The Championship FFP Thread (Merged)

[Bristol Rob]

On the plus side, if Villa have already sold themselves the stadium for 200mil, they can't sell it again when they invariably get relegated and have another 3 year stay in the Championship.

Unless they buy the stadium back of course.

[BCFC11]

I’m still totally baffled as to why not 1 Championship club gave Steve Gibson their backing? There must surely be more to it than the obvious loopholes Villa/Derby have used for him to receive no support over this?

[downendcity]

On 28/05/2019 at 08:38, Bristol Rob said:

On the plus side, if Villa have already sold themselves the stadium for 200mil, they can't sell it again when they invariably get relegated and have another 3 year stay in the Championship.

Unless they buy the stadium back of course.

Derby will buy it and sell it on to Villa. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

8 hours ago, downendcity said:

Derby will buy it and sell it on to Villa. 

And while the deal`s being sorted out it will just be resting in Sheffield Wednesday`s account.

[Bristol Rob]

31 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

And while the deal`s being sorted out it will just be resting in Sheffield Wednesday`s account.

It's okay, Bailey Wright can monitor the account as he will have been suspended as a result of these sales.

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 hours ago, BCFC11 said:

I’m still totally baffled as to why not 1 Championship club gave Steve Gibson their backing? There must surely be more to it than the obvious loopholes Villa/Derby have used for him to receive no support over this?

I think a few may have done- there are rumours that Bristol City and Nottingham Forest are also keen on, supporting this legal case.

Unless you mean the March/April meetings? I remember talk of SL being keen on it, on seeing these rules enforced correctly and Nottingham Forest too- seems to be a bit of a split in the League though...some clubs were actually pushing for a relaxation of the rules from what they are now!

[downendcity]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think a few may have done- there are rumours that Bristol City and Nottingham Forest are also keen on, supporting this legal case.

Unless you mean the March/April meetings? I remember talk of SL being keen on it, on seeing these rules enforced correctly and Nottingham Forest too- seems to be a bit of a split in the League though...some clubs were actually pushing for a relaxation of the rules from what they are now!

Ive wondered whether this might be the case Mr P - it would explain the apparent lack of support earlier in the year.

Some clubs might be finding it too much of an uphill battle to try and control their finances in order to stay within ffp and still remain competitive. Others might have owners frustrated by the financial constraints ffp brings and which prevent them using their money to boost their on field fortunes.

In either case, it might be that by keeping their powder dry, while seeing clubs like Derby and Villa seemingly "getting away with it" and benefitting as a result, they feel that clubs and the EFL will give up on ffp, thereby allowing clubs to run their financial affairs as they please.

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 hours ago, downendcity said:

Ive wondered whether this might be the case Mr P - it would explain the apparent lack of support earlier in the year.

Some clubs might be finding it too much of an uphill battle to try and control their finances in order to stay within ffp and still remain competitive. Others might have owners frustrated by the financial constraints ffp brings and which prevent them using their money to boost their on field fortunes.

In either case, it might be that by keeping their powder dry, while seeing clubs like Derby and Villa seemingly "getting away with it" and benefitting as a result, they feel that clubs and the EFL will give up on ffp, thereby allowing clubs to run their financial affairs as they please.

I wonder if quite a few are planning on doing a Mel Morris and selling their grounds to related parties.

I would say giving it up could pose a problem, not just from a financial POV. In the highly unlikely event that a club outside the top flight wins FA Cup, or Carling (whatever it's called now!) or a relegated club wins either, if EFL has no FFP rules, would they get a UEFA License? Not sure- this is an outside possibility. More realistic perhaps is if a club goes up and then gets into Europe the same season and is in 3 year breach as per the rules of FFP when there were none at this level, again UEFA would be well within rights well IMO anyway, to refuse a license during that period for said club. Wouldn't expect some of the short termist foreign in particular- but not exclusively- owners to think this far ahead though...

I can't see a majority voting to scrap it though. I'd like to see a vote this summer tbh, on whether to punish Derby and when they choose to release their accounts if they have done the same, Sheffield Wednesday. EFL should grow a pair literally put it to a formal vote of clubs and particularly those in the Championship- if there is no majority then so be it!

Interesting story as it goes, just found it- not even read it!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7088131/Championship-clubs-fear-Aston-Villa-avoid-points-deduction-breach-FFP-rules.html

[downendcity]

33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I wonder if quite a few are planning on doing a Mel Morris and selling their grounds to related parties.

I would say giving it up could pose a problem, not just from a financial POV. In the highly unlikely event that a club outside the top flight wins FA Cup, or Carling (whatever it's called now!) or a relegated club wins either, if EFL has no FFP rules, would they get a UEFA License? Not sure- this is an outside possibility. More realistic perhaps is if a club goes up and then gets into Europe the same season and is in 3 year breach as per the rules of FFP when there were none at this level, again UEFA would be well within rights well IMO anyway, to refuse a license during that period for said club. Wouldn't expect some of the short termist foreign in particular- but not exclusively- owners to think this far ahead though...

I can't see a majority voting to scrap it though. I'd like to see a vote this summer tbh, on whether to punish Derby and when they choose to release their accounts if they have done the same, Sheffield Wednesday. EFL should grow a pair literally put it to a formal vote of clubs and particularly those in the Championship- if there is no majority then so be it!

Interesting story as it goes, just found it- not even read it!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7088131/Championship-clubs-fear-Aston-Villa-avoid-points-deduction-breach-FFP-rules.html

Re the Villa story, suggesting championship clubs wanting the premier league to apply a points deduction if Villa are found to have breached.

There may be something obvious I've missed, but I thought one of the main purposes behind the new ffp rules was that by requiring clubs to provide projected accounts in year 3, it would enable a breach to be identified and appropriate punishment given during the same season.

If so, I can't for the life of me work out why Vila's situation still seems uncertain. Has the EFL not received Villa's accounts, to enable the requisite ffp checks to be undertaken, because if so then that has to ring alarm bells? If they have received  all the account information, then either Villa are within ffp, or not. If the former, then all the EFL has to do is confirm this to be the case, even if we are not too happy with the decision. If the latter, then it really is a can of worms and I would have thought serious questions should be asked of the EFL's governance.

As for the suggestion about championship clubs hoping that the premier league will apply a points deduction should Villa have breached ffp. That smacks of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, as I presume the prem can only deduct points for next season, by which time Vila will already be benefitting financially from promotion to the premier league as a result of cheating.

If the EFL want ffp to continue, then they really need to get their act together. They need to address the loophole Derby has exploited and get experts to look at the ffp rules to identify any other areas clubs could look to exploit and amend the rules as necessary. They also need to grow a pair, and ensure that the rules are applied and penalties given notwithstanding which club is involved, as I think many fans currently feel that Villa got off the hook because of who they are.

[Mr Popodopolous]

26 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Re the Villa story, suggesting championship clubs wanting the premier league to apply a points deduction if Villa are found to have breached.

There may be something obvious I've missed, but I thought one of the main purposes behind the new ffp rules was that by requiring clubs to provide projected accounts in year 3, it would enable a breach to be identified and appropriate punishment given during the same season.

If so, I can't for the life of me work out why Vila's situation still seems uncertain. Has the EFL not received Villa's accounts, to enable the requisite ffp checks to be undertaken, because if so then that has to ring alarm bells? If they have received  all the account information, then either Villa are within ffp, or not. If the former, then all the EFL has to do is confirm this to be the case, even if we are not too happy with the decision. If the latter, then it really is a can of worms and I would have thought serious questions should be asked of the EFL's governance.

 As for the suggestion about championship clubs hoping that the premier league will apply a points deduction should Villa have breached ffp. That smacks of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, as I presume the prem can only deduct points for next season, by which time Vila will already be benefitting financially from promotion to the premier league as a result of cheating.

If the EFL want ffp to continue, then they really need to get their act together. They need to address the loophole Derby has exploited and get experts to look at the ffp rules to identify any other areas clubs could look to exploit and amend the rules as necessary. They also need to grow a pair, and ensure that the rules are applied and penalties given notwithstanding which club is involved, as I think many fans currently feel that Villa got off the hook because of who they are.

Agree with all of this- an organisation headed up by Shaun Harvey though, can we expect anything better, look how they messed up the Birmingham one, how slow it was, never mind such wizardry as interpreting projected accounts and punishing accordingly in 2017/18! I always think back to what @Coppello wrote about someone from EFL finance department on here and it makes me pretty pissed off.

A soft embargo and an appropriate points deduction could see them come straight back down, but you are right the money aspect is ill-gotten gains as far as I'm concerned- not in a legal sense I hasten to add, but ethically, morally.

Now Birmingham are on one season account submissions until the 2017/18 period is spent and I assume that will be a precedent moving forward...therefore rationally they should also cut the overspend threshold by a third- bet they won't though! 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

 

Quote

 

Championship clubs are concerned that the Premier League will not impose a points deduction on Aston Villa if they are found to have breached profit and sustainability rules.

Villa, who were promoted to the top flight after beating Derby County in Monday's Championship play-off final at Wembley, are among a number of clubs — Derby included — currently operating under a soft transfer embargo while the English Football League continue to assess their P and S submission.

Officials at Villa Park have insisted they will be compliant with financial fair play regulations despite reports of heavy losses.

 

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The Football League is investigating Aston Villa, who are under a soft transfer embargo

 

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Aston Villa secured promotion to the Premier League via the Championship play-offs

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But Sportsmail understands high-level discussions are currently taking place between the EFL and the Premier League - discussions being led by the Football League's interim chair Debbie Jevans, amid concern that there could be lack of consistency in applying the appropriate sanctions.

In March an independent panel concluded that Birmingham City should be hit with a nine-point deduction by the EFL after incurring losses of nearly £48.8m between 2015 and 2018 — and therefore breaching the £39m three-year limit — and clubs would certainly like to see consistency should Villa also be found to be in breach.

But insiders believe poor communication between the EFL and the Premier League has led to 'a disconnect'. 

'The rules are supposed to be aligned across the leagues but there is a concern that the interpretation of those rules is different,' said one source.

 

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Championship clubs fear a lack of consistency if Villa escape punishment for FFP breaches

Sportsmail understands there would be a reluctance among senior Premier League officials to hit a newly-promoted club with a points deduction, and so making it all the more harder for them to survive in the top flight.

However, what concerns the clubs, and is likely to be the point being made by the EFL, is the message the Premier League will be delivering if they don't agree with a points deduction for a club that breaks financial rules to reach football's promised land with its television riches.

'The winner of the Championship play-off final lands a £170m jackpot so if the only punishment if you are then found guilty of breaching the regulations is a fine, you take that gamble,' said one club official. 'Because the worst that then happens, if you fail to get promoted, is you start the new Championship season with a points deduction.'

 

 

 

My depressing but possibly likely take on the Aston Villa issue is that the PL won't do anything or want to do anything to dilute their "brand", brand at all costs so won't apply the regs for an FFP overspend- I reckon based on formulas and mitigation- somewhere between 10-15 points and a soft embargo. It is almost impossible to fail FFP in the Premier League and I don't believe that to be an accident. Why is a League with such higher revenue- and costs admittedly, but a higher by far ratio of income/costs, giving such leeway of £35m (plus allowable costs) per season??

 

Where we may well have more hope is the Derby issue...

 

Quote

 

The dispute that has been raging for much of the season between Championship clubs is likely to remain on the agenda at next week's AGM in Portugal.

Reports last week suggested Middlesbrough have issued a legal letter to Derby in the belief a side that finished one point ahead of them, and in the play-offs, broke the rules when owner Mel Morris essentially bought the stadium with another company he also owns for what, at £80m, was double the value of what Pride Park was listed in the club's books as an asset.

It meant Derby were able to report a pre-tax profit of £14.6m and while the EFL might yet conclude the stadium purchase has been completed within the rules, Boro owner and chairman Steve Gibson has made no secret of the fact that he has a different view.

 

That means thought that this is unfinished business and possibly significantly, the EFL might yet conclude that it was completed as an attempt to evade the rules- it is unknown at this time. I think a vote of clubs is the best way to settle this Derby, possibly Sheffield Wednesday issue.

How they do it elsewhere. I believe Bundesliga you have to get a license to prove finances all in order. Palermo got docked 20 points in Serie B season just gone, admittedly a court downgraded it from automatic relegation. Think 2017/18 Serie B table looks nuts with deductions, demotions etc!

[downendcity]

37 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree with all of this- an organisation headed up by Shaun Harvey though, can we expect anything better, look how they messed up the Birmingham one, how slow it was, never mind such wizardry as interpreting projected accounts and punishing accordingly in 2017/18! I always think back to what @Coppello wrote about someone from EFL finance department on here and it makes me pretty pissed off.

A soft embargo and an appropriate points deduction could see them come straight back down, but you are right the money aspect is ill-gotten gains as far as I'm concerned- not in a legal sense I hasten to add, but ethically, morally.

Now Birmingham are on one season account submissions until the 2017/18 period is spent and I assume that will be a precedent moving forward...therefore rationally they should also cut the overspend threshold by a third- bet they won't though! 

Think you might a bit overqualified for the EFL Mr P!

[Davefevs]

The argument I get Re FFP on twitter from Villa fans is Christian Purslow wrote the FFP rules, so they’ll be alright.  From what Copello states that probably enough for the EFL guys to not bother looking at Villa’s projected submission.

What I do find worrying is talk that they are under soft embargo....that must mean they are in trouble, in which case why haven’t the EFL docked them points / stopped them going up?

[downendcity]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The argument I get Re FFP on twitter from Villa fans is Christian Purslow wrote the FFP rules, so they’ll be alright.  From what Copello states that probably enough for the EFL guys to not bother looking at Villa’s projected submission.

What I do find worrying is talk that they are under soft embargo....that must mean they are in trouble, in which case why haven’t the EFL docked them points / stopped them going up?

Must be because everyone knows that Villa deserve to be back in the premier league.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, downendcity said:

Think you might a bit overqualified for the EFL Mr P!

Haha, I think many on here could be also classed as that- those who post on this thread for one and many more besides!

31 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The argument I get Re FFP on twitter from Villa fans is Christian Purslow wrote the FFP rules, so they’ll be alright.  From what Copello states that probably enough for the EFL guys to not bother looking at Villa’s projected submission.

What I do find worrying is talk that they are under soft embargo....that must mean they are in trouble, in which case why haven’t the EFL docked them points / stopped them going up?

The other interesting angle- other than favouritism to "big" clubs of course, is that maybe the EFL only wish to punish the most blatant of breaches e.g. Birmingham and QPR heavily, to keep the "product" more attractive. Less money to spend on wages, means less bigger names, less players- it can still be done of course but the EFL are likely walking a tightrope. Serie B is quite a bit harsher on financial breaches though it is unclear if it's FFP or outright irregularities! Dunno if Germany still has the license requirement. As for EFL I mean if rules bent a bit, and especially if it is a "big" club look the other way and whistle. I also wonder if they messed up projected accounts legally by not punishing Birmingham in 2017/18...9 points slapped on a year earlier would surely have sent them down.

Birmingham's misfortune was through being too honest in a sense, and yet their fortune was the EFL seemed unwilling or unable to do projected accounts as submitted by Birmingham themselves in March 2018!! Precedent set- for the in-season punishments at least?

By way of comparison to a 2nd tier which while not as big as this League, go on Wiki, 2017/18 and 2018/19 Serie B...note how many points deductions etc! Think 2 clubs even got demoted TWO divisions from Serie B to D for financial irregularities.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Haha, I think many on here could be also classed as that- those who post on this thread for one and many more besides!

The other interesting angle- other than favouritism to "big" clubs of course, is that maybe the EFL only wish to punish the most blatant of breaches e.g. Birmingham and QPR heavily, to keep the "product" more attractive. Less money to spend on wages, means less bigger names, less players- it can still be done of course but the EFL are likely walking a tightrope. Serie B is quite a bit harsher on financial breaches though it is unclear if it's FFP or outright irregularities! Dunno if Germany still has the license requirement. As for EFL I mean if rules bent a bit, and especially if it is a "big" club look the other way and whistle. I also wonder if they messed up projected accounts legally by not punishing Birmingham in 2017/18...9 points slapped on a year earlier would surely have sent them down.

Birmingham's misfortune was through being too honest in a sense, and yet their fortune was the EFL seemed unwilling or unable to do projected accounts as submitted by Birmingham themselves in March 2018!! Precedent set- for the in-season punishments at least?

By way of comparison to a 2nd tier which while not as big as this League, go on Wiki, 2017/18 and 2018/19 Serie B...note how many points deductions etc! Think 2 clubs even got demoted TWO divisions from Serie B to D for financial irregularities.

I think this could be the pertinent point.

EFL aware of Brum’s difficulties in May 2018.  What did embargo and hand-holding them actually do to their accounts?  Nothing!  They ultimately post a loss in the ball-park they projected (you imagine).  So the embargo and hand-holding is about trying to correct them going forwards....it can’t possibly resolve their annual accounts unless they sold Adams early last summer.  That obviously didn’t happen....he’s still at Brum now.  In effect, they let Burton and Barnsley be relegated whilst they sorted out the mess.

That is what they’re now doing with Villa.  Soft embargo whilst they sort out out their sale and lease-back, whilst privately hoping they get promoted...the Prem won’t deduct points, they’ll apply a fine at worst, which is covered by the £100m+.  Had they lost to Derby, I’m pretty sure the ground deal would’ve been sped-up to fall into this year’s accounts and negate any further sanction.

All in all, the projected accounts should be a trigger for taking action in the season, when all they are really being used for is a trigger for the EFL to start helping a club (depending on their size) to get around sanction.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think this could be the pertinent point.

EFL aware of Brum’s difficulties in May 2018.  What did embargo and hand-holding them actually do to their accounts?  Nothing!  They ultimately post a loss in the ball-park they projected (you imagine).  So the embargo and hand-holding is about trying to correct them going forwards....it can’t possibly resolve their annual accounts unless they sold Adams early last summer.  That obviously didn’t happen....he’s still at Brum now.  In effect, they let Burton and Barnsley be relegated whilst they sorted out the mess.

That is what they’re now doing with Villa.  Soft embargo whilst they sort out out their sale and lease-back, whilst privately hoping they get promoted...the Prem won’t deduct points, they’ll apply a fine at worst, which is covered by the £100m+.  Had they lost to Derby, I’m pretty sure the ground deal would’ve been sped-up to fall into this year’s accounts and negate any further sanction.

All in all, the projected accounts should be a trigger for taking action in the season, when all they are really being used for is a trigger for the EFL to start helping a club (depending on their size) to get around sanction.

 

Agreed...the one possibility with Birmingham is they could have sold and sold well in the month or 2 until June 30th as it would have been included in their accounts- say sold well I don't know who was a real saleable asset for them a year ago, but if they had sold some, Adams was okay but not spectacular a year ago- was only 2018/19 he really kicked on, and Stoke had sold Butland in that period, then that would have likely resolved their issues- they were banking on a big sell on fee for Butland in particular I believe. Should have been applied in-season as per their own regulations however!

Better be quick about it, sale and leaseback- Aston Villa's accounts run until 31st May 2019, though what odds they shift the reporting period to 30th June or 31st July 2019? I am fairly sure I read somewhere there was an agreement between EFL and EPL to enforce EFL sanctions in PL, but is it worth the paper it's written on?  EPL won't want to dilute their "brand" in any possible way- an outside body maybe useful in the medium to long run to get a grip...£35m losses combined with huge TV money means it is virtually impossible now to fail FFP as a PL club and that suits them just fine!

Fully agree- I think EFL are a mix of cowardly and incompetent though- they missed the boat somewhat with Birmingham- and have possibly made a rod for their own back. These things can still be changed, and the 2 in the Championship who have sold ground could yet be punished- Aston Villa we'll see- but it would require a full vote IMO.

[sh1t_ref_again]

58 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Must be because everyone knows that Villa deserve to be back in the premier league.

well according to a vile fan

 

The Premier League will be delighted that one of the truly big clubs is back in the fold. They will not risk losing us, only to end up with another Bournemouth, Brighton or Burnley, no offence intended to those clubs. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Other end of the table, but Reading may also be under an embargo of some description.

[downendcity]

9 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

well according to a vile fan

 

The Premier League will be delighted that one of the truly big clubs is back in the fold. They will not risk losing us, only to end up with another Bournemouth, Brighton or Burnley, no offence intended to those clubs. 

If it were not for unsatisfactory aspect of their ffp issues, the upside of Villa's promotion is that we've now seen the back of them and their entitled fans for at least one season.

As the premier league can't risk losing Villa, I guess they will give them special dispensation so that they get 5 points for a win, 3 for a draw and 1 for a defeat as this should ensure they stay"in the fold".

[Lanterne Rouge]

10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I wonder if quite a few are planning on doing a Mel Morris and selling their grounds to related parties.

I would say giving it up could pose a problem, not just from a financial POV. In the highly unlikely event that a club outside the top flight wins FA Cup, or Carling (whatever it's called now!) or a relegated club wins either, if EFL has no FFP rules, would they get a UEFA License? Not sure- this is an outside possibility. 

 

That one`s easy - UEFA would take it as a God-given excuse to prevent a club from the lower orders entering their golden competitions and just stick another Premier League club in instead.

[bcfc01]

This is getting a bit of a boring thread now.

Blokes going round in circles.

I'll wait till something comes of it - or not.

[Mr Popodopolous]

https://astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/cheers-steve-gibson-is-crying-again-major-changes-behind-the-scenes-at-aston-villa/

Aren't a substantial minority of Aston Villa fans odious?

One note on this- they should be docked points in PL, but failing that?

Simple- follow the formula used on Birmingham and dock points according to that- historic breaches are breaches nonetheless, none of this fine nonsense- doesn't matter if they are up for 1 year or for 10 years, they should be in no doubt that a punishment- and using the Birmingham formula that is 11-21 points- should await them on their return.

Soft embargo too.

Dunno if clubs would need to vote on it though?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Rumours that Birmingham now looking at the same in terms of stadium sale and leaseback!?

Birmingham fans on their forum aren't exactly optimistic about it though!

Edited June 3, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[Sniper]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

https://astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/cheers-steve-gibson-is-crying-again-major-changes-behind-the-scenes-at-aston-villa/

Aren't a substantial minority of Aston Villa fans odious?

One note on this- they should be docked points in PL, but failing that?

Simple- follow the formula used on Birmingham and dock points according to that- historic breaches are breaches nonetheless, none of this fine nonsense- doesn't matter if they are up for 1 year or for 10 years, they should be in no doubt that a punishment- and using the Birmingham formula that is 11-21 points- should await them on their return.

Soft embargo too.

Dunno if clubs would need to vote on it though?

I've come to hate their arrogance, self entitlement, and bellendish behavior all season belittling every other Championship club. They really are a vile set of supporters. The sort of people I'd cross the road to avoid.

I'm very much looking forward to them getting smashed every game next season, and get relegated back where hopefully they will self implode with the financial importance they seem to think is a divine right because they are so superior, and disappear up their own shite pipe without a trace.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Sniper

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

https://astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/cheers-steve-gibson-is-crying-again-major-changes-behind-the-scenes-at-aston-villa/

Aren't a substantial minority of Aston Villa fans odious?

One note on this- they should be docked points in PL, but failing that?

Simple- follow the formula used on Birmingham and dock points according to that- historic breaches are breaches nonetheless, none of this fine nonsense- doesn't matter if they are up for 1 year or for 10 years, they should be in no doubt that a punishment- and using the Birmingham formula that is 11-21 points- should await them on their return.

Soft embargo too.

Dunno if clubs would need to vote on it though?

"Although the releases were dated May 30, they came into effect back in the middle of the month and with it already known that one of our arms had rebranded itself as NSWE Stadium Limited, that had already kick started further speculation that we were planning to following the lead of Derby when it came to their stadium sale and lease back deal.

With promotion secured I assume this might not now be a path we follow – but the structure is clearly in place if we want to."

So had promotion not been secured I wonder why this would have been the path they would probably have followed? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

25 minutes ago, Sniper said:

I've come to hate their arrogance, self entitlement, and bellendish behavior all season belittling every other Championship club. They really are a vile set of supporters. The sort of people I'd cross the road to avoid.

I'm very much looking forward to them getting smashed every game next season, and get relegated back where hopefully they will self implode with the financial importance they seem to think is a divine right because they are so superior, and disappear up their own shite pipe without a trace.

Yeah- the worst I have seen certainly.

I hope they come back down, straight back down and get a points penalty either this season or held in reserve for their return- think EFL FFP rules suggest historic breaches can be punished- UEFA going after Man City sets an interesting benchmark in this respect.

15 minutes ago, downendcity said:

"Although the releases were dated May 30, they came into effect back in the middle of the month and with it already known that one of our arms had rebranded itself as NSWE Stadium Limited, that had already kick started further speculation that we were planning to following the lead of Derby when it came to their stadium sale and lease back deal.

With promotion secured I assume this might not now be a path we follow – but the structure is clearly in place if we want to."

So had promotion not been secured I wonder why this would have been the path they would probably have followed? 

Well quite.

There was an excellent window of opportunity to close this loophole- they might actually do it in any case to spend more still in PL?

13th May 2019 was when name was changed for this, therefore paving the way for it to be done- EFL and the useless bastard Shaun Harvey asleep...again! Ample time to change the rules between Derby and that.

On the Derby front, the company who purchased it was Gellaw Newco 203 Limited- Companies House says it was incorporated on 18th June 2018...EFL should've been wise to this at the time, the transaction would have been done in 12 days therefore as Derby's accounts ran until June 30th 2018.

I also notice that NSWE Stadium Limited- previously known as Recon Football Limited until 13th May 2019 had an "Audit Exemption subsidiary accounts" . Could all be legit and not suggesting any wrongdoing- seems applicable with company and accounting law etc.

One more note on Derby.

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/midlands/stadium-transformation-plan-revealed

This, combined with commercial revenue showing its potential, it being completed in 1997 and and Mel Morris wanting to make the most of the commercial facilities minus depreciation is why I believe it could have risen from £20-21m in 2013 to £40m or so in 2017/18. Never in a million years what it went for though!

Edited June 3, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[Olé]

39 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Rumours that Birmingham now looking at the same in terms of stadium sale and leaseback!?

Just seen that - EFL well and truly losing control now!

Quote

Documents from Companies House confirm that a new subsidiary of Birmingham Sports Holdings has been created in the UK in the last fortnight which looks to be specifically to complete the sale of the stadium.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Olé said:

Just seen that - EFL well and truly losing control now!

 

One compromise solution here- obviously such sales need to be backdated and retrospective punishment applied.

Failing that though...let every club do it once and then shut off the loophole for good. EFL have a lot to answer for though- MA in Shaun Harvey's position- he would have seen this was enforced and do so well...going to be a very interesting end of season Conference/meeting indeed in Portugal!! To be a fly on the wall eh?

Edited June 3, 2019 by Mr Popodopolous

[sh1t_ref_again]

if they don't close the loophole, then clubs could be clever and exploit further buy only selling a percentage of it ground each year for just enough to prevent FFP, also avoiding any tax implications.