Jump to content
IGNORED

The Championship FFP Thread (Merged)


Mr Popodopolous
 Share

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, chinapig said:

I wouldn't be surprised if there has been a conversation with the EFL.

 "Don't worry, you won't get a points deduction, we'll agree a purely symbolic fine then you can carry on as before. If we want to make an example of somebody we'll go after some penniless League 2 club."

Cynical , moi?😉

They probably looked at QPR.

originally rumour was £60m fine, then it turned out to be £42m. That then got haggled down to £17m and the owners writing off £22m. Not sure who was owner then, but if it was the 3 that were in charge when they sounded all the money, they were worth around £25 billion !

Villa probably thought the risk worth it, that and I don’t think the League can chase a Prem club to impose the fine if they did make it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

IF this happens it could be the defining moment for FFP in English football.

Somwhow I suspect it won’t be a points deduction punishment.

I also believe that Villa, who must also have issues, have spent in Jan comfortable in the knowledge that any punishment will be financial.

Otherwise their actions are bizarre.

There's no doubt it's a watershed moment.

Birmingham get docked a healthy number of points, plus embargoed and maybe fined? Big precedent. Lots of clubs should be wary moving forward...

@1960maaan That was under the old rules. This aforementioned Birmingham case, is the first serious test case under the old rules...if they don't get a points deduction, or a long term embargo at bare minimum- but really it should be points plus couple of windows embargo- we may as well scrap the whole thing.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

.if they don't get a points deduction, or a long term embargo at bare minimum- but really it should be points plus couple of windows embargo- we may as well scrap the whole thing.

Agree.

the embargo’s have been pretty toothless previously. In some cases it seemed clubs have done business knowing that they can’t deal in the following window. Should be instant, not the window after next each time.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

They probably looked at QPR.

originally rumour was £60m fine, then it turned out to be £42m. That then got haggled down to £17m and the owners writing off £22m. Not sure who was owner then, but if it was the 3 that were in charge when they sounded all the money, they were worth around £25 billion !

Villa probably thought the risk worth it, that and I don’t think the League can chase a Prem club to impose the fine if they did make it.

 

33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

There's no doubt it's a watershed moment.

Birmingham get docked a healthy number of points, plus embargoed and maybe fined? Big precedent. Lots of clubs should be wary moving forward...

@1960maaan That was under the old rules. This aforementioned Birmingham case, is the first serious test case under the old rules...if they don't get a points deduction, or a long term embargo at bare minimum- but really it should be points plus couple of windows embargo- we may as well scrap the whole thing.

I think most are now aware that the new rules allow a points penalty to be applied for clubs that breach and that this can be used to deny a club promotion. A few , including me, have indicated that it needs big club like villa to be hit this way if FFP is to really work going forward, on the assumption that Villa will finish in the promotion/play off places.

It might be ironic if Villa do fall foul of FFP but are well out of the play off picture. If that were the case, would then a big fine plus a transfer embargo hit them harder?

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, downendcity said:

 

I think most are now aware that the new rules allow a points penalty to be applied for clubs that breach and that this can be used to deny a club promotion. A few , including me, have indicated that it needs big club like villa to be hit this way if FFP is to really work going forward, on the assumption that Villa will finish in the promotion/play off places.

It might be ironic if Villa do fall foul of FFP but are well out of the play off picture. If that were the case, would then a big fine plus a transfer embargo hit them harder?

 

Could a points penalty be applied to Aston Villa next year perhaps?

Because chances are that if they were in breach for the 3 years to this season, they will be in breach for the 3 years to next season. Perhaps by more as this is the 3rd and final year of parachute payments.

Aggravated breach- keeping Chester and Grealish when they were bids for them seemingly? If Birmingham get punished on that, then so can Aston Villa possibly.

Fine. Maybe, maybe not- how would it be calculated with regards FFP? If it didn't count towards their FFP figure then it's questionable. Embargo though? Should already be in one IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Could a points penalty be applied to Aston Villa next year perhaps?

Because chances are that if they were in breach for the 3 years to this season, they will be in breach for the 3 years to next season. Perhaps by more as this is the 3rd and final year of parachute payments.

Aggravated breach- keeping Chester and Grealish when they were bids for them seemingly? If Birmingham get punished on that, then so can Aston Villa possibly.

Fine. Maybe, maybe not- how would it be calculated with regards FFP? If it didn't count towards their FFP figure then it's questionable. Embargo though? Should already be in one IMO.

The next few weeks could get hugely interesting. Reading the article from The Times further up in this thread it is mooted that one of the reasons Brum kept hold of Che Adams was because they believe a potential points deduction this season could put them into a relegation fight! and was worth the risk of aggravated breach!

So, if true, Brum see a points deduction as a real threat.

Villa, on the other hand, seem to be carrying on regardless - are they maybe not in breach? Or, at least dont think they are?

Interesting times.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

The next few weeks could get hugely interesting. Reading the article from The Times further up in this thread it is mooted that one of the reasons Brum kept hold of Che Adams was because they believe a potential points deduction this season could put them into a relegation fight! and was worth the risk of aggravated breach!

So, if true, Brum see a points deduction as a real threat.

Villa, on the other hand, seem to be carrying on regardless - are they maybe not in breach? Or, at least dont think they are?

Interesting times.

 

Yeah, that figures- they can always sell Adams in the summer I suppose, and goals of Adams get them over the line.

In terms of a points deduction, 12-15 points I believe is the most quoted figure. If it came to pass, that would definitely put them in amongst the relegation scrap- I think they would have enough to survive but they would be down there at the very least on the edges of it.

Aston Villa...it's an interesting one. From 2015/16 i.e. their last season in the PL to last season, I don't believe they breached. Narrow margins probably but still alright. However the crunch of £22m knocked off allowable losses (in PL you can lose £35m per season, in Championship it's £13m- total falls from £61m to £39m max losses plus academy expenditure etc) combined with their parachute payments dropping from £33m to £15m this year- that's £40m minus any surplus they had in 3 year FFP- say they still had £5m left to play with, then it's a shortfall of £35m additional income they needed to find from last season to this. However they can spend because they aren't technically in breach until March. That said come March, their breach will surely be very large and they need to be made an example of.

Definitely interesting times.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

It's clear what's happened here.

One of Swansea's staff has been reading OTIB to see how other clubs are doing FFP wise, saw my post and thought "Hmm,  he makes a good point. Why haven't we offered a new contract yet?"

No other explanation.

 

How much are you getting as an "agents" fee James?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Get the feeling it's a decision that suits everyone. Brum won't be going up or down. Easy way out sanction. 

If they were in or near the relegation zone I don't think such a sanction would be imposed. Football authorities are very weak. 

A relegation would be punishment. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

Get the feeling it's a decision that suits everyone. Brum won't be going up or down. Easy way out sanction. 

If they were in or near the relegation zone I don't think such a sanction would be imposed. Football authorities are very weak. 

A relegation would be punishment. 

A 12-15 point deduction could see them slide into the mire tbh.

@chinapig @Davefevs Punishment would fit the crime well and truly- great news eh!

 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

Get the feeling it's a decision that suits everyone. Brum won't be going up or down. Easy way out sanction. 

If they were in or near the relegation zone I don't think such a sanction would be imposed. Football authorities are very weak. 

A relegation would be punishment. 

This was one of my concerns about the points deduction option, i.e. that it could be applied to a club where the effect would be relatively negligible and to avoid  a big fine that might cause a knock on effect, in terms of the club's financial solvency and the danger of causing real financial problems.

However........

32 minutes ago, chinapig said:

It came from Mark Clemmit , who knows his stuff. Will set an important precedent if true.

Could the EFL for instance deduct points from Brum but not Villa?

If a points penalty is applied to Brum, then it does set a precedent, so it makes it difficult for the EFL  not to apply the same sanction where a club would be hit hard i.e. taking them out of the promotion race or putting them into a relegation fight. 

Should Villa fall foul of ffp, then given their transfer activity - the players they've brought in- and not selling players like Grealish surely it would come into the aggravated breach category and deserving of the toughest penalty?

 

Edited by downendcity
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Isn’t there a possibility that they could also give a points deduction to next season too?

That'd be the aggravated breach- 9 points if proven according to that Times piece. In addition to any deduction this season.

I doubl Birmingham will be free of FFP issues in fact until 2020/21 at the earliest, so it's never been tested fully but in theory I suppose they would be open to rolling punishments until it is cleared. Whether that happens in practice is a different matter.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, downendcity said:

 

Should Villa fall foul of ffp, then given their transfer activity - the players they've brought in- and not selling players like Grealish surely it would come into the aggravated breach category and deserving of the toughest penalty?

 

I don't imagine that not selling Grealish will be a factor, if the player didn't want to move, you can't force him, and If the offers they received were well below perceived market value you can't blame them for keeping him.

A transfer embargo would be interesting however, they seem to be a bit leaky at the back, and without the chance to improve in that area, they could well find themselves stuck in this division for the foreseeable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Bristol Rob said:

I don't imagine that not selling Grealish will be a factor, if the player didn't want to move, you can't force him, and If the offers they received were well below perceived market value you can't blame them for keeping him.

A transfer embargo would be interesting however, they seem to be a bit leaky at the back, and without the chance to improve in that area, they could well find themselves stuck in this division for the foreseeable.

My mistake - thought they did get offers in the summer.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

If memory serves, Spurs made a bid, but it was about fifteen million short of their valuation.

Still turned down a legitimate bid for a saleable asset when breaching FFP that could have helped resolve it- perhaps classed as an aggravated breach.

Where it may diverge is that Birmingham were IIRC working under an EFL business plan- maybe still are- and so far as I can see, Aston Villa are not at this time and perhaps were not then, so harder to enforce in that instance.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

I just hope they don`t deduct them points the day before we play them. They`d be so fired  up.

Would be typical!

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Fam will be spitting if they do....or is it sweat?

Oh I forgot about that...let us hope Messrs Dean and Davis get the welcome and subsequently through the game, the reception (i.e. booing every time they touch the ball) that kinda thing!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Would be typical!

Oh I forgot about that...let us hope Messrs Dean and Davis get the welcome and subsequently through the game, the reception (i.e. booing every time they touch the ball) that kinda thing!

Think Fam was pretty fired up in the away game....should be the same for the home game too.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...