Expectations and hopes for the rest of the season.- what do we do in January..?

[Mr Popodopolous]

So what with approaching Christmas, halfway point, season is at a crossroads.

There's an outside chance of a playoff push if we keep up this revival, still think tweaks will make it even better setup now but my personal view still as consistently through the season a midtable finish.

Bearing this in mind, plus financial constraints I wonder what might be our goals for the rest of the season? Do we truly have a chance of playoff push deep into the season, or should we use the possible time from being in and around midtable to start building for next year.

Which leads me onto January- stick or twist? Roll the dice a bit (subject to financial regs, numbers etc) and hope we can go on a run with the right addition or 2, or save cash for the summer and put our energies into planning for next season. Not just in terms of targets but tactically- ie use some of cash to tie down O'Dowda for example, and perhaps give Brownhill, Pack and Walsh a proper go in a 3 centrally- if and when we finally ever move to 4-3-3 (I've been waiting about 18 months  ) Or Smith for one of Brownhill and Walsh- try different stuff but within a set framework.

Personal take is save money, do that building and experimentation- unless someone ideal and yet affordable becomes available and we could sign them on say a 2.5-3.5 year deal or even an 18 month loan if circs are right. Other than that though, any big loan signing- e.g. Defoe- good on one level but wouldn't guarantee playoffs and would just eat into our budget for next season.

So yeah, what to do about January window specifically and then also the rest of the season...tough one isn't it?

[redsapper]

Expectation:- for the rest of season Mid table.

 

Hopes:- bring in a couple of players that drive the team forward into the play offs.

[Hampshire reds]

a striker and a midfielder is needed. hope we have a couple ready to sign early jan. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

31 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

So what with approaching Christmas, halfway point, season is at a crossroads.

There's an outside chance of a playoff push if we keep up this revival, still think tweaks will make it even better setup now but my personal view still as consistently through the season a midtable finish.

Bearing this in mind, plus financial constraints I wonder what might be our goals for the rest of the season? Do we truly have a chance of playoff push deep into the season, or should we use the possible time from being in and around midtable to start building for next year.

Which leads me onto January- stick or twist? Roll the dice a bit (subject to financial regs, numbers etc) and hope we can go on a run with the right addition or 2, or save cash for the summer and put our energies into planning for next season. Not just in terms of targets but tactically- ie use some of cash to tie down O'Dowda for example, and perhaps give Brownhill, Pack and Walsh a proper go in a 3 centrally- if and when we finally ever move to 4-3-3 (I've been waiting about 18 months  ) Or Smith for one of Brownhill and Walsh- try different stuff but within a set framework.

Personal take is save money, do that building and experimentation- unless someone ideal and yet affordable becomes available and we could sign them on say a 2.5-3.5 year deal or even an 18 month loan if circs are right. Other than that though, any big loan signing- e.g. Defoe- good on one level but wouldn't guarantee playoffs and would just eat into our budget for next season.

So yeah, what to do about January window specifically and then also the rest of the season...tough one isn't it?

Stick and give some of the young lads game time. We haven`t had that luxury since we came back up and I would hope we make the most of it now. We aren`t going up or down as we`re not consistently good or bad enough so why pay the over-inflated prices that always come in January. I think a lot of fans realise that we will be mid-table and would welcome the younger ones getting more of a run out - I know I would.

That said, if a whole bunch of players (Lloyd, MT, COD maybe even Bakes) move on then the game changes and we have to replace some or all or risk going on a bad run due to lack of squad depth.

[Bristol is red]

25 minutes ago, Hampshire reds said:

a striker and a midfielder is needed. hope we have a couple ready to sign early jan. 

Exactly what I hope will happen, I just have serious doubts over whether we'd splash the ££££ for a current Championship striker seeing as they are the most expensive positions to fill.

We don't typically spend in January so I think it's likely we'd look to League One for a striker then probably a Loan for a midfielder (Neil Danns or Evander Sno type loan again would be perfect)

[spudski]

I think we need a quality midfielder and Striker...just to maintain the same type of form tbh.

Sometimes we create our own heartbreak and disappointment through expectations that aren't really attainable.

We will look to get stronger in January...but so will every other team.

If we finish between 6th and mid table I think we will have done well. Anything more and I'd be really surprised...pleasantly.

[Mr Popodopolous]

57 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

Stick and give some of the young lads game time. We haven`t had that luxury since we came back up and I would hope we make the most of it now. We aren`t going up or down as we`re not consistently good or bad enough so why pay the over-inflated prices that always come in January. I think a lot of fans realise that we will be mid-table and would welcome the younger ones getting more of a run out - I know I would.

That said, if a whole bunch of players (Lloyd, MT, COD maybe even Bakes) move on then the game changes and we have to replace some or all or risk going on a bad run due to lack of squad depth.

Broadly agree- I'd be surprised if we had a big set of sales in January but you never know in football. Obviously if that happened we'd have to fill gaps, even if only with short term solutions.

Agree though, if it doesn't look like promotion, playoffs or relegation likely I'd give Walsh when back a proper run for a start. I'd give a proper bona fide 4-3-3 a crack (this is all assuming squad stays broadly the same).

Something like

               Maenpaa

               Back 4

Brownhill Pack Walsh

O'Dowda            Eliasson

              Diedhiou

May even consider Wright and Webster at CB pairing for some games, see how it moves forward. Oh yeah, young players- Morrell would undoubtedly get his chance too in this scenario. O'Leary too would get a run.

@spudski Diedhiou is doing fine right now, why rock the boat in that sense. Midfield- Walsh and Smith return in February is it? Provided we can keep fielding a broadly settled side between now and then, with tweaks when necessary, is there a pressing need at this time?

Perhaps I'm a bit unambitious in my views for the rest of season- how far off the playoffs are we now? I know we're 14th, but 6 or 7 points is it?

[robin_unreliant]

If what we need is a midfielder and a striker then I want us to give Eisa and Adelakun a run in the team.

Move Callum more central and play HA wide if necessary. We are unlikely to go up or down, so use this chance to find out if they can do the business.

If we are going to give LJ yet more money to spend, save it for the summer.

[JamesBCFC]

17 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Broadly agree- I'd be surprised if we had a big set of sales in January but you never know in football. Obviously if that happened we'd have to fill gaps, even if only with short term solutions.

Agree though, if it doesn't look like promotion, playoffs or relegation likely I'd give Walsh when back a proper run for a start. I'd give a proper bona fide 4-3-3 a crack (this is all assuming squad stays broadly the same).

Something like

               Maenpaa

               Back 4

Brownhill Pack Walsh

O'Dowda            Eliasson

              Diedhiou

May even consider Wright and Webster at CB pairing for some games, see how it moves forward. Oh yeah, young players- Morrell would undoubtedly get his chance too in this scenario. O'Leary too would get a run.

@spudski Diedhiou is doing fine right now, why rock the boat in that sense. Midfield- Walsh and Smith return in February is it? Provided we can keep fielding a broadly settled side between now and then, with tweaks when necessary, is there a pressing need at this time?

Perhaps I'm a bit unambitious in my views for the rest of season- how far off the playoffs are we now? I know we're 14th, but 6 or 7 points is it?

We're 6 points off.

 

Granted they went on a spectacular run in the second half of the season but 2 games ago last season (20 played) Fulham were 9 points off. With 22 played they had 29 points, 1 less than we do at the moment.

Fulham finished 15 points clear of 7th (missed autos by 2 points), so it wouldn't take quite such a dramatic run of form to emulate them.

I think playoffs are very unlikey this season, but they aren't beyond the realms of possibility.

We'd need a 1.83 ppg average in our remaining games to get 1 point more than Preston did last season when they finished 7th 

Our current ppg is 1.36, so a fair improvement needed.

[Robbored]

As others have said I’d like to see a striker and an attacking midfielder especially if Pack or Brownhill get injured the cupboard is bare.

A mid table position with around 10/12 games go with a chance to reach the pray offs.....and a thrilling run in.

[1960maaan]

Over the past couple of years, and specially of late, I have become a real pessimist. Until this recent run, which I never saw coming, I had real fears of a relegation battle. I still don't rule out another poor run and finishing lower mid table. 
If we keep all our players, which I think we should do , and can add quality  in the positions @spudski suggests I think we could push close to a playoff spot. That's not saying get one , but just be in touch towards the business end of the season. 
My problem is I don't trust our recruitment to supply the required quality to make a difference. It also come down to available funds, I can't see us having significant money available to make a real impact in this window, and if that is the case I would rather not sign anyone. No more players to fill spaces, give the kids a go, unless we can sign players to really improve the squad there is no point. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

6 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Over the past couple of years, and specially of late, I have become a real pessimist. Until this recent run, which I never saw coming, I had real fears of a relegation battle. I still don't rule out another poor run and finishing lower mid table. 
If we keep all our players, which I think we should do , and can add quality  in the positions @spudski suggests I think we could push close to a playoff spot. That's not saying get one , but just be in touch towards the business end of the season. 
My problem is I don't trust our recruitment to supply the required quality to make a difference. It also come down to available funds, I can't see us having significant money available to make a real impact in this window, and if that is the case I would rather not sign anyone. No more players to fill spaces, give the kids a go, unless we can sign players to really improve the squad there is no point. 

This. Why spunk millions on players that we can get for half the price in July. It would take three major signings IMO to give us a realistic shout this season and I don`t think the funds available will allow that. Stick the youngsters in and keep our powder dry until the summer would be my preference.

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

This. Why spunk millions on players that we can get for half the price in July. It would take three major signings IMO to give us a realistic shout this season and I don`t think the funds available will allow that. Stick the youngsters in and keep our powder dry until the summer would be my preference.

Fully agree with this and the point by @1960maaan .

Would also add perfecting the tactical blueprint- this time if it's to be a midtable season would be ideal to do just that IMO.

To test it, chance to hone it in real conditions, competitive football- chances like that don't come around often. 

As far as January signings, would rather a decent wedge was offered to O'Dowda on a 3 year deal say unless absolutely the right player or 2, at the right price become available.

[Allwaysred]

We are certainly not good enough for any play off push unfortunately and I'm sure the 2nd half of the season will prove exactly where we are as a team but as already stated I'm not to sure we need to buy when Eisa an Adelakun we're brought in to add pace and creativity but now fit not even getting a look in. So does LJ think they don't fit are style of play or does he think there not ready for the championship?? If not why did we buy them and not spend good money on a proven striker in the summer if that's wot he's saying is needed in January.. Baffling... 

Are recruiting has never been great but the last few seasons has been poor and that seriously needs to change for any consistency in a prolonged play off push next year or year after but LJ certainly needs to decide how he wants to play.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

We're 6 points off.

 

Granted they went on a spectacular run in the second half of the season but 2 games ago last season (20 played) Fulham were 9 points off. With 22 played they had 29 points, 1 less than we do at the moment.

Fulham finished 15 points clear of 7th (missed autos by 2 points), so it wouldn't take quite such a dramatic run of form to emulate them.

I think playoffs are very unlikey this season, but they aren't beyond the realms of possibility.

We'd need a 1.83 ppg average in our remaining games to get 1 point more than Preston did last season when they finished 7th 

Our current ppg is 1.36, so a fair improvement needed.

Thanks, thought it was in that ballpark. 6 points.

Fulham were quite spectacular from Matchday 23-Matchday 45, half a season. Not a single loss- we definitely can't and won't repeat that, not least because Mitrovic addition helped spur them on- we won't get a similar blockbuster signing I feel.

Of course they aren't beyond the realms, but I just don't see it with the squad, the churn- the necessary transition and unless we are able to get quite specific targets able to fit our budgets.

If that doesn't happen, don't see the point in spending in January- unless it forms part of forward planning OR we get revenue from sales- eg Baker or much more worryingly, Kelly and O'Dowda.

[JamesBCFC]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks, thought it was in that ballpark. 6 points.

Fulham were quite spectacular from Matchday 23-Matchday 45, half a season. Not a single loss- we definitely can't and won't repeat that, not least because Mitrovic addition helped spur them on- we won't get a similar blockbuster signing I feel.

Of course they aren't beyond the realms, but I just don't see it with the squad, the churn- the necessary transition and unless we are able to get quite specific targets able to fit our budgets.

If that doesn't happen, don't see the point in spending in January- unless it forms part of forward planning OR we get revenue from sales- eg Baker or much more worryingly, Kelly and O'Dowda.

Our upturn doesnt need to be anywhere near as dramatic as Fulhams.

They were 3 points or so further from the playoffs and got there with 15 to spare.

An 18 point margin is huge. From start of Jan 2018 until the season ended they got nigh on 2.5 ppg (2.47 I think), we need 1.83.

The difference to what we're getting and what we need to reach is 0.47 ppg.

The difference between what we need and what Fulham did is 0.64 ppg.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, robin_unreliant said:

If what we need is a midfielder and a striker then I want us to give Eisa and Adelakun a run in the team.

Move Callum more central and play HA wide if necessary. We are unlikely to go up or down, so use this chance to find out if they can do the business.

If we are going to give LJ yet more money to spend, save it for the summer.

I like a lot of your sentiments here.

Work hard on the training ground to build more cohesion.

O’Dowda could interchange with Paterson in the 10 or even CM if need be  I want more from Weimann even if playing wide right.  We have options centrally, but if I could make one signing it would be in CM...but it would have to be a starter.  No point bringing in someone to warm the bench whilst Walsh and Smith recover from injury.

Hourihane would’ve been a good option had he not regained his place at Villa.

The other player I’ve always gone on about is Danny Williams, ex-Reading man who moved on a free to Huddersfield last season. OOC in the summer and barely getting many minutes until the last couple of weeks....been put in the shop window??? 

[JamesBCFC]

@Mr Popodopolous I would also say that unless we did something like win each game from now until January then not spend unnecessarily on an unlikely playoff push. Would be better off managing our FFP budget for the next season or two.

[The Constant Rabbit]

Sign no-one.

We have so many players out on loan that we paid huge ££ for that it is now beyond a joke.

Recall them - especially Taylor Moore, and play them (we are reasonably safe enough to play 2 or 3 of them per game - even off the bench) and make a decision.

If good enough - they play next year - end of.

Play Walsh and Morrell.

If not - sorry, but goodbye.

Establish if Baker,Pack and Smith intend to move on - if so, let them.

 

We need to start next season with a smaller, stronger and most importantly, players who want to be here.

When we sort that out - then its time to get new players - and NOT ones for the future.

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Our upturn doesnt need to be anywhere near as dramatic as Fulhams.

They were 3 points or so further from the playoffs and got there with 15 to spare.

An 18 point margin is huge. From start of Jan 2018 until the season ended they got nigh on 2.5 ppg (2.47 I think), we need 1.83.

The difference to what we're getting and what we need to reach is 0.47 ppg.

The difference between what we need and what Fulham did is 0.64 ppg.

I get what you're saying, and yeah it is possible- I just am not letting myself get excited this season, or allowing my own expectations to overshoot

The only time this season I did was when we beat Hull and Brentford with last minute winners and I looked at the fixtures and thought 'Well this looks alright, so does the fixture list'.

Think in a 6 game period we had Stoke home, Reading away, Preston home, Leeds away, Ipswich away and Millwall at home- wondered if some momentum would kick in...win 3 or 4, draw another and you're rolling.

Agree too about save the cash for FFP unless a genuine push looks on.

[pillred]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

So what with approaching Christmas, halfway point, season is at a crossroads.

There's an outside chance of a playoff push if we keep up this revival, still think tweaks will make it even better setup now but my personal view still as consistently through the season a midtable finish.

Bearing this in mind, plus financial constraints I wonder what might be our goals for the rest of the season? Do we truly have a chance of playoff push deep into the season, or should we use the possible time from being in and around midtable to start building for next year.

Which leads me onto January- stick or twist? Roll the dice a bit (subject to financial regs, numbers etc) and hope we can go on a run with the right addition or 2, or save cash for the summer and put our energies into planning for next season. Not just in terms of targets but tactically- ie use some of cash to tie down O'Dowda for example, and perhaps give Brownhill, Pack and Walsh a proper go in a 3 centrally- if and when we finally ever move to 4-3-3 (I've been waiting about 18 months  ) Or Smith for one of Brownhill and Walsh- try different stuff but within a set framework.

Personal take is save money, do that building and experimentation- unless someone ideal and yet affordable becomes available and we could sign them on say a 2.5-3.5 year deal or even an 18 month loan if circs are right. Other than that though, any big loan signing- e.g. Defoe- good on one level but wouldn't guarantee playoffs and would just eat into our budget for next season.

So yeah, what to do about January window specifically and then also the rest of the season...tough one isn't it?

Building for next year, that statement is like groundhog day for me, think I have genuinely lost count of the times we have had to be in this position, am getting a bit tired of this manyana it's always we're building for a next season that never seems to come (rant over).  

[Wanderingred]

I think this is the weakest, most open division for a long time. A playoff push could theoretically be possible but it would need LJ to show a level of shrewdness in the transfer market that we haven't yet seen, plus matching ambition from the board. We weren't prepared to go for it when we sat 3rd in the league last year, so it's not likely to happen this time around. I'd expect a couple of "ones for the future" plus maybe a midfielder on loan from the prem.

I'd expect the parachute teams like Stoke, Swansea and Boro to spend big and have a strong second half to the season. We'll be 12th-16th.

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Over the past couple of years, and specially of late, I have become a real pessimist. Until this recent run, which I never saw coming, I had real fears of a relegation battle. I still don't rule out another poor run and finishing lower mid table. 
If we keep all our players, which I think we should do , and can add quality  in the positions @spudski suggests I think we could push close to a playoff spot. That's not saying get one , but just be in touch towards the business end of the season. 
My problem is I don't trust our recruitment to supply the required quality to make a difference. It also come down to available funds, I can't see us having significant money available to make a real impact in this window, and if that is the case I would rather not sign anyone. No more players to fill spaces, give the kids a go, unless we can sign players to really improve the squad there is no point. 

You must be a psychic pessimist like me. The January window will bring? 

Nothing?

Dross like last year?

Sale of Kelly, Brownhill and Diedhiou; Yes.

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 minutes ago, pillred said:

Building for next year, that statement is like groundhog day for me, think I have genuinely lost count of the times we have had to be in this position, am getting a bit tired of this manyana it's always we're building for a next season that never seems to come (rant over).  

I give you Norwich transitioned last season between Neill and Farke.

A better example maybe Wagner- he joined Huddersfield when they were lower midtable, midtable under Powell.

That half a season proved very useful in developing their side, in bedding in new signings, getting all parties attuned with the style. If put to good use, it can really see a team develop and grow.

@Wanderingred We did in a sense 'go for it' last season...in a sense.

We had our usual operating losses. Unlike other years we did not sell prize assets during the season (Flint was the most linked) to offset. Without offsetting, it meant those losses stood.

Then at cost we brought Baker and Diedhiou. Then we loaned Leko for half a season, he went back. Kent and Diony for half a season and Woodrow for a full season. Oh and Steele from September to May was it. Not cheap as a whole I feel, those 5!

Within our capabilities- not selling any assets in summer 2017, January and those signings to pad out the squad- we did go for it..in terms of expenditure quite sure we did.

The caveat was that if we didn't go up, then the summer we've had would be necessary. As indeed it was.

[Allwaysred]

Unfortunately we can't compare ourselves to the above clubs mentioned as LJ has his own idears moving forward.... My main concern is and before i get jumped on i think him and his 2 sidekicks has reached the level of midtable and that's it and i think the ever changing squad and formations show that hence our inconsistency. Lets all be honest we don't have a player you call a game changer and excites which in big games to challenge we must have.... I love this club to bits but god it frustrates the life out of me..... COYR

[Vespa Red]

Having watched back the anniversary highlights of the Man Utd game on constant loop for the last 24 hours, we need a fit again and fully firing Korey Smith (no expenditure there although unlikely this side of Easter - fit certainly, fully firing may take some time.  And a guaranteed, nailed on striker who will get us 15 goals in the second half of the season.  A loanee is most likely there.

[spudski]

8 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

I think this is the weakest, most open division for a long time. A playoff push could theoretically be possible but it would need LJ to show a level of shrewdness in the transfer market that we haven't yet seen, plus matching ambition from the board. We weren't prepared to go for it when we sat 3rd in the league last year, so it's not likely to happen this time around. I'd expect a couple of "ones for the future" plus maybe a midfielder on loan from the prem.

I'd expect the parachute teams like Stoke, Swansea and Boro to spend big and have a strong second half to the season. We'll be 12th-16th.

It's far from the weakest. Probably one of the toughest in a long time. It doesn't have a couple of strong teams...It's full of teams with quality players, vast experience and resources.

The reason it is 'open' is because everyone one of these teams is capable of beating one another on their day. That doesn't mean it's weak. Quiet the opposite.

It's a league where 3 wins over a season will be the difference between mid table and a play off spot.

I'm also in the camp of aiming for the play offs is futile. You have to be aiming for top 2 imo.

Play offs are imo, a poison challis, unless you go up.

More often having a negative effect on the three teams that don't go up via the play offs.

We saw this ourselves.

[Eastside Moonwalker]

We have to play Eisa, even if it is a bit part role, over the course of the next 2-3 games. He will mostly likely be starting against Huddersfield too. This will assess if we actually "NEED" a striker. diedhiou is in great form so if we can get Eisa firing then a striker isn't neseccary (that being said, LJ must be seeing something in training to justify not playing him). 

 

I wouldn't actually buy anyone (in favour of brining Moore/Vyner back and playing Walsh). But a CM player would be nice. 

 

Realistically who will we lose this window? A potentially overpriced Kelly from Liverpool and Frankie Fielding?

[Garland-sweden]

Hoping for top six, to get there the ball have to go our way, no post or crossbar, ref, pen and so on. The leauge is so tight that most of the games can go either way. We have Smith, Walsh and Taylor coming back. Esia and Adelakunde? Odowda is a key player for us, If he can continue his good games we will be strong forwards. Dont think we will get some new player in January. As it stands think we will be 8-14 when the season is over. If we can win our next four games we will be fighting top six, but its a big If. Half the season played and everything can happen, we can have a bad run as well a good one. Last four games showed that we are hard to beat and can we go on that track its not impossible to be top six. Many good teams who have the same wish as us. Anyway Looking forward what will happen and fingers crossed. COYR!!!

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's far from the weakest. Probably one of the toughest in a long time. It doesn't have a couple of strong teams...It's full of teams with quality players, vast experience and resources.

The reason it is 'open' is because everyone one of these teams is capable of beating one another on their day. That doesn't mean it's weak. Quiet the opposite.

It's a league where 3 wins over a season will be the difference between mid table and a play off spot.

I'm also in the camp of aiming for the play offs is futile. You have to be aiming for top 2 imo.

Play offs are imo, a poison challis, unless you go up.

More often having a negative effect on the three teams that don't go up via the play offs.

We saw this ourselves.

It’s about being realistic Spudski - not that many clubs (4 or 5 ) would expect a top two finish this season. The obvious ones this season are Boro, WBA, Leeds, Norwich and possibly the Blades. For every other club the pray offs is the best hope - us included and personally I like to have something to aim for during the run in.

There are negatives of course - disappointment  if you dont make it and the possible hangover going into the next season but they can be exciting - I’m sure many of us can remember Roberts scoring against Hartlepool  and the Dolman Stand shook and Noble’s screamer at Selhurst Park.....