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Redland

2018 Statistics - Not a good year.

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As we move into 2019 I thought it would be interesting to collate our results for 2018. Including league and cup matches these are as follows:-

Played 50. Won 12. Drawn 16. Lost 22. Win ratio 22.4%

As we move into the fourth year of LJ's tenure he recently remarked he had "seen off" other managers in the league who had been sacked. Not LJ bashing but surely this is due to the continued benevolence of our chairman rather than results on the pitch?

 

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3 minutes ago, Redland said:

As we move into 2019 I thought it would be interesting to collate our results for 2018. Including league and cup matches these are as follows:-

Played 50. Won 12. Drawn 16. Lost 22. Win ratio 22.4%

As we move into the fourth year of LJ's tenure he recently remarked he had "seen off" other managers in the league who had been sacked. Not LJ bashing but surely this is due to the continued benevolence of our chairman rather than results on the pitch?

 

Shocking, and yet you're a ++++ if you dare criticise

Edited by AppyDAZE
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2 minutes ago, Zookeeper WSM said:

We're 11th in the league having sold our best 3 players. Where were your expectations pre-season?

 

only 3 games won WITH those players in 2018

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1 minute ago, Zookeeper WSM said:

What were your expectations pre-season?

Lower than where we are, but still convinced we'll end up lower than where we are.

About 14th come May.

Anyway, how do you explain only 3 wins (2018) with these crucial players IN the team?

 

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This 2018 stat which some like to come back to is a classic case of:

“stats can lie”

And I like stats. 

22% win ratio in 2018 and yet....11th and still in the championship.......

Win ratio this season and the one that actually matters - 36%.

Edited by Alessandro
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5 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

This 2018 stat which some like to come back to is a classic case of:

“stats can lie”

And I like stats. 

22% win ratio in 2018 and yet....11th and still in the championship.......

Win ratio this season and the one that actually matters - 36%.

Fair comment. We are mid table this season which helps cancel out  the results from Jan to May last season. I was simply reviewing the year as it ends but I agree different time periods will give different results. 

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3 minutes ago, Redland said:

Fair comment. We are mid table this season which helps cancel out  the results from Jan to May last season. I was simply reviewing the year as it ends but I agree different time periods will give different results. 

With the new year coming are you giving him a clean slate now? 

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Very harsh to include 2 games v Man City, a third team v Watford and a reserve team v Plymouth.

Its 26% win percentage in the league which has improved as the year has progressed and this season our W column has the biggest number.

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6 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Very harsh to include 2 games v Man City, a third team v Watford and a reserve team v Plymouth.

Its 26% win percentage in the league which has improved as the year has progressed and this season our W column has the biggest number.

I didn't pick and choose. I included all our competitive matches.

It's up to LJ which team he picks and I hardly think Plymouth are world beaters. They beat us at home but are currently propping up league one. 

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20 minutes ago, Red Rocks said:

As far as I can see we are currently the highest placed team in the league which, as yet, hasn’t appeared in the Premier League. Must count for something.

Probably means that we're not quite good enough like the rest that haven't made it. There are also some in league one that have "made it".

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1 hour ago, Zookeeper WSM said:

We're 11th in the league having sold our best 3 players. Where were your expectations pre-season?

And replaced them with Kalas and Webster, two England under 21 players and a player who has 120 Prem games under their belt. The combined salary of those players many times more than the departing ones. It is a weak excuse talking about selling players. It is what we do. But look at the total investment on their replacements and it was hardly a cheap option. Transfer fees are only part of the story. 

The owner has repeatedly said he expects top 6. The sentiment from most fans was to avoid relegation and sit around mid table, exactly where we are. The real question, is related to the future. It is the question about the ability of LJ to spend his notable funds well, to develop academy players as regular first team(he has done 1) to sell on players he has purchased  to fund the future, and to develop an approach to playing that does not change season to season or worse sometimes game to game. Can LJ create a team that is greater than the sum of its parts, because that is the task at BCFC, and always has been. Why is LJ such a divisive figure, someone that  creates such comment , when the first need at a football club is unity. So if people are dissatisfied, (of course many are not it is suggested, who knows the real overall feeling ? ) and it is not because people expect promotion to the top league, why is LJ not revered and applauded , far from it. It is a significant question SL needs to answer to himself . There is something not right and as SL does actually want Prem football,( he has seen so many others teams of our "level" happily go up and down to the Prem) he must be asking himself why not us. He also must know by now that LJ is not going to do it either . SL needs to now raise the level. He has a solid platform. 

There is the basis of a good team at BCFC, but it needs someone to take them to a new level, many, myself included do not see LJ being the person to do that. 

 

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Difficult to say as you are clearly one of those who is dissatisfied with where we are and how we've developed over the past few seasons. All I'd say is to take a step back and look at how sacking Johnson would be perceived by the rest of the football world. No one other than our own fans would say we're doing any thing other than performing at the level we should be or above it given our resources and the fact that as you say, selling our best players 'is what we do'.

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1 hour ago, Red Rocks said:

As far as I can see we are currently the highest placed team in the league which, as yet, hasn’t appeared in the Premier League. Must count for something.

Not everything doom and gloom then. Could be an exciting end to the season. As far as I can see our only challenge will come from Preston.

So fingers crossed we can stay above them and rightly claim the promotion spot.

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1 hour ago, Big C said:

Pointless statistic. Seasons run from August to May not January to December 

I think it’s a reasonable statistic to use, you can’t claim the ‘losing your best players’ as an excuse.

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44 minutes ago, RumRed said:

I think it’s a reasonable statistic to use, you can’t claim the ‘losing your best players’ as an excuse.

Excuse for what?  

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2 minutes ago, Big C said:

Calendar year? Pointless argument!!

You’ve missed my point about those saying we’re poor due to losing three top players.  Can’t really help you further than that.

Edited by RumRed

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How does it go?  

Lies, damn lies and statistics.....

Surely it’s where City are now is all that matters?

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47 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Not at all, we've paid for tickets all year. 

I wonder how much each win has cost in 2018

We’re currently 11th in the league, on 7 game unbeaten run and people are talking about games from a year ago. Pointless!

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10 minutes ago, Big C said:

We’re currently 11th in the league, on 7 game unbeaten run and people are talking about games from a year ago. Pointless!

 

We’ve won 4 of 13 home games this season (14 if you count Plymouth)

And scored 14 goals (4 of which came in one game)

Added to which , the football and attacking intent has been , in the most , dire 

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5 hours ago, Red Rocks said:

As far as I can see we are currently the highest placed team in the league which, as yet, hasn’t appeared in the Premier League. Must count for something.

Most successful unsuccessful team in the Championship... has a ring to it. 

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28 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Win ratio 22.4%????????

How the **** is this bloke still in situ? We've spent more than ever and Cotts was sacked for 45.69%

 

The FACTS

Steve Cotterill 2013 2016 1 116.00 53 35 28 116

45.69

 

Johnson out! 🤬

And Cotts win percentage in the championship was?

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7 hours ago, Zookeeper WSM said:

We're 11th in the league having sold our best 3 players. Where were your expectations pre-season?

Norwich sold their best players pre-season, including Maddison....they are in the top 2......

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7 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

Lower than where we are, but still convinced we'll end up lower than where we are.

About 14th come May.

Anyway, how do you explain only 3 wins (2018) with these crucial players IN the team?

 

I think your looking at it with narrow vision. Of course it doesn't look good when it's read like that without any context such as cup run, injuries, those players wanting to leave etc.

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27 minutes ago, hodge said:

And Cotts win percentage in the championship was?

Did he spend 5 Percent of the riches Johnson has been allowed to waste?

NO!

Johnson out

 

Edited by Ska Junkie

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Our points tally for the last five games is quite impressive when compared to the other teams in this league......and we are one of just 3 teams unbeaten over those five.

 

Hull - 13 - Unbeaten

Leeds - 12 - Lost 1 

WBA - 11 - Unbeaten 

Sheff U - 10 - Lost 1 

QPR - 10 - Lost 1 

CITY - 9 - Unbeaten 

Norwich - 8 - Lost 1 

Derby - 8 - Lost 1 

Birmingham - 8 - Lost 1 

Stoke - 8 - Lost 1 

Sheff W - 8 - Lost 1

all others have gained less than 8 points.

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39 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

Our points tally for the last five games is quite impressive when compared to the other teams in this league......and we are one of just 3 teams unbeaten over those five.

 

Hull - 13 - Unbeaten

Leeds - 12 - Lost 1 

WBA - 11 - Unbeaten 

Sheff U - 10 - Lost 1 

QPR - 10 - Lost 1 

CITY - 9 - Unbeaten 

Norwich - 8 - Lost 1 

Derby - 8 - Lost 1 

Birmingham - 8 - Lost 1 

Stoke - 8 - Lost 1 

Sheff W - 8 - Lost 1

all others have gained less than 8 points.

And before that we had 4 defeats on the trot.

Let's be honest, the home form this season is really poor. 1 goal per game on average and some really dire performances, with a scattering of good ones here and there. The football is generally slow, dull and predictable, we play to feet rather than into space,  plus there is little intent, movement or passion. Even the "singing section" of the ground has gone quiet recently.

Most supporters go to home games and the entertainment value at AG has been low this season, while frustration has been high, in large part because so many of us can see what's wrong. Yesterday's game was the archetypal home game this season. Team below us in the league, with a poor away record, but we play 1 up front and never really look like scoring, whereas the opposition look fast and dangerous on the break, with Maenpaa the busier goalkeeper.

We are flattered by our position in the league and although we are just 3 points off 7th position, we are not going to achieve SL's stated aim of making the playoffs this season without some dramatic changes. Anybody who thinks otherwise needs a swift reality check.

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5 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

Did he spend 5 Percent of the riches Johnson has been allowed to waste?

NO!

Johnson out

 

Not really the point though if you're using win percentage between the 2. Cotts is propped up nicely because of league 1.

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14 hours ago, Redland said:

As we move into 2019 I thought it would be interesting to collate our results for 2018. Including league and cup matches these are as follows:-

Played 50. Won 12. Drawn 16. Lost 22. Win ratio 22.4%

As we move into the fourth year of LJ's tenure he recently remarked he had "seen off" other managers in the league who had been sacked. Not LJ bashing but surely this is due to the continued benevolence of our chairman rather than results on the pitch?

 

I don’t expect you to be able to give the standard deviation or anything technical but your argument loses a lot of credibility when you suggest 12/50 is 22.4%. It doesn’t make much difference to the figure but you just look desperate to post yet another negative post making a point that has been made 100 times.

Out of interest, what was Cotterill’s Championship win ratio? If you want to post the numbers, we’ll do the maths - it’ll save you randomly deducting 1.6% which I assume you did to make it look “cleverer”.

Either way I don’t care for the argument, the original post looks slap-dash and even less convincing than someone saying “I think the football is worse” without anything to back it up.

What I do find interesting about the debate around our manager; those that think he should be sacked will put across points and they are challenged by those that disagree. Some of the time the people that challenge are decryed as happy clappers, (not always), most of the time a different variation of the same argument is repeated over and over again.

When someone posts something positive, there is never the same challenge - it is literally ‘challenged’ by lots of posts about the same argument over and over again, regardless of context.

One thing that disappoints me on phone-ins whether it’s radio Bristol or 606, presenters will never ask or challenge a positive caller. Every call will end with the presenter saying “thanks for that” with very little input elsewhere.

A wolves fan was on 606 yesterday to talk about how well they were doing, they could have been asked about what has changed over the last couple of years, challenged about owners pouring money into the club, dodgy agents - playing devils advocate but giving the caller a chance to counter some of the criticisms. It didn’t happen, the same thing that happened with the positive caller who talked about context to GT recently - these are the people that would openly answer questions like; “how long can a transitional period be?”, “what is the red line while we’re in a transitional period?” And “how many players that LJ has signed have to be playing first team football in the next 1, 2, 5 years for it to be deemed a successful transition?”

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24 minutes ago, solihull cider red said:

I don’t expect you to be able to give the standard deviation or anything technical but your argument loses a lot of credibility when you suggest 12/50 is 22.4%. It doesn’t make much difference to the figure but you just look desperate to post yet another negative post making a point that has been made 100 times.

 

 Apologies. It was a typo so no hidden agenda and as you say it doesn't make much difference.

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This thread proves a point... You can't conflate the form from two different seasons. 

What happened in January 2018 had little relevance to the form in December. 

You have to focus on a season on it's own merits and this one has been average

Average in one of the best leagues in the world isn't necessarily a terrible thing.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, mozo said:

This thread proves a point... You can't conflate the form from two different seasons. 

What happened in January 2018 had little relevance to the form in December. 

You have to focus on a season on it's own merits and this one has been average

Average in one of the best leagues in the world isn't necessarily a terrible thing.

 

 

Indeed it’s not....and that’s why I’m not “Johnson Out”.  I’m bloody critical of him, but I would be pretty much anyone in charge...I think he has things he can improve.  Even Preston recently, where I was pretty cheesed off, I put a lot of emphasis on the players being at fault.

Part of the problem is what is the objective this season?  Is it really as black and white as SL says, e.g. top 6....or are there underlying mitigants like selling Reid, Flint, Bryan.  Or is simply, top 6 the “stretch target”, top half “meeting expectations”, bottom half “you’re getting sacked’.

We’ve no idea really, just soundbites.  I’m not convinced there are well constructed objectives nor review of performance against them.

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4 hours ago, hodge said:

Not really the point though if you're using win percentage between the 2. Cotts is propped up nicely because of league 1.

I can't and won't disagree Hodge but 22.4% is really poor. 

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Indeed it’s not....and that’s why I’m not “Johnson Out”.  I’m bloody critical of him, but I would be pretty much anyone in charge...I think he has things he can improve.  Even Preston recently, where I was pretty cheesed off, I put a lot of emphasis on the players being at fault.

Part of the problem is what is the objective this season?  Is it really as black and white as SL says, e.g. top 6....or are there underlying mitigants like selling Reid, Flint, Bryan.  Or is simply, top 6 the “stretch target”, top half “meeting expectations”, bottom half “you’re getting sacked’.

We’ve no idea really, just soundbites.  I’m not convinced there are well constructed objectives nor review of performance against them.

After selling those three players, there was always going to be a transition, somewhat frustratingly. Next season, HAS to see progress on this though, surely?

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19 hours ago, Red Rocks said:

As far as I can see we are currently the highest placed team in the league which, as yet, hasn’t appeared in the Premier League. Must count for something.

Yes it does, it means we have never played in the PL.

An utterly irrelevant statistic.

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1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

Cotts didn’t spend £30m on 47 players 

Is that all we've spent? And people claim Johnson has wasted millions!? Utter peanuts when compared to the Prem or even bigger teams in this division.

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