The Coach Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 15 hours ago, Robbored said: Of that 47 how many were/are capable of playing in the Championship straight away and how many were part of the development set up? We have had this discussion before and I gave you the full list. Only a few players were under this development setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: As to players going out on development loan, how the hell do they improve given few ever come back? Ummm................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Red_Wizard said: We have had this discussion before and I gave you the full list. Only a few players were under this development setup. If I remember rightly RW the list you created was well..............unclear...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coach Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Robbored said: If I remember rightly RW the list you created was well..............unclear...... I don't think somehow Rob. It provided the name of each individual categorised into the development club, successful loan, currently playing regular football for us and those who have moved on/failed during their time here. Drawing up the list was not pleasant at all. It showed just how wrong we have got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 9 hours ago, SX227 said: Engvall goes to Belgium 2nd division side and has scored 7 in 17. Lower standard - but they only paid £250K I wonder if he'd never been here if some people would be saying look, - a Swedish International, young, playing in Belgian League 2 for a previously prestigious club (European Cup Winners in the 80's I think). Scores for fun. I have to wonder what the hell went wrong with Gustav Engvall when he was here, because he certainly knows where the back on the net is. I guarantee if we paid £1.5m for him now, (if the past had not happened) then not many would complain - I'd love to know the true story of Gustal Per Fredrick Engvall. I doubt any of us ever will. I think that the bottom line is that he didn't do enough to force his way into the first team. If he had been knocking in goals for fun either on loan or in the second stream then no way would the coaching team have left him out . The same can be said of every player , Eisa , Abdelakun ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Chappers said: We sold 3 key players to balance the books, a lot of promising young talent coming through, an absolute gem in Kelly, comfortable mid table in a League where we can’t compete financially with the larger clubs. Things aren’t that bad right now. But that's not the argument. The test is whether, given the resource at his disposal, WeeLee should have done better? You quote a lot of promising young talent but Kelly aside who else? Do we really have decent youngsters? Given we've Dasilva warming a bench in Greville Smythe you'd think so but who and where are they? In the cup at Watford last year Edwards and Lemondrizzle-Cake both put in decent performances so obscurity beckoned. When we were so desperate for a striker Hinds and McCloskey weren't given a chance and please don't respond they were too inexperienced, they couldn't have been worse than Engvald for God's sake and WeeLee arguably has taken decent money punts on two similar prospects. Why? Taylor-Moore across his contract is likley to have cost us £3m, for what? WeeLee should be judged against teams who've spent similar to or less than us and yet punch above our standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 16 minutes ago, Robbored said: Ummm................... It's a serious point. Go through the list of players we've signed for development these past 5 years and having seen them peddle their trade at a lower or non-league level have been cut once their contracts expire. I think at one point we had 21 or more players out on loan so even allowing for the fact they're not all going to come good how many will end up playing for us? We shouldn't be funding £3m for a player to see his days out at Bury and Cheltenham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 I'd like to see Somerset resident Kevin McCloud involved in monitoring the building process, popping in every now and then to see how the builder's getting on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nbafc Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: I'd like to see Somerset resident Kevin McCloud involved in monitoring the building process, popping in every now and then to see how the builder's getting on... Que big, dramatic project threatening issue just before the last ad break. (usually resolved!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Nbafc said: Que big, dramatic project threatening issue just before the last ad break. (usually resolved!) Followed by the icey voiceover saying that they have completely run out of money and everything is doomed, only for the final visit to show not just the completed house, but about 40k worth of new furniture tastefully scattered about the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 53 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said: I don't think somehow Rob. It provided the name of each individual categorised into the development club, successful loan, currently playing regular football for us and those who have moved on/failed during their time here. Drawing up the list was not pleasant at all. It showed just how wrong we have got it. Have you still got the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Red_Wizard said: I don't think somehow Rob. It provided the name of each individual categorised into the development club, successful loan, currently playing regular football for us and those who have moved on/failed during their time here. Drawing up the list was not pleasant at all. It showed just how wrong we have got it. If I remember correctly wasn't there quite a lot of dispute about the category you put some players into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Robbored said: I think you and BobbobSuperBob don’t quite understand SLs blueprint/strategy......and that’s a pity as all the transfer deals under LJ are based within that strategy. All of them? Can't deny there's a handful that have been failures. Unless I'm getting this wrong (I'm reading this slightly out of context) and you mean MA is signing players LJ hasn't 100% agreed to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 4 hours ago, 1960maaan said: Agree Dave, can't believe I'm going to (sort of ) defend LJ and recruitment again but. We were going to start the season with 2 U21's at LB maybe he/they thought to have Vyner striating the season at RB was a step too far. Pisano's injury record hasn't been great so young kids at FB may have been a worry with 2 new CB's too. Yes, it was more of an analogy rather than example, but you are right re Pisano injury record. We also should’ve expected BW to have been fit by now too. That should’ve given coverage too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Sturny said: All of them? Can't deny there's a handful that have been failures. Unless I'm getting this wrong (I'm reading this slightly out of context) and you mean MA is signing players LJ hasn't 100% agreed to? Of course there are failures - that happens at every club. Some you win and some you lose. My understanding is that MA is chief negotiator who deals with agents. LJ and his assistants meet regularly with the coaches and any potential players are discussed. It might well be that MA is in some of those meeting - he has various contacts within the game who may recommend players. I’d be surprised if MA was signing player behind LJs back....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 I always feel managers mention 'development' as some sort of excuse. I'm not saying LJ needs an excuse. Development in squad is an obvious thing that should be given for every team. What team isn't developing or buying youngsters for the future? Just seems obvious to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 11 hours ago, hodge said: I think going back to Sweden on loan probably didn't help, yes he got first team football but wasn't adapting to our system. Look at Eliasson, O'Dowda, Brownhill etc all struggled a bit in their first season with us but given time to settle and train with some game time their second seasons have been much better. For certain sending him back to Sweden was always a hindermant to him settling here! Plus his refusal to accept a league one loan on the table must have soured relationships with the coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, BTRFTG said: It's a serious point. Go through the list of players we've signed for development these past 5 years and having seen them peddle their trade at a lower or non-league level have been cut once their contracts expire. I think at one point we had 21 or more players out on loan so even allowing for the fact they're not all going to come good how many will end up playing for us? We shouldn't be funding £3m for a player to see his days out at Bury and Cheltenham. Comments like these simply reflect what I posted just now - that you obviously don’t understand SLs strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 Thanks @Davefevs for the spread sheet. So of the 31 players- 8 have been released/sold on/OOC. This does not include players that were sold but not signed by LJ from the first team e.g Flint, Bryan & Reid or the Development players released. So we come to a net figure of permanent signings of around 20 new players since Feb 2016. Some good, some bad and some indifferent. However this is not the 47 players as stated by @old_eastender so on this occasion at least, the 'typical bullshit' is not from LJ but from a fan with an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789000 Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 @Davefevs helpful to see the signings in a visual form, thanks. +5 points for sneaking a Robboredism in there as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 The 47 (ish) include loans too. Tomlin, Matthews, Odemwingie, Kalas, DaSilva, Giefer, Cotterill, Leko, Kent etc. (Off the top of my head) The loans of Woodrow and Diony were done with a future transfer in mind, so you could class those differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, hodge said: If I remember correctly wasn't there quite a lot of dispute about the category you put some players into? Indeed there was - hence ‘unclear’...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 I think we could see us have 4 or 5 academy players in the 18 in the next couple of seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coach Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, hodge said: If I remember correctly wasn't there quite a lot of dispute about the category you put some players into? Not that I recall. Everyone is going to have a different opinion of course. But not many made noise regarding the list. Not sure how I can find the post again to the related topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 Recruitment is an absolute minefield these days...even more so in this division, and the rules in place and the strategy being employed by the Club which LJ has been asked to adhere too. Also take into a account whether a player wishes to come here. Whether it was our A,B,C,D or even E choice of who was available. So many variables as to whether we get a player we want. Take everything into account...then like every club ...some work out, some don't . Even if you are lucky and things fall in place, you have no injuries and no bad games....you still have to take in the fact, that every other club is doing the same thing...and trying their utmost to stop you achieving as well. You could sign every player you want...it still doesn't guarantee doing well...because of all the other variables. So easy to write things in black and white...without taking all the variables into consideration imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, JonDolman said: O'Leary, Kelly, Vyner, Moore, Bakinson, J Smith and Semenyo are all very likely imo. A fair few of our other 23s have a chance, and then there's the next lot coming through too from the 18s. I personally love this strategy. O'Leary, Kelly, Vyner, Bakinson and Semenyo the five I think could be in our 18 regularly fairly soon. I think Morrell should be in and around it too but we've got a fair few CMs so not easy for him to get in. Then the likes of Lemonheigh-Evans, J Smith, Janneh and Pring are the other ones I think could end up having some kind of impact here in a couple years. To be a championship team with 4 or 5 local players in the team would be a dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42nite Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 In LJ's post match interview Saturday, when he was talking about building the team, I'm fairly sure he said..... These things take time. Maybe he's dropping hints towards a vacant managers job at a massive club not so far away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Grim Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 Johnson's building process is just like Jenga. Starts of well but it ineveitablely falls down and you have to start again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snufflelufagus Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 26 minutes ago, spudski said: Recruitment is an absolute minefield these days...even more so in this division, and the rules in place and the strategy being employed by the Club which LJ has been asked to adhere too. Also take into a account whether a player wishes to come here. Whether it was our A,B,C,D or even E choice of who was available. So many variables as to whether we get a player we want. Take everything into account...then like every club ...some work out, some don't . Even if you are lucky and things fall in place, you have no injuries and no bad games....you still have to take in the fact, that every other club is doing the same thing...and trying their utmost to stop you achieving as well. You could sign every player you want...it still doesn't guarantee doing well...because of all the other variables. So easy to write things in black and white...without taking all the variables into consideration imo. Good shout lots of other things affect signings. I mean that lad Pogba, Sanchez and Lukaku are hardly ripping any trees up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 31 minutes ago, spudski said: Recruitment is an absolute minefield these days...even more so in this division, and the rules in place and the strategy being employed by the Club which LJ has been asked to adhere too. Also take into a account whether a player wishes to come here. Whether it was our A,B,C,D or even E choice of who was available. So many variables as to whether we get a player we want. Take everything into account...then like every club ...some work out, some don't . Even if you are lucky and things fall in place, you have no injuries and no bad games....you still have to take in the fact, that every other club is doing the same thing...and trying their utmost to stop you achieving as well. You could sign every player you want...it still doesn't guarantee doing well...because of all the other variables. So easy to write things in black and white...without taking all the variables into consideration imo. Just look at Mourinho with Pogba . How can an 89 million pound World Cup winning player not be playing every week ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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