Entertainment Value

[ScottishRed]

4 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

Do you blame them to be fair RW? It wasn't exactly stimulating let alone 'edge of the seat' stuff. No offence meant. 

I'm not going to go into 'anti LJ' mode, regular readers know my thoughts but where on earth are we, as a club, going? Rebuild every year? Tread water? Become the new Ipswich / boring mid table Championship club (yes, I know they would love to be that this season)? Is that enough?

Fans will drift away and as the club hierarchy fought so hard to get us our highest attendances / support in years, it's a huge mistake IMHO. Something has to change to reignite that spark or people will vote with their feet / money. 

Essentially, it's BORING!!! 

It is hugely frustrating.

Yesterday was utterly dire and yes, boring. We were outplayed by Brentford, and yes, they look a decent side and they will probably finish higher up the league than we will but that is no excuse for a lack of purpose and drive from us.

At 1-1 yesterday that is when the HC or Manager earns their wages by changing something and driving the players forward, he didn’t - is that because he doesn’t know what to do? There is no doubt in my mind that we were happy enough with a point yesterday, a win would have been great but as long as we did not lose it was OK with both the coaching team and the players.

LJ talks about a lack of leaders on the pitch and he is spot on in that assessment - but he and the club are responsible for that, he has been here almost 3 years and whilst the club and the team have progressed is it enough?

What is the next stage? Is there a next stage or is the owner happy with what he is seeing, content in the fact that attendances are good and relegation looks unlikely - although not impossible.

Whist we all know there was nowhere near 21k there yesterday we all know how clubs can count attendance but the underlying trend should be a worry for the club. I can see it now as the SC’s go on sale the talk of ambition and progression next year - it’s hard to see how that will happen without some steel and desire being brought into the squad - and those are the exact type of players that LJ has a problem managing.

I make no bones about it, I would love to see us in the PL - there is the owners understandable desire for sustainability addressed straight away!

But I simply don’t believe we have the ambition and know how to get there. 

Last January was very telling, I think the club, and the key people running it, are scared of promotion - going up might actually threaten their comfortable cosy life - good salary and little pressure.

Going up would mean we were in a fight for survival from the KO - and whilst expectations would not be high there would be a need to give it a right go and be smart on recruitment and style of play.That does NOT mean spending every penny of the TV money but it does mean showing some know how and some imagination. I think it all sounds too difficult and too much of a personal risk to those involved.

It is telling that the three that left in the summer wanted to progress and wanted to see how far they could take it, how many of the current squad feel that way? I don’t believe we recruit too many ambitious players, we recruit players who are happy at this level and just do enough to stay there.

I also detect a feeling at the club and with a lot of the support that we are now ‘ safe’ in this league and that there will always  be 3 worse teams - that, is a very dangerous view to hold.

We are trading water just now and no statements about a season of transition can hide that - every season could be one of transition as we will always sell if we get the right offer, to a large extent that is the case with the majority of clubs in this league and below but the secret is to replace those that we sell with similar quality and take the opportunity to grow - that is not happening.

I don’t see the desire and the drive, all I see is contentment in where we are and a mis -  guided belief that it’s job done.

As we can’t throw ££ at it, success has to be based on smart recruitment and improving the players - sorry, don’t see that here and I doubt we ever will. I don’t see a hunger and a desire to be the best we can, I see an acceptance of mediocrity and a whole raft of excuses to justify that position.

LJ talked about his ambition in The Times interview 2 weeks back - winning the PL etc - I don’t see that in any aspect of the way he is doing the job - there is only acceptance not ambition and if we continue with that one day we will leave this league but in a different direction than the one we would hope for.

[BobBobSuperBob]

Won’t quote it all but good well written post @ScottishRed

[A Horse With No Name]

35 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

It is hugely frustrating.

Yesterday was utterly dire and yes, boring. We were outplayed by Brentford, and yes, they look a decent side and they will probably finish higher up the league than we will but that is no excuse for a lack of purpose and drive from us.

At 1-1 yesterday that is when the HC or Manager earns their wages by changing something and driving the players forward, he didn’t - is that because he doesn’t know what to do? There is no doubt in my mind that we were happy enough with a point yesterday, a win would have been great but as long as we did not lose it was OK with both the coaching team and the players.

LJ talks about a lack of leaders on the pitch and he is spot on in that assessment - but he and the club are responsible for that, he has been here almost 3 years and whilst the club and the team have progressed is it enough?

What is the next stage? Is there a next stage or is the owner happy with what he is seeing, content in the fact that attendances are good and relegation looks unlikely - although not impossible.

Whist we all know there was nowhere near 21k there yesterday we all know how clubs can count attendance but the underlying trend should be a worry for the club. I can see it now as the SC’s go on sale the talk of ambition and progression next year - it’s hard to see how that will happen without some steel and desire being brought into the squad - and those are the exact type of players that LJ has a problem managing.

I make no bones about it, I would love to see us in the PL - there is the owners understandable desire for sustainability addressed straight away!

But I simply don’t believe we have the ambition and know how to get there. 

Last January was very telling, I think the club, and the key people running it, are scared of promotion - going up might actually threaten their comfortable cosy life - good salary and little pressure.

Going up would mean we were in a fight for survival from the KO - and whilst expectations would not be high there would be a need to give it a right go and be smart on recruitment and style of play.That does NOT mean spending every penny of the TV money but it does mean showing some know how and some imagination. I think it all sounds too difficult and too much of a personal risk to those involved.

It is telling that the three that left in the summer wanted to progress and wanted to see how far they could take it, how many of the current squad feel that way? I don’t believe we recruit too many ambitious players, we recruit players who are happy at this level and just do enough to stay there.

I also detect a feeling at the club and with a lot of the support that we are now ‘ safe’ in this league and that there will always  be 3 worse teams - that, is a very dangerous view to hold.

We are trading water just now and no statements about a season of transition can hide that - every season could be one of transition as we will always sell if we get the right offer, to a large extent that is the case with the majority of clubs in this league and below but the secret is to replace those that we sell with similar quality and take the opportunity to grow - that is not happening.

I don’t see the desire and the drive, all I see is contentment in where we are and a mis -  guided belief that it’s job done.

As we can’t throw ££ at it, success has to be based on smart recruitment and improving the players - sorry, don’t see that here and I doubt we ever will. I don’t see a hunger and a desire to be the best we can, I see an acceptance of mediocrity and a whole raft of excuses to justify that position.

LJ talked about his ambition in The Times interview 2 weeks back - winning the PL etc - I don’t see that in any aspect of the way he is doing the job - there is only acceptance not ambition and if we continue with that one day we will leave this league but in a different direction than the one we would hope for.

Absolutely spot on. Great post.

[gordie]

9 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I've just seen his comments about today's match.

He really hasn't a clue! For the money spent on players over the last three years, it's worse than Millen, McInnes and O'Driscoll.

As much as it has been shit this season it really does not compare with the SOD’s reign, now that really was shit and that was in a league below. It’s not that far off being as bad mind

[Red Army 75]

3 minutes ago, gordie said:

As much as it has been shit this season it really does not compare with the SOD’s reign, now that really was shit and that was in a league below. It’s not that far off being as bad mind

That’s the thing for me . It’s been so shit recently I can’t remember all the shit before. 

[Jacki]

For me, it’s all about being entertained and enjoying the match day experience, which isn’t happening this season  

I missed yesterday’s game but have been to the vast majority of the home games this season and have seen the away matches that have been on the red button. I’ve only properly enjoyed 3 games all season (Blackburn and Norwich at home and WBA away).

The rest have been deadly dull, predictable affairs where the 2 teams have cancelled each other out and looked to nick a point or a 1-0 win. That’s largely because of how we set up but the majority of our opponents have played shit football too. 

I don’t think Johnson will go, and I don’t think he should if we’re being fair and objective and judging him on results. I just hope the second half of the season is a lot more exciting to watch than the first, because I can see a lot of people not renewing if the way we’re playing carries on. 

[UREDZ]

I am not an LJ fan but wouldn't just blame him for the lame match day experience. Modern football is absolutely dire! I have been once this season and paid over £30 to sit on my own in zero atmosphere! It's just to hard these days to rock up with your mates on the day of a game and all sit/stand sing together at a reasonable price. 

[headhunter]

1 hour ago, ScottishRed said:

It is hugely frustrating.

Yesterday was utterly dire and yes, boring. We were outplayed by Brentford, and yes, they look a decent side and they will probably finish higher up the league than we will but that is no excuse for a lack of purpose and drive from us.

At 1-1 yesterday that is when the HC or Manager earns their wages by changing something and driving the players forward, he didn’t - is that because he doesn’t know what to do? There is no doubt in my mind that we were happy enough with a point yesterday, a win would have been great but as long as we did not lose it was OK with both the coaching team and the players.

LJ talks about a lack of leaders on the pitch and he is spot on in that assessment - but he and the club are responsible for that, he has been here almost 3 years and whilst the club and the team have progressed is it enough?

What is the next stage? Is there a next stage or is the owner happy with what he is seeing, content in the fact that attendances are good and relegation looks unlikely - although not impossible.

Whist we all know there was nowhere near 21k there yesterday we all know how clubs can count attendance but the underlying trend should be a worry for the club. I can see it now as the SC’s go on sale the talk of ambition and progression next year - it’s hard to see how that will happen without some steel and desire being brought into the squad - and those are the exact type of players that LJ has a problem managing.

I make no bones about it, I would love to see us in the PL - there is the owners understandable desire for sustainability addressed straight away!

But I simply don’t believe we have the ambition and know how to get there. 

Last January was very telling, I think the club, and the key people running it, are scared of promotion - going up might actually threaten their comfortable cosy life - good salary and little pressure.

Going up would mean we were in a fight for survival from the KO - and whilst expectations would not be high there would be a need to give it a right go and be smart on recruitment and style of play.That does NOT mean spending every penny of the TV money but it does mean showing some know how and some imagination. I think it all sounds too difficult and too much of a personal risk to those involved.

It is telling that the three that left in the summer wanted to progress and wanted to see how far they could take it, how many of the current squad feel that way? I don’t believe we recruit too many ambitious players, we recruit players who are happy at this level and just do enough to stay there.

I also detect a feeling at the club and with a lot of the support that we are now ‘ safe’ in this league and that there will always  be 3 worse teams - that, is a very dangerous view to hold.

We are trading water just now and no statements about a season of transition can hide that - every season could be one of transition as we will always sell if we get the right offer, to a large extent that is the case with the majority of clubs in this league and below but the secret is to replace those that we sell with similar quality and take the opportunity to grow - that is not happening.

I don’t see the desire and the drive, all I see is contentment in where we are and a mis -  guided belief that it’s job done.

As we can’t throw ££ at it, success has to be based on smart recruitment and improving the players - sorry, don’t see that here and I doubt we ever will. I don’t see a hunger and a desire to be the best we can, I see an acceptance of mediocrity and a whole raft of excuses to justify that position.

LJ talked about his ambition in The Times interview 2 weeks back - winning the PL etc - I don’t see that in any aspect of the way he is doing the job - there is only acceptance not ambition and if we continue with that one day we will leave this league but in a different direction than the one we would hope for.

He has built a team in the image of himself as a player - bang average, do just enough to get by but never take risks.

He spends most of his time berating the 4th official - for what purpose?

Didn't look like he'd had a new outfit bought for him as a Chrissy present this year!!!!him 

[BobBobSuperBob]

I thought what summed up the tedious aspects of the modern game is when Brentford , in addition to constant pitiful theatrics , made one of their substitutions 

Bentley left his goal and walked all the way over to their bench to get a drink , before their substituted player had even walked to the bench - thought they were changing keepers for a moment

Tedious 

[Frenchay Red]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

I thought what summed up the tedious aspects of the modern game is when Brentford , in addition to constant pitiful theatrics , made one of their substitutions 

Bentley left his goal and walked all the way over to their bench to get a drink , before their substituted player had even walked to the bench - thought they were changing keepers for a moment

Tedious 

I thought for a moment that as we offered such little attacking threat they were being cheeky and swapping their goalie for an outfield player! 

[Bristol Oil Services]

10 hours ago, hodge said:

Really hope people hold our next manager to needing to have both the manner of play and results to not get hounded.

The present one could really help himself by reining in the self-promotion a bit. The gap between the self-promotion and the suggestion of what is to come, just around the corner/next transfer window, the gap between that and what actually happens, what we see with our own eyes on a Saturday, is what (for some) invites scrutiny, and scepticism. And worse.

[Robbored]

40 minutes ago, Jacki said:

For me, it’s all about being entertained and enjoying the match day experience, which isn’t happening this season  

I missed yesterday’s game but have been to the vast majority of the home games this season and have seen the away matches that have been on the red button. I’ve only properly enjoyed 3 games all season (Blackburn and Norwich at home and WBA away).

The rest have been deadly dull, predictable affairs where the 2 teams have cancelled each other out and looked to nick a point or a 1-0 win. That’s largely because of how we set up

The points above reflects exactly my views on Senior and I get pretty much persistent flak for holding that view and now certain posters are saying the same about the drab play served up by LJ................are football fans fickle or what?.....

[Floatn Over]

An excellent post by ScottishRed, sums up the current status accurately IMO.

This season I feel there is a contentment with treading water, that is clear to the players and is now to supporters.  There is nothing wrong with this when you look at the teams struggling in the PL now but it does make tedious watching for sure.  I have been attending since 1959 and I'll keep gong but the various comments of unrest earlier are understandable.

How long this continues is more to the point.  For what it's worth I see the same format year on year until one year when everything hopefully clicks into place to be able to challenge and more importantly have a good chance of carrying that through.

The current status could be changed of course; just imagine a few modern day equivalents of our former players with that certain "something special" added to this squad in January (Scotty, a fit Lee Trundle, JET on skates, a fit Nicky Maynard, Leroy Lita, Albert etc) and it could take off but that would be costly and short term and we ain't doing either folks ! (probably correctly)

[MC RISK77]

10 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I've just seen his comments about today's match.

He really hasn't a clue! For the money spent on players over the last three years, it's worse than Millen, McInnes and O'Driscoll.

Haha no chance is it ever that bad

[TV Tom]

Really considering not going on Saturday, it’s so boring.

[Aaron-Bcfc]

11 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Nearly 7000 ST holders not appearing for Norwich game wasn’t just down to Sky or a tea time kick off !

Where do you find out the actual attendances mate?

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Where do you find out the actual attendances mate?

Not sure Aaron tbh 

Some were published a while back but I’m not sure from where they were sourced

Obviously the Club know the figures , and for sure SL will

[weymouth red]

We are playing poor football at home this year which makes the crowd flat I think if we carry on like this the crowds will dwindle as the excitement is not there you can except bad results if you see an effort on and off the pitch 

 

[Super]

13 minutes ago, harrys said:

Really considering not going on Saturday, it’s so boring.

I dont blame you tbh. You already know it will be a dire game with little atmostphere.

[swanker]

11 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Nearly 7000 ST holders not appearing for Norwich game wasn’t just down to Sky or a tea time kick off !

 

Me personally, I guess results or points are my priority 

Seeing so little intent or attacking plan is extremely frustrating and very tedious right now though.

Totally agree with you on this point Bob

[SStandUp]

11 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

 No one minds playing shit occasionally and winning, no one minds playing shot occasionally and getting spanked, so long as it looks like you’re trying to play football. 

But we’re not. And it’s become loathsome. 6 unbeaten and I couldn’t give a shit. 

Derby, Birmingham, Norwich, Ipswich? 

We played pretty well in those games. 

Yoire absolutely deluded.

We aren't playing like Barca every week, but we're an average championship team currently and that's what we're producing. Sometimes we look good, sometimes we look bad. That probably sums up every championship team 

[Bazooka Joe]

7 hours ago, BristolNorthEndRed said:

Have been a year on year season ticket holder in the Dolman since 1986, the year of the Freight Rover Trophy win at Wembley beating Bolton Wanderers 3-0.

I am completely bored to death at games now and have been for quite a while. Honestly don’t think I’ll renew next season. Considered not renewing this season, but eventually gave LJ and co. another season in hope something would change and I’d get £499 worth of entertainment.

The talk of fast, expansive, attacking football has either been bullshit, or, it’s my fault for not being easily impressed.  Either way maybe I’ll give it a break until LJ has gone (if he ever does in my lifetime [I am in my 60’s]).

I think that was a reference to our opponents style of play.

In most games, we're the complete reverse of this - pedestrian, fearful and predictable.

[Undy English]

11 hours ago, Super said:

Does it matter to you or is it all about the result? Have been bored at so many home games this season we really have been poor to watch at times. Seems a few are starting to stay away and you really can't blame them. 

Results are important, and yes, a supporter should support through thick and thin - but there has to be give and take on both sides. If the club are churning out dreadful, un-entertaining football each week, especially over the Christmas period where people have a lot of other stuff going on, it's going to create discontent.

For me, I haven't enjoyed going down the Gate for some time. If it wasn't for the pre-match beers and social with mates, probably wouldn't bother as the football isn't worth hanging around for.

My brother plays good standard non-league football. The whole experience is far better at the moment, especially the quality of the game itself.

[Andy082005]

43 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The points above reflects exactly my views on Senior and I get pretty much persistent flak for holding that view and now certain posters are saying the same about the drab play served up by LJ................are football fans fickle or what?.....

All joking aside Robbo.....genuinely interested to know your take on Lee Johnson now, his plan and the football we are producing ?

You've always been an admirer of him ...just wondering if your opinion has changed? And how you feel now?

[Fordy62]

9 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

Derby, Birmingham, Norwich, Ipswich? 

We played pretty well in those games. 

Yoire absolutely deluded.

We aren't playing like Barca every week, but we're an average championship team currently and that's what we're producing. Sometimes we look good, sometimes we look bad. That probably sums up every championship team 

You’re absolutely deluded if you think we played well in the Birmingham and Ipswich games. It’s a good job Ipswich were slightly shitter and Your judgement is being clouded by the result at Blues rather than the performance. 

Truth be told we looked good against Derby and fairly good against Norwich. That’s pretty slim pickings for as long as I remember. For every good performance there are at least 4 bad ones. No one can argue with that.

I don’t want or expect us to play like Barca every week, I just want us to attempt to play football... but 80% of the time we’re not making any effort whatsoever. 

If what we’re seeing currently is an average championship team then I’d sooner we got relegated. 

[Andy082005]

15 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

Derby, Birmingham, Norwich, Ipswich? 

We played pretty well in those games. 

Yoire absolutely deluded.

We aren't playing like Barca every week, but we're an average championship team currently and that's what we're producing. Sometimes we look good, sometimes we look bad. That probably sums up every championship team 

We were shocking against Birmingham and poor Vs Ipswich...it just so happened they were worse on the day by a mile 

[Olé]

21 minutes ago, Super said:

You already know it will be a dire game with little atmostphere.

I keep hearing people moaning that the new Ashton Gate is boring since the rebuild and while I agree that the club has shifted people around to the point of eliminating traditional pockets of atmosphere, I wouldn't overlook that there is one other constant at the rebuilt Ashton Gate that is far more culpable and that is the style of football.

The best atmosphere at AG is always when our team is going hell for leather in the last ten minutes for a winner or occasionally under GJ for a much needed comeback. That sense of entitlement that anything less than a win on our own home patch is points dropped and a gung ho attitude to avoiding it at all costs. Players bombing forward.

I know the Championship is a far more unforgiving division than League One with the potential to be picked apart, but under LJ at Ashton Gate there hasn't been much blood and thunder this past three years, more so surrendering leads in the final half hour or running out of ideas. That's why AG is flat, it would be the same if AG was rebuilt or not. 

Agree about Saturday by the way, we know the script for any of these sorts of games, the players will freeze as per usual. I'd get Eisa and other under-used players in and go attack with some players that have no fear and something to prove - I mean if you're not going to play them against Rotherham at home then why have them at all.

[oldstandrobin]

Nearly 50 years after taking the wife on our first date to AG, I bought her a ticket for yesterday as we wouldnt be having family for Boxing Day, and as a ST holder of many years I always have been there.She has come to many matches over the years and even the £30 I had to pay for her ticket (Gold match ??????) didnt put me off. Pasty and Bovril before the match.....heaven !! I cannot recall a match where both of us were so b****y bored with a lot of negative football from City, tippy tappy passing and losing possession and our HC diving into the dugout when Brentford scored, unlike their guy being on the technical area willing the Bees on. She commented after the match that she had never been so bored watching City and understood my moods coming home match after match since SC left. Well, BCFC, even if we fail to move back to Spain next year, its £30 I wont be spending next years and as she said ' Would have been better spent getting me £30 worth of knickers .

[BigAl&Toby]

11 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

You’re absolutely deluded if you think we played well in the Birmingham and Ipswich games. It’s a good job Ipswich were slightly shitter and Your judgement is being clouded by the result at Blues rather than the performance. 

Truth be told we looked good against Derby and fairly good against Norwich. That’s pretty slim pickings for as long as I remember. For every good performance there are at least 4 bad ones. No one can argue with that.

I don’t want or expect us to play like Barca every week, I just want us to attempt to play football... but 80% of the time we’re not making any effort whatsoever. 

If what we’re seeing currently is an average championship team then I’d sooner we got relegated. 

So would I. See us relegated if this is what it’s going to be like week in week out. And let’s be honest. It’s been like this now for nearly 12 months.

I’m thinking that if this is what the future holds then it ain’t rosy. Ok if you want “an experience” but not if you want to see real football.

I well remember the days of TC and JJ - and JJ waving his arms as if he meant it - unlike the heroes of today. 

I lost count of how many mascots were announced before the game yesterday but I reckon most of them might have even got a game.

Relegation and rebuild might well be something that kicks BCFC into what it could so easily have been earlier this year.

[054123]

We’ve got it in us to play some great stuff, easily good enough for top 6.

Is it the players or the coach that are inhibiting this ability and not allowing it to flourish often enough?