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Our "play-style"


Spike

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53 minutes ago, Nibor said:

Two full backs overlapping, two wide players (on their wrong feet) and one forward who's mostly defending corners or running down the wing.   What is the point in making a low percentage strategy (crossing) even worse by not having anybody in the box when we do get the ball in?  Why play Patterson instead of a second forward?

 

Why play Paterson at all? 

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1 hour ago, Spike said:

Why on earth are we so dedicated to crossing recently? What is LJ trying to accomplish?

This team is not made for the crossing game, our only "big man" spends more time on the floor than he does on his feet and at best he may score one in five headed chances that he actually manages to get on the end of. The rest of our squad are not made for playing the ball in the air and we're predictable to almost every team that plays us right now.
 
Even with just 9 men on the pitch Rotherham almost kept a clean sheet against us and in all fairness were very unlucky not to have kept that goal out. Looking at the stats today, 21 shots and only 7 on target. Whilst we're on the subject of shots, Rotherham managed 18 shots against us! A team in the bottom four teams in the league (bottom three after today), away from home managed to create that much and on many occasions whilst they have 11 men had us pinned back in our own third.
 
We had 13 corners today, I honestly wish I had the statistic of how many cross attempts we had because we certainly had a lot and only managed one goal which came only after they had two fewer players.
 
I genuinely see no love for this team or how they play. When we scored today it felt great, but it didn't feel as great as it should have, it felt more like relief than enjoyment. If I were a player in that team I would be coming away thinking "thank god we got the points but I hate this style of football" because it doesn't compliment us at all. I still don't understand what happened to the LJ we had last season, the man talking to Pep Guardiola about his style of football, the man getting major compliments based on the free-flowing, pass and move football that he'd created. What happened after Bobby, Mags, Flint and Bryan left that has changed his plans so drastically. At least last season we saw glimpses of great football, at times we even saw long periods of it but this current team looks like one who have given up and are just going through the motions.
 
If our plan for the rest of the season is just to aimlessly cross and hope someone gets on the end of it then who is LJ expecting us to bring in?! How is he expecting the fans to want to attend home games if the football on show is actually worse than when we play away from home?
 
I'm just so lost at this point, I've never come away from watching my team win and felt like I'd been kicked in the stomach. I know a lot of the pro-LJ posters will say "Oh you only enjoy watching us lose so you can moan" but that's just showing a total lack of intelligence to understand the situation many of our fans find themselves in. No real fan of this club wants to see us lose, but they also do not want to watch their club play utterly soul-crushing football and scraping 1-0 wins over terrible opposition who have a massive disadvantage either! There is no reason other than LJ that we can't have both, a team that wins and plays good football, LJ himself even proved that last season, so why has he changed his own direction so much and in doing so divided the fans further than he already has?

I posted about this recently. And there are enough stats out there to prove that crossing is the least effective way of scoring. Crosses per goals ratio is huge.

Unless counter attacking we play at a Pedestrian pace. The opposition get organised with nearly every man behind the ball.

It either goes wide and we cross into a packed box that then gets cleared...or we try to play intricate passing into a crowded 18 yard box. Often losing the ball and getting caught on the counter. It seems like we are trying to walk the ball into the goal.

As for Tamara ...it seems like 1 decent game in 10. Stay on your bloody feet man...win something. So much breaks down when he loses the ball or looks to win a free kick. The way he's playing is so ineffective and just slows or breaks down. So frustrating.

We are sound defensively...but wasteful, lethargic and cumbersome when in the final third.

 

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1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

Did we just score from a cross?

Yes with did, but it was against 9 men after countless crosses, which had achieved nothing. As a percentage, the goals we score balanced against the number of crosses going into the box must be very small.   I’ve got to agree with @Spike ‘s comments. City’s play is so unbelievably predictable which makes the job of the opposition’s team manager’s pre-match team talk easy. All he’s got to say is “ they will play it wide then bang in a hopeful cross. Just stay in position in the box and it will be easy to head the ball away.”

Rotherham is a team in the relegation zone, with a minuscule budget, yet until the sendings off they played the best football on the ground and (IMO) looked like the likely winners 

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1 minute ago, spudski said:

We are sound defensively...but wasteful, lethargic and cumbersome when in the final third.

Absolutely and LJ must be quite aware of it. 

He tries to use Pato as a playmaker but he’s not particularly effective but LJ has few other options with Walsh and Smith injured for at least another 6-8 weeks.

I doubt he’ll find a creative player in the upcoming window - quality ones are hard enough to come by in any window. He’ll find another striker but without quality service I can’t see what use he’ll be.

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29 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

But agree - we never look a great threat at corners 

 Care to answer my question Bob?  

As a so say scout you will be able to tell me why the same drab football  served up by Junior is any different to the same drab football served up by Senior?

Or perhaps you’ll simply opt to ignore the question...................:sleeping:

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5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

 Care to answer my question Bob?  

As a so say scout you will be able to tell me why the same drab football  served up by Junior is any different to the same drab football served up by Senior?

Or perhaps you’ll simply opt to ignore the question...................:sleeping:

Senior is serving up some good football at plainmoor. Is it your  view that Gary has found his level?

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15 minutes ago, Robbored said:

 Care to answer my question Bob?  

As a so say scout you will be able to tell me why the same drab football  served up by Junior is any different to the same drab football served up by Senior?

Or perhaps you’ll simply opt to ignore the question...................:sleeping:

Or maybe has you on ignore.

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38 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

What's the deal with Eisa/ Adelukan? is it injury problems or are they just crap. 

Theyve contributed nothing. Rubbish signings. 

Adelakun looked bright today. Him and Hunt were our main attacking threats. Both had lengthy injuries and it takes time to recover.

Not seen enough of Eisa to judge but reckon once Adelakun is up to speed we have a player with real potential. I think he was brought back too soon initially but I think he may be one of our bright spots over the second half of the season.

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18 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Absolutely and LJ must be quite aware of it. 

He tries to use Pato as a playmaker but he’s not particularly effective but LJ has few other options with Walsh and Smith injured for at least another 6-8 weeks.

I doubt he’ll find a creative player in the upcoming window - quality ones are hard enough to come by in any window. He’ll find another striker but without quality service I can’t see what use he’ll be.

A playmaker would still need sound movement in front of him RR. It's very lethargic and often just stood in a line with a defender stood next to them. So hard to break down with so many defenders in the box.

We just aren't moving into the right spaces at the right time. And when we do it's way too late.

I've not witnessed us so pedestrian for ages.

 

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6 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Senior is serving up some good football at plainmoor. Is it your  view that Gary has found his level?

No doubt Senior is a decent lower league manager. He gets the best out of players with limited ability but higher up the players have more ability so he loses the one strength he has. 

Tbf - Torquay are fortunate to have him.

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10 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

He's in the side for his bravery in the tackle and die for the cause type attitude.

That's very commendable, but his overplay in the final third in a "free role" means that we're wasting promising attacks. Why can't he shoot when bearing down on goal? He's talented, but such a frustrating player to watch.

 

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15 minutes ago, spudski said:

I've not witnessed us so pedestrian for ages.

Put this on another post earlier @spudski After watching that Dave what struck me is that we seriously lack any pace going forward. Rotherham certainly didn't sit back as a lot predicted but must of thought they could get something and until the sending offs looked more than capable of achieving it. We just look so predictable and I lost count of the number of times we turned and went backwards rather than drive to the bye line.It's three points in the bag so can't really ask for much more..........apart from a decent performance that gets the crowd fired up instead of the recent constant groans.

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2 hours ago, Spike said:

Why on earth are we so dedicated to crossing recently? What is LJ trying to accomplish?

This team is not made for the crossing game, our only "big man" spends more time on the floor than he does on his feet and at best he may score one in five headed chances that he actually manages to get on the end of. The rest of our squad are not made for playing the ball in the air and we're predictable to almost every team that plays us right now.
 
Even with just 9 men on the pitch Rotherham almost kept a clean sheet against us and in all fairness were very unlucky not to have kept that goal out. Looking at the stats today, 21 shots and only 7 on target. Whilst we're on the subject of shots, Rotherham managed 18 shots against us! A team in the bottom four teams in the league (bottom three after today), away from home managed to create that much and on many occasions whilst they have 11 men had us pinned back in our own third.
 
We had 13 corners today, I honestly wish I had the statistic of how many cross attempts we had because we certainly had a lot and only managed one goal which came only after they had two fewer players.
 
I genuinely see no love for this team or how they play. When we scored today it felt great, but it didn't feel as great as it should have, it felt more like relief than enjoyment. If I were a player in that team I would be coming away thinking "thank god we got the points but I hate this style of football" because it doesn't compliment us at all. I still don't understand what happened to the LJ we had last season, the man talking to Pep Guardiola about his style of football, the man getting major compliments based on the free-flowing, pass and move football that he'd created. What happened after Bobby, Mags, Flint and Bryan left that has changed his plans so drastically. At least last season we saw glimpses of great football, at times we even saw long periods of it but this current team looks like one who have given up and are just going through the motions.
 
If our plan for the rest of the season is just to aimlessly cross and hope someone gets on the end of it then who is LJ expecting us to bring in?! How is he expecting the fans to want to attend home games if the football on show is actually worse than when we play away from home?
 
I'm just so lost at this point, I've never come away from watching my team win and felt like I'd been kicked in the stomach. I know a lot of the pro-LJ posters will say "Oh you only enjoy watching us lose so you can moan" but that's just showing a total lack of intelligence to understand the situation many of our fans find themselves in. No real fan of this club wants to see us lose, but they also do not want to watch their club play utterly soul-crushing football and scraping 1-0 wins over terrible opposition who have a massive disadvantage either! There is no reason other than LJ that we can't have both, a team that wins and plays good football, LJ himself even proved that last season, so why has he changed his own direction so 

That was not the catalyst. The football you refer to ceased around last Feb. Its easily understandable if you accept the football the team played temporarily was never a long term intent.

 

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7 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

That's very commendable, but his overplay in the final third in a "free role" means that we're wasting promising attacks. Why can't he shoot when bearing down on goal? He's talented, but such a frustrating player to watch.

 

Yeah flatters to deceive. No doubt he has ability but in a goal shy side like ours, in this unforgiving league needs to offer more than two or three bits of skill per game. 

As much of a **** Tomlin was he had so much more to his game. have you ever seen Pats knock someone off the ball to give himself room to et a shot off or put someone in on goal?

Not my type of player, I think he's had a long enough run in the side now but for whatever reason Jono sees him as a mainstay of the side.

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

I posted about this recently. And there are enough stats out there to prove that crossing is the least effective way of scoring. Crosses per goals ratio is huge.

Unless counter attacking we play at a Pedestrian pace. The opposition get organised with nearly every man behind the ball.

It either goes wide and we cross into a packed box that then gets cleared...or we try to play intricate passing into a crowded 18 yard box. Often losing the ball and getting caught on the counter. It seems like we are trying to walk the ball into the goal.

As for Tamara ...it seems like 1 decent game in 10. Stay on your bloody feet man...win something. So much breaks down when he loses the ball or looks to win a free kick. The way he's playing is so ineffective and just slows or breaks down. So frustrating.

We are sound defensively...but wasteful, lethargic and cumbersome when in the final third.

 

This is England, the belief that the way to play is to sling hopeful high balls into the box still clings on by its fingernails.

What comes to mind is Moyes, when his Man Utd side drew a game at home (to Fulham I think), bragging that they had got a record number of crosses in, as though that was an end in itself.

It seems that LJ, despite all the analysis at his disposal, has turned into a bit of a tactical dinosaur.

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2 hours ago, Robbored said:

You don’t agree BobbobSuperBob?

Its exactly the same turgid and drab football his dad served up.......and posters are complaining about it...........just as I used complain about it..........

But we won Robbo

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2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Must be a family trait.

And there it is. The straw that broke the camels back. Why are you such an idiot? We’ve discussed before how you can add intelligent debate to the fore, but you just choose to troll. 

It baffles me that you’re such a stupid troll. It really is a damning indictment on your sad little personality. Have you got nothing better in your life?

I’ve never felt the need to put someone on ignore before, but you’re such a **** - especially recently - that I cannot let it go on any further. 

Please stop being such a dick otherwise a whole lot more people than me will put you on ignore. 

Pillock. Grow up. 

(Now... if someone would please point me in the direction of the ignore button...?)

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8 minutes ago, chinapig said:

This is England, the belief that the way to play is to sling hopeful high balls into the box still clings on by its fingernails.

What comes to mind is Moyes, when his Man Utd side drew a game at home (to Fulham I think), bragging that they had got a record number of crosses in, as though that was an end in itself.

It seems that LJ, despite all the analysis at his disposal, has turned into a bit of a tactical dinosaur.

I'm really at a loss as to why he's gone down this route tbh.

Looking at stats...we actually create opportunities...but we waste those opportunities.

Brentford do the same, but in a different way.

I think we maybe trying to play a way that isn't condusive to the quality of players we currently have.

It may click eventually. Who knows...but right now it's painful to watch.

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1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

And there it is. The straw that broke the camels back. Why are you such an idiot? We’ve discussed before how you can add intelligent debate to the fore, but you just choose to troll. 

It baffles me that you’re such a stupid troll. It really is a damning indictment on your sad little personality. Have you got nothing better in your life?

I’ve never felt the need to put someone on ignore before, but you’re such a **** - especially recently - that I cannot let it go on any further. 

Please stop being such a dick otherwise a whole lot more people than me will put you on ignore. 

Pillock. Grow up. 

Forty - tell me the difference between Juniors drab play and his fathers drab play?  :dunno:

Personally I can’t see any difference which is why I ask if it’s a family trait......

and please - put me on ignore.

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3 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'm really at a loss as to why he's gone down this route tbh.

Looking at stats...we actually create opportunities...but we waste those opportunities.

Brentford do the same, but in a different way.

I think we maybe trying to play a way that isn't condusive to the quality of players we currently have.

It may click eventually. Who knows...but right now it's painful to watch.

LJ did tell us he was going to go more direct but did not explain why so I'm baffled too as it seems out of character.

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7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Forty - tell me the difference between Juniors drab play and his fathers drab play?  :dunno:

Personally I can’t see any difference which is why I ask if it’s a family trait......

and please - put me on ignore.

Do you know if you put someone on ignore, you still see their posts if someone quotes it?

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A few thoughts on today's viewing:

We are a very predictable side. I think we have enough quality about us to avoid a relegation dogfight, since we look fairly assured at the back. However, we lack the creativity or cutting-edge up front that top 10 teams possess, and for that reason I think we will languish in the mid-table. 

Dhiedhou struck a very frustrating figure with me today. His touch is clearly sharpening up, and he proved a handful for the Rotherham CBs, but he also spurned three guilt-edged chances in the second half that really, a championship quality striker should be burying. 

I was impressed with both Da Silva and Adelekun and was disappointed to see the latter of those substituted, though I warmly welcomed Taylor onto the field as it was clear we needed his industry and creativity in the final third to kick start something for us. Within seconds of being on, he played Dhiedhou into acres of space on the left flank with a first time pass. THAT is the creativity and imagination that we need in the team. I don't for one minute think Matty Taylor offers direct solutions to our lack of goals, but what he does do is create space for other players exceptionally well and moves the ball intelligently, whilst taking appropriate risks at the same time. 

Webster and Kalas looked more assured at the back, and the wide-open spaces that were exploited in our 18-yard area by Brentford didn't seem to be there today, which was reassuring - though I didn't feel that Rotherham possessed the same level of threat as Brentford and were largely uninspiring. That being said, I was very surprised by their second half showing and the robust challenges they threw in. I've never considered Rotherham a particularly dirty side, but I have no arguments over either sending off today. Whether the second one was a direct red is irrelevant - the ref warned them as a team about their challenges, and they paid no notice. 

Pack, Brownhill and Paterson isn't doing it for me in midfield. All three are clearly gifted footballers, but I'm not convinced that playing together in a central midfield three is working. Pack was exposed as lacking pace a few times today, and it feels to me as though Brownhill and Paterson try to occupy the same role/spaces, which results in neither of them being their very most effective. 

Nicki was solid in goal, as per usual. Not much more to report on that.

In summary, I can't bemoan a win too much, though I would stress that 1 goal against 9-men for me represents a very unconvincing performance and had the red cards not come, I am not convinced we would have got ourselves over the line to win that game. Our style of play is far too predictable, and we lack imagination going forward. We don't give the ball away too cheaply, though we also don't take any risks, which largely results in a dour and uninspiring brand of football on offer. 

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