Red-Robbo Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, RedM said: Yesterday it suddenly dawned on me what we were doing this season, I have the answer, seriously. SL a couple of years ago I think stated we wanted to emulate Reading, we even brought in Coppell and a couple of their ex players. Well we know how that went. Then there were mumblings about us ‘doing a Bournemouth’, small unfancued team with young up and coming Manager. Work in progress. Now I honestly feel this seasons wannabe team is...Fulham. Fulham were 11th this time last season, ( I was told this, haven’t checked), they made one fantastic loan in January and got themselves promoted from almost nowhere. They bought in Mitrovic and he almost singlehandedly got them up there. All LJ has to do is find our Mitrovic. I guess finding a similar player is the easy bit. Persuading him to come here on the wages we offer is the difficult thing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 22 minutes ago, harrys said: Don’t get the dislike and obsession for Tomlin what’s more he left us 18 months. Blimey, you’re on my case this morning It was a joke....Cowshed brought Tuckman’s “stages of group development” into the discussion....I’ll assume you’re aware of Forming, Storming, Norming, Performing. I’ll leave the puns to @Major Isewater and the innuendo to @Rudolf Hucker in future. I’ve been told off!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 37 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: I guess finding a similar player is the easy bit. Persuading him to come here on the wages we offer is the difficult thing!! I never said it was easy, that’s why the person tasked to this is paid his wage. I just am understanding the theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 40 minutes ago, Olé said: MA will find our Lois Diony. Thank you @Olé, I had just about managed to erase him from my memory too. What a player he wasn’t! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 40 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Blimey, you’re on my case this morning It was a joke....Cowshed brought Tuckman’s “stages of group development” into the discussion....I’ll assume you’re aware of Forming, Storming, Norming, Performing. I’ll leave the puns to @Major Isewater and the innuendo to @Rudolf Hucker in future. I’ve been told off!! I’m hardly on your case, i’ve responded to two things you’ve said, isn’t that the idea of a forum? Obviously I touch a nerve with you so probably best to leave it at that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 hour ago, RedM said: Yesterday it suddenly dawned on me what we were doing this season, I have the answer, seriously. SL a couple of years ago I think stated we wanted to emulate Reading, we even brought in Coppell and a couple of their ex players. Well we know how that went. Then there were mumblings about us ‘doing a Bournemouth’, small unfancued team with young up and coming Manager. Work in progress. Now I honestly feel this seasons wannabe team is...Fulham. Fulham were 11th this time last season, ( I was told this, haven’t checked), they made one fantastic loan in January and got themselves promoted from almost nowhere. They bought in Mitrovic and he almost singlehandedly got them up there. All LJ has to do is find our Mitrovic. To be fair they had a little more about them than Mitrovic. Their possession football was a joy, shame they went up though as I enjoyed our annual three points at Craven Cottage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, harrys said: I’m hardly on your case, i’ve responded to two things you’ve said, isn’t that the idea of a forum? Obviously I touch a nerve with you so probably best to leave it at that Ah, fair enough. I’m probably being a snowflake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 24 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Ah, fair enough. I’m probably being a snowflake. Tis the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 37 minutes ago, harrys said: To be fair they had a little more about them than Mitrovic. Their possession football was a joy, shame they went up though as I enjoyed our annual three points at Craven Cottage That's an understatement. They were already a good side, with a focus and style of play, only really needed the striker to finish off the puzzle. We are some way off of that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 Not trying to diss Diedhiou, but we are playing a bit more direct, but the ball still doesn’t stick (often enough). We either need a true back to goal striker in the mould of a Madine (or see Smith’s performance yesterday) or the like so that the ball does stick, or we need a re-think. Question: would be really be any worse off having a smaller, but sharper striker up top, and rely on turning them or picking up the pieces of balls that don’t stick? I like Diedhiou, but he ain’t a target man....French football as @Esmond Million's Bung has said, doesn’t prepare a striker for this type of role and intensity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Olé said: Think you meant Central Midfielder, but I totally agree. This season we're seeing the limitations of Pack, he was built up to be something really special last season (and rightly so) but having Bobby Reid floating about doesn't half help you pick out passes. Even an on form Weimann creates some space, but there is none of it to work with now and he slows things down and is struggling to dictate the pace of games in the way he should now as the senior player in the team. I honestly liked far more what I saw from Walsh the little he played (i.e. quick thinking, give and goes, trying to pick the pace up more, albeit at the expense of being less of a solid base to the midfield) and so I would base a lot of my transfer view based on when he (and Korey as a counterbalance option) will really be fit and ready to go (as you've said, these ETA's seem to always go backwards). I'd also be looking to give Morrell more game time who should also add energy. On the forward, that's the obvious one and pretty obvious LJ will go for one even on loan, but it does make it even more bizarre that we signed Eisa. I think he has bags of potential from the limited action I've seen for him, but he is and was always going to be a square peg in a round hole when clearly what we need is a target man. Eisa is a poacher, and you would far sooner interchange him with Famara than play them together. Perhaps we panicked with Fam's 6 game ban. I don't know what it was but while I like the player, I think Eisa's signing and involvement is indicative of a transfer process that is far less intelligent or thought through than the lip service we get from the club, I would go so far as to say we are enamoured with hoarding promising up and coming players we might increase the valuation of somewhere down the line, without really having a clear strategy for present need. And that's the best case, worst case Eisa was knee jerk. Its a interesting point. How much did Pack cost? How much did other squad members cost? Shouldn't far far more be expected from the signings playing further up the pitch? Movement can be purchased and trained in. Marlon Pack is a solid base. He has a solid base behind him. The five/six including the Keeper viewed collectively are a positive. As a group they have a shared identity - Key qualities such as attitude and leadership clearly exist within this element of the team. The five in front need defining work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Davefevs said: Blimey, you’re on my case this morning It was a joke....Cowshed brought Tuckman’s “stages of group development” into the discussion....I’ll assume you’re aware of Forming, Storming, Norming, Performing. I’ll leave the puns to @Major Isewater and the innuendo to @Rudolf Hucker in future. I’ve been told off!! In-your-end-o? What d'ya mean, Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 5 hours ago, class not gas said: If Joe Bryan was valued at 10 million, I think we would be looking at more than 7 mill for Kelly. We didn’t get anywhere near £10m for Bryan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
class not gas Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 27 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: We didn’t get anywhere near £10m for Bryan.... What we got and what we valued him are two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 29 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: We didn’t get anywhere near £10m for Bryan.... £6.4m from Fulham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, class not gas said: What we got and what we valued him are two different things. So why did we settle for £4m less than we valued him then? Is that good financial management? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said: So why did we settle for £4m less than we valued him then? Is that good financial management? Because he wanted to leave. It would’ve been less had he not stayed 15 minutes longer at Villa. Once a Prem Club offer a player like Reid on say £5k here, £35k to go to Cardiff....it’s a bit difficult to retain him here on a new deal worth £12k, and their value is compromised. We did well to get Reid sold for £9m (+£1m add on). Bryan and Flint, I thought we got about the right amounts. I can of course be massively wrong but I don’t think Kelly will leave for the “nothing less than £10-15m” banded around. He might have several add-ons, but as soon as clubs start offering him £20k, 30k, 40k per week, the fee becomes secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
class not gas Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: So why did we settle for £4m less than we valued him then? Is that good financial management? He wanted to leave and with his contract situation we had to take the offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, class not gas said: He wanted to leave and with his contract situation we had to take the offer. After the Andy Cole transfer debacle I thought we’d be more stubborn and resolute with regards to our jewels...although I accept that players have more power these days....cheers for the reply.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
class not gas Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said: After the Andy Cole transfer debacle I thought we’d be more stubborn and resolute with regards to our jewels...although I accept that players have more power these days....cheers for the reply.... That's the problem BS4 players have too much power these days and clubs like ours are at there mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said: After the Andy Cole transfer debacle I thought we’d be more stubborn and resolute with regards to our jewels...although I accept that players have more power these days....cheers for the reply.... Joe had 12 months left on his deal, if we held out for more and the deal didn't happen in the summer we're lucky to get a few million for him in January or he leaves for nothing in the summer, so really we had to sell in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 Plenty of players available for a price . I wouldn’t give or trust LJ with anymore money incase he falls at the last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 7 hours ago, GasDestroyer said: I would not sign any players, but sign a Chief Scout who knows the Championship inside/out, I think this is amongst the best ideas I've seen. Spend decent money on recruiting a good solid, dependable back room scouting staff. I honestly don't trust the current set up to deliver what is needed. I don't think anyone knows how the set up works, but there is a disconnect somewhere which needs sorting. 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: I can of course be massively wrong but I don’t think Kelly will leave for the “nothing less than £10-15m” banded around. I am pessimistic on this one. I can't see us getting much more than 5-7m , as you say possibly many add-ons , but upfront? any club would be paying mostly for potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 I'm also concerned whether any money made available in Jan will be spent wisely. I stand to be corrected if either were injured, but yesterday two of our summer signings in Eisa and Watkins weren't selected for the match-day squad. These players cost us a couple of million combined - not much compared to some money being chucked around in our league, but I'd argue quite a lot for a club of our stature, especially if they are rarely used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 56 minutes ago, Offside said: I'm also concerned whether any money made available in Jan will be spent wisely. I stand to be corrected if either were injured, but yesterday two of our summer signings in Eisa and Watkins weren't selected for the match-day squad. These players cost us a couple of million combined - not much compared to some money being chucked around in our league, but I'd argue quite a lot for a club of our stature, especially if they are rarely used. I think Watkins is either still injured , or not match ready after the injury. Pretty sure he would have been involved lately otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Constant Rabbit Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 Excuse my ignorance - but can we recall any players we have out on loan? If we can, I'd rather give them a go say for 30 mins in a game and have them around the squad. Surely we should decide what to do about some of these expensive players before getting even more? Like I say, apologies if we can't recall any but if we have blokes at Flyde and Wrexham, it's probably time to play them or get rid. There are millions of quids worth of signings running around at other clubs.I've forgotten half their names @Davefevs Have you got a spreadsheet of players out on loan and their cost please? (Thanks Dave) I think we will be horrified at the £££ spent on fees and wages etc - half of them aren't even starters at their loan clubs!! Play them (we ain't going up ) and see what we have. Bring back Vyner and Moore for a start - they either play for us next year or we sell them on. It's what, 3 yrs on loan for Moore now? Ridiculous. Clear the decks of the 'punts' and 'ones for the future' before spending any more money - if good enough, then keep and play them just like Kelly. If no good - sell/release. Too much deadwood - we need to trim before buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 31, 2018 Report Share Posted December 31, 2018 @SX227 hopefully this is up to date: Holden has returned from Barrow but no word on OS....I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Constant Rabbit Posted December 31, 2018 Report Share Posted December 31, 2018 so 13 out on loan? Bonkers £2,000,000+ in fees plus wages accomodation insurance etc etc After a year (minimum for most of these guys) the management should know who has a shot of being a genuine champ level player and who won't. I think I would be pretty comfortable saying that 2 possibly 3 could. Cut the other 10 - use the money saved at seasons end to add to the budget and buy a top class attacking midfielder. I wouldn't let LJ spend 1p in Jan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted December 31, 2018 Report Share Posted December 31, 2018 Hypothetically- and if I'm honest due to wages et al, but based on varying suggestions. I think was it @BobBobSuperBob suggested him- Hogan on loan and my personal pick Johansen on loan as he's in and out at Fulham yet was superb the last 2 seasons there at this level- that would be IMO a great window. That's me just thinking 'Well you never know' off the back of 7 unbeaten. Probably not at all feasible but personally for me, if we were to roll the dice and go for top 6 this season- that pair of theoretical (ideal)? signings- we could do a lot worse. Overall though? Unless there are any big outgoings then save the cash for the summer- unless we can get for example an excellent 18 month loan which would not only help for this season but for next as well in the bedding in process. Or a player for the right price on a permanent- say 3 and a half year deal- who can do the same. Who will definitively improve us or fill a gap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted December 31, 2018 Report Share Posted December 31, 2018 12 hours ago, GasDestroyer said: I would not sign any players, but sign a Chief Scout who knows the Championship inside/out, give him 6-12 months to "bed in" and then go again. The current scatter gun approach just ain't working. I would also allow the Chief Scout to have a say in the style of football to be played working with LJ or whoever comes in, rather than more scatter gun! I think the whole Scouting network needs upgrading tbh. Not replacing as such, that can be debated but definitely quality and quantity needs to be added to it I feel. That second bit seems a pretty good plan for sure- having a say in the style of play working with LJ or any hypothetical replacement- the club needs a joined up philosophy at all levels- not just youth but first team and recruitment too. @RedM I've tracked it a bit in tracing our decline last season- painful work! Anyway Fulham had already started to kick into gear by the time Mitrovic helped. Of course he took them up a notch or several I'm sure but 19 pts from 7 games? Fantastic foundation for him to go into and help finish. They were thumping a few sides as well in that little surge pre-Mitrovic. Actually took him 4 games to get his first goal there (vs us, typically)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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