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Bristol City Managers - win%


hantsred

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Whilst trying to find some stats to compare Lee with current championship managers (couldn't find anything) I did come across this list which make interesting reading.

You could say Lee looks fairly comfortable in the list but this was at the start of the season so his up to date win% is down to 38.2% with current win % this season down at 35%.

If you take out the draws and just looks at wins vs losses he is heading into dangerous territory when the losses overtake your wins.

Yes I know - its only meaningless stats but still another angle on why he is under pressure to turn it around.

oh and how on earth did Benny Lennartsson last 31 games!!

Manager From Until Hons Games per Honour W D L Total Win%
Sam Hollis 1897 1899 0 n/a 0 0 1 1 0.00
Steve Coppell 2010 2010 0 n/a 0 0 2 2 0.00
Roy Hodgson 1982 1982 0 n/a 3 5 12 20 15.00
Benny Lennartsson 1998 1999 0 n/a 6 9 16 31 19.35
Bobby Houghton 1980 1982 0 n/a 14 22 25 61 22.95
Sean O'Driscoll 2013 2013 0 n/a 11 13 20 44 25.00
John Pemberton 2016 2016 0 n/a 1 1 2 4 25.00
Joe Bradshaw 1929 1932 0 n/a 32 26 61 119 26.89
Derek McInnes 2011 2013 0 n/a 17 14 32 63 26.98
Sam Hollis 1911 1913 0 n/a 27 21 44 92 29.35
Tony Pulis 1999 2000 0 n/a 10 14 9 33 30.30
Denis Smith 1992 1993 0 n/a 15 12 21 48 31.25
Keith Millen 2010 2011 0 n/a 18 12 27 57 31.58
Bob Wright 1949 1950 0 n/a 17 15 21 53 32.08
Joe Jordan 1994 1997 0 n/a 42 37 51 130 32.31
Russell Osman 1993 1994 0 n/a 30 30 32 92 32.61
Alan Dicks 1967 1980 1 611.00 202 174 235 611 33.06
Keith Millen (caretaker) 2005 2005 0 n/a 1 1 1 3 33.33
Peter Doherty 1958 1960 0 n/a 34 15 49 98 34.69
Jimmy Lumsden 1990 1992 0 n/a 27 17 32 76 35.53
Brian Tinnion 2004 2005 0 n/a 22 22 17 61 36.07
Joe Palmer 1919 1921 0 n/a 39 33 34 106 36.79
Bob Hewison 1932 1949 0 n/a 170 116 173 459 37.04
Frank Bacon 1910 1911 0 n/a 6 2 8 16 37.50
George Hedley 1913 1915 0 n/a 32 19 34 85 37.65
Fred Ford 1960 1967 1 362.00 145 100 117 362 40.06
Gary Johnson 2005 2010 1 239.00 96 69 74 239 40.17
Lee Johnson 2016 Now 0 n/a 48 30 41 119 40.34
Terry Cooper 1982 1988 2 150.50 127 84 90 301 42.19
Leroy Rosenior 2000 2000 0 n/a 11 9 6 26 42.31
David Burnside 2000 2000 0 n/a 11 9 6 26 42.31
Tony Fawthrop 2000 2000 0 n/a 11 9 6 26 42.31
Alex Raisbeck 1921 1929 2 168.00 143 80 113 336 42.56
Henry 'Harry' Thickett 1905 1910 1 223.00 99 55 69 223 44.39
John Ward 1997 1998 1 84.00 38 19 27 84 45.24
Steve Cotterill 2013 2016 1 116.00 53 35 28 116 45.69
Pat Beasley 1950 1958 1 354.00 162 77 115 354 45.76
Danny Wilson 2000 2004 1 226.00 107 55 64 226 47.35
Joe Jordan 1988 1990 1 134.00 68 30 36 134 50.75
Sam Hollis 1901 1905 0 n/a 69 24 40 133 51.88
Keith Millen (caretaker) 2010 2010 0 n/a 5 3 1 9 55.56
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6 minutes ago, hantsred said:

Whilst trying to find some stats to compare Lee with current championship managers (couldn't find anything) I did come across this list which make interesting reading.

You could say Lee looks fairly comfortable in the list but this was at the start of the season so his up to date win% is down to 38.2% with current win % this season down at 35%.

If you take out the draws and just looks at wins vs losses he is heading into dangerous territory when the losses overtake your wins.

Yes I know - its only meaningless stats but still another angle on why he is under pressure to turn it around.

 

Funnily enough being mid table would usually have you close to a similar wins & losses amount

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Looking at Joe Jordan's stats, I really do wonder what would have happened, and where we would be if he had stayed. Really think we had a chance.
Add to that Terry Cooper, what an absolute legend. Took over a basket case of a club and ended up with 42% wins. Loved that guy.

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Could never have anyone but Dicks as my top Manager, took us to the promised land.  Behind that Jordan and as has already been expressed, Cooper, his work in redeeming a club that was nearly extinct, should always warrant a mention- there may have been only 25% of the crowds now, but I was proud to be one of them.

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39 minutes ago, hantsred said:

Whilst trying to find some stats to compare Lee with current championship managers (couldn't find anything) I did come across this list which make interesting reading.

You could say Lee looks fairly comfortable in the list but this was at the start of the season so his up to date win% is down to 38.2% with current win % this season down at 35%.

If you take out the draws and just looks at wins vs losses he is heading into dangerous territory when the losses overtake your wins.

Yes I know - its only meaningless stats but still another angle on why he is under pressure to turn it around.

oh and how on earth did Benny Lennartsson last 31 games!!

Manager From Until Hons Games per Honour W D L Total Win%
Sam Hollis 1897 1899 0 n/a 0 0 1 1 0.00
Steve Coppell 2010 2010 0 n/a 0 0 2 2 0.00
Roy Hodgson 1982 1982 0 n/a 3 5 12 20 15.00
Benny Lennartsson 1998 1999 0 n/a 6 9 16 31 19.35
Bobby Houghton 1980 1982 0 n/a 14 22 25 61 22.95
Sean O'Driscoll 2013 2013 0 n/a 11 13 20 44 25.00
John Pemberton 2016 2016 0 n/a 1 1 2 4 25.00
Joe Bradshaw 1929 1932 0 n/a 32 26 61 119 26.89
Derek McInnes 2011 2013 0 n/a 17 14 32 63 26.98
Sam Hollis 1911 1913 0 n/a 27 21 44 92 29.35
Tony Pulis 1999 2000 0 n/a 10 14 9 33 30.30
Denis Smith 1992 1993 0 n/a 15 12 21 48 31.25
Keith Millen 2010 2011 0 n/a 18 12 27 57 31.58
Bob Wright 1949 1950 0 n/a 17 15 21 53 32.08
Joe Jordan 1994 1997 0 n/a 42 37 51 130 32.31
Russell Osman 1993 1994 0 n/a 30 30 32 92 32.61
Alan Dicks 1967 1980 1 611.00 202 174 235 611 33.06
Keith Millen (caretaker) 2005 2005 0 n/a 1 1 1 3 33.33
Peter Doherty 1958 1960 0 n/a 34 15 49 98 34.69
Jimmy Lumsden 1990 1992 0 n/a 27 17 32 76 35.53
Brian Tinnion 2004 2005 0 n/a 22 22 17 61 36.07
Joe Palmer 1919 1921 0 n/a 39 33 34 106 36.79
Bob Hewison 1932 1949 0 n/a 170 116 173 459 37.04
Frank Bacon 1910 1911 0 n/a 6 2 8 16 37.50
George Hedley 1913 1915 0 n/a 32 19 34 85 37.65
Fred Ford 1960 1967 1 362.00 145 100 117 362 40.06
Gary Johnson 2005 2010 1 239.00 96 69 74 239 40.17
Lee Johnson 2016 Now 0 n/a 48 30 41 119 40.34
Terry Cooper 1982 1988 2 150.50 127 84 90 301 42.19
Leroy Rosenior 2000 2000 0 n/a 11 9 6 26 42.31
David Burnside 2000 2000 0 n/a 11 9 6 26 42.31
Tony Fawthrop 2000 2000 0 n/a 11 9 6 26 42.31
Alex Raisbeck 1921 1929 2 168.00 143 80 113 336 42.56
Henry 'Harry' Thickett 1905 1910 1 223.00 99 55 69 223 44.39
John Ward 1997 1998 1 84.00 38 19 27 84 45.24
Steve Cotterill 2013 2016 1 116.00 53 35 28 116 45.69
Pat Beasley 1950 1958 1 354.00 162 77 115 354 45.76
Danny Wilson 2000 2004 1 226.00 107 55 64 226 47.35
Joe Jordan 1988 1990 1 134.00 68 30 36 134 50.75
Sam Hollis 1901 1905 0 n/a 69 24 40 133 51.88
Keith Millen (caretaker) 2010 2010 0 n/a 5 3 1 9 55.56

Wow!

About the same number of games as Steve Cotterill, and a 5% worse win ratio ..............

Speaks ******* volumes.

"Johnson OUT!!!"

:disapointed2se:

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1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

Looking at Joe Jordan's stats, I really do wonder what would have happened, and where we would be if he had stayed. Really think we had a chance.
Add to that Terry Cooper, what an absolute legend. Took over a basket case of a club and ended up with 42% wins. Loved that guy.

And me. Best days of my life supporting City whilst these two were in charge. 

Remember being in what was then Yugoslavia when news came through that JJ had left.

Never been the same since. Me or time watching the City.

And see. No mention of Lansdown. Oooops ?

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2 hours ago, hantsred said:

Whilst trying to find some stats to compare Lee with current championship managers (couldn't find anything) I did come across this list which make interesting reading.

You could say Lee looks fairly comfortable in the list but this was at the start of the season so his up to date win% is down to 38.2% with current win % this season down at 35%.

If you take out the draws and just looks at wins vs losses he is heading into dangerous territory when the losses overtake your wins.

Yes I know - its only meaningless stats but still another angle on why he is under pressure to turn it around.

oh and how on earth did Benny Lennartsson last 31 games!!

Manager From Until Hons Games per Honour W D L Total Win%
Sam Hollis 1897 1899 0 n/a 0 0 1 1 0.00
Steve Coppell 2010 2010 0 n/a 0 0 2 2 0.00
Roy Hodgson 1982 1982 0 n/a 3 5 12 20 15.00
Benny Lennartsson 1998 1999 0 n/a 6 9 16 31 19.35
Bobby Houghton 1980 1982 0 n/a 14 22 25 61 22.95
Sean O'Driscoll 2013 2013 0 n/a 11 13 20 44 25.00
John Pemberton 2016 2016 0 n/a 1 1 2 4 25.00
Joe Bradshaw 1929 1932 0 n/a 32 26 61 119 26.89
Derek McInnes 2011 2013 0 n/a 17 14 32 63 26.98
Sam Hollis 1911 1913 0 n/a 27 21 44 92 29.35
Tony Pulis 1999 2000 0 n/a 10 14 9 33 30.30
Denis Smith 1992 1993 0 n/a 15 12 21 48 31.25
Keith Millen 2010 2011 0 n/a 18 12 27 57 31.58
Bob Wright 1949 1950 0 n/a 17 15 21 53 32.08
Joe Jordan 1994 1997 0 n/a 42 37 51 130 32.31
Russell Osman 1993 1994 0 n/a 30 30 32 92 32.61
Alan Dicks 1967 1980 1 611.00 202 174 235 611 33.06
Keith Millen (caretaker) 2005 2005 0 n/a 1 1 1 3 33.33
Peter Doherty 1958 1960 0 n/a 34 15 49 98 34.69
Jimmy Lumsden 1990 1992 0 n/a 27 17 32 76 35.53
Brian Tinnion 2004 2005 0 n/a 22 22 17 61 36.07
Joe Palmer 1919 1921 0 n/a 39 33 34 106 36.79
Bob Hewison 1932 1949 0 n/a 170 116 173 459 37.04
Frank Bacon 1910 1911 0 n/a 6 2 8 16 37.50
George Hedley 1913 1915 0 n/a 32 19 34 85 37.65
Fred Ford 1960 1967 1 362.00 145 100 117 362 40.06
Gary Johnson 2005 2010 1 239.00 96 69 74 239 40.17
Lee Johnson 2016 Now 0 n/a 48 30 41 119 40.34
Terry Cooper 1982 1988 2 150.50 127 84 90 301 42.19
Leroy Rosenior 2000 2000 0 n/a 11 9 6 26 42.31
David Burnside 2000 2000 0 n/a 11 9 6 26 42.31
Tony Fawthrop 2000 2000 0 n/a 11 9 6 26 42.31
Alex Raisbeck 1921 1929 2 168.00 143 80 113 336 42.56
Henry 'Harry' Thickett 1905 1910 1 223.00 99 55 69 223 44.39
John Ward 1997 1998 1 84.00 38 19 27 84 45.24
Steve Cotterill 2013 2016 1 116.00 53 35 28 116 45.69
Pat Beasley 1950 1958 1 354.00 162 77 115 354 45.76
Danny Wilson 2000 2004 1 226.00 107 55 64 226 47.35
Joe Jordan 1988 1990 1 134.00 68 30 36 134 50.75
Sam Hollis 1901 1905 0 n/a 69 24 40 133 51.88
Keith Millen (caretaker) 2010 2010 0 n/a 5 3 1 9 55.56

Well, I never knew Pete Doherty managed us. Bet he can't stand us now

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Am I really the only person who looked at that and decided win ratio is useless and we really need a points ratio (accepting we need to deal with the 2-3 points for a win change)? This is in no way indicative when 33% of the value of a win (a draw) is totally ignored. Look at LJ's ratio of losses to wins versus all around him. The whole obsession with LJ's stats here fall apart like a well rehearsed international break tactical strategy.

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22 minutes ago, Olé said:

Am I really the only person who looked at that and decided win ratio is useless and we really need a points ratio (accepting we need to deal with the 2-3 points for a win change)? This is in no way indicative when 33% of the value of a win (a draw) is totally ignored. Look at LJ's ratio of losses to wins versus all around him. The whole obsession with LJ's stats here fall apart like a well rehearsed international break tactical strategy.

Big Sam only England Manager with a 100% record, must be the best manager of all time. Boy did I enjoy our second world cup win.

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3 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Could never have anyone but Dicks as my top Manager, tools us to the promised land.  Behind that Jordan and as has already been expressed, Cooper, his work in redeeming a club that was nearly extinct, should always warrant a mention- there may have been only 25% of the crowds now, but I was proud to be one of them.

And look at the abuse he got 

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5 hours ago, Bailey is Right said:

It has to be considered that the large majority of Cotterill's games were in league 1. 

Cotterill was backed in League 1. Lee was backed in the Championship, most of the time anyway.

Cotterill took over a club on its knees, bitterly divided and rudderless. Lee took over a team seven months on from promotion, still fighting but needing a point in the right direction.

Both these things need to be taken into account too.

 

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13 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Could never have anyone but Dicks as my top Manager, tools us to the promised land.  Behind that Jordan and as has already been expressed, Cooper, his work in redeeming a club that was nearly extinct, should always warrant a mention- there may have been only 25% of the crowds now, but I was proud to be one of them.

Me too. Head says Alan Dicks, heart Terry Cooper, and Joe Jordan a close second on both. But look where AD is in that table; that must reflect two things. One that he was given time, and we spent several years getting to the promised land many of which saw us just where we are now with LJ. And secondly that it’s harder to get a good win ratio in a higher league. AD must have managed us at a higher average level than any other manager, few would argue he wasn’t successful, but look where he is on that table. 

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13 hours ago, ... said:

Wow!

About the same number of games as Steve Cotterill, and a 5% worse win ratio ..............

Speaks ******* volumes.

"Johnson OUT!!!"

:disapointed2se:

You do realise we play in a much tougher division..? 

I’m guessing this is very tongue in cheek..??

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11 hours ago, Olé said:

Am I really the only person who looked at that and decided win ratio is useless and we really need a points ratio (accepting we need to deal with the 2-3 points for a win change)? This is in no way indicative when 33% of the value of a win (a draw) is totally ignored. Look at LJ's ratio of losses to wins versus all around him. The whole obsession with LJ's stats here fall apart like a well rehearsed international break tactical strategy.

No, been banging the same drum for ages.

i would probably prefer 40% with a p10 w4 d4 l2 Pts16 over a 50% p10 w5 d1 l4 pts16 even though points are the same.

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

You do realise we play in a much tougher division..? 

I’m guessing this is very tongue in cheek..??

I think the earlier point needs consideration, Cotts took over a club potential going into Lg2, and quickly turned them around.  That team was shot of confidence.  Of course the Champ is tougher, but let’s not dismiss how quickly Cotts turned it around and got us into the Champ.  Likewise LJ, took over a team in relegation trouble.  I don’t buy the "definitely getting relegated”, none of us know what would’ve transpired in the Jan window, and after that.  Of course we may have gone down, and LJ did a good job of  getting us safe.  I do think that little spell from Pembo was critical, but that’s not me taking anything away from LJ.  Just think it meant LJ took over a team who’d won a couple of games and had a bit more confidence than if he’d taken over directly after PNE defeat.  

LJ continues to average around the p11 w4 d3 l4 mark.  It is no disgrace, as it’s all been in the Champ.

The win percentages can of course be used as a comparison, but it’s difficult to place total faith in them.  There will always be an argument against the comparison.

 

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42 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, been banging the same drum for ages.

i would probably prefer 40% with a p10 w4 d4 l2 Pts16 over a 50% p10 w5 d1 l4 pts16 even though points are the same.

I think the earlier point needs consideration, Cotts took over a club potential going into Lg2, and quickly turned them around.  That team was shot of confidence.  Of course the Champ is tougher, but let’s not dismiss how quickly Cotts turned it around and got us into the Champ.  Likewise LJ, took over a team in relegation trouble.  I don’t buy the "definitely getting relegated”, none of us know what would’ve transpired in the Jan window, and after that.  Of course we may have gone down, and LJ did a good job of  getting us safe.  I do think that little spell from Pembo was critical, but that’s not me taking anything away from LJ.  Just think it meant LJ took over a team who’d won a couple of games and had a bit more confidence than if he’d taken over directly after PNE defeat.  

LJ continues to average around the p11 w4 d3 l4 mark.  It is no disgrace, as it’s all been in the Champ.

The win percentages can of course be used as a comparison, but it’s difficult to place total faith in them.  There will always be an argument against the comparison.

 

I love Cotts for what he did for us, and from getting to know him a little bit though the FAN meetings. Top bloke and did wonders for us. 

Pembos impact is a slight myth. He made the formation changes that Cotts should have made, but win 1, drew 1 & lost 2, of his 4 game stint. “Relegation form” as many like to attribute to LJ this calendar year. Despite having got enough points in 2018 to have kept us up last season. 

We need to improve, no question. But LJ is doing ok despite swimming against the side. 

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9 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I love Cotts for what he did for us, and from getting to know him a little bit though the FAN meetings. Top bloke and did wonders for us. 

Pembos impact is a slight myth. He made the formation changes that Cotts should have made, but win 1, drew 1 & lost 2, of his 4 game stint. “Relegation form” as many like to attribute to LJ this calendar year. Despite having got enough points in 2018 to have kept us up last season. 

We need to improve, no question. But LJ is doing ok despite swimming against the side. 

I think the stats are wrong......I think LJ is credited with Charlton, where Pembo took the team....Johnson appointed earlier in the day.  LJ was sat in the stands with SL that game.

So I think Pembo deserves p4 w2 d1 l1 imho.D3B0FD59-5420-4795-855C-DFBA76EEC29A.thumb.jpeg.f35131bd9c77c361a19c1189e8a9086e.jpeg

Even bbc interview Wade Elliott and call him joint-standin manager.

Maybe Wade deserves credit too.  Forgotten Pembo got him involved.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35447260

 

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4 minutes ago, EmissionImpossible said:

John Ward was a strange one, one of our only managers sacked after a live game on sky...against?? Bolton maybe and I think we won. Remember being quite surprised when he was sacked

Agree, was hoping that win against a good Bolton side was the turning point....then he was sacked.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

No, been banging the same drum for ages.

i would probably prefer 40% with a p10 w4 d4 l2 Pts16 over a 50% p10 w5 d1 l4 pts16 even though points are the same.

I think the earlier point needs consideration, Cotts took over a club potential going into Lg2, and quickly turned them around.  That team was shot of confidence.  Of course the Champ is tougher, but let’s not dismiss how quickly Cotts turned it around and got us into the Champ.  Likewise LJ, took over a team in relegation trouble.  I don’t buy the "definitely getting relegated”, none of us know what would’ve transpired in the Jan window, and after that.  Of course we may have gone down, and LJ did a good job of  getting us safe.  I do think that little spell from Pembo was critical, but that’s not me taking anything away from LJ.  Just think it meant LJ took over a team who’d won a couple of games and had a bit more confidence than if he’d taken over directly after PNE defeat.  

LJ continues to average around the p11 w4 d3 l4 mark.  It is no disgrace, as it’s all been in the Champ.

The win percentages can of course be used as a comparison, but it’s difficult to place total faith in them.  There will always be an argument against the comparison.

 

Also worth noting that in League 1 we are a "big fish" and had one of the higher wage budgets. So Cotterill had far more ability to bring the better players at that level to the club.

 

Also shouldn't Pembertons record be p5 w2 d 1 l2 if you give him the Charlton game? The West Brom FA Cup replay was between the Middlesbrough and Leeds games.

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29 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think the stats are wrong......I think LJ is credited with Charlton, where Pembo took the team....Johnson appointed earlier in the day.  LJ was sat in the stands with SL that game.

So I think Pembo deserves p4 w2 d1 l1 imho.D3B0FD59-5420-4795-855C-DFBA76EEC29A.thumb.jpeg.f35131bd9c77c361a19c1189e8a9086e.jpeg

Even bbc interview Wade Elliott and call him joint-standin manager.

Maybe Wade deserves credit too.  Forgotten Pembo got him involved.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35447260

 

Yes that’s valid. Pemba deserves credit for the Charlton win as well. 

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