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Spike

Our "play-style"

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11 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Did we just score from a cross?

Yeah but more of a playing the averages rather than quality. You have to admit crossing isn't playing to our strengths. 

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9 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Did we just score from a cross?

Yes and weren’t having much luck breaking them fown through the middle either. We did try and mix it up but crosses were inevitable. Don’t mind crosses either but we didn’t vary they type enough for me. 

Thought last season we did not cross enough but do remember some goals from different types of crosses. Just a shame we got rid of Djuric and started crossing more lofted type crosses. 

Idk I don’t mind it. You can score lots of goals from crosses. Liverpool score lots from those waist high with power from Robertson, Mane or Salah. Man city scores many low on the floor ones. These are extreme examples but point for me stands. Crossing is fine but need to try to be a bit more creative in them. For example Dasilva had many chances to cross today but always opted to loft it even though he had many different crossing positions. 

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2 minutes ago, KeepUpLino said:

LJ hasn’t got a clue what’s he’s doing, boring shithouse football that’s sucking every last ounce of Enjoyment out of the match day experience... Not for me thanks!!

Must be a family trait.

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Two full backs overlapping, two wide players (on their wrong feet) and one forward who's mostly defending corners or running down the wing.   What is the point in making a low percentage strategy (crossing) even worse by not having anybody in the box when we do get the ball in?  Why play Patterson instead of a second forward?

 

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We no longer have Reid, Bryan, Mags and Flint and we've been without Smith and Wright. Reid in particular was key to Johnson's style and philosophy. We just can't expect to lose such players and not suffer some impact. We're doing alright though. 

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You don’t agree BobbobSuperBob?

Its exactly the same turgid and drab football his dad served up.......and posters are complaining about it...........just as I used complain about it..........

Edited by Robbored
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Having stockpiled wingers in the Summer (which I dont mind) I just dont understand why he didn't replace Djuric. That is the must signing in January for me.

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1 minute ago, Ian M said:

Having stockpiled wingers in the Summer (which I dont mind) I just dont understand why he didn't replace Djuric. That is the must signing in January for me.

Cue our 27th approach for Matt Smith!

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Obviously you don’t agree BobbobSuperBob - your a scout so please explain the difference between the uninspired and dreary stuff served up by Senior and by Junior serving up exactly the same stuff..............:cool2:

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3 minutes ago, Nibor said:

Two full backs overlapping, two wide players (on their wrong feet) and one forward who's mostly defending corners or running down the wing.   What is the point in making a low percentage strategy (crossing) even worse by not having anybody in the box when we do get the ball in?  Why play Patterson instead of a second forward?

 

Quyite a few runs into the box was Webster from deep, and how many clearances did Diedhiou make?  

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31 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Did we just score from a cross?

Yes we did,  but Webster was totally unmarked, due to Rotherham only having 9 players and then his downward header was almost saved by their goalie.

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12 minutes ago, Ian M said:

Having stockpiled wingers in the Summer (which I dont mind) I just dont understand why he didn't replace Djuric. That is the must signing in January for me.

This. 

Ive seen so many games this season where Djuric wouldve scored a hatfull. 

I dont mind the crossing game if we have targets, so this has to be a must to get a ‘big ‘un’ in. 

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I too was baffled by the number of crosses as I can hardly remember Fam getting his head on anything. But we did work the 2-man advantage which gave Hunt time and space to work an angle and stick it right on Webster’s head. 

No doubt our successes this year have been built on a solid defence. If we can get some better offensive players in we’ll have quite a good team.

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I'll take the 3pts even if it was so painful to watch but my word we seriously need to start to understand what the hell we our trying to achieve in our game plan. On too Stoke we go and hopefully kid knap PC on the bus back home because that's exactly what we need. 

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24 minutes ago, Ian M said:

Having stockpiled wingers in the Summer (which I dont mind) I just dont understand why he didn't replace Djuric. That is the must signing in January for me.

Eisa, Smith, Janneh, Hinds, Lemoneigh Evans, Semeneyo and others for whom the future may never come.  More of the same in January ? Or all the strikers signed or loaned in who never made it and have now left?

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3 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Eisa, Smith, Janneh, Hinds, Lemoneigh Evans, Semeneyo and others for whom the future may never come.  More of the same in January ? Or all the strikers signed or loaned in who never made it and have now left?

It would be mad to sign a striker and never play Eisa - either we made yet another expensive mistake and he just isn't good enough; or we should play him, it's madness spending so much, needing a striker so badly and not playing him.

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I think the major problem is too many support strikers. Weinmann, Taylor, Paterson and Diedhiou are very different players but all of them - Diedhiou included - work best playing off a striker who sticks in the box and acts an attacking focal point. Diedhiou has had a lot of stick this season but the major issue is he is being asked to do something that is not really his game.

Maybe Eisa will do it once he gets up to speed but otherwise we really need a striker that can either play up top on their own or that one of Diedhiou, Weimann or Taylor can partner. We are not going to spend a fortune so I think it is about finding a Wilbraham type signing who is not contributing much where they are but can do a job for us.

Edited by LondonBristolian

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27 minutes ago, CiderHider said:

Quyite a few runs into the box was Webster from deep, and how many clearances did Diedhiou make?  

About twice as many as we would have needed had someone been outside the box nearer the half way line waiting to win the ball.  IMO it does more harm than good having everyone back, it almost guarantees we have to defend a second ball into the box.

Just now, LondonBristolian said:

Maybe Eisa will do it once he gets up to speed but otherwise we really need a striker that can either play up top on their own or that one of Diedhiou, Weimann or Taylor can partner. We are not going to spend a fortune so I think it is about finding a Wilbraham type signing who is not contributing much where they are but can do a job for us.

Is Eisa injured again or has he already been Engvalled?  I can't see how we can fail to give him minutes when we're this inept up front.

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5 minutes ago, Nibor said:

About twice as many as we would have needed had someone been outside the box nearer the half way line waiting to win the ball.  IMO it does more harm than good having everyone back, it almost guarantees we have to defend a second ball into the box.

Is Eisa injured again or has he already been Engvalled?  I can't see how we can fail to give him minutes when we're this inept up front.

My guess is he is fit but not  match fit  and LJ does not want to throw him in when he is less than 100%. No idea if that is true though.

Edited by LondonBristolian

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O’dowda is awful...lightweight and end product is abysmal...this may be unpopular because Martin o’neill And many on here actually rate him but I would get rid.

2 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Have we scored from a corner this season? 

Birmingham 

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1 minute ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Have we scored from a corner this season? 

Birmingham for one

Third of our goals,nigh on are from set pieces / pens

But agree - we never look a great threat at corners 

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44 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Obviously you don’t agree BobbobSuperBob - your a scout so please explain the difference between the uninspired and dreary stuff served up by Senior and by Junior serving up exactly the same stuff..............:cool2:

A lot more wins under GJ.

Big Dele a man built for headers vs Diedhiou who isn’t. 

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1 minute ago, MC RISK77 said:

O’dowda is awful...lightweight and end product is abysmal...this may be unpopular because Martin o’neill And many on here actually rate him but I would get rid.

Birmingham 

Not unpopular here. I think he's shite.

That Irish team he plays in is also terrible. 

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11 minutes ago, Nibor said:

Is Eisa injured again or has he already been Engvalled?  I can't see how we can fail to give him minutes when we're this inept up front.

That was question amongst the guys I sit with. We were all surprised not to see Eisa in the squad so we assumed he must be inured but chatting with RB caller Ian pre match he reckoned that he’s not injured.........:dunno:

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53 minutes ago, Nibor said:

Two full backs overlapping, two wide players (on their wrong feet) and one forward who's mostly defending corners or running down the wing.   What is the point in making a low percentage strategy (crossing) even worse by not having anybody in the box when we do get the ball in?  Why play Patterson instead of a second forward?

 

Why play Paterson at all? 

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2 minutes ago, Selred said:

A lot more wins under GJ.

That’s it?  So if LJ was was winning and serving up shite football we’d all be happy? ........results v entertainment in other words.

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1 hour ago, Spike said:

Why on earth are we so dedicated to crossing recently? What is LJ trying to accomplish?

This team is not made for the crossing game, our only "big man" spends more time on the floor than he does on his feet and at best he may score one in five headed chances that he actually manages to get on the end of. The rest of our squad are not made for playing the ball in the air and we're predictable to almost every team that plays us right now.
 
Even with just 9 men on the pitch Rotherham almost kept a clean sheet against us and in all fairness were very unlucky not to have kept that goal out. Looking at the stats today, 21 shots and only 7 on target. Whilst we're on the subject of shots, Rotherham managed 18 shots against us! A team in the bottom four teams in the league (bottom three after today), away from home managed to create that much and on many occasions whilst they have 11 men had us pinned back in our own third.
 
We had 13 corners today, I honestly wish I had the statistic of how many cross attempts we had because we certainly had a lot and only managed one goal which came only after they had two fewer players.
 
I genuinely see no love for this team or how they play. When we scored today it felt great, but it didn't feel as great as it should have, it felt more like relief than enjoyment. If I were a player in that team I would be coming away thinking "thank god we got the points but I hate this style of football" because it doesn't compliment us at all. I still don't understand what happened to the LJ we had last season, the man talking to Pep Guardiola about his style of football, the man getting major compliments based on the free-flowing, pass and move football that he'd created. What happened after Bobby, Mags, Flint and Bryan left that has changed his plans so drastically. At least last season we saw glimpses of great football, at times we even saw long periods of it but this current team looks like one who have given up and are just going through the motions.
 
If our plan for the rest of the season is just to aimlessly cross and hope someone gets on the end of it then who is LJ expecting us to bring in?! How is he expecting the fans to want to attend home games if the football on show is actually worse than when we play away from home?
 
I'm just so lost at this point, I've never come away from watching my team win and felt like I'd been kicked in the stomach. I know a lot of the pro-LJ posters will say "Oh you only enjoy watching us lose so you can moan" but that's just showing a total lack of intelligence to understand the situation many of our fans find themselves in. No real fan of this club wants to see us lose, but they also do not want to watch their club play utterly soul-crushing football and scraping 1-0 wins over terrible opposition who have a massive disadvantage either! There is no reason other than LJ that we can't have both, a team that wins and plays good football, LJ himself even proved that last season, so why has he changed his own direction so much and in doing so divided the fans further than he already has?

I posted about this recently. And there are enough stats out there to prove that crossing is the least effective way of scoring. Crosses per goals ratio is huge.

Unless counter attacking we play at a Pedestrian pace. The opposition get organised with nearly every man behind the ball.

It either goes wide and we cross into a packed box that then gets cleared...or we try to play intricate passing into a crowded 18 yard box. Often losing the ball and getting caught on the counter. It seems like we are trying to walk the ball into the goal.

As for Tamara ...it seems like 1 decent game in 10. Stay on your bloody feet man...win something. So much breaks down when he loses the ball or looks to win a free kick. The way he's playing is so ineffective and just slows or breaks down. So frustrating.

We are sound defensively...but wasteful, lethargic and cumbersome when in the final third.

 

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1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

Did we just score from a cross?

Yes with did, but it was against 9 men after countless crosses, which had achieved nothing. As a percentage, the goals we score balanced against the number of crosses going into the box must be very small.   I’ve got to agree with @Spike ‘s comments. City’s play is so unbelievably predictable which makes the job of the opposition’s team manager’s pre-match team talk easy. All he’s got to say is “ they will play it wide then bang in a hopeful cross. Just stay in position in the box and it will be easy to head the ball away.”

Rotherham is a team in the relegation zone, with a minuscule budget, yet until the sendings off they played the best football on the ground and (IMO) looked like the likely winners 

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1 minute ago, spudski said:

We are sound defensively...but wasteful, lethargic and cumbersome when in the final third.

Absolutely and LJ must be quite aware of it. 

He tries to use Pato as a playmaker but he’s not particularly effective but LJ has few other options with Walsh and Smith injured for at least another 6-8 weeks.

I doubt he’ll find a creative player in the upcoming window - quality ones are hard enough to come by in any window. He’ll find another striker but without quality service I can’t see what use he’ll be.

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29 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

But agree - we never look a great threat at corners 

 Care to answer my question Bob?  

As a so say scout you will be able to tell me why the same drab football  served up by Junior is any different to the same drab football served up by Senior?

Or perhaps you’ll simply opt to ignore the question...................:sleeping:

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5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

 Care to answer my question Bob?  

As a so say scout you will be able to tell me why the same drab football  served up by Junior is any different to the same drab football served up by Senior?

Or perhaps you’ll simply opt to ignore the question...................:sleeping:

Senior is serving up some good football at plainmoor. Is it your  view that Gary has found his level?

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15 minutes ago, Robbored said:

 Care to answer my question Bob?  

As a so say scout you will be able to tell me why the same drab football  served up by Junior is any different to the same drab football served up by Senior?

Or perhaps you’ll simply opt to ignore the question...................:sleeping:

Or maybe has you on ignore.

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38 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

What's the deal with Eisa/ Adelukan? is it injury problems or are they just crap. 

Theyve contributed nothing. Rubbish signings. 

Adelakun looked bright today. Him and Hunt were our main attacking threats. Both had lengthy injuries and it takes time to recover.

Not seen enough of Eisa to judge but reckon once Adelakun is up to speed we have a player with real potential. I think he was brought back too soon initially but I think he may be one of our bright spots over the second half of the season.

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18 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Absolutely and LJ must be quite aware of it. 

He tries to use Pato as a playmaker but he’s not particularly effective but LJ has few other options with Walsh and Smith injured for at least another 6-8 weeks.

I doubt he’ll find a creative player in the upcoming window - quality ones are hard enough to come by in any window. He’ll find another striker but without quality service I can’t see what use he’ll be.

A playmaker would still need sound movement in front of him RR. It's very lethargic and often just stood in a line with a defender stood next to them. So hard to break down with so many defenders in the box.

We just aren't moving into the right spaces at the right time. And when we do it's way too late.

I've not witnessed us so pedestrian for ages.

 

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6 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Senior is serving up some good football at plainmoor. Is it your  view that Gary has found his level?

No doubt Senior is a decent lower league manager. He gets the best out of players with limited ability but higher up the players have more ability so he loses the one strength he has. 

Tbf - Torquay are fortunate to have him.

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2 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

Or maybe has you on ignore.

Hopefully, but I doubt it - I did suggest that to him awhile back but he chose not to for some mysterious reason............:dunno:

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10 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

He's in the side for his bravery in the tackle and die for the cause type attitude.

That's very commendable, but his overplay in the final third in a "free role" means that we're wasting promising attacks. Why can't he shoot when bearing down on goal? He's talented, but such a frustrating player to watch.

 

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12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

No doubt Senior is a decent lower league manager. He gets the best out of players with limited ability but higher up the players have more ability so he loses the one strength he has. 

Tbf - Torquay are fortunate to have him.

and Palm trees

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15 minutes ago, spudski said:

I've not witnessed us so pedestrian for ages.

Put this on another post earlier @spudski After watching that Dave what struck me is that we seriously lack any pace going forward. Rotherham certainly didn't sit back as a lot predicted but must of thought they could get something and until the sending offs looked more than capable of achieving it. We just look so predictable and I lost count of the number of times we turned and went backwards rather than drive to the bye line.It's three points in the bag so can't really ask for much more..........apart from a decent performance that gets the crowd fired up instead of the recent constant groans.

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2 hours ago, Spike said:

Why on earth are we so dedicated to crossing recently? What is LJ trying to accomplish?

This team is not made for the crossing game, our only "big man" spends more time on the floor than he does on his feet and at best he may score one in five headed chances that he actually manages to get on the end of. The rest of our squad are not made for playing the ball in the air and we're predictable to almost every team that plays us right now.
 
Even with just 9 men on the pitch Rotherham almost kept a clean sheet against us and in all fairness were very unlucky not to have kept that goal out. Looking at the stats today, 21 shots and only 7 on target. Whilst we're on the subject of shots, Rotherham managed 18 shots against us! A team in the bottom four teams in the league (bottom three after today), away from home managed to create that much and on many occasions whilst they have 11 men had us pinned back in our own third.
 
We had 13 corners today, I honestly wish I had the statistic of how many cross attempts we had because we certainly had a lot and only managed one goal which came only after they had two fewer players.
 
I genuinely see no love for this team or how they play. When we scored today it felt great, but it didn't feel as great as it should have, it felt more like relief than enjoyment. If I were a player in that team I would be coming away thinking "thank god we got the points but I hate this style of football" because it doesn't compliment us at all. I still don't understand what happened to the LJ we had last season, the man talking to Pep Guardiola about his style of football, the man getting major compliments based on the free-flowing, pass and move football that he'd created. What happened after Bobby, Mags, Flint and Bryan left that has changed his plans so drastically. At least last season we saw glimpses of great football, at times we even saw long periods of it but this current team looks like one who have given up and are just going through the motions.
 
If our plan for the rest of the season is just to aimlessly cross and hope someone gets on the end of it then who is LJ expecting us to bring in?! How is he expecting the fans to want to attend home games if the football on show is actually worse than when we play away from home?
 
I'm just so lost at this point, I've never come away from watching my team win and felt like I'd been kicked in the stomach. I know a lot of the pro-LJ posters will say "Oh you only enjoy watching us lose so you can moan" but that's just showing a total lack of intelligence to understand the situation many of our fans find themselves in. No real fan of this club wants to see us lose, but they also do not want to watch their club play utterly soul-crushing football and scraping 1-0 wins over terrible opposition who have a massive disadvantage either! There is no reason other than LJ that we can't have both, a team that wins and plays good football, LJ himself even proved that last season, so why has he changed his own direction so 

That was not the catalyst. The football you refer to ceased around last Feb. Its easily understandable if you accept the football the team played temporarily was never a long term intent.

 

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7 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

That's very commendable, but his overplay in the final third in a "free role" means that we're wasting promising attacks. Why can't he shoot when bearing down on goal? He's talented, but such a frustrating player to watch.

 

Yeah flatters to deceive. No doubt he has ability but in a goal shy side like ours, in this unforgiving league needs to offer more than two or three bits of skill per game. 

As much of a **** Tomlin was he had so much more to his game. have you ever seen Pats knock someone off the ball to give himself room to et a shot off or put someone in on goal?

Not my type of player, I think he's had a long enough run in the side now but for whatever reason Jono sees him as a mainstay of the side.

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

I posted about this recently. And there are enough stats out there to prove that crossing is the least effective way of scoring. Crosses per goals ratio is huge.

Unless counter attacking we play at a Pedestrian pace. The opposition get organised with nearly every man behind the ball.

It either goes wide and we cross into a packed box that then gets cleared...or we try to play intricate passing into a crowded 18 yard box. Often losing the ball and getting caught on the counter. It seems like we are trying to walk the ball into the goal.

As for Tamara ...it seems like 1 decent game in 10. Stay on your bloody feet man...win something. So much breaks down when he loses the ball or looks to win a free kick. The way he's playing is so ineffective and just slows or breaks down. So frustrating.

We are sound defensively...but wasteful, lethargic and cumbersome when in the final third.

 

This is England, the belief that the way to play is to sling hopeful high balls into the box still clings on by its fingernails.

What comes to mind is Moyes, when his Man Utd side drew a game at home (to Fulham I think), bragging that they had got a record number of crosses in, as though that was an end in itself.

It seems that LJ, despite all the analysis at his disposal, has turned into a bit of a tactical dinosaur.

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