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Boring football to watch


Between heaven and hell

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Please can someone explain why our centre midfield player has to be the deepest player in possession.of the ball. I realise it's all part of the plan with the centre halves splitting wide which pushes the full backs slightly more forward but Jesus Christ i find it tedious and boring.

More often than not the ball will be passed from side to side  for both centre halves to have their obligatory touch and then every now and again back to the keeper as there is never a forward pass on as our centre midfielder has the ball and is playing like a quarterback.

I have been so impressed with Adam Webster as a footballing centre half since he joined us, surely he is more than capable of playing the ball out which will leave Marlon in the midfield area and gives us another option with a forward pass to then link up with the wide men.

If Lee Johnson wants to start getting fans back on his side then this boring style of play has to stop, especially at home when we should be ripping into the opposition.

Yes people will say it worked yesterday and it did as I witnessed , but dear god it is hard to watch and won't encourage people to come and watch.

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3 minutes ago, Between heaven and hell said:

Please can someone explain why our centre midfield player has to be the deepest player in possession.of the ball. I realise it's all part of the plan with the centre halves splitting wide which pushes the full backs slightly more forward but Jesus Christ i find it tedious and boring.

More often than not the ball will be passed from side to side  for both centre halves to have their obligatory touch and then every now and again back to the keeper as there is never a forward pass on as our centre midfielder has the ball and is playing like a quarterback.

I have been so impressed with Adam Webster as a footballing centre half since he joined us, surely he is more than capable of playing the ball out which will leave Marlon in the midfield area and gives us another option with a forward pass to then link up with the wide men.

If Lee Johnson wants to start getting fans back on his side then this boring style of play has to stop, especially at home when we should be ripping into the opposition.

Yes people will say it worked yesterday and it did as I witnessed , but dear god it is hard to watch and won't encourage people to come and watch.

You can't always win pretty but win we did

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20 minutes ago, Between heaven and hell said:

Please can someone explain why our centre midfield player has to be the deepest player in possession.of the ball. I realise it's all part of the plan with the centre halves splitting wide which pushes the full backs slightly more forward but Jesus Christ i find it tedious and boring.

More often than not the ball will be passed from side to side  for both centre halves to have their obligatory touch and then every now and again back to the keeper as there is never a forward pass on as our centre midfielder has the ball and is playing like a quarterback.

I have been so impressed with Adam Webster as a footballing centre half since he joined us, surely he is more than capable of playing the ball out which will leave Marlon in the midfield area and gives us another option with a forward pass to then link up with the wide men.

If Lee Johnson wants to start getting fans back on his side then this boring style of play has to stop, especially at home when we should be ripping into the opposition.

Yes people will say it worked yesterday and it did as I witnessed , but dear god it is hard to watch and won't encourage people to come and watch.

If Lee Johnson wants to start getting fans back onside then he needs to continue picking up points .

I personally preferred yesterday's match to many where we've played lovely stuff and got shafted .

 I want a committed, never say die team , they gave me that yesterday .

We are not Man City or Liverpool who have squads full of international ball playing footballers we are City and need to adjust our game accordingly. 

Get the basics right and the joy will come back into the team. 

It was not pretty , too many long balls played directly out of play but we got a reward for our persistence. 

It must also be noted that the conditions were foul for fantasy football.

 

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15 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

If Lee Johnson wants to start getting fans back onside then he needs to continue picking up points .

I personally preferred yesterday's match to many where we've played lovely stuff and got shafted .

 I want a committed, never say die team , they gave me that yesterday .

We are not Man City or Liverpool who have squads full of international ball playing footballers we are City and need to adjust our game accordingly. 

Get the basics right and the joy will come back into the team. 

It was not pretty , too many long balls played directly out of play but we got a reward for our persistence. 

It must also be noted that the conditions were foul for fantasy football.

 

Agree with most of your comments and horses for course springs to mind, my issues is that this is the norm now and it certainly shouldn't be at home as the Millwall game proved.

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So now that we're picking up points again the issue is we're not doing so in a good style? We tried to play the 'better' style of football and slid down the table. I can only hope whoever eventually follows LJ can do well and play a good style of football or I assume the same critics will get on their back as well if we're mid table ;)

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1 hour ago, Between heaven and hell said:

ease can someone explain why our centre midfield player has to be the deepest player in possession.of the ball. I realise it's all part of the plan with the centre halves splitting wide which pushes the full backs slightly more forward but Jesus Christ i find it tedious and boring.

More often than not the ball will be passed from side to side  for both centre halves to have their obligatory touch and then every now and again back to the keeper as there is never a forward pass on as our centre midfielder has the ball and is playing like a quarterback.

I have been so impressed with Adam Webster as a footballing centre half since he joined us, surely he is more than capable of playing the ball out which will leave Marlon in the midfield area and gives us another option with a forward pass to then link up with the wide men.

If Lee Johnson wants to start getting fans back on his side then this boring style of play has to stop, especially at home when we should be ripping into the opposition.

Yes people will say it worked yesterday and it did as I witnessed , but dear god it is hard to watch and won't encourage people to come and watch.

Because he is being used as a form of pivot. By sitting deep he creates better passing angles and constant support of the football - width and depth (security) around the football

The player in theory thus always has a simple option. It also creates secure possession. The ball going backwards and sideways is safe and again theories are by having secure possession in the first third the ball can then be moved securely to the second by creating constant options around possession.

This can make play pedestrian, it can also lead to the ball being played around the pitch at great speed because player A knows option B is at 45 degrees option C at 90 degrees and on. These options can become trained in to a point where players know the support is already there and decisions take a fraction of a second to make.

City at their best last season did similar e.g. Bryan as a full back was pushed far past the possession frequently to act as a receiver. The tempo of that team at its speak was fast and the ball was zipped around one two touch gone and move. 

Bristol City's difficulties now are the lack of movement, not creating numerical superiority around the ball and an inability to move the ball quickly in patterns of play one two's, wall passes, one touch two… That City can keep the ball well across the first third can be looked upon as a positive … It is something if Mr Johnson wants to pursue it that can be progressed without significant change to the back four and holding player.

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I mentioned in another post Brum thread that the stats said we had 66% possession yesterday (BBC Source) being away from home at a side that has not lost at home this season.  That is good going

  Equally created really the square root of **** all with it.  LJ alluded to that in his interview after the match . I am sure in January we will have personnel to change this, a Bannon type player . Simply no creativity in that final third.  Perhaps he is right, we are not far off being really decent?

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Yes, its boring to watch but it give points and thats the mainthing. We are hard to beat when we have the tactic like yesterday. Think we were very solid and controlled most of the game yesterday, boring but we took all points. Think it is the right way to go like yesterday. Hope we can be more creative when we are going forward. The ball and the players must move quicker. Think Famara and Taylor would be an good option.

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29 minutes ago, hodge said:

So now that we're picking up points again the issue is we're not doing so in a good style? We tried to play the 'better' style of football and slid down the table. I can only hope whoever eventually follows LJ can do well and play a good style of football or I assume the same critics will get on their back as well if we're mid table ;)

My issue with Lee Johnson is that for periods of his tenure we did play sublime stuff with largely his squad.

its not like he took over dross only a year ago and improved us.

Our ability and play has gone backwards on his watch.

I think it’s fair to question him based on the decline of his teams performances since 12 months ago.

As others have posted, this league is such that if he knew how to continue our consistent form from Sep to December last year, there’s a very good chance we would have been promoted last year or challenging this year.

Its not over expectation, it’s a realistic assessment of what Lee Johnson had somehow achieved.

The fact he cannot replicate it suggests it was nothing but fortuitous at the time.

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6 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Because he is being used as a form of pivot. By sitting deep he creates better passing angles and constant support of the football - width and depth (security) around the football

The player in theory thus always has a simple option. It also creates secure possession. The ball going backwards and sideways is safe and again theories are by having secure possession in the first third the ball can then be moved securely to the second by creating constant options around possession.

This can make play pedestrian, it can also lead to the ball being played around the pitch at great speed because player A knows option B is at 45 degrees option C at 90 degrees and on. These options can become trained in to a point where players know the support is already there and decisions take a fraction of a second to make.

City at their best last season did similar e.g. Bryan as a full back was pushed far past the possession frequently to act as a receiver. The tempo of that team at its speak was fast and the ball was zipped around one two touch gone and move. 

Bristol City's difficulties now are the lack of movement, not creating numerical superiority around the ball and an inability to move the ball quickly in patterns of play one two's, wall passes, one touch two… That City can keep the ball well across the first third can be looked upon as a positive … It is something if Mr Johnson wants to pursue it that can be progressed without significant change to the back four and holding player.

Thanks for that reply cowshed, some good points there.

All I can respond with is that we must still be at the pedestrian stage.I

Cheers 

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7 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

If Lee Johnson wants to start getting fans back onside then he needs to continue picking up points .

I personally preferred yesterday's match to many where we've played lovely stuff and got shafted .

 I want a committed, never say die team , they gave me that yesterday .

We are not Man City or Liverpool who have squads full of international ball playing footballers we are City and need to adjust our game accordingly. 

Get the basics right and the joy will come back into the team. 

It was not pretty , too many long balls played directly out of play but we got a reward for our persistence. 

It must also be noted that the conditions were foul for fantasy football.

 

I agree with you but am still bored by LJ tactics and style of play. I celebrate all points gained by City especially those gathered at places like St Andrews. But I still feel we have an inadequate HC.

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What a sad Post, even when we win our 'fan' gets bored! Was he/she at the game or just choosing a new topic to moan, whinge and find a way of driving fans off this forum? 

One of our best players of the past 2years was put in an unusually defensive position, that tactic worked against a strong home team team (we weren't discussing Millwall-nor yet another win at Ipswich-were we? 

Ask Pep fans if he asks his players to use defenders and goalies to get the ball square and back or perhaps hell and hell thinks he's as good as Lj and Pep 

We won, we're on a roll, get on it mate

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6 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

I mentioned in another post Brum thread that the stats said we had 66% possession yesterday (BBC Source) being away from home at a side that has not lost at home this season.  That is good going

  Equally created really the square root of **** all with it.  LJ alluded to that in his interview after the match . I am sure in January we will have personnel to change this, a Bannon type player . Simply no creativity in that final third.  Perhaps he is right, we are not far off being really decent?

I think someone like Herbie Kane on loan is more likely than a £6-8million?? Bid for Bannan etc. 

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7 hours ago, hodge said:

So now that we're picking up points again the issue is we're not doing so in a good style? We tried to play the 'better' style of football and slid down the table. I can only hope whoever eventually follows LJ can do well and play a good style of football or I assume the same critics will get on their back as well if we're mid table ;)

My issue was with the poor style of play when we were losing too, the points picked up just glosses over it. With luck the run will give the team some confidence to play a little more and our form improves.
As for the 2nd part, I'd say without doubt. It's not an LJ thing, if anything he's been having an easy ride. Another man in the hot seat wouldn't have felt so comfortable during poor runs.

 

Oh, and I think people are extremely fed up with the dull football because of how good we were for part of last year, so the 'better' style of football can work too.

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21 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Boring? Really? Try watching 90mins of many other teams in our division then try to explain why we are boring. 

Did you see our away wins this season, our home wins and even our defeat at WBA? Boring, really? 

Yes boring and my opinion was shared by a lot of people around me in the ground as well. If you read the op it does state that I witnessed the performance yesterday,  along with every home game and probably a third of all away games every year.

If you are happy to watch that constant sideways and back passing than fair play to you but personally I'm not.

I have always thought that the Bristol City team i have followed for about 40 yrs have always tried to play a bit of football, but this is non entertaining garbage.

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After about 20 minutes yesterday we had 78% of the possession, so Brum were sitting back with numbers and hoping to hit on the break. What I hope these wins will start to build again is confidence and belief in a football style, because that's when moving the ball about with pace and movement off the ball producing dynamic football will start to return.

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1 hour ago, Between heaven and hell said:

Thanks for that reply cowshed, some good points there.

All I can respond with is that we must still be at the pedestrian stage.I

Cheers 

The post below is apt.  Its difficult to be dynamic when the opposition dictate how the game will be played by being conservative, blocking passing options in low banks and looking to counter. Pedestrian football frequently follows even the best

21 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

After about 20 minutes yesterday we had 78% of the possession, so Brum were sitting back with numbers and hoping to hit on the break. What I hope these wins will start to build again is confidence and belief in a football style, because that's when moving the ball about with pace and movement off the ball producing dynamic football will start to return.

 

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1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

After about 20 minutes yesterday we had 78% of the possession, so Brum were sitting back with numbers and hoping to hit on the break. What I hope these wins will start to build again is confidence and belief in a football style, because that's when moving the ball about with pace and movement off the ball producing dynamic football will start to return.

That's how Birmingham under Monk tend to play, even at home- even so, 78% very impressive start.

However yesterday was something to build on IMO, definitely will boost confidence- when Walsh or Smith return we'll have that extra dynamic presence in there and with Walsh especially we can break the lines a bit more.

Pack in a back 3 could be interesting. Alternatively, give Kalas a bit more license- his passing stats at Fulham and Middlesborough were strong so I feel that while Webster brings the ball out more, Kalas can play those simpler passes.

With more license they could compliment each other even better and with Pack as the deepest central midfielder, could create some strong passing triangles.

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1 hour ago, Hampshire Red said:

Boring? Really? Try watching 90mins of many other teams in our division then try to explain why we are boring. 

Did you see our away wins this season, our home wins and even our defeat at WBA? Boring, really? 

Explain why we are boring is easy.  Preston home.  Nil shots on goal.  Millwall home. 1 shot on goal.  These are examples. I can go on.  Hull City. Appalling game. Injury time winner.  

 Balence it up against a few better performances where we actually created open play chances. Stoke, WBA  Bolton.  LJ in his defence seems to be aware of this if you listen to his words on OS after the Brum game that our issues are in final third.  Lacking that pass to create goal scoring chances. January will be an interesting month. 

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2 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

Explain why we are boring is easy.  Preston home.  Nil shots on goal.  Millwall home. 1 shot on goal.  These are examples. I can go on.  Hull City. Appalling game. Injury time winner.  

 Balence it up against a few better performances where we actually created open play chances. Stoke, WBA  Bolton.  LJ in his defence seems to be aware of this if you listen to his words on OS after the Brum game that our issues are in final third.  Lacking that pass to create goal scoring chances. January will be an interesting month. 

We've hit woodwork 12 times though, that needs to be taken into account.

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20 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

If Lee Johnson wants to start getting fans back onside then he needs to continue picking up points .

I personally preferred yesterday's match to many where we've played lovely stuff and got shafted .

 I want a committed, never say die team , they gave me that yesterday .

We are not Man City or Liverpool who have squads full of international ball playing footballers we are City and need to adjust our game accordingly. 

Get the basics right and the joy will come back into the team. 

It was not pretty , too many long balls played directly out of play but we got a reward for our persistence. 

It must also be noted that the conditions were foul for fantasy football.

 

How many games have City played lovely stuff this season and got shafted? Russell Osman got results mid table and bored thousands off the gate and destroyed the away support. 

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OP - not that he's shown it this year but Pack is the ONLY creative midfielder we have on our books, this despite the fact he, too, loves a lateral and backpass.

Like England with Gerrard we try to play out from centre edge of the box, get closed down, shuffle a couple sideways only for somebody to lump it long. There's nobody in front to pass to.

Saturday he was often behind the centre halfs.

The fact the rest are WeeLee look and play-a-likes  (all filler, no thriller,) means we have few options. To his credit CoD when he came on did try to change things up, but as he appears to be the latest on WeeLee's naughty step we don't want to rely on playing him as he'll be gone come January.

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1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

OP - not that he's shown it this year but Pack is the ONLY creative midfielder we have on our books, this despite the fact he, too, loves a lateral and backpass.

Like England with Gerrard we try to play out from centre edge of the box, get closed down, shuffle a couple sideways only for somebody to lump it long. There's nobody in front to pass to.

Saturday he was often behind the centre halfs.

The fact the rest are WeeLee look and play-a-likes  (all filler, no thriller,) means we have few options. To his credit CoD when he came on did try to change things up, but as he appears to be the latest on WeeLee's naughty step we don't want to rely on playing him as he'll be gone come January.

If you take the second highlighted line then read the first there has to be an option, IF they move. That is a point of dropping in and splitting it creates width and depth for players to move into to become options.

Its a bit uneven to call the team Wee Lee's because obviously they are not. Splitting also in theory creates space for the wide players Lee Johnson favours who are not Wee Lees  Full back pushed up and CB's pushing on are not Wee Lees. This is not a defence of Lee Johnson as the movement of the team should be trained in. The players should be coached to find their own spaces, use patterns of play because that is why the team takes up the positional structures it does. 

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