Weimann - time for a rest

[headhunter]

Our signing of Weimann looked sound in many respects - proven Championship player blah, blah. Probably seen by MA as a solid replacement for Reid and with a flourish of goals in August it looked that way.

Thing is he has never been a prolific goalscorer and I know enough Villa and Derby fans whose view has always been "gives 100% but little end product". Since the goals have stopped I doubt any would disagree with that about his performances here [nice assist vs. Norwich]. 

My view is we should start Eisa tell him to run himself into the ground for 60 minutes then bring Weimann on. Got to be worth a go hasn't it?

Btw, this sold our best players mantra doesn't wash with me. Webster & Kalas much better footballers than Flinty and Bryan though the former's goals are being missed - haven't checked but maybe this year we've conceded less?

 

[Major Isewater]

4 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Our signing of Weimann looked sound in many respects - proven Championship player blah, blah. Probably seen by MA as a solid replacement for Reid and with a flourish of goals in August it looked that way.

Thing is he has never been a prolific goalscorer and I know enough Villa and Derby fans whose view has always been "gives 100% but little end product". Since the goals have stopped I doubt any would disagree with that about his performances here [nice assist vs. Norwich]. 

My view is we should start Eisa tell him to run himself into the ground for 60 minutes then bring Weimann on. Got to be worth a go hasn't it?

Btw, this sold our best players mantra doesn't wash with me. Webster & Kalas much better footballers than Flinty and Bryan though the former's goals are being missed - haven't checked but maybe this year we've conceded less?

 

I thought AW played well in the last two games,  ( Assist for Famara ) , looked very fit v Brentford.

Unlucky to have a goal ruled offside .

It’s just not working for him in front of goal but I’m sure that will come .

We need to get the best out of him and many others ! 

[phantom]

To me he is similar to Taylor, both of their strongest points are their work rate, and sadly neither of them ever look like scoring

Weimann has turned into the player we all feared we were signing - lots of effort but a poor goal scoring ratio, just a shame as he started the season on fire

Not sure on that basis he needs a rest, as above he is playing well, just not as a goalscorer

[where's the joy]

Weiman has to be dropped. you are looking for some intuitive spark from your fellow striker and he doesn't click with Fammy.

Eisa has got to be given some game time or he will be another Engval, getting splinters on the bench.

he has that x factor about him. give him a run LJ and don't be pig headed

[wayne allisons tongues]

Trouble is he was playing well up front and scoring goals. Fammy has his ban completed and moves up front and Weimann ends up out wide.

 

was sat in South Stand Wednesday and the endless runs he made into space behind the full back second half and never received the ball was shocking. 

Pack was the worse culprit, got the bell controlled it, looked up and then played it backwards. You could see Weimann’s frustration every time, He must feel hard done by, Taylor came on and played upfront why not move Weimann there instead of subbing him.

[The Bard]

10 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I thought AW played well in the last two games,  ( Assist for Famara ) , looked very fit v Brentford.

Unlucky to have a goal ruled offside .

It’s just not working for him in front of goal but I’m sure that will come .

We need to get the best out of him and many others ! 

Really Major?  He was anonymous against Brentford.  Taylor looks more likely to produce something if you ask me.  Not that I'm saying Taylor is going to take the EFL by storm..

[aa_bcfc]

IMHO Weinman has offered very little for weeks. Needs dropping not ‘a rest’. 

Give Eisa or Taylor a run of half a dozen games. 

[JoeAman08]

15 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Really Major?  He was anonymous against Brentford.  Taylor looks more likely to produce something if you ask me.  Not that I'm saying Taylor is going to take the EFL by storm..

I don’t think he is anonymous. He often makes good runs but just doesn’t get spotted. Brentford would have been a good one to play centrally as they played a very high line and he has the most pace of our forward options. As it was he wouod have done it from the wing had any of our midfielders had the vision to spot him. Must have been 3 times he was free pointing and calling for a through ball and missed everytime. 3 chances to be one on one I think he scores at least one and we do not have this conversation. Though for as much as LJ scouts oppostion weakness and even talked anout their high line he played Diedhiou alone centrally who doesn’t have pace to get on them. 

[The Bard]

6 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I don’t think he is anonymous. He often makes good runs but just doesn’t get spotted. Brentford would have been a good one to play centrally as they played a very high line and he has the most pace of our forward options. As it was he wouod have done it from the wing had any of our midfielders had the vision to spot him. Must have been 3 times he was free pointing and calling for a through ball and missed everytime. 3 chances to be one on one I think he scores at least one and we do not have this conversation. Though for as much as LJ scouts oppostion weakness and even talked anout their high line he played Diedhiou alone centrally who doesn’t have pace to get on them. 

Good points about how we were set up.  I was speaking more generally about AW though.  Just not impressed by him. If he is Bobby Reid's replacement then we need to sack whoever touted that idea. We really miss Bobby Reid - there is little connection between the attack and midfield and he used to provide that as well as get in the box and be in the right areas to nick goals.  We don't do that enough..

[DownendRed97]

Makes intelligent runs but doesn’t have a lot of pace. These runs are more useful down the middle when he can create space for others but it’s wasted out wide. I like his work rate but at the moment he is ineffective and needs dropping.

[phantom]

47 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

was sat in South Stand Wednesday and the endless runs he made into space behind the full back second half and never received the ball was shocking. 

Agree, but it wasn't just him there were times when Pisano was all alone on the wing too - the ball just not played forward fast enough

[JoeAman08]

11 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Good points about how we were set up.  I was speaking more generally about AW though.  Just not impressed by him. If he is Bobby Reid's replacement then we need to sack whoever touted that idea. We really miss Bobby Reid - there is little connection between the attack and midfield and he used to provide that as well as get in the box and be in the right areas to nick goals.  We don't do that enough..

I get the sentiment for sure. Probably a bit of a waste of money for what he will bring but definitely is our best 11 players imo. In theory he was a decent replacement for Reid because he will work hard and press but is not the finisher, does not link up as well or get into as good if the positions Reid did. He does those things ok but Reid did them all exceptionally. Think we got sucked in on Weimann because of this. Whereas we may have been better off getting a top class mover and finisher with no link up. So 2 of 3 traits. Idk Weimann a good player with good IQ but imo will look lost in a team without vision which i think is us

[Davefevs]

I would use tomorrow’s game to try Eliasson on the left and O’Dowda on the right.  Eliasson had started to build a good relationship with Kelly playing down the left, and now hasn’t started the last 3 (draws).  Interestingly it looks like Kelly misses him too, hasn’t been at his best either. Could it be Eliasson and O’Dowda give Kelly different angles / options?

Alternatively play O’Dowda instead of Paterson....but he’ll have to be prepared to run beyond Diedhiou (same for Brownhill).

I do think we need to see a different option to Weimann, unless he is allowed to roam along the forward line.  Playing him as a winger is stifling his contribution.

[Gazred]

If he's not going to play up front, then don't play him. He does a job out wide but would much rather NE or COD out there.

[pillred]

2 hours ago, where's the joy said:

Weiman has to be dropped. you are looking for some intuitive spark from your fellow striker and he doesn't click with Fammy.

Eisa has got to be given some game time or he will be another Engval, getting splinters on the bench.

he has that x factor about him. give him a run LJ and don't be pig headed

Can't believe he didn't get 15 minutes against Brentford, we were crying out for a bit of pace upfront, why did we buy him, and every time he gets a chance the pressure on him to do something must be immense, why don't we start him in one game, Rotherham would be the perfect game for him at least we could properly as fans make up our minds. I imagine he could be our secret weapon somebody who can do that something a little bit different, a bit like kodjia unpredictable.

[ashton_fan]

2 hours ago, The Bard said:

Really Major?  He was anonymous against Brentford.  Taylor looks more likely to produce something if you ask me.  Not that I'm saying Taylor is going to take the EFL by storm..

I was impressed the way he was giving an early pass to Diedhiou in the box at every opportunity against Brentford. He's one of those players that managers appreciate because he runs non-stop and creates space for others but supporters criticise because he's not flash or got any tricks.

[East End Old Boy]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

the ball just not played forward fast enough

And this has been the stumbling block for the last 11 months at home.

[Sturny]

Can't see many reasons to start Weimann over Taylor at the moment 

[Spike]

Weimann should play in the middle as part of a front two pairing or not at all, he's intelligent and makes space around him but we don't have the creative passers to get it to him in wide positions. 

Our biggest weakness when attacking and one of the reasons we create so few chances is that we can't play a ball through the middle. I also think this is why LJ has us working on crossing so much recently, unfortunately that just isn't the answer to the problem. As many people have pointed out before, crossing is a statistically low chance way to create goals, in fact i remember seeing a statistical analysis that said it was around the 6% mark that a cross would meet an attacking player and result in a goal when in comparison to playing through the middle was a tiny percentage. 

Weimann can be effective in the middle but he needs the supply, or he can create space for another striker but again, there needs to be that pass from the midfield that creates the chance. 

I genuinely feel that the issue is not Weimann but the manner in which our team is being coached. Rather than find that key creative midfielder we've been crying out for we've instead changed our attacking game plan to plaster over that hole in our attacking game. 

It's clear to see that any top team in the Championship can play through the middle and that the reason they create chances and win games is because they're not one dimensional as we currently are.

I know many people say we need to support LJ but I still think our key issue is the coaching.  To look at our attacking strategy, we're choosing to prioritise crossing despite it being clear that it is creating more missed opportunities than actual end product. If you look at our success last season it was all from playing with multiple attacking strategies, we came in from wide positions, we crossed, we played through the middle and most importantly we mixed things up and had the right players in the right positions.

This season we focus mainly on crossing and attacking the wings, we put Weimann out wide where his best assets are wasted, we cross to a bunch of attacking players who lack height or heading ability with the exception of Fammy and we go backwards and sideways rather than play through the middle which makes teams uncomfortable to defend. 

I stand by my argument that our issue is not our squad, in fact I'd say our defence is pretty solid until the rest of the team drops deep to try and protect a small lead that ultimately welcomes the opposition to attack us more, build confidence and ultimately stop any chance of us putting the game to rest. We have players who can run at defenders, we have players who work hard, we have players who are intelligent, we have players who are technically gifted, the only thing we seem to be lacking is actual direction from our man in charge. 

[Im_over_ere]

Weimann scored his goals early in the season when paired with Taylor, and Fam was suspended. Maybe now that Taylor is fit, give this pairing another go to see if it can restart Weimanns season. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

Weimann should play in the middle as part of a front two pairing or not at all, he's intelligent and makes space around him but we don't have the creative passers to get it to him in wide positions. 

Our biggest weakness when attacking and one of the reasons we create so few chances is that we can't play a ball through the middle. I also think this is why LJ has us working on crossing so much recently, unfortunately that just isn't the answer to the problem. As many people have pointed out before, crossing is a statistically low chance way to create goals, in fact i remember seeing a statistical analysis that said it was around the 6% mark that a cross would meet an attacking player and result in a goal when in comparison to playing through the middle was a tiny percentage. 

Weimann can be effective in the middle but he needs the supply, or he can create space for another striker but again, there needs to be that pass from the midfield that creates the chance. 

I genuinely feel that the issue is not Weimann but the manner in which our team is being coached. Rather than find that key creative midfielder we've been crying out for we've instead changed our attacking game plan to plaster over that hole in our attacking game. 

It's clear to see that any top team in the Championship can play through the middle and that the reason they create chances and win games is because they're not one dimensional as we currently are.

I know many people say we need to support LJ but I still think our key issue is the coaching.  To look at our attacking strategy, we're choosing to prioritise crossing despite it being clear that it is creating more missed opportunities than actual end product. If you look at our success last season it was all from playing with multiple attacking strategies, we came in from wide positions, we crossed, we played through the middle and most importantly we mixed things up and had the right players in the right positions.

This season we focus mainly on crossing and attacking the wings, we put Weimann out wide where his best assets are wasted, we cross to a bunch of attacking players who lack height or heading ability with the exception of Fammy and we go backwards and sideways rather than play through the middle which makes teams uncomfortable to defend. 

I stand by my argument that our issue is not our squad, in fact I'd say our defence is pretty solid until the rest of the team drops deep to try and protect a small lead that ultimately welcomes the opposition to attack us more, build confidence and ultimately stop any chance of us putting the game to rest. We have players who can run at defenders, we have players who work hard, we have players who are intelligent, we have players who are technically gifted, the only thing we seem to be lacking is actual direction from our man in charge. 

Good thoughtful post Spike. 

I think the other thing I’ve been thinking is that if we play the ball wide when attacking we won’t get so exposed if we lose it there. It’s almost a bit defensively minded too. There is an emphasis on not getting exposed, that’s why Pack rarely ventures from his “cage” in front of the back 4, and is it any coincidence that he’s not enjoyed his best run of form this season. 

From the moment we got caught v West Brom, despite playing well, Pack has not been allowed any freedom. That was when the cage was mentioned. I can see the sense against top teams away, but not at home. 

[Allwaysred]

Start Eisa over him will need pace in behind tommorow. 

[marcofisher]

1 hour ago, Im_over_ere said:

Weimann scored his goals early in the season when paired with Taylor, and Fam was suspended. Maybe now that Taylor is fit, give this pairing another go to see if it can restart Weimanns season. 

Why though as he is never going to be as much of a goalscorer as Fammy is? I don't think building our strike force around two players who don't look like scoring ever is really the answer. Drop Weimann and put Eliasson (a natural winger) on the wing. Either that or take Pato out and put Weimann in the hole playing off Fammy, like Reid played in last year, he would certainly get more space to make his intelligent runs and would offer a lot more work rate off the ball. 

[1960maaan]

29 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

Why though as he is never going to be as much of a goalscorer as Fammy is? I don't think building our strike force around two players who don't look like scoring ever is really the answer. Drop Weimann and put Eliasson (a natural winger) on the wing. Either that or take Pato out and put Weimann in the hole playing off Fammy, like Reid played in last year, he would certainly get more space to make his intelligent runs and would offer a lot more work rate off the ball. 

Weimann got something like 5 in 6 playing up front at the start of the season, who knows what would have happened if he would have kept that place.
Now I'm not saying he would have carried on at that rate, but we'll never know how many he would have now. His confidence was sky high and he was playing as a main striker, something I don't think he's done for a long time. I agree with dropping Pato and playing Weimann in a position where his runs and running can do most damage.
It's annoying when people say , look at the difference that Taylor made Saturday, if Weimann was played there I think the game could have been very different, or at least better. He is totally wasted wide, but I think LJ plays him there because he'll run and run and run and he even covered at fullback. 
Odds are Rotherham will sit in Saturday, so it would make sense to play 2 strikers. If (as many of us think. ) Patersons name comes pre printed on the team sheet , I'd play him right wing , with ODowda left. I expect to dominate possession , so I think width will be important.

[bengalcub]

7 hours ago, where's the joy said:

Weiman has to be dropped. you are looking for some intuitive spark from your fellow striker and he doesn't click with Fammy.

Eisa has got to be given some game time or he will be another Engval, getting splinters on the bench.

he has that x factor about him. give him a run LJ and don't be pig headed

Rotherham at home has to be the most ideal game to start eisa in , start him and give the crowd something to get behind .

[bristolcitysweden]

Played out of position but doing his best with long runs in to the box supporting our attack. No complaints from me. 

[marcofisher]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

Weimann got something like 5 in 6 playing up front at the start of the season, who knows what would have happened if he would have kept that place.
Now I'm not saying he would have carried on at that rate, but we'll never know how many he would have now. His confidence was sky high and he was playing as a main striker, something I don't think he's done for a long time. I agree with dropping Pato and playing Weimann in a position where his runs and running can do most damage.
It's annoying when people say , look at the difference that Taylor made Saturday, if Weimann was played there I think the game could have been very different, or at least better. He is totally wasted wide, but I think LJ plays him there because he'll run and run and run and he even covered at fullback. 
Odds are Rotherham will sit in Saturday, so it would make sense to play 2 strikers. If (as many of us think. ) Patersons name comes pre printed on the team sheet , I'd play him right wing , with ODowda left. I expect to dominate possession , so I think width will be important.

He was only dropped for Fammy after he stopped scoring though, Fammy was coming off the bench for a fair few games and Weimann's goals dried up. 

[shelts]

A little ahead of Marley Watkins due to his early season form and goals . Not good enough for the role he’s being asked to do for us 

[MC RISK77]

9 hours ago, where's the joy said:

Weiman has to be dropped. you are looking for some intuitive spark from your fellow striker and he doesn't click with Fammy.

Eisa has got to be given some game time or he will be another Engval, getting splinters on the bench.

he has that x factor about him. give him a run LJ and don't be pig headed

Why does eisa have to play? Don’t get me wrong I would like to see what he is about but I don’t work on the training ground, and lee and team are much more qualified than any of us to judge whether he is ready or not.

i view him as a punt that we took with a longer term view, the jump from league 2 to championship is very big and maybe if as muted he will go on loan then think this is the best move as I have absolutely no doubt a striker whether on loan or permanent will be signed in January.

[Corsham Alf]

9 hours ago, where's the joy said:

Weiman has to be dropped. you are looking for some intuitive spark from your fellow striker and he doesn't click with Fammy.

Eisa has got to be given some game time or he will be another Engval, getting splinters on the bench.

he has that x factor about him. give him a run LJ and don't be pig headed

Weiman made an impressive start but he’s such an unnatural striker and so difficult to play with. I’d def give him a rest and try Eisa.

Weimans best attribute is his energy but he’s not canny enough or instinctive enough at Champs level.

I hate to say it but I feel we’ve bought a player who will never score more than 10 goals a season. I can see why Villa & Derby got rid.