Paul Clement Sacked

[nebristolred]

Clement must have something. Assistant manager at Chelsea, PSG, Real Madrid and Bayern. Either he's an odd breed who is perfect as an assistant and dreadful as a manager, or maybe he hasn't found the right fit yet.

[Roger Red Hat]

JfC?

[Eastside Moonwalker]

He was a terrible manager tbh, shame he couldn't build on the initial Swansea success

[Working Late Again]

Always thought Clement looked like he should have a starring role in 'The Long Good Friday'.

 

You Slaaaagggggssssss

[redsquirrel]

1 hour ago, Badger08 said:

When Clement was a PSG and Real Madrid, I always tipped him to become a top-class Manager.  He always spoke well, and his coaching ability was widely praised by the world-class players he coached. 

Just goes to show, good coaches don't always make great managers.  Queue more Johnson vitriol. 

I don't quite get it here anymore. lj is the head coach (I think) so who is the manager? or don't we have one?

[glynriley]

3 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

I would be gutted if Jokanovic went there, we need him here in place of Mr Bullet proof! 

 

3 hours ago, Lew-T said:

Can see Jokanovic being his replacement unfortunately.

Just seen this thread and was about to post re Jokanovic. Watch him get the job, get them to the edge of the play offs by the end of the season and promoted next year.

Hopefully Taylor Moore, Eisa and Adelukan will have settled in for us by then...

 

[TV Tom]

45 minutes ago, Working Late Again said:

Always thought Clement looked like he should have a starring role in 'The Long Good Friday'.

 

You Slaaaagggggssssss

Why is that film never on the telly, the best British gangster film ever made, so many great quotes from it as well

[BS4 on Tour...]

2 minutes ago, glynriley said:

 

Just seen this thread and was about to post re Jokanovic. Watch him get the job, get them to the edge of the play offs by the end of the season and promoted next year.

Hopefully Taylor Moore, Eisa and Adelukan will have settled in for us by then...

Nah, those three are “ones for the future, still young, still developing..” - wonder what would have happened if Liverpool and England had taken that attitude with an 18 year old Michael Owen...

[Wanderingred]

I'd be really annoyed if Jokanovic takes the Reading job. He'd be a perfect fit here if the board opened their eyes to the reality for just a moment.

[downendcity]

4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Tbf I’d have LJ every time , over Clement , on the evidence to date

 

 

 

 

I need a lie down 

bottle of sherry in your advent calender today Bob?

[swanker]

5 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

I'm as Johnson out as you get but Paul Clement is definitely a weaker manager 

Totally agree but his side beat us the other week! 

[Lrrr]

2 minutes ago, swanker said:

Totally agree but his side beat us the other week! 

We beat Utd does that make LJ better than Jose?

[Alan Dicks]

Job for Lee Johnson

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Nah, those three are “ones for the future, still young, still developing..” - wonder what would have happened if Liverpool and England had taken that attitude with an 18 year old Michael Owen...

Or the 18 year old Michael Owen was used more sparingly and was able to perform more regularly during his career.

The guy was plagued by injuries.

[swanker]

1 hour ago, hodge said:

We beat Utd does that make LJ better than Jose?

No, but quite a lot of poor teams seem to be beating us at the moment don’t they!

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, nebristolred said:

Clement must have something. Assistant manager at Chelsea, PSG, Real Madrid and Bayern. Either he's an odd breed who is perfect as an assistant and dreadful as a manager, or maybe he hasn't found the right fit yet.

Plenty of assistant managers capable of being good cop, but it takes a different breed to be a manager.

I could see LJ being assistant to Pep, but he won’t be manager there.

[lenred]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Plenty of assistant managers capable of being good cop, but it takes a different breed to be a manager.

I could see LJ being assistant to Pep, but he won’t be manager there.

Really Dave?  I see that as high praise indeed that you rate him that highly as a coach. Not something I could see but I bow to your far superior football knowledge! 

[Davefevs]

33 minutes ago, lenred said:

Really Dave?  I see that as high praise indeed that you rate him that highly as a coach. Not something I could see but I bow to your far superior football knowledge! 

I think his coaching under the right man could take him places.  I don’t think he’d ever want to be a no2 though.

[BS4 on Tour...]

6 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Or the 18 year old Michael Owen was used more sparingly and was able to perform more regularly during his career.

The guy was plagued by injuries.

Yep, but I was comparing the age situation with Taylor Moore, Eisa and Adelakun....those three are certainly being used more sparingly by LJ aren’t they?!

[BCFC11]

Same as LJ imo, obviously Clement is a very highly thought of coach, you only have to look at his CV, unfortunately he doesn’t seem to have the managerial skills to succeed.

[Fuber]

12 hours ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

That reading squad is way more expensive than ours the fact he has 8 less points is criminal.  And if LJ is as bad as some think double criminal! 

...is it?

I actually see alot of parallels. Moore - Baker, Baldock - Weimann, Diedhiou - Bodvarsson.

In playing style they're quite similar.

However, Reading spent £6m on those 3 combined.

We spent spent double that on our said 3 signings.

Reading have never really spend alot - never have done, Coppell, McDermott, Rodgers (he was shocking at Reading however).

They actually up until Adkins they had an amazing track record similar to Brenford, and their academy is nothing to sneeze at, one of the better ones in the country.

Sigurdsson, Antonio, Hector, McCarthy, Long. That's a pretty good track record - their current first team has three doing well in Kelly, Richards, Obita, while Rinomhota, and Loader, are progressing and breaker into the 18 man squad.

For comprison, the latter is the same as us starting Kelly, Morrell, Vyner, then having Dowling and McCoulsky in the 7 subs.

Don't think theres too much in it. By this time next year's with the way our Salary spending is increasing we'll probably have a higher wage bill than them.

[Olé]

20 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

They have so little talent to work with - very few players would even make our bench.

its not all down to the coach.

I could totally see us signing Liam Kelly, who is always decent against us and fills a need! What about Bacuna too..

Otherwise I agree the players have been poor but the talent is there, what the hell happened to Aluko since Fulham?

[Olé]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think his coaching under the right man could take him places.  I don’t think he’d ever want to be a no2 though.

I totally agree Dave and was thinking the same thing recently - if a big Prem Club offered him a head coaching role that could be a win win for everyone. But the bit in bold would be sad if true, and one of the reasons I can never be sentimental or sympathetic towards LJ when things are going particularly badly (as in 16/17, and potentially the near future). 

Yes I try to be even-minded and appreciate the good work he undoubtedly does in some areas, but IF (as you say) he truly did feel that concentrating on his coaching strengths and giving up management, was beneath him, then not only would he be naive and stubborn, he'd also no longer be acting in the interests of City and more for his own personal ego.

In business I work with startups and you meet absolutely exceptional people (often founders) but it's a case of "great X but lousy CEO". The good ones recognise this and step aside to concentrate on X and allow someone else to lead, the worst ones cling on to wholly unsuited leadership to protect their ego. What's wrong with doing what you are good at?

[Peter1450]

Is he really that good a coach? Doesn’t seem to be getting the best out of any of the current squad.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Olé said:

I totally agree Dave and was thinking the same thing recently - if a big Prem Club offered him a head coaching role that could be a win win for everyone. But the bit in bold would be sad if true, and one of the reasons I can never be sentimental or sympathetic towards LJ when things are going particularly badly (as in 16/17, and potentially the near future). 

Yes I try to be even-minded and appreciate the good work he undoubtedly does in some areas, but IF (as you say) he truly did feel that concentrating on his coaching strengths and giving up management, was beneath him, then not only would he be naive and stubborn, he'd also no longer be acting in the interests of City and more for his own personal ego.

In business I work with startups and you meet absolutely exceptional people (often founders) but it's a case of "great X but lousy CEO". The good ones recognise this and step aside to concentrate on X and allow someone else to lead, the worst ones cling on to wholly unsuited leadership to protect their ego. What's wrong with doing what you are good at?

Yes, I guess that’s why on Dragon’s Den, you’ve had the inventor with no business acumen, not getting a deal for that invention, but one of the dragon’s offering to take them under their wing to just keep inventing stuff, and they’ll take care of the rest when the next big invention has legs as a marketable product.

[EnderMB]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

I totally agree Dave and was thinking the same thing recently - if a big Prem Club offered him a head coaching role that could be a win win for everyone. But the bit in bold would be sad if true, and one of the reasons I can never be sentimental or sympathetic towards LJ when things are going particularly badly (as in 16/17, and potentially the near future). 

Yes I try to be even-minded and appreciate the good work he undoubtedly does in some areas, but IF (as you say) he truly did feel that concentrating on his coaching strengths and giving up management, was beneath him, then not only would he be naive and stubborn, he'd also no longer be acting in the interests of City and more for his own personal ego.

In business I work with startups and you meet absolutely exceptional people (often founders) but it's a case of "great X but lousy CEO". The good ones recognise this and step aside to concentrate on X and allow someone else to lead, the worst ones cling on to wholly unsuited leadership to protect their ego. What's wrong with doing what you are good at?

With this analogy, surely LJ should be in his element as head coach? His focus should be on coaching, whereas we need a solid Director of Football and CEO to manage the off-field aspects.

I know LJ is head coach right now, but since he's been given more freedom in the transfer market, it feels like he's transitioned more to a manager role this season

[Olé]

4 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

With this analogy, surely LJ should be in his element as head coach? His focus should be on coaching, whereas we need a solid Director of Football and CEO to manage the off-field aspects.

I would argue the head coach with his tactical influence could and should have more influence on some of those DoF off-field aspects, what is really missing with a "head coach" is day to day leadership, in particular match-day motivation and direction, the sort of thing that drives consistency, gets teams up for it in all circumstances, and grinds out results.

Sound familiar? 

Who makes quick, confident, experienced and often gut-instinct decisions when the chips are down? Who shields the players and takes responsibility but expects no less from his players in return? Not the head coach. The head coach befriends and coaches the players as individuals, the head coach experiments, the head coach is an expert not a leader. 

[Major Isewater]

On 07/12/2018 at 10:56, EnderMB said:

With this analogy, surely LJ should be in his element as head coach? His focus should be on coaching, whereas we need a solid Director of Football and CEO to manage the off-field aspects.

I know LJ is head coach right now, but since he's been given more freedom in the transfer market, it feels like he's transitioned more to a manager role this season

When did he get " more freedom in the transfer market " ?

 

[RumRed]

On 07/12/2018 at 06:59, Olé said:

I totally agree Dave and was thinking the same thing recently - if a big Prem Club offered him a head coaching role that could be a win win for everyone. But the bit in bold would be sad if true, and one of the reasons I can never be sentimental or sympathetic towards LJ when things are going particularly badly (as in 16/17, and potentially the near future). 

Yes I try to be even-minded and appreciate the good work he undoubtedly does in some areas, but IF (as you say) he truly did feel that concentrating on his coaching strengths and giving up management, was beneath him, then not only would he be naive and stubborn, he'd also no longer be acting in the interests of City and more for his own personal ego.

In business I work with startups and you meet absolutely exceptional people (often founders) but it's a case of "great X but lousy CEO". The good ones recognise this and step aside to concentrate on X and allow someone else to lead, the worst ones cling on to wholly unsuited leadership to protect their ego. What's wrong with doing what you are good at?

Elon Musk strikes me as a perfect example of that.

[EnderMB]

On 08/12/2018 at 10:36, Major Isewater said:

When did he get " more freedom in the transfer market " ?

It's been commonly said on Twitter and on here that over the past six months LJ has been given more of a say in choosing targets, and that over the past year Lansdown has put more trust in LJ, from hiring staff he is familiar with (JM).

As funny as it is to laugh at LJ signing Engvall, we were scouting in Europe long before LJ arrived, and while LJ probably picked him as a target I don't think LJ knows enough about Swedish football to say "I know a guy, let's sign him". This year, it is believed that the club was interested in targets from LJ as well, probably because he was aware he'd be losing a chunk of his first team to transfers.