pl00peh91 Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 We've just come off the back of another impressive 1-0 away win, the third in addition to Brentford away and Swansea away. In fact five of our eight wins have been 1-0 when you factor in Sheff Utd and Hull at home. We've lost a lot of goal scoring threat and creativity over the summer but arguably our defence hasn't weakened, granted we have lost eight games but let's face it the defence was shocking in the second half of last season. It may not necessarily be popular but when we made the playoffs in 2008 it was built on a campaign of 1-0 wins - resilient at the back and nicking a goal when it mattered most. I think we're all grieving the loss of the expansive team that was so good up to Xmas last year, however our personnel has changed significantly since then. We are better suited this season to a defensive style of play. I'll bet my hat that this is the reason our home form has been terrible so far this season, the players know the fans want to see expansive football and they try their best but it leaves them exposed at the back and, frankly, it doesn't even work as we've only scored more than one goal at home once this season. Therefore, I'd like to see us adopt a more conservative style of play at home, akin to the way we play away, to get us through the Xmas period and January - then let's see who they bring in to add some attacking threat. I actually don't think we are a bad team, eight wins in the championship by December cannot be a fluke, but as Johnson likes to put it we've been "prisoners of our past" in trying to re-create last season's magic with a team who simply isn't suited to that way of playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 No one ever spoke about 'Identity', until LJ started speaking about it... and continues to do so. He's created a noose around his neck, that tightens and loosens depending on how we play from week to week. From August to December last season...certain fans now see that as the bench mark of how we should play every week. For many reasons, which have been spoken about on here in many posts in the past...LJ has seen that it was not sustainable over a season....regardless of how enjoyable and entertaining it was to watch. We play totally differently, and have recruited to play differently. There are parts that are similar to those few months...but we haven't played the same way for approx. a year now. If you were to watch every Championship team, most fans would struggle to describe their 'Identity'. Are we playing considerably differently to any other team in this league? Do we stand out as doing something so different others are talking about it? We aren't. We can/ and have done on here, discuss the tactics and style of play that we now employ. Some blame the recruitment...and say we haven't recruited players to play the same way as we did at the beginning of last season. That's because we've recruited differently....to play a different way. We've tightened up the defence massively. As I said in a previous post...we have a top 6 defence. Our midfield in average...and our offence is bottom 6 imo. January will be key to us maybe pushing top 10. I just hope fans don't moan about the recruitment,saying the players don't fit with early last seasons way of playing....because we don't play that way anymore. I know LJ means well when he talks about 'our Identity'...as it's something being pushed by the Club imo...part of the 'Brand'....but imo, it's just added more pressure on him, as people are moaning saying we don't play the same way to when he first mentioned it being our 'identity'. It wasn't sustainable over a whole season...so we've had to adjust. It's evolving...maybe one day we will go back to playing more like that period of time, but imo, that would need immense talent and quality throughout the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red panda Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 30 minutes ago, pl00peh91 said: We've just come off the back of another impressive 1-0 away win, the third in addition to Brentford away and Swansea away. In fact five of our eight wins have been 1-0 when you factor in Sheff Utd and Hull at home. We've lost a lot of goal scoring threat and creativity over the summer but arguably our defence hasn't weakened, granted we have lost eight games but let's face it the defence was shocking in the second half of last season. It may not necessarily be popular but when we made the playoffs in 2008 it was built on a campaign of 1-0 wins - resilient at the back and nicking a goal when it mattered most. I think we're all grieving the loss of the expansive team that was so good up to Xmas last year, however our personnel has changed significantly since then. We are better suited this season to a defensive style of play. I'll bet my hat that this is the reason our home form has been terrible so far this season, the players know the fans want to see expansive football and they try their best but it leaves them exposed at the back and, frankly, it doesn't even work as we've only scored more than one goal at home once this season. Therefore, I'd like to see us adopt a more conservative style of play at home, akin to the way we play away, to get us through the Xmas period and January - then let's see who they bring in to add some attacking threat. I actually don't think we are a bad team, eight wins in the championship by December cannot be a fluke, but as Johnson likes to put it we've been "prisoners of our past" in trying to re-create last season's magic with a team who simply isn't suited to that way of playing. Surely that would only work if teams coming to AG played as if they were 'at home'? Yesterday was undoubtedly a good result, but we rode our luck a lot. On average, I don't think we're clinical enough to succeed with a more defensive/counter-attacking approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 1 minute ago, spudski said: No one ever spoke about 'Identity', until LJ started speaking about it... and continues to do so. He's created a noose around his neck, that tightens and loosens depending on how we play from week to week. From August to December last season...certain fans now see that as the bench mark of how we should play every week. For many reasons, which have been spoken about on here in many posts in the past...LJ has seen that it was not sustainable over a season....regardless of how enjoyable and entertaining it was to watch. We play totally differently, and have recruited to play differently. There are parts that are similar to those few months...but we haven't played the same way for approx. a year now. If you were to watch every Championship team, most fans would struggle to describe their 'Identity'. Are we playing considerably differently to any other team in this league? Do we stand out as doing something so different others are talking about it? We aren't. We can/ and have done on here, the tactics and style of play that we now employ. Some blame the recruitment...and say we haven't recruited players to play the same way as we did at the beginning of last season. That's because we've recruited differently....to play a different way. We've tightened up the defence massively. As I said in a previous post...we have a top 6 defence. Our midfield in average...and our offence is bottom 6 imo. January will be key to us maybe pushing top 10. I just hope fans don't moan about the recruitment,saying the players don't fit with early last seasons way of playing....because we don't play that way anymore. I know LJ means well when he talks about 'our Identity'...as it's something being pushed by the Club imo...part of the 'Brand'....but imo, it's just added more pressure on him, as people are moaning saying we don't play the same way to when he first mentioned it being our 'identity'. It wasn't sustainable over a whole season...so we've had to adjust. It's evolving...maybe one day we will go back to playing more like that period of time, but imo, that would need immense talent and quality throughout the squad. That is simply not true. I did. And my peers, And other fans. A long time ago felt Bristol City should put in many of the things that have been done and creating more of an emphasis on the academy linking the differing elements together via a transfer strategy and playing/training philosophy = Adopting a more European style football model. Identity - Philosophy is not something primarily pushed by the club, its an ever present part of football e.g. Creating footballing projects (identities) are part of coaching badges, the differing elements of how we play, coach etc are articulated in these projects. Clubs large and small have unequivocal footballing identities, and so do Managers and Head Coaches be that a Howe, bald bloke at Man City, or Warnock. This thinking proliferates from grass roots up, top down, across divisions and Countries. All it is a rational methodical framework for how a club plays. Pragmatic and sensible and if implemented may not bring success as fans may want it, but can cut down on waste for a Bristol City losing tens of millions by avoiding morphing through style to style to recruitment to transfer window and more cash spent on change, make training more efficient and productive by focussing rigorously on the team play, training in conscious and unconscious comepetancies… And on this sense goes. maybe one day we will go back to playing more like that period of time, but imo, that would need immense talent and quality throughout the squad .. That is a nonsense. More like is simple to implement. More like is simply an intent. Howes and Warnocks put in playing principles almost instantly as part of their single minded intent. Those principles do not require immense talent only emphasis on the key skills needed … Mr Warnocks football requires often big lungs as a key skill … Howes football players who suit the passing patterns … The fundamental methodology is the same regardless of wealth and style. Manor Farm could adopt some of the playing principles of Man City … Identity, tactical identity, system of systems … Lot of words but = Adaptable and reflect the clubs and its ability, direction, ideals, mind set and up the pyramid wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allwaysred Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 There will be no moaning about recruitment SPUDSKI as there won't be any unless we sell LK and like most people post on here we're all happy being just a mid table team aren't we so why invest in a top 10 push..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 34 minutes ago, Cowshed said: That is simply not true. I did. And my peers, And other fans. A long time ago felt Bristol City should put in many of the things that have been done and creating more of an emphasis on the academy linking the differing elements together via a transfer strategy and playing/training philosophy = Adopting a more European style football model. Identity - Philosophy is not something primarily pushed by the club, its an ever present part of football e.g. Creating footballing projects (identities) are part of coaching badges, the differing elements of how we play, coach etc are articulated in these projects. Clubs large and small have unequivocal footballing identities, and so do Managers and Head Coaches be that a Howe, bald bloke at Man City, or Warnock. This thinking proliferates from grass roots up, top down, across divisions and Countries. All it is a rational methodical framework for how a club plays. Pragmatic and sensible and if implemented may not bring success as fans may want it, but can cut down on waste for a Bristol City losing tens of millions by avoiding morphing through style to style to recruitment to transfer window and more cash spent on change, make training more efficient and productive by focussing rigorously on the team play, training in conscious and unconscious comepetancies… And on this sense goes. maybe one day we will go back to playing more like that period of time, but imo, that would need immense talent and quality throughout the squad .. That is a nonsense. More like is simple to implement. More like is simply an intent. Howes and Warnocks put in playing principles almost instantly as part of their single minded intent. Those principles do not require immense talent only emphasis on the key skills needed … Mr Warnocks football requires often big lungs as a key skill … Howes football players who suit the passing patterns … The fundamental methodology is the same regardless of wealth and style. Manor Farm could adopt some of the playing principles of Man City … Identity, tactical identity, system of systems … Lot of words but = Adaptable and reflect the clubs and its ability, direction, ideals, mind set and up the pyramid wealth. In the context of what the average match day fan talks about on here...you are far from that. As a 'model' you are correct. In the context of what I was talking about in the whole of the post...rather the than one sentence you've taken...I think you've missed the point completely. Please read posts as a whole, and don't just take one sentence. It's a common theme that keeps recurring and most irksome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkz 76 Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 I don’t think we’re not that far away on being a good side the Squad needs 3 quality signings in my opinion MC - Midfield general that’s can lead our midfield and pick a quality pass RW- We don’t have enough quality in this area as Weimann and pato are not good enough and I like Eliason on the left ST- for obvious reasons Diedhou needs more support and we need a number 10 be honest Bobby Reid complimented Fammy perfectly. with these positions filled with quality I feel we would push on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuber Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 The issue is that so far this season we do not have a style. There's simply no clear thought process to be interpreted in how LJ wants us to play. We're sitting back more, and then when we press it breaks down as only one or two individual attempt it (Weimann and Pack). We have signed multiple wingers yet dont have a target man, we've also narrowed the pitch which seriously limits out and out wingers (Eliasson, Adelakun, and Watkins), and should mean that we play an inside winger cutting inside such as O'Dowda, but we dont, when we should at least do so at home - which could also make him sign a new deal if lack of playing time is an issue. Some subs and the chopping and changing doesnt seem to suit members of the squad, per the latter player who can't get minutes, Watkins has a disappeared completely. We also keep thumping balls aimlessly down the channels with no one chasing and for no real purpose. Birmingham was a great result - but we had a massive slice of luck the two previous games against weaker opposition with Bialkowski having a howler of a performance, and Cooper's sliced attempt to clear giving us four of our last 7 points. I'm hopeful we can kick on - however Im dreading trusting LJ and MA with another transfer window. We've needed a creative midfielder since Wade Elliott, and a Goalkeeper since we were promoted. We still need better players for each position - and we've spent over £30m since. I want to be optimistic, but we're playing some turgid stuff this season. The only performances this season Ive walked away from thinking we deserved three points were Swansea and Blackburn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 59 minutes ago, spudski said: In the context of what the average match day fan talks about on here...you are far from that. As a 'model' you are correct. In the context of what I was talking about in the whole of the post...rather the than one sentence you've taken...I think you've missed the point completely. Please read posts as a whole, and don't just take one sentence. It's a common theme that keeps recurring and most irksome. Your post was read as a whole. I highlighted and quoted two sentences because they were so sweeping and unequivocal. Jenas and Murphy talk of identity and dna on match of the day. YouTube informs kids ..What the average match day fan talks about has evolved. How the average fan is informed and influenced has evolved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Your post was read as a whole. I highlighted and quoted two sentences because they were so sweeping and unequivocal. Jenas and Murphy talk of identity and dna on match of the day. YouTube informs kids ..What the average match day fan talks about has evolved. How the average fan is informed and influenced has evolved I know that... however I think you are missing my point. No worries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 9 hours ago, pl00peh91 said: We've just come off the back of another impressive 1-0 away win, the third in addition to Brentford away and Swansea away. In fact five of our eight wins have been 1-0 when you factor in Sheff Utd and Hull at home. We've lost a lot of goal scoring threat and creativity over the summer but arguably our defence hasn't weakened, granted we have lost eight games but let's face it the defence was shocking in the second half of last season. It may not necessarily be popular but when we made the playoffs in 2008 it was built on a campaign of 1-0 wins - resilient at the back and nicking a goal when it mattered most. I think we're all grieving the loss of the expansive team that was so good up to Xmas last year, however our personnel has changed significantly since then. We are better suited this season to a defensive style of play. I'll bet my hat that this is the reason our home form has been terrible so far this season, the players know the fans want to see expansive football and they try their best but it leaves them exposed at the back and, frankly, it doesn't even work as we've only scored more than one goal at home once this season. Therefore, I'd like to see us adopt a more conservative style of play at home, akin to the way we play away, to get us through the Xmas period and January - then let's see who they bring in to add some attacking threat. I actually don't think we are a bad team, eight wins in the championship by December cannot be a fluke, but as Johnson likes to put it we've been "prisoners of our past" in trying to re-create last season's magic with a team who simply isn't suited to that way of playing. Nice post The challenge now is to retain the solid back 4 with Pack in front, whilst making more use of the ball when we get it. Yesterday was controlled around the halfway line, but wasteful beyond that...to many direct balls left open to Brum to win it. Brum themselves were more direct than us, looking early for Jutkiewicz everytime. They gave it away cheaper than we did....hence why we won possession 64:36. For me, it’s getting control of the ball, and then working better patterns, over shorter distances. Because we were too far forward, any ball over the top, down the sides, ran out of play. pic 1. Large distance back to front Pic 2. Closer distances - but everyone has to work harder. 1. & 2. Easy ball to JB, who can move onto to EP. 3. AW comes short, sucks full-back with him, allowing ball in behind to unrushing EP. If full-back doesn’t track, easy ball to AW 4. FD spins centre-back, for Hollywood pass option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Nice post The challenge now is to retain the solid back 4 with Pack in front, whilst making more use of the ball when we get it. Yesterday was controlled around the halfway line, but wasteful beyond that...to many direct balls left open to Brum to win it. Brum themselves were more direct than us, looking early for Jutkiewicz everytime. They gave it away cheaper than we did....hence why we won possession 64:36. For me, it’s getting control of the ball, and then working better patterns, over shorter distances. Because we were too far forward, any ball over the top, down the sides, ran out of play. pic 1. Large distance back to front Pic 2. Closer distances - but everyone has to work harder. 1. & 2. Easy ball to JB, who can move onto to EP. 3. AW comes short, sucks full-back with him, allowing ball in behind to unrushing EP. If full-back doesn’t track, easy ball to AW 4. FD spins centre-back, for Hollywood pass option Yeah but where are we passing through the thirds, double running and humbly training? Do you know what I mean? No, nor me either Maybe I'm just getting too old for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said: Yeah but where are we passing through the thirds, double running and humbly training. Maybe i'm just too old for this Good point. I guess with Man City, Ederson = Pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dullmoan Tone Posted December 9, 2018 Report Share Posted December 9, 2018 10 hours ago, Allwaysred said: There will be no moaning about recruitment SPUDSKI as there won't be any unless we sell LK and like most people post on here we're all happy being just a mid table team aren't we so why invest in a top 10 push..... It’s not all about selling for large fees, if we can move on the players taking a wage and not playing like Hegeler, Wright and perhaps even Baker. We could afford to upgrade, especially with a small fee for Callum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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