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Port Said Red

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I am determined not to make this a "Moaners" V "Happy Clappers" thread although obviously I have no control over where it goes. I just have a few points to make on our current position. 

We are not playing "well", in terms of freeflowing football, for whatever reason it's not there, there are occasional glimpses where the final pass doesn't come off etc, the second half performances against Blackburn and Stoke maybe, but no one can claim it has been a joy to watch in any sense. Having said that, it has often been said that getting results when playing badly is a sign of a good team in the making.

So far we haven't suffered the long drawn runs of bad results as in previous seasons, and that have been continuingly brought up as a feature of LJ's Managerial career. Has he found a way to stop those? Time will tell.

Our away results have been far better, probably because there is less onus on creating space and opening teams up, at home teams have worked out that we struggle when teams defend and hit us on the break. There is an argument to suggest that this forum would be a happier place if our home and away form were reversed, but I may be being over optimistic.

We are "comfortably mid-table", we could lose Saturday (it would not be a surprise on current form) and still be 13th or 14th, there is a little gap below us, a win however could put us in the top 10, which is not to be sniffed at in this league. We are 7 points off 6th and 11 points off 22nd.

So far it is a "meh" season, something that seems to encourage some and infuriate others. 

I do wonder whether Fulham fans were thinking the same roughly the same time last season after I found this table on a Reading stats site.  Interesting to not how much better Fulhams away record was compared to their home record, don't you think? We both have 12 home point from 10 games and we have 1 less away point from 1 extra game.

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There is still more than half a season and a transfer window left this year, we might consolidate our "mid tableness", pick up like Fulham to become contenders or fall away altogether. I think the 1st is the most likely and the last is the least likely, I obviously hope for the middle option. Whether that suits the rest of the fans is another question.

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Worth noting our home form was the worst in the top 7th this time last season.  Something perhaps LJ could address would remove more pressure off his back and put us back amongst the top teams.

However our away form from Jan till Oct was absoultely Bristol Rovers.

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8 minutes ago, TomF said:

Worth noting our home form was the worst in the top 7th this time last season.  Something perhaps LJ could address would remove more pressure off his back and put us back amongst the top teams.

However our away form from Jan till Oct was absoultely Bristol Rovers.

I was thinking about showing that table to a couple of Ipswich fans I know, but I hate to see men cry. :) 

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6 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I was thinking about showing that table to a couple of Ipswich fans I know, but I hate to see men cry. :) 

..and while I'm not a great LJ fan there is a cliche line to roll out 'be careful for what you wish for' -  what a few said when GJ left and ultimately look at the mess that followed.

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50 minutes ago, TomF said:

..and while I'm not a great LJ fan there is a cliche line to roll out 'be careful for what you wish for' -  what a few said when GJ left and ultimately look at the mess that followed.

Exactly. The wrong managerial choice next and we could be at the bottom of league 1 again.

Which is why I will keep on saying, things are nowhere near as bad as made by out by some. Just average.

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I think there's been an improvement in the defence this season, the CB's and Maenpaa in goal have been outstanding, plus Lloyd Kelly's contribution. There is room for improvement both in midfield (partly through Korey missing) and attack, if we could address those in January then we could still have a shot at the play-offs. Currently we're a typical mid-table side.

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1 hour ago, TomF said:

..and while I'm not a great LJ fan there is a cliche line to roll out 'be careful for what you wish for' -  what a few said when GJ left and ultimately look at the mess that followed.

Very true.  I know Dean Smith going to Villa is different, the run the new guy is on is awful and they are in free-fall, and according to Quest, they aren’t playing anything like the football they played under DS.  I think we saw that as early as his first game, where they lost total composure and stopped passing it.

I’m not aware there is a golden candidate out there at the mo’.

In many respects the 7 points from 3 games has given us a chance to calm down a bit, take a breather and see what happens next.  Had we lost all 3 (ifs and buts), wed be sat on 22 points, Millwall on 21, and it would look a lot worse.  We aren’t, in reality could have 9 points and be closer to the POs in 9th.

I saw a determination yesterday, and a physicality in places v Millwall.  You don’t have to “lose the dressing room” for players to sometimes realise they need to dig in.  The main thing is to not get carried away by a few Performances and slip into cozy club, but continue to work hard and in this division, that can get results on its own. 

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I think the real thing that makes a difference and hopefully has been learned from last year is reinforcing in January. 

Take Fulham for example, they realised we could make the play offs if we strengthen, so they went and brought in some key players e.g. Mitrovic

Who knows what could happen if we make a charge and have a second half of the season like last seasons first half. To achieve this we need a goal scorer or two and clearly another central midfielder. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Tears in rain said:

I think the real thing that makes a difference and hopefully has been learned from last year is reinforcing in January. 

Take Fulham for example, they realised we could make the play offs if we strengthen, so they went and brought in some key players e.g. Mitrovic

Who knows what could happen if we make a charge and have a second half of the season like last seasons first half. To achieve this we need a goal scorer or two and clearly another central midfielder. 

 

I think this transfer window will be very telling of the clubs perception of the current squad and it’s underlying ambitions.

Our form and performances overall this year have not been great and it’s a big ask to continually hope other teams have off days or just plain perform worst than us.

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2 minutes ago, 054123 said:

I think this transfer window will be very telling of the clubs perception of the current squad and it’s underlying ambitions.

Our form and performances overall this year have not been great and it’s a big ask to continually hope other teams have off days or just plain perform worst than us.

Very true points, I do find it interesting that they have said they want to push on and make a good go of it.

So if they don’t strengthen then that’s kind of selling different ambitions surely.

I can see why people believe we should be pushing further up the table because that is the message from the club. 

But our form up to now and looking at the results suggests finishing 13th is probable and where we should be when compared to other teams in the league. Which considering the players we lost is fair enough and this should be seen as a transition season. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Tears in rain said:

Very true points, I do find it interesting that they have said they want to push on and make a good go of it.

So if they don’t strengthen then that’s kind of selling different ambitions surely.

Didn't LJ say he would have to wheel and deal to get layers in, or words to that effect. Hence all the theories of Kelly etc going. Kind of mixed messages really. Problem is, as the set up at the club stands , I don't trust them to go and buy say 2 quality players to make a difference to the team.  . Apart from that I really don't see LJ getting substantial funds from SL to compete in an always difficult window. I really hope I'm completely wrong.

 

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Assuming we keep Kelly (or sell and loan back), for me the Back 4 and GK need no additions.  You could even let one go, bringing back Vyner or Moore.  If Wright is fit, I would think about trying to get some return on Baker.

Midfield and Attack depend on how LJ is gonna carry on playing.  Evidence that 4141 with Pack holding, might give more scope to go and get that clever attacking midfielder (Dack type) or a passing midfielder (Hourihane type).

If we are only gonna play 1 up, then a lot will depend on Fam’s form over the next 5 games.  If we can build cohesion in our style, then that will give clarity to the type of player to recruit.

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Midfield is the key, I think only one more creative is required. Fammy will get goals in this division, he just needs service. Cheap option would be to loan someone, though you could always get a Kent result. That being said, Walsh could be the long term answer. 

Defence is strong, Vyner and Moore to come back for the future. Webster, Baker and Kalas (for now) is decent. 

Kelly will go in a summer or two, but we should get good money for him. 

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4 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Didn't LJ say he would have to wheel and deal to get layers in, or words to that effect. Hence all the theories of Kelly etc going. Kind of mixed messages really. Problem is, as the set up at the club stands , I don't trust them to go and buy say 2 quality players to make a difference to the team.  . Apart from that I really don't see LJ getting substantial funds from SL to compete in an always difficult window. I really hope I'm completely wrong.

 

Yeah something along those lines. It will be really interesting to see what happens if Kelly leaves. 

Seems like mixed messages, I was chatting with someone about this the other day. They are probably responsible for some of the fury and abuse etc etc from fans when there is no clarity in what the targets are. 

I don’t see us getting the players required in January either mainly down to funding, but after last years window... maybe our track record isn’t brilliant! 

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1 minute ago, Tears in rain said:

Yeah something along those lines. It will be really interesting to see what happens if Kelly leaves. 

Seems like mixed messages, I was chatting with someone about this the other day. They are probably responsible for some of the fury and abuse etc etc from fans when there is no clarity in what the targets are. 

I don’t see us getting the players required in January either mainly down to funding, but after last years window... maybe our track record isn’t brilliant! 

I personally think the club will wait until mid-January before deciding what to do. if we`re still mid-table and have beaten two out of Brentford, Rotherham and Bolton at home I think they will decide that we`re not likely to trouble the scorers at either end of the division and will keep their powder dry until the summer.

Of course if Kelly, Kalas, COD and any others leave then everything changes as does any change in the anticipated return dates for the likes of Korey, Liam Walsh and MT.

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3 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

I personally think the club will wait until mid-January before deciding what to do. if we`re still mid-table and have beaten two out of Brentford, Rotherham and Bolton at home I think they will decide that we`re not likely to trouble the scorers at either end of the division and will keep their powder dry until the summer.

Of course if Kelly, Kalas, COD and any others leave then everything changes as does any change in the anticipated return dates for the likes of Korey, Liam Walsh and MT.

Definitely going to come down to a variation of factors like that. 

Form is a big one, we pick up and then strengthening could be a way forward, bang average and no change likely. Loan market is most likely to try keep us up if we fall off a cliff again.

Not a clue what will happen if we lose the 3 players you mention. Not even going to guess, it isn’t worth it!  

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Yes we are indeed an average Championship side with some arguably top players who I think can play in any top 6 side in this league.

As mentioned, the midfield is the weak area. I think we should really be looking at paying £5M+ on a big athletic box to box African-esq (Yaya Toure style) player. I know he got sent off this weekend (shouldn’t have) and I know it’s a PL example, but someone like Anguissa at Fulham would do a world of good for the spine of our side. 

The French leagues are littered with these type of players and there has to be a few that would move to this league.

If we maintain as we are, we can sneak up the talks and have a good go IF we are shrewd in January.

The main problem City have is when they want a player, other clubs jump in front of us in the queue and that put us down the pecking order. It may potentially be due to our scouting system, which may be pretty good compared to our rivals in this league. Like we do the work and the others wait in the lurches.

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1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Yes we are indeed an average Championship side with some arguably top players who I think can play in any top 6 side in this league.

As mentioned, the midfield is the weak area. I think we should really be looking at paying £5M+ on a big athletic box to box African-esq (Yaya Toure style) player. I know he got sent off this weekend (shouldn’t have) and I know it’s a PL example, but someone like Anguissa at Fulham would do a world of good for the spine of our side. 

The French leagues are littered with these type of players and there has to be a few that would move to this league.

If we maintain as we are, we can sneak up the talks and have a good go IF we are shrewd in January.

The main problem City have is when they want a player, other clubs jump in front of us in the queue and that put us down the pecking order. It may potentially be due to our scouting system, which may be pretty good compared to our rivals in this league. Like we do the work and the others wait in the lurches.

I think it’s wishful thinking that we can uncover a gem in the French leagues who is capable of adapting to the Championship straight away  and wants to move to a club who have no PL history (don’t pay that well), who has escaped the notice of all the PL scouts. These players do not exist in sufficient quantity to risk a club record fee. 

We need experience and guile, someone who has fallen out of favour but still wants to play.

If only Gary O’Neil hadn't been an injury prone journeyman looking for one last pay day, this is the recruitment model we should be recommending. People still purr over Hartley, where is his modern day replacement?

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