Dear SL

[Dolman Block B]

23 hours ago, Badger08 said:

Shame. But if you aren't being entertained. 

 

Not shame

Common sense. Current situation is dire. 

 

Many many more more fans feel the same 

 

Myself included 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Oi Badger.

Never mind shame on me. I’m entitled to that opinion and I’ll stick to it thanks.

Tell me though. You mentioned naivety on your part in an earlier post.

Did @Loon plage post explain things better than mine. Bristol City FOOTBALL CLUB no longer owns Ashton Gate. Through a number of limited companies - some offshore - Lansdown does.

You ok with that? Do you now get one of my points?

It’s a really simple concept. Lansdown owns something that was once owned by Bristol City.

I don’t give a flying **** about Man City or any other club. This might well be “the model” for football nowadays but it don’t make it right.

Ashton Gate is now simply a venue that hosts activities - of which football is now one of several.

Jesus. You can even see Muse now if you fancy it. Along with Take That and the Spice Girls.

Tell me. Where’s the benefit to anyone other than Lansdown in doing that? Unless Gary Barlow or Sporty are going to play up front then I’m struggling.

You ask why Lansdown invests in racing drivers and basketball. Simples. To appeal to another sporting sector who will buy tickets to fill whatever stadium he wants to put those events on in.

Lansdown rode the Ashton Vale Trojan Horse into BS3 a long time ago.

First and foremost an investor. A sportsman or supporter of BCFC he ain’t.

If he was ask yourself this. Ever seen him many moons ago stood by your side on the terraces with it pissing down?

No. Thought not 

Think we will have to agree to disagree on this.

[spudski]

You turn down joining this lot...and all of a sudden getting anything done or approved in Bristol that's significant is nigh on impossible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Merchant_Venturers

[spudski]

2 hours ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Oi Badger.

Never mind shame on me. I’m entitled to that opinion and I’ll stick to it thanks.

Tell me though. You mentioned naivety on your part in an earlier post.

Did @Loon plage post explain things better than mine. Bristol City FOOTBALL CLUB no longer owns Ashton Gate. Through a number of limited companies - some offshore - Lansdown does.

You ok with that? Do you now get one of my points?

It’s a really simple concept. Lansdown owns something that was once owned by Bristol City.

I don’t give a flying **** about Man City or any other club. This might well be “the model” for football nowadays but it don’t make it right.

Ashton Gate is now simply a venue that hosts activities - of which football is now one of several.

Jesus. You can even see Muse now if you fancy it. Along with Take That and the Spice Girls.

Tell me. Where’s the benefit to anyone other than Lansdown in doing that? Unless Gary Barlow or Sporty are going to play up front then I’m struggling.

You ask why Lansdown invests in racing drivers and basketball. Simples. To appeal to another sporting sector who will buy tickets to fill whatever stadium he wants to put those events on in.

Lansdown rode the Ashton Vale Trojan Horse into BS3 a long time ago.

First and foremost an investor. A sportsman or supporter of BCFC he ain’t.

If he was ask yourself this. Ever seen him many moons ago stood by your side on the terraces with it pissing down?

No. Thought not 

3. What is covered by FFP?

Clubs need to balance football-related expenditure - transfers and wages - with television and ticket income, plus revenues raised by their commercial departments. Money spent on stadiums, training facilities, youth development or community projects is exempt.

[BigAl&Toby]

10 minutes ago, spudski said:

3. What is covered by FFP?

Clubs need to balance football-related expenditure - transfers and wages - with television and ticket income, plus revenues raised by their commercial departments. Money spent on stadiums, training facilities, youth development or community projects is exempt.

Yep. 

And your point is what? I’m happy to debate FFP and all of that.

 

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, spudski said:

3. What is covered by FFP?

Clubs need to balance football-related expenditure - transfers and wages - with television and ticket income, plus revenues raised by their commercial departments. Money spent on stadiums, training facilities, youth development or community projects is exempt.

Not trying to be facetious, but I'm not sure what angle you’re posting this from?

[spudski]

1 minute ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Yep. 

And your point is what? I’m happy to debate FFP and all of that.

 

 

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Not trying to be facetious, but I'm not sure what angle you’re posting this from?

Mention of Muse...spice girls etc.

[firstdivision]

On 05/12/2018 at 19:49, Big Red Rich said:

Join the club mate. It isn't just this season for me, it's been going on for years now, pretty much since LJ has been in charge, but it's not just on the pitch. Still, you've got people telling you that you arnt a true fan because if you were you should suck up whatever is given to you for your £1000 a year a keep quiet about it. I've voted with my feet and I suspect many others will do the same. These are the same fans that would have still been going home and away in league one, will they still? Will they ####. 

‘Pretty much since LJ has been in charge’. Hold on a minute. The first half of last season was magnificent. For example, the first-half performance at Fulham was the best football I’ve seen from City for 40 years. People have very short memories, although I accept this season has been disappointingly dull. 

Perhaps we’ve all been spoilt by Aug - Dec last season. 

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

Mention of Muse...spice girls etc.

The money we make from those gigs is money that goes into Bristol Sport’s (possibly Ashton Gate Stadium Ltd)  income line.  It is not football related income, it’s only Bristol City Football Club related commercial activities that count in Bristol City P&L (and therefore FFP), e.g. shirt sponsorship, corporate boxes etc.

These gigs are Bristol Sport commercial activities to help Bristol Sport’s P&L....which has little relevance to Bristol City Football Club’s P&L.

The relevance is that it helps the profit of Bristol Sport, which way result in better arms-length costs transfer priced back to Bristol City for their use of Bristol Sport.

The structures underneath Pula is to complicated for mug little brain, but ultimately Bristol City Football Club is not really benefiting from these gigs.

Feel Free for anyone to correct me on how Bristol Sport and Ashton Gate Ltd fit into Pula.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

‘Pretty much since LJ has been in charge’. Hold on a minute. The first half of last season was magnificent. For example, the first-half performance at Fulham was the best football I’ve seen from City for 40 years. People have very short memories, although I accept this season has been disappointingly dull. 

Perhaps we’ve all been spoilt by Aug - Dec last season. 

That is true, but we all know that in football you’re only as good as your last game.

Realistically though for many of us it’s the frustration of inconsistency from season / part season to season / part season.  I know we over-achieved for much of last year.

[Dolman Block B]

This really does sum it all up

Some guys comments on Twitter

 

 

I’ve just found out that Lee Johnson, who asked to be judged on three transfer windows, has signed 47 players in three years at Bristol City. FORTY-SEVEN. Whether you’re Johnson In or Johnson Out, after signing over two full squads of players, you have to know your best side.

 

[Merrick's Marvels]

27 minutes ago, spudski said:

You turn down joining this lot...and all of a sudden getting anything done or approved in Bristol that's significant is nigh on impossible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Merchant_Venturers

Exactly right.

Lansdown was naïve, thinking if he followed due process, paid for the whole thing himself, his project would be given the green light.

As a self-made man that probably came as a shock.

 But it's just not the way the world works.

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, Dolman Block B said:

This really does sum it all up

Some guys comments on Twitter

 

 

I’ve just found out that Lee Johnson, who asked to be judged on three transfer windows, has signed 47 players in three years at Bristol City. FORTY-SEVEN. Whether you’re Johnson In or Johnson Out, after signing over two full squads of players, you have to know your best side.

 

In his defence he hasn’t bought 47 first team ready players

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

In his defence he hasn’t bought 47 first team ready players

and why is that? could have brought in half as many and all ready proven at this level...if he wants to bring on "his little bees" he needs to go to college and bring them on there; leave managing to the exp managers.

I like your posts but why bring in players not ready for the first team....this is a championship football club apparently not a training school.

[spudski]

40 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The money we make from those gigs is money that goes into Bristol Sport’s (possibly Ashton Gate Stadium Ltd)  income line.  It is not football related income, it’s only Bristol City Football Club related commercial activities that count in Bristol City P&L (and therefore FFP), e.g. shirt sponsorship, corporate boxes etc.

These gigs are Bristol Sport commercial activities to help Bristol Sport’s P&L....which has little relevance to Bristol City Football Club’s P&L.

The relevance is that it helps the profit of Bristol Sport, which way result in better arms-length costs transfer priced back to Bristol City for their use of Bristol Sport.

The structures underneath Pula is to complicated for mug little brain, but ultimately Bristol City Football Club is not really benefiting from these gigs.

Feel Free for anyone to correct me on how Bristol Sport and Ashton Gate Ltd fit into Pula.

It'll go to BCFC Dave...it's bloody complicated though.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

It'll go to BCFC Dave...it's bloody complicated though.

Why?  Please explain it to me.

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Why?  Please explain it to me.

When I'm not 5 Arran Malts in Dave

[Davefevs]

38 minutes ago, spudski said:

When I'm not 5 Arran Malts in Dave

Realise that BCFC and Ashton Gate Ltd are part of BC Holdings, but still separate companies.

[BigAl&Toby]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

 

Mention of Muse...spice girls etc.

@Davefevs has answered that one for you Spudski. I find it astonishing that so many people on here just don’t understand the corporate set up.

The football club is little more than a tenant. It owns very little of any value.

The value is owned by holding companies and offshore companies were Mr L is the ultimate beneficial owner.

Your idea that BCFC benefits from Muse or any other commercial activity that takes place at AG is incorrect. Sadly.

Who benefits? Mr L. Along with every sheep pie that’s eaten and Haze that’s drank.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The money we make from those gigs is money that goes into Bristol Sport’s (possibly Ashton Gate Stadium Ltd)  income line.  It is not football related income, it’s only Bristol City Football Club related commercial activities that count in Bristol City P&L (and therefore FFP), e.g. shirt sponsorship, corporate boxes etc.

These gigs are Bristol Sport commercial activities to help Bristol Sport’s P&L....which has little relevance to Bristol City Football Club’s P&L.

The relevance is that it helps the profit of Bristol Sport, which way result in better arms-length costs transfer priced back to Bristol City for their use of Bristol Sport.

The structures underneath Pula is to complicated for mug little brain, but ultimately Bristol City Football Club is not really benefiting from these gigs.

Feel Free for anyone to correct me on how Bristol Sport and Ashton Gate Ltd fit into Pula.

Could it not come under Bristol City Holdings, corporate income? Or are that and Bristol Sport purely separate, hived off from each other in terms of concert income?

Because there's undoubtedly a difference in certain areas between the Bristol City FC and the Bristol City Holdings Accounts.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

This really does sum it all up

Some guys comments on Twitter

 

 

I’ve just found out that Lee Johnson, who asked to be judged on three transfer windows, has signed 47 players in three years at Bristol City. FORTY-SEVEN. Whether you’re Johnson In or Johnson Out, after signing over two full squads of players, you have to know your best side.

 

I will say that includes all loanees and quite likely youth players from other clubs eg Di Giramalo (sp) but it's far, far too big a churn.

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Could it not come under Bristol City Holdings, corporate income? Or are that and Bristol Sport purely separate, hived off from each other in terms of concert income?

Because there's undoubtedly a difference in certain areas between the Bristol City FC and the Bristol City Holdings Accounts.

No, BCH does not trade in its own right.  I’ve been reading AGL and BCH Accounts tonight.

I was wrong about Bristol Sport, thought AGL was part of that, but it’s not.

[MarcusX]

On 02/12/2018 at 17:04, Dolman Block B said:

Spot on.

Ive never in 45 years of watching my club heard so much discontent about the current coach and the bollocks he continues to spill.

We are very poor and it hurts.

I actually think we will stay up, but based on comments from fans today many will not renew their season tickets if this continues.

This sort of thing is said EVERY time a manager comes to the end of his tenure.

McInnes, O Driscoll, Millen, Cotterill, even Gary Johnson all had similar statements made about them near the end.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

This really does sum it all up

Some guys comments on Twitter

 

 

I’ve just found out that Lee Johnson, who asked to be judged on three transfer windows, has signed 47 players in three years at Bristol City. FORTY-SEVEN. Whether you’re Johnson In or Johnson Out, after signing over two full squads of players, you have to know your best side.

 

Being a firm LJ supporter, it's hard to argue against that. That stat is shocking isn't it. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

@Davefevs has answered that one for you Spudski. I find it astonishing that so many people on here just don’t understand the corporate set up.

The football club is little more than a tenant. It owns very little of any value.

The value is owned by holding companies and offshore companies were Mr L is the ultimate beneficial owner.

Your idea that BCFC benefits from Muse or any other commercial activity that takes place at AG is incorrect. Sadly.

Who benefits? Mr L. Along with every sheep pie that’s eaten and Haze that’s drank.

So you're telling me that he won't use the profits of the concerts to plough back into Bristol City? Is that what you're saying? 

You do know SL is worth £1.48bn, right? The money from the concerts won't even register with the amount he owns.  You think the man is that greedy he wants to squirrel all of these little things away?  

[Natchfever]

6 hours ago, MarcusX said:

This sort of thing is said EVERY time a manager comes to the end of his tenure.

McInnes, O Driscoll, Millen, Cotterill, even Gary Johnson all had similar statements made about them near the end.

Difference being I doubt Lee Johnson is at the end of his tenure and that, I think is what annoys so many.

[Natchfever]

1 hour ago, Badger08 said:

So you're telling me that he won't use the profits of the concerts to plough back into Bristol City? Is that what you're saying? 

You do know SL is worth £1.48bn, right? The money from the concerts won't even register with the amount he owns.  You think the man is that greedy he wants to squirrel all of these little things away?  

Badger08 unless we see anything to categorically show that SL is diverting non football revenue from AG into BCFC then this debate will continue. As you know, I appreciate all that SL has ploughed into his project presumably from his own pocket, some of which BCFC benefits from but people must accept that the original entity is now just a component of SL's Bristol Sport machine, and how he spends revenue from non matchday sources is down to him. If for example the salary cap and marquee signings rules changed in rugby and there was a real chance for Bristol (and of course SL) to get European glory, I have no doubt that element of BS would take priority over the football club when it came to divvying up the spoils.

Likewise, profit from concerts etc may well support the funding of the ancillary development at AG like the basketball stadium which costs millions, and won't benefit BCFC in any way.

A spot of transparency if possible, or a statement on how it all really works might help, although equally it may wake up a few people to the fact that whilst still important, nowadays, BCFC  isn't the be all and end all to the owner..

[BigAl&Toby]

2 hours ago, Badger08 said:

So you're telling me that he won't use the profits of the concerts to plough back into Bristol City? Is that what you're saying? 

You do know SL is worth £1.48bn, right? The money from the concerts won't even register with the amount he owns.  You think the man is that greedy he wants to squirrel all of these little things away?  

Exactly. I’m glad the penny has dropped 

Income from stadium activities might be used to improve the stadium - perhaps build a hotel or replace the Atyeo or put even more money making franchises into the infrastructure. Where it won’t go is in getting diddly squat directly for the football club.

Listen. I think you (and many others) and I are poles apart. On another plant perhaps. Who knows who’s wrong and who’s right?

History will tell. Lee might be sacked, Ashton might go, Lansdown might “go for it” and we get promoted. Bugger me, he might even gift some shares to the Supporters Trust and his legacy for BCFC might be to return The Gate back to the football club.

Or he might not.

[BigAl&Toby]

8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Could it not come under Bristol City Holdings, corporate income? Or are that and Bristol Sport purely separate, hived off from each other in terms of concert income?

Because there's undoubtedly a difference in certain areas between the Bristol City FC and the Bristol City Holdings Accounts.

Spot on. The difference bit and it ain’t difficult to see.

The only asset in BCFC is playing staff and they’ll be in at an amount that will be questionable. Ok it’ll be based on something that PKF will be able to justify but it won’t be true market value. Assets in accounts never are.

There are some token freeholds in there but you can’t tell what. From memory BCFC has only income that it itself generates - match day revenue - and the clue here is match day. 

I suppose one way of having the income from Muse/Take That/Spice Girls would be to badge the concerts as half time entertainment but then we’d miss the Dunder Challenge 

Holdings from memory has the value that was includes that one asset that was once the home of the club. Now Holdings was set up I think before SL came along and for reasons that I suspect were linked to 82 but the fact remains that the value in what was once BCFC is no longer in its hands.

Through a layer of companies of which Lansdown is the beneficial owner, flying in on his permitted days to mitigate his tax, he owns the ******* lot.

So assets are now clearly divided into specific entities. Guess what. Income and costs will be too.

There will be arms length chargebacks but as we know we all have different length arms. My point?

That too will be managed to maximum effect and within an inch of what can be justified and is legal.

As I think @Loon plage has said if the racing car driver/basketball/rugby (or anything else you might think of - maybe a hotel and concert venue) meant Bristol would be proud then I for one think that Lansdown would switch his attention to that.

BCFC is only a part of his interests in Making Bristol Proud. It’s part of the Bristol Sport DNA.

And in all of that there are 3 words that are missing and are so telling.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Badger08 said:

So you're telling me that he won't use the profits of the concerts to plough back into Bristol City? Is that what you're saying? 

You do know SL is worth £1.48bn, right? The money from the concerts won't even register with the amount he owns.  You think the man is that greedy he wants to squirrel all of these little things away?  

@Loon plage and @BigAlToby&Liam are 100% correct.

FFP stops SL just throwing money at BCFC, should he wish to.  He can cover losses though (£39m over a rolling 3 year period).  And even that he is trying to push towards City being sustainable.

So buy your Muse, Take That, Spice Girls and Rod Stewart Tickets because you want to see them, not because you incorrectly think it will help City.