A plea to Kelly

[southvillekiddy]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Just read thru it....I think you’re taking ‘scknote’ far too seriously. 

To me it means any player repeatedly struggling with injuries as Taylor has.

 

Your serious may not be my serious and vice versa.There's nothing absolute about an opinion. I thought we had agreed previously that people are different and are offended or obversely uplifted by different things. Can we agree that "sicknote" can be viewed as a derogatory term? 

Just out of interest you might try asking Matty if he can see the funny side of being called a "sicknote"?

You say you have read through my post but you again stand accused of side-stepping unless you respond to the important points I make about our Club's record on injuries and rehabilitation. Can you also please comment on my opinions on the apparent low to middle performance of our player care systems and the staff that run them?

[Robbored]

5 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

Your serious may not be my serious and vice versa.There's nothing absolute about an opinion. I thought we had agreed previously that people are different and are offended or obversely uplifted by different things. Can we agree that "sicknote" can be viewed as a derogatory term? 

Just out of interest you might try asking Matty if he can see the funny side of being called a "sicknote"?

You say you have read through my post but you again stand accused of side-stepping unless you respond to the important points I make about our Club's record on injuries and rehabilitation. Can you also please comment on my opinions on the apparent low to middle performance of our player care systems and the staff that run them?

Citys  injury list isn’t necessarily a reflection on the methods used up at Failand - all clubs get injuries whether it’s in matches or in training.

As for the care of injured players - these days it’s top drawer with fully qualified professional physio’s looking after them. Every treatment used is scientifically proven for specific injuries.

It wasn’t always so with the like of Buster Footman who as I’m aware didn’t have any physio qualifications at all...........

Btw, I’m sure that if you told Taylor he was something of a  sick note he’d laugh and agree with you.

 

[Major Isewater]

21 hours ago, Robbored said:

Citys  injury list isn’t necessarily a reflection on the methods used up at Failand - all clubs get injuries whether it’s in matches or in training.

As for the care of injured players - these days it’s top drawer with fully qualified professional physio’s looking after them. Every treatment used is scientifically proven for specific injuries.

It wasn’t always so with the like of Buster Footman who as I’m aware didn’t have any physio qualifications at all...........

Btw, I’m sure that if you told Taylor he was something of a  sick note he’d laugh and agree with you.

 

then pull a hamstring as he walked away .

 

[Fodbarmyarmy]

Bit of a dilemma with Kelly....

He plays as a central defender for England U18 and now U21 and does a fine job as indeed he did when he dropped in there first half at Brentford when Baker was injured ...and i am sure LJ also see this as his best position but if and when he does play central then we miss out on the great runs and crossing he does down the left......shame he cant be in both positions at same time...also a shame we never got to see a good run of games with JB at LB with Kelly on left side of centre as that would have made a good pairing when playing out from the back ...

[southvillekiddy]

On 24/12/2018 at 17:58, Robbored said:

Citys  injury list isn’t necessarily a reflection on the methods used up at Failand - all clubs get injuries whether it’s in matches or in training.

As for the care of injured players - these days it’s top drawer with fully qualified professional physio’s looking after them. Every treatment used is scientifically proven for specific injuries.

It wasn’t always so with the like of Buster Footman who as I’m aware didn’t have any physio qualifications at all...........

Btw, I’m sure that if you told Taylor he was something of a  sick note he’d laugh and agree with you.

 

Good. I'm glad that instead of sniping you came out from the safety of your little friend's private box to debate with me.

Injuries have everything to do with what happens before, during and after the match and then what happens under the care of the staff appointed at Failand 

Would a potential high profile signing be tempted by what is on show to come to us? Would they believe their career could be improved, protected and lenghened? Your little friend told me it was not possible to improve a player once they reached the age of 25??

And what about the 5 minute boys - Sam Vokes, George Elekobi, Christian Ribeiro, that German bloke with the mum, 

and the botch-ups - Steve Brooker

the inherited injuries ones - Milan Duric

and the more than painfully slow recovery ones - Korey Smith, Frankie Fielding

I think Matty would give you one in the nuts

Merry Christmas

 

[Robbored]

Steve Brooker was ‘treated’ when Buster Footman was physio......not much more to say on that.........the others particularly Riberio were made of glass.

Injuries happen at all clubs at all levels. The record at City is as cyclic as every other club with similar size squads.

I don’t think that any injuries at City are a direct result of over zealous training  methods.

Now the physio team are all fully qualified professionals and employ all the most up to date and scientifically proven treatments. Things have moved on hugely since Busters days.

[marcofisher]

Would love to see him in the LCB position in a back 3/5 like we saw Maguire play for England in the summer, that would suit Kelly to the ground.

[Davefevs]

51 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

Would love to see him in the LCB position in a back 3/5 like we saw Maguire play for England in the summer, that would suit Kelly to the ground.

Yep, I think that’s his best position currently, although thought he was really good v Boro (and Assombolonga) at CB in a 4, and he ain’t bad at LB either!

Dont think we’ll be changing to a back 3 any time soon, but I would have no qualms about seeing him play CB with Dasilva outside him if our other CBs are injured.

[southvillekiddy]

16 hours ago, Robbored said:

Steve Brooker was ‘treated’ when Buster Footman was physio......not much more to say on that.........the others particularly Riberio were made of glass.

Injuries happen at all clubs at all levels. The record at City is as cyclic as every other club with similar size squads.

I don’t think that any injuries at City are a direct result of over zealous training  methods.

Now the physio team are all fully qualified professionals and employ all the most up to date and scientifically proven treatments. Things have moved on hugely since Busters days.

"Buster's days" sounds like pre-war but actually is not that long ago, 2009 when Brooker's treatment was botched - 2009 and well within SLs time - appointing unqualified people?????

Sam Vokes and George Elekobi "made of glass" - come off it!

When we do appoint someone of the calibre of Steve Allen we cannot persuade him to stay. Why is that? We could have built the whole player care and rehabilitation facilities and programmes around him - why not go for a Premiership quality, state of the art department -a massive factor for attracting high quality players.

I keep saying we have to have an edge being a Club in a foot-balling desert but you say everything is already marvelous.

Arrogant, stuck-in-the mud

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

"Buster's days" sounds like pre-war but actually is not that long ago, 2009 when Brooker's treatment was botched - 2009 and well within SLs time - appointing unqualified people?????

Sam Vokes and George Elekobi "made of glass" - come off it!

When we do appoint someone of the calibre of Steve Allen we cannot persuade him to stay. Why is that? We could have built the whole player care and rehabilitation facilities and programmes around him - why not go for a Premiership quality, state of the art department -a massive factor for attracting high quality players.

I keep saying we have to have an edge being a Club in a foot-balling desert but you say everything is already marvelous.

Arrogant, stuck-in-the mud

SL ‘inherited’ Buster.......

Steve Allen moved because he got a better offer and iirc closer to his home area.

Elekobi received a very serious injury not long into his first game. Whether he was rehabilitated at City I’m not sure....Vokes I dont remember his injury at all.

City is now a far more professional club than its ever been largely down to SLs influence. Before he arrived it run by well meaning amateurs.

It took him a while to get it right but now City is well run professional football club.

[marcofisher]

All this subjectivity about needing to play him in his best position seems nonsense to me anyway. He has shown to be an incredible player in both positions, any manager worth his salt will realise this and if they don't they shouldn't be a manager at this level. 

If you have a player who can play equally well in both positions, why try and play him in one position as thats his 'future position' when he is comfortable in both than play him where he is needed for the benefit of the team? He isn't going to have any issues, the kid doesn't strike me as not enjoying to be playing left back either. 

The boy will be relishing his first season and all the plaudits he has been getting wherever he has played on the pitch, and he won't be with us for long thats for sure, he is far better than any other player who has come through the academy so far. 

[CiderHider]

Gary Neville had no such problems at right back nor did Christain Ziegler.

[Dullmoan Tone]

Perhaps this thread would have been very different if it was started after today.

worst game since Sheffield Utd last season - he needs to focus on playing the simple passes well.

he was always going to have dips in form, but today shows he’s not ready for another league.

[shelts]

On 23/12/2018 at 10:26, Major Isewater said:

Practice with your right foot .

You need to be less obvious with your play if you want to be good enough for a top six club .

The opposition will be able to read your game too easily if you continue to only use your left .

Incidently, I have nothing against your left leg . It is a fine leg . The instant that I saw it I said " hello , that is a fine leg ". 

However , I want you to be the very best,  you have the potential, now work that sucker.

 

I’d like to know what advice you’d like to give our Captain Mr Pack ?

Not that you are , people are quick to get on Kelly’s forgetting how truly awful some of the others are ?

[Alex_BCFC]

He was poor today and still I just think he needs to use his right foot every now and again to turn away. He’s learning and will have games like that today - not a big deal. Clear there is talent but tweaks needed to improve I think. 

[DaveF]

57 minutes ago, CiderHider said:

Gary Neville had no such problems at right back nor did Christain Ziegler.

Gary Neville was a right back (I presume you mean Christian Ziege) was a left back? 

Playing full back on your wrong front is nearly always going to be difficult, what’s your point?

[MC RISK77]

Just gonna put it out their but are some starting to question kelly and his defensive qualities?

[Between heaven and hell]

21 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Perhaps this thread would have been very different if it was started after today.

worst game since Sheffield Utd last season - he needs to focus on playing the simple passes well.

he was always going to have dips in form, but today shows he’s not ready for another league.

Wrong

HIs worst game before today was Stoke City,  gave the ball away three times looked poor and was hauled off at half time.

[Meh]

6 minutes ago, Between heaven and hell said:

Wrong

HIs worst game before today was Stoke City,  gave the ball away three times looked poor and was hauled off at half time.

I said to my daughter after 30 mins that we need Da Silva on at half time but unfortunately did not happen.

Kelly was having one of those days where nothing was going right and whilst I appreciate sometimes leaving them out there works and one decent pass and it all clicks in place but today he just got more nervous and decision making was not great - the easy backwards pass was his go to.

He will learn but he is not ready for a higher level yet IMO.

[MarcusX]

On 23/12/2018 at 21:01, Robbored said:

Out last season for ages with a groin injury, now a hip flexor injury - draw your own conclusions 

2 similar injuries, potentially an underlying issue there. Probably unfair to call him a sick note just yet, but could suggest he will continue to have problems

[southvillekiddy]

7 hours ago, Robbored said:

SL ‘inherited’ Buster.......

Steve Allen moved because he got a better offer and iirc closer to his home area.

Elekobi received a very serious injury not long into his first game. Whether he was rehabilitated at City I’m not sure....Vokes I dont remember his injury at all.

City is now a far more professional club than its ever been largely down to SLs influence. Before he arrived it run by well meaning amateurs.

It took him a while to get it right but now City is well run professional football club.

I don't think so :

Yeah. You remember Vokes. Him and a few others didn't look good, couldn't fit at in at City, weren't happy at City ( can't imagine why) and now play in the Premiership or Internationally for England or Wales : Ryan Fredericks, Greg Cunningham, Danny Rose

All Steve Allen, Joe Bryan, Aden Flint and Bobby needed to stay was to believe that they were part of a set-up that was going somewhere

 

[MarcusX]

On 25/12/2018 at 17:56, southvillekiddy said:

Good. I'm glad that instead of sniping you came out from the safety of your little friend's private box to debate with me.

Injuries have everything to do with what happens before, during and after the match and then what happens under the care of the staff appointed at Failand 

Would a potential high profile signing be tempted by what is on show to come to us? Would they believe their career could be improved, protected and lenghened? Your little friend told me it was not possible to improve a player once they reached the age of 25??

And what about the 5 minute boys - Sam Vokes, George Elekobi, Christian Ribeiro, that German bloke with the mum, 

and the botch-ups - Steve Brooker

the inherited injuries ones - Milan Duric

and the more than painfully slow recovery ones - Korey Smith, Frankie Fielding

I think Matty would give you one in the nuts

Merry Christmas

 

Elekobi broke his ankle on his debut, not sure you can blame the club for that

Sam Vokes, also on his debut, tore his hamstring so that could be down to training etc. However he went on to have a string of injuries so maybe he was just prone to injury or didn’t do things properly himself. 

Ribiero, another debutant injury, only played 170 games in 11 years as a pro. He also continued to have issues after leaving us so again a good chance he just had issues

[Olé]

14 hours ago, Between heaven and hell said:

HIs worst game before today was Stoke City,  gave the ball away three times looked poor and was hauled off at half time.

Didn't LJ say recently in his Times interview that Kelly had ignored his instructions in that game and was hauled off to teach him a lesson. Something like "right that's it, bang you're coming off". He painted a picture of being confrontational and demanding.

I was interested to see yesterday that when LJ took Kelly off (rightly so, he was dreadfully casual and careless) LJ disappeared down the tunnel once the instruction was in and before Kelly left the pitch, emerging only once all was done and Kelly sat down.

Now he may well have needed a Turkey induced convenience break, but it just struck me as interesting following his comments in the press about coaching Lloyd, that he avoided even having to speak to or acknowledge his performance when he came off.

I think that is behaviour we would all more readily associate with LJ than the in your face leadership he projected in his Times interview: actually very non-confrontational, to the point of avoiding awkward situations where he has to front up to players.

That's not a criticism by the way, on the sidelines during a match is not the time to be coaching mistakes out of players, least of all those you've just taken off - I just thought his comment in the Times was puffed up and wondered if we'd see evidence of it.  

[RedM]

Interesting @Olé. I didn’t realise LJ had moved away during the substitution but I did see Kelly clearly wasn’t  happy (possibly with himself as much as anything) and he threw his coat down and sat there without it for a while. He was poor yesterday but listening to LJ on the radio later he was very supportive saying something about Kelly only having played such few games and how young he was, making the point even seasoned Pro’s might struggle doing some of the things LK was being asked to do/ expected to do by fans. I was only half listening but I think that’s the gist of it.

[Der no.2]

Interesting observation Olé.

LJ does appear to lack that “in your face, confrontational” part to his character and it is this trait that helps to command respect from players. How difficult issues are dealt with leads to either success or mediocrity.

[Red-Robbo]

Both Kelly and Pack had dreadful games yesterday. 

Probably Lloyd's worst since the nightmareathon at the end of last season.

Precisely why they looked so different to their performances v Norwich and Derby is a moot point.

It does make a nonsense of Johnson's post-match comment: "Everyone played well".

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, RedM said:

Interesting @Olé. I didn’t realise LJ had moved away during the substitution but I did see Kelly clearly wasn’t  happy (possibly with himself as much as anything) and he threw his coat down and sat there without it for a while. He was poor yesterday but listening to LJ on the radio later he was very supportive saying something about Kelly only having played such few games and how young he was, making the point even seasoned Pro’s might struggle doing some of the things LK was being asked to do/ expected to do by fans. I was only half listening but I think that’s the gist of it.

I bet Kelly is getting fed up of being talked up AND talked down in the same interview by LJ.  I think it sends mixed messages.

In response to Gregor’s question re Lloyd and Watkins, why not answer briefly with “yeah, it was a good clash, Lloyd did well’.  Leave it at that.  What we get is Lloyd this, big club that, etc, followed by Watkins was top of my list, etc.  He really does need to say less.

[Major Isewater]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I bet Kelly is getting fed up of being talked up AND talked down in the same interview by LJ.  I think it sends mixed messages.

In response to Gregor’s question re Lloyd and Watkins, why not answer briefly with “yeah, it was a good clash, Lloyd did well’.  Leave it at that.  What we get is Lloyd this, big club that, etc, followed by Watkins was top of my list, etc.  He really does need to say less.

Less is more .

[Der no.2]

Kelly was asleep for the Brentford throw-in that led to their goal. Woeful defending.

[Hampshire Red]

I got shot down last week for suggesting he is the weakest link in a strong back 5(including GK) 

If anyone was there yesterday please tell me why I was wrong. I want him to be the very next academy, LJ success story but he's been a liability defensively. He also can't pass the ball forward to a City player which is odd as he was getting in good crosses at the start of his league career