at least trying to play as we did at the start of last season (and the odd parts this season) after selling our best players and having an identity of how we play. We never know what we are going to get with the constant chopping and changing every game. 

[robin_unreliant]

17 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I deliberately posted on here at the start of the summer that I wanted a year of consolidation between eighth and fifteenth. A season in which we could give more Academy boys some game time at Championship level, not under pressure for play offs and relegation.

We need a WDDL sequence throughout the season. Not this boom and especially the bust where we go a quarter of the season for eleven points out of thirty six that sends us ten places down the league.

I think people might be more relaxed about LLLL if we hadn't previously seen LJ achieve LLLLLLLL.

I would consider mid-table a reasonable outcome this season. However when we start one of those runs Lee's track record scares the bejezus out of me.

I know the players have changed and past performance is not an indicator of future results, but jeez I can't help thinking it will be.

So I understand why the meltdown starts as I can feel the panic myself.

[HitchinRed]

Let’s face it, we have a mid table championship team at best, so yes, we should be satisfied with a mid table finish (just how many of our first team would be regular starters at an established premiership club?).

The other question to ask is whether you are satisfied you get value for money from supporting your club. At times we have over performed, and at times we have under performed, but generally speaking I don’t think it’s too bad.

if you’re still not satisfied, then you need to decide what to do about it. I’m not sure if you’re in a position to invest £100m in the squad, but I can’t see many other people queuing up to do this. To be honest, I really can’t see that calling for the manager to be sacked will help either (I’m not getting into whether he deserves the sack, I just can’t see us getting anyone else that will do significantly better - see my point about further investment needed in the team).

The only other thing I can think of what you can do to improve your satisfaction when watching football is to start supporting Manchester City. 

Like it or not, if you’re going to continue supporting Bristol City, we’re likely to be a mid Championship side for some time to come (or worse).

[marcofisher]

8 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

Oh please - not the 'very young squad' myth again - that is simply not true, as was discussed on here earlier this week.

And I am not sure about the longer contract points relevance?

We get an offer that's acceptable - we sell the player, his contract could be for 10 years, he still gets sold - that is the plan.

 

Eliasson- 22

O'dowda-23

Walsh-20

Brownhill-22

Kelly-20

Webster-23

Fammy - 25

Eisa-24

Adelakuun-22

O'Leary- 22

From our four players 30 years old and over, only 2 have featured that being Maenpaa who looks more of a stop gap than anything, and Pisano who is by no means a regular.

All the rest of our regulars (Weimann, Pato, Pack, Smith, Hunt, Baker, Wright, Taylor, Watkins) are all between 26 or 28 years old so technically should be entering their prime, some of whom have been here a few years now and more than have merited the price we have paid for them bar perhaps Baker, but he is still relatively young for a centre half. Pack has been out of form recently but you can't deny what an investment he has been at 80k. Some of these won't progress and will probably be released or sold on at a cut price deal, which quite often is what we purchased them for. 

We don't really have an outfield player who plays regular that is 29 years old or older.

I would consider that a young squad. 

Longer contracts means that we are less likely to be forced into a sale and they are less likely to be targets for other clubs who know that we are not under obligation to see them. 

 

[Hampshire Red]

Wow what a thread of quality replies from people who clearly watch the first team. I cant believe the 'moaning minnies' havent yet jumped on, wanting us to be top, slagging the manager if we're not top 6 etc etc with all their usual boring stuff.

I think its a good question and whilst there's no right answer, we all have our own realistic expectations; mine is 9th as an improvement in the league over last season and an FA Cup run or a really entertaining end to the season with some exciting individual performances (ideally from our youngsters) eg Kelly, Morrell and others currently on the sidelines. We wont need to be a selling club next summer and indeed we may even be able to buy or promote exciting new names to the first team.

0 or 1 point tomorrow keeps us in 14th and a win takes us up 3 places - now that's why i look forward to going to tomorrow. CoYRs

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, marcofisher said:

Eliasson- 22

O'dowda-23

Walsh-20

Brownhill-22

Kelly-20

Webster-23

Fammy - 25

Eisa-24

Adelakuun-22

O'Leary- 22

From our four players 30 years old and over, only 2 have featured that being Maenpaa who looks more of a stop gap than anything, and Pisano who is by no means a regular.

All the rest of our regulars (Weimann, Pato, Pack, Smith, Hunt, Baker, Wright, Taylor, Watkins) are all between 26 or 28 years old so technically should be entering their prime, some of whom have been here a few years now and more than have merited the price we have paid for them bar perhaps Baker, but he is still relatively young for a centre half. Pack has been out of form recently but you can't deny what an investment he has been at 80k. Some of these won't progress and will probably be released or sold on at a cut price deal, which quite often is what we purchased them for. 

We don't really have an outfield player who plays regular that is 29 years old or older.

I would consider that a young squad. 

Longer contracts means that we are less likely to be forced into a sale and they are less likely to be targets for other clubs who know that we are not under obligation to see them. 

 

If the relative youth of the team or squad is a regular and key obstacle to us winning games and being higher in the table, I've got this genius idea/suggestion/answer for LJ and MA that can overcome this. I will take it to the next fans forum, and put it to them....

[sh1t_ref_again]

On 30/11/2018 at 13:57, longyears said:

Please explain why we should be. 

Please explain why we should be dissatisfied with mid table and how we have a right to expect premier league football just because Huddersfield have, over the rest of the clubs in this division, many of whom are much more established at this level and enjoying parachute payments.

Its not that long ago we were in the same division as the gas, but look at the 2 clubs now and see who has progressed?

[bristolcitysweden]

I'll take a mid table position without doubt although the league is very poor. A pity we are as well.

[ScottishRed]

2 hours ago, marcofisher said:

Eliasson- 22

O'dowda-23

Walsh-20

Brownhill-22

Kelly-20

Webster-23

Fammy - 25

Eisa-24

Adelakuun-22

O'Leary- 22

From our four players 30 years old and over, only 2 have featured that being Maenpaa who looks more of a stop gap than anything, and Pisano who is by no means a regular.

All the rest of our regulars (Weimann, Pato, Pack, Smith, Hunt, Baker, Wright, Taylor, Watkins) are all between 26 or 28 years old so technically should be entering their prime, some of whom have been here a few years now and more than have merited the price we have paid for them bar perhaps Baker, but he is still relatively young for a centre half. Pack has been out of form recently but you can't deny what an investment he has been at 80k. Some of these won't progress and will probably be released or sold on at a cut price deal, which quite often is what we purchased them for. 

We don't really have an outfield player who plays regular that is 29 years old or older.

I would consider that a young squad. 

Longer contracts means that we are less likely to be forced into a sale and they are less likely to be targets for other clubs who know that we are not under obligation to see them. 

 

Can't agree, in football terms you cannot classify any player over 25, as young , which the majority of the starters this year have been.

" Being forced into a sale" - there is no forcing go on on,the club WANT sell - that is the model.

Sell big, buy small and then hope those players value increases. Add in some graduates from the academy that can be sold and there it is - our philosophy.

[marcofisher]

2 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Can't agree, in football terms you cannot classify any player over 25, as young , which the majority of the starters this year have been.

" Being forced into a sale" - there is no forcing go on on,the club WANT sell - that is the model.

Sell big, buy small and then hope those players value increases. Add in some graduates from the academy that can be sold and there it is - our philosophy.

I didn’t say any player over 25 was young, I said they were into their prime years. And at least half of the players under 25 I listed above are first team regulars.

Quite right, but having players on longer contracts means you can get the best value for the sale of players rather than them having 1 year left on their contract. 

[Garland-sweden]

At the moment, and what we have seen so far midtable is ok. Think and hope we will be better. LJ find his starting eleven, Famara scores and Paterson in form. Walsh, Adelakunde have not played for a long time. Hopefully Weimann scores again and Pack will be in form. Esia? Taylor? The squad is large and ok. Odowda I forgotten. We started well and had some luck, hope our bad runs are over. The win in Ipswich was very important, if we win tomorrow it will be calm and we can look upwards the table. Mäenpää is doing ok but the second goal vs Ipswich think he should have saved. Better than 11 place is progress. COYR!!!

[Davefevs]

40 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Can't agree, in football terms you cannot classify any player over 25, as young , which the majority of the starters this year have been.

" Being forced into a sale" - there is no forcing go on on,the club WANT sell - that is the model.

Sell big, buy small and then hope those players value increases. Add in some graduates from the academy that can be sold and there it is - our philosophy.

We have 19th oldest / 6th youngest squad based on minutes played (up to mid Oct), average 26.0 years.

The question is how relevant is Boro’s 2.8 additional years versus Brentford’s 1.7 year less?