Crowd today.

[Meh]

1 minute ago, 054123 said:

Interesting take on it. I could exchange the word enabled for fuelled.

Players can ‘demand’ all they want. 

And due to Bosman £30M assets can let their contracts run down if their current club do no meet that ‘demand’

Bosman gave players and more importantly their agents power they never had.

[054123]

2 minutes ago, Neo said:

And due to Bosman £30M assets can let their contracts run down if their current club do no meet that ‘demand’

Bosman gave players and more importantly their agents power they never had.

Don’t disagree that helped even the field. I just think everyone lost sight what supports had bought into for the previous 100 years and sky was complicit in the paradigm shift.

If all the best players went to Spain, Man Utd fans would have still followed Man Utd, cheered there goals and celebrated their successes. 

Football in this country would have realised that it was already the most popular, and not because of sky money, Tunisian goalkeepers or dictatorial foreign funds.

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I know that they are top of the league but 1300+ Norwich fans on a Saturday night for a game that was on TV was impressive. It's a soul sapping journey at the best of times, I hope they all got through storm Deidre safely.

It's a very good following. 

Since we were both in the top division in the late 1970s (they were relegated the year after we were in 1980) Norwich have been promoted from tier 2 to tier 1 five times. 

Five promotions to the top division in 37 seasons (and one tier 3 season in that time). And 17 seasons of top class football, with add ons like a proper cup win at Wembley and playing in Europe.

For a Norwich fan, it is worth "keeping the faith" because a great season is never too far away. Faith tends to be rewarded (although it is getting harder for them, to stay in the top division, certainly).

Our support and their support - home and away - reflect our respective histories and the degree of faith the supporters of either club have in their owners to deliver something worth following, and sticking with. 

For a Norwich fan, since the 1970s,  there has always been something - or at least the belief that something - exciting just around the corner; for the Bristol City fan, er, well, anyway .....

 

 

[Tin Soldier]

I would rather have 15K fully behind the team roaring them on any day down AG than 22K+ with 7K whingers/prawn sandwich brigade moaning all through the match.

Good atmosphere yesterday topped up with celebrational Thatchers Gold down the pub last night - good days are back hopefully? Thought the team played well yesterday. COYRs.

[Harry]

7 hours ago, Redinthehead said:

After the last few weeks in football - Sky are the root of the problem?

To clarify, this was about the problems football has in terms of crowds, ticket prices, kick off times & scheduling, lack of respect / understanding for the fans, even distribution of money, clubs going bust for the sake of a prem footballers weekly wage etc etc. This wasn’t about the ills of society which ‘sometimes’ manifest themselves at football. It’s about the saturation of televised games and the alternative reality that the game now finds itself in. 

A few racists and a minor tear up where no one was actually hurt is not a huge problem that football per se, has. 

[Reigate Red]

10 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Since we were both in the top division in the late 1970s (they were relegated the year after we were in 1980) Norwich have been promoted from tier 2 to tier 1 five times. 

Five promotions to the top division in 37 seasons (and one tier 3 season in that time). And 17 seasons of top class football, with add ons like a proper cup win at Wembley and playing in Europe.

For a Norwich fan, it is worth "keeping the faith" because a great season is never too far away. Faith tends to be rewarded (although it is getting harder for them, to stay in the top division, certainly).

Our support and their support - home and away - reflect our respective histories and the degree of faith the supporters of either club have in their owners to deliver something worth following, and sticking with. 

For a Norwich fan, since the 1970s,  there has always been something - or at least the belief that something - exciting just around the corner; for the Bristol City fan, er, well, anyway .....

Very interesting post MOP.I have often thought why can't we emulate Norwich but I had not appreciated just how much more they have achieved than us.

[Bristol Oil Services]

48 minutes ago, Reigate Red said:

Very interesting post MOP.I have often thought why can't we emulate Norwich but I had not appreciated just how much more they have achieved than us.

Thanks. I don't think we can over-state how much better they have been than us since we were last at the top. We are chalk and cheese, us and Norwich, never mind us and Leeds/Derby/Forest etc.

Norwich's support is very good but there are reasons for that; our support is not so good (but still ok), and there are reasons for that too!

 

 

[slartibartfast]

1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Thanks. I don't think we can over-state how much better they have been than us since we were last at the top. We are chalk and cheese, us and Norwich, never mind us and Leeds/Derby/Forest etc.

Norwich's support is very good but there are reasons for that; our support is not so good (but still ok), and there are reasons for that too!

 

 

One being they draw from ALL of Norfolk (and of course a one team city, still we can all pray  ) .

[Akira]

On 15/12/2018 at 21:01, BobBobSuperBob said:

Take about 5000 off that for actual attendance 

Rows Of empty seats 

I’d estimate the ST holders seatsaround me about 2/3 occupied

Glad I went , enjoyable game , decent performance and one of the better atmospheres this season

Am I the only one who gets f*cked off about this attendance malarkey? Give the actual figures, bums on seats, numbers through the turnstiles. Not all the ST holders who may or may not have been there. Makes a mockery of even giving the attendance in my view! 

[slartibartfast]

27 minutes ago, Akira said:

Am I the only one who gets f*cked off about this attendance malarkey? Give the actual figures, bums on seats, numbers through the turnstiles. Not all the ST holders who may or may not have been there. Makes a mockery of even giving the attendance in my view! 

As long as every club does it. I think it's something to do with transparency for the tax man, or something .

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 hours ago, Neo said:

Disagree. Most prem clubs do not need gate receipts at all to survive and I’m sure more and more championship clubs are in the same boat.

So reduce prices significantly. Most fans love live football but too many can not afford POTD prices.

I believe City could reduce S/T prices and POTD and add 3K to every game - the small amount they may lose on the gate will be made up easily on merchandise and drink sells.

Clubs are greedy and pricing out some fans unnecessarily

When it comes to PL clubs you are right- the Sky money means they could significantly reduce prices most of them, I quite agree.

Championship- the bulk if not all- I can't agree at all. I actually do agree about the pricing out problem, but from a financial POV it's patently untrue to say this- well there's a caveat if there is a rich owner then of course they can survive without gate receipts- and a lot do, but overall? Dunno if I agree- the Championship in this country is the wild west of football finance- 100%. The biggest loss/income ratio of the top 4 divisions- wages were 99% of turnover in the Championship on average in 2016/17, appallingly profligate Division from a business standpoint, very precarious position for a lot of clubs tbh.

In effect, you're asking either owners to take a bigger hit to reduce ticket prices or player wages and fees to come down substantially in order to balance that up- and you would have to magic away FFP too. I can't see owners basically subsiding ticket prices like that myself, and as for player wages/fees...how do you square a circle of Neves to Wolves for £15m for example? (Which in itself in 2017 is by no means a poor value transfer- but for this level it is nuts).

Could be worse for 2017/18 but 15 out of 24 clubs spent in excess of 100% of their turnover on wages alone according to 2016/17 figures. That's just wages before any other running costs- the inflation in wages and fees at this level has far exceeded revenue (especially TV) growth in recent times. Essentially with a mix of spiralling wages, fees, but no commensurate rise in TV earnings in line with that- plus FFP and need for losses of 'only' £39m over 3 years- clubs need every penny basically. I think ticket prices are certainly too high, but we are where we are unless the bubble bursts. However, don't take my word for it about the Championship- Deloitte know better than me.

https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/annual-review-of-football-finance.html

This too- before accounting for transfers out and other income which can help offset losses.

Agree with you about Bosman though- restricts the ability of aspiring clubs or medium clubs to grow or get a fair price for their players. See it in top 2 divisions here, clubs picked off. See it in Europe with Ajax a huge example

@054123 Let's not rewrite history here. I know football didn't start in 1992 and all that shit, I know Sky isn't the be all, the end all and the glory (though I personally don't mind the odd 5.30pm kickoff under the lights but I digress). 

PL in 1992/93 had very little global brand. I'm certainly not saying Sky made it, but without the early influx of money, would it have became the same global success it is today? Not so sure. It would have grown yeah, but that level. I do enjoy though watching the old football from 70's when it is on Big Match and similar, BT all that but a global brand/phenomenon it was not.

@slartibartfast Think you're right- though the club would surely have both the real attendance and the actual attendance to hand. Seems fairly commonplace if not routine in football now though.

[Lanterne Rouge]

14 hours ago, Akira said:

Am I the only one who gets f*cked off about this attendance malarkey? Give the actual figures, bums on seats, numbers through the turnstiles. Not all the ST holders who may or may not have been there. Makes a mockery of even giving the attendance in my view! 

 

13 hours ago, slartibartfast said:

As long as every club does it. I think it's something to do with transparency for the tax man, or something .

The actual attendance figures must be available on the day. The police and fire service would need to have precise numbers in case of a major incident for one thing. 

[Akira]

4 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

 

The actual attendance figures must be available on the day. The police and fire service would need to have precise numbers in case of a major incident for one thing. 

Then why don't these figures get released to us? I know it doesn't effect much, but I used to enjoy knowing the attendance when at games, seeing the turn out. Now, you've no idea what it is. 

[Robbored]

Just under 20k. Not bad considering the weather was awful and the game was live on tv.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Akira said:

Then why don't these figures get released to us? I know it doesn't effect much, but I used to enjoy knowing the attendance when at games, seeing the turn out. Now, you've no idea what it is. 

OK. 

My guess would be, alongside reasons for tax and transparency, it makes the product look better.

Count number sold rather than number who made it and it bolsters sale of TV rights- it all adds up to a more attractive product.

Would be interesting on that note thinking about it, whether when they say 'The stadia in PL/Championship had x percentage attendance rate' whether they are using the real figures or the published ones.

[Akira]

14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

OK. 

My guess would be, alongside reasons for tax and transparency, it makes the product look better.

Count number sold rather than number who made it and it bolsters sale of TV rights- it all adds up to a more attractive product.

Would be interesting on that note thinking about it, whether when they say 'The stadia in PL/Championship had x percentage attendance rate' whether they are using the real figures or the published ones.

I get the science and reasoning behind it, I just don't agree with it. If you make it seem like a game is 'nearly' sold out every game, demand for tickets will be higher. Those who were thinking of going, will try and get their tickets for fear of missing out. 

Makes the 'product' seem more appealing, more attractive to others. "look, we get X amount per game". However, it's lying, really. And just seems wrong in my view. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Akira said:

I get the science and reasoning behind it, I just don't agree with it. If you make it seem like a game is 'nearly' sold out every game, demand for tickets will be higher. Those who were thinking of going, will try and get their tickets for fear of missing out. 

Makes the 'product' seem more appealing, more attractive to others. "look, we get X amount per game". However, it's lying, really. And just seems wrong in my view. 

More attractive to broadcasters I think. All forms part of a sales pitch.

Is it wrong? Maybe. Can't see it changing though.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 16/12/2018 at 08:12, Andy082005 said:

It's certainly ruining the match day experience . Attendances drop and atmospheres are effected by it

 

 

I dunno.

If you're talking about 5.30pm games, they're usually quite good atmosphere wise- they seem quite popular (well for home fans) in 2017/18 anyway.

Ones I've been to at AG often decent, ones I've seen on TV/radio also quite decent- extra couple of hours in pub for a start (though maybe it doesn't hold so much these days).

[RobintheRed Red]

On 15/12/2018 at 22:50, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Didn't go, couldn't be bothered. Not really enjoying it this season and it was pissing down, easy out. 

Same here mate on a xmas piss up shit weather watched it in a local boozer

[exAtyeoMax]

 

[Bs11lad]

1 hour ago, Akira said:

I get the science and reasoning behind it, I just don't agree with it. If you make it seem like a game is 'nearly' sold out every game, demand for tickets will be higher. Those who were thinking of going, will try and get their tickets for fear of missing out. 

Makes the 'product' seem more appealing, more attractive to others. "look, we get X amount per game". However, it's lying, really. And just seems wrong in my view. 

I thought that the actual attendance was between 15 and the 16 thousand  

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, Akira said:

Then why don't these figures get released to us? I know it doesn't effect much, but I used to enjoy knowing the attendance when at games, seeing the turn out. Now, you've no idea what it is. 

They are available on the club website apparently ......biggest disparity last season was the 22k announced against Sheffield Weds when there was only 15k in the ground.....

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-attendances-crowds-1819-2000244

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

Just under 20k. Not bad considering the weather was awful and the game was live on tv.

Nowhere near....

[Robbored]

13 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

They are available on the club website apparently ......biggest disparity last season was the 22k announced against Sheffield Weds when there was only 15k in the ground.....

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-attendances-crowds-1819-2000244

Nowhere near....

That was the official figure...........just saying......

[Orbital]

On 15/12/2018 at 22:04, joe jordans teeth said:

What weather,it’s not like it was snowing or icy god forbid ,chill in the air was all let’s not make out we were climbing Kilimanjaro 

I can vouch for that. I proposed to my Mrs at the summit.

[Nogbad the Bad]

10 hours ago, Robbored said:

That was the official figure...........just saying......

Yes, but why are you saying it? 

We all know it was (at least) several thousand less actually in the ground.

I very much agree with Akira, it's duplicitous and bloody annoying to give out an inflated figure as the official attendance.

Yet another irritating thing about modern football.

[WhistleHappy]

11 hours ago, Orbital said:

I can vouch for that. I proposed to my Mrs at the summit.

….must've been a great day, but inevitably things went slowly downhill after that!  

(#dontpushmeimclosetotheedge)  

[Robbored]

40 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Yes, but why are you saying it? 

We all know it was (at least) several thousand less actually in the ground.

I very much agree with Akira, it's duplicitous and bloody annoying to give out an inflated figure as the official attendance.

Yet another irritating thing about modern football.

I wonder what the reasoning is behind inflating the attendance.

As others have said they include SCs even if the holder isn’t there but why? 

It cant be a tax issue - if it was then under recording the attendance would be an obvious rationale.

[phantom]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It cant be a tax issue - if it was then under recording the attendance would be an obvious rationale.

Maybe it is as in theory we have paid for the match whether we are there or not?

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, phantom said:

Maybe it is as in theory we have paid for the match whether we are there or not?

Ah........the club paying tax on SC sales......of course!

Not having much knowledge about tax matters, that had passed me by..............

[WhistleHappy]

Can't see why (if they must have an 'official figure') they can't also publish the 'actual attendance figure' along side it in brackets.

It is clearly of great (or passing) interest to many of their paying customers (oops I mean 'valued supporters' of course) and in these days of endless 'football related stats' for almost everything surely clubs should publish these 'actual' numbers? 

Rightly or wrongly (some may say pointlessly) home/away travelling numbers appear to be increasingly important to many fans for 'bragging/mocking rights of their rivals... So give 'em realistic numbers to argue about.