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Text to report anti-social behaviour at AG (Merged)


CyderInACan

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15 hours ago, JulieH said:

I am aware of this result and we are seeking advice with regards to an appeal regarding the banning order not being given by the court . 

Why? First time offence, he's expressed remorse. I don't know the individual but the magistrate has concluded that as a consequence of being prosecuted he is unlikely to do it again; isn't the point of punishment supposed to act as a deterrent and hence if it has done so that is what is most important?

 

Passing down his sentence, magistrate Craig Pocock said: "As you know, this has no place in football or indeed in society.

"We've taken into account your mitigation and read your letter and we're not going to make the order on this occasion because we do not feel there is any likelihood of reocurrence.

"Any repetition of any bad language at a football match and you will be back."

 

13 hours ago, Pezo said:

I would say it's not worth an appeal and the waist of precious police and court resources. As stated he has no history, it would be unlikely for him to re-offend now he understands that it isn't the same as calling someone Welsh, he now knows the implications of his actions and the club has banned him anyway. 

Agreed. 

4 hours ago, SX227 said:

Wow - he's been to court, not got a ban, and with all that's going on in the UK you want to waste time having a 2nd pop?

He's banned by the club and been shamed by the press.It will cost him future employment advancement, and his family have also undoubtedly suffered for his ridiculous and offensive attitude and comments.

He admits he is ashamed and is deeply regretful. He has apologised.

Point made, move on.

 

Agreed.

 

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6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's unacceptable conduct in the ground of course. He seems to have shown remorse.

FSF Faircop has an interesting take. Dare say @JulieH has seen it already but if not, and indeed for all.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FSF_FairCop/status/1111946048535216129

Yes I have seen that.

unfortunately in this case the court did not order attendance at event of this nature which is a shame as previously stated education is key .

 

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4 hours ago, JulieH said:

Yes I have seen that.

unfortunately in this case the court did not order attendance at event of this nature which is a shame as previously stated education is key .

 

Thanks- that's slightly surprising then.

Not so much the lack of banning order but the lack of an educational order. Unsure a banning order would be justified in this instance, though the individual clearly in the wrong.

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On 08/01/2019 at 10:19, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yeah, what maybe innocuous to Person A maybe offensive or overboard to the other and in goes the text.

That's a problem- not sure I agree with all your points but it's a risk. That said it sounds like the club have a handle on it, so if they aren't directing stewards into the crowd for little things as per the example of @Harry earlier in the thread then seems like it could be alright...

Then there's another issue, can come down to variables that can literally change game by game. i.e. Which steward is in said position on the day, some may have a light touch approach, some maybe security personnel used to nightclubs/bars with little knowledge of or care for football crowd dynamics. Likewise the tolerance threshold of the safety officer or whoever will receive and act on the text- one may have a fairly relaxed/pragmatic approach, another may interpret the rules to the letter basically...

The clue is if you’ve any doubt that what you’re saying may land you in trouble, you probably shouldn’t say it. Is it really that difficult for people to not be knobs?

On 08/01/2019 at 12:57, Loon plage said:

You seem to love a moan too don't you.

What if something like this happened then

Nigella and Tristram from Southville (via Islington) are in the Dolman with little Piers taking in their first "footie" match. They elect to go into the Dolman to take in the atmosphere rather than the family area Pato is two footed by an opposing Gallic player. A couple of fans in s82 nearby stand up and call the assailant a dirty French *** (which he is of course rather than the entire race). This though outrages the new "footie" fan who knows her apples being a civil rights lawyer so complains via text. She is particularly incensed  at the laissez faire attitude towards treating these neaderthals and escalates by name dropping (Marvin) and threats of legal action until she gets to Mr Storr. A terse conversation ensues and the villains are then promptly confronted. A spot of pushing and shoving follows with more industrial language flowing from both sides of the dispute. Barnaby from Clifton Wood hears this and it absolutely appalled so puts in a text. He too is infuriated at the club simply noting the complaint and escalates until those expressing dismay at the ejection of friends are also removed from the premises. Deano from BS4 sees what he considers to be some heavy handed treatment taking place by stewards during this incident and also texts. To the chagrin of the club, Deano is also a lawyer and knows his apples so he insists that action is taken against the steward who in his opinion was using excessive force which actually constituted a minor shove but resulted in a half pissed spectator falling over.

This all coming from a couple of fans calling an opposing player a *** in the heat of the moment. My point being, the club may not actually want to do anything, but someone determined enough can make sure that the club DOES act, whether it is actually in the best interests of the whole or not. I don't think anyone should have an issue with dealing with racist comments or homophobic comments because everyone understands that its the law. However, singling out football matches to take on people swearing, when it is tolerated from the primary school, the workplace and the media is plain stupid, and I do not consider myself a snowflake for feeling that way.

Why does he need to call him French? It’s implying there is something wrong with being french because you are using it as an insult - there is no need so just don’t say it ffs 

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12 hours ago, Redinthehead said:

Well we don’t know because it hasn’t happened. A nonsense strawman argument.

Nonsense? I doubt it. I'd hazard a guess their policy would be the same as any other club that has money tied up in a player. There is precedent. 

They'd only get rid of the player if he had no significant value. 

We all know that. 

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@JulieH

A quick question and sorry if it has been asked before.

Is there any difference between what the idiot said, and what the away fans shouted about being from wales?

Is xenophobia treated differently? Is it a case that no one complains about the “from wales” shouts that it isn’t investigate?

Racism should be eradicated but it seems the lines are blurred at times. I find it out how one is acceptable and the other isn’t, surely both are equally bad?

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25 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

@JulieH

A quick question and sorry if it has been asked before.

Is there any difference between what the idiot said, and what the away fans shouted about being from wales?

Is xenophobia treated differently? Is it a case that no one complains about the “from wales” shouts that it isn’t investigate?

Racism should be eradicated but it seems the lines are blurred at times. I find it out how one is acceptable and the other isn’t, surely both are equally bad?

This. 

I'm all for a bit of banter between the Welsh and English, but the law is the law, or is it? 

 

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1 hour ago, AshtonPark said:

@JulieH

A quick question and sorry if it has been asked before.

Is there any difference between what the idiot said, and what the away fans shouted about being from wales?

Is xenophobia treated differently? Is it a case that no one complains about the “from wales” shouts that it isn’t investigate?

Racism should be eradicated but it seems the lines are blurred at times. I find it out how one is acceptable and the other isn’t, surely both are equally bad?

@JulieH sorry typed it out on my phone and noticed some autocorrected wrong. It should read 

@JulieH

A quick question and sorry if it has been asked before.

Is there any difference between what the idiot said, and what the away fans shouted about being from wales?

Is xenophobia treated differently? Is it a case that no one complains about the “from wales” shouts that it isn’t investigated?

Racism should be eradicated but it seems the lines are blurred at times. I find it odd how one is acceptable and the other isn’t, surely both are equally bad. 

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3 hours ago, AshtonPark said:

@JulieH sorry typed it out on my phone and noticed some autocorrected wrong. It should read 

@JulieH

A quick question and sorry if it has been asked before.

Is there any difference between what the idiot said, and what the away fans shouted about being from wales?

Is xenophobia treated differently? Is it a case that no one complains about the “from wales” shouts that it isn’t investigated?

Racism should be eradicated but it seems the lines are blurred at times. I find it odd how one is acceptable and the other isn’t, surely both are equally bad. 

Good question. We are led by guidelines from crown Prosecution Service which I will give in full below, I think it answersvyour question:

1) any incident or crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice based on a persons race or perceived race 

or 

2) any incident or crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice based on a persons religion or perceived religion. 

 

So in a nutshell it must be towards race or religion as opposed to nationality 

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38 minutes ago, JulieH said:

Good question. We are led by guidelines from crown Prosecution Service which I will give in full below, I think it answersvyour question:

1) any incident or crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice based on a persons race or perceived race 

or 

2) any incident or crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice based on a persons religion or perceived religion. 

 

So in a nutshell it must be towards race or religion as opposed to nationality 

So abuse towards any given country (not race). ANY country? That's not my experience at AG (rightly so). 

Does kind of contradict what you've said. 

Wasn't the chap, recently banned and taken to court, referring to a country and not a race?

Confused.

 

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2 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

So abuse towards any given country (not race). ANY country? That's not my experience at AG (rightly so). 

Does kind of contradict what you've said. 

 

Rather than your continual dancing around the issue and creation of straw man arguments to detract, can you just answer this.

Should someone be allowed to say the word this man said in negative terms towards a set of fans in a football stadium?

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1 minute ago, Redinthehead said:

Rather than your continual dancing around the issue and creation of straw man arguments to detract, can you just answer this.

Should someone be allowed to say the word this man said in negative terms towards a set of fans in a football stadium?

Of course not. 

But the valid point raised is this - is it OK for abuse/wind ups /banter to be flung around in relation to home nations, but others are not OK? 

If you don't understand the point being made  - and the clarification being sought - then I can't spell it out any clearer. 

 

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The word in question has significantly different historic connotations to Anglo-Welsh abuse/banter.

Don't know if it is relevant to tests for a successful prosecution but definitely differences in context. Google "P*** bashing" then Google "Welsh bashing".

 Now I'm not saying racism is all one way, absolutely not but it could be one reason the 2 are treated differently in the Courts.

The only Welsh bashing? Wouldn't it be that ancient law about a crossbow in Chester (but only on Sundays)! :D

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20 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

So abuse towards any given country (not race). ANY country? That's not my experience at AG (rightly so). 

Does kind of contradict what you've said. 

Wasn't the chap, recently banned and taken to court, referring to a country and not a race?

Confused.

 

It doesn’t contradict the legislation

 

the word he used is perceived as a derogatory word against a persons race . 

Hence the successful prosecution and guilty plea .

read the article in the post, it quotes from a victim impact statement saying how the use of the word affected the victim and the family. 

 

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32 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

So abuse towards any given country (not race). ANY country? That's not my experience at AG (rightly so). 

Does kind of contradict what you've said. 

Wasn't the chap, recently banned and taken to court, referring to a country and not a race?

Confused.

 

Really? Racists shout that word at anyone with vaguely brown skin. They don’t usually worry about the particular sub continent country the person they’re abusing may or may not have ancestry in.  It’s a term of racist abuse, there’s not really a debate to be had about that.  

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40 minutes ago, JulieH said:

It doesn’t contradict the legislation

 

the word he used is perceived as a derogatory word against a persons race . 

Hence the successful prosecution and guilty plea .

read the article in the post, it quotes from a victim impact statement saying how the use of the word affected the victim and the family. 

 

Julie, from working in wales I found a lot to be xenophobic/racist of people from Bristol. 

You say mentioning countries, and he used the term that is deemed offensive.

Under the law at the moment, he if shouted 

You are all from Pakistan (country name, not the word he used)

and away fans 

You are all from Wales. 

Would they be dealt with the same or differently? 

Also, what if you were in an area of a high Eastern European population, and you said 

You are all from Poland , when they might not actually be a polish population is that an offence? 

Is it purely down to the perceived race of that nation? 

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18 minutes ago, TinMan's left peg said:

Really? Racists shout that word at anyone with vaguely brown skin. They don’t usually worry about the particular sub continent country the person they’re abusing may or may not have ancestry in.  It’s a term of racist abuse, there’s not really a debate to be had about that.  

This- put it better than I did.

Certainly not a simple issue though.

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4 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

Of course not. 

But the valid point raised is this - is it OK for abuse/wind ups /banter to be flung around in relation to home nations, but others are not OK? 

If you don't understand the point being made  - and the clarification being sought - then I can't spell it out any clearer. 

 

Swansea and Cardiff fans are in the main Welsh. The people generally subjected to the word that man used are not in the main from Pakistan. That’s even before you look at the historical use of the word.

The ‘clarification’ you are seeking is really not required.

 

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4 hours ago, AshtonPark said:

Julie, from working in wales I found a lot to be xenophobic/racist of people from Bristol. 

You say mentioning countries, and he used the term that is deemed offensive.

Under the law at the moment, he if shouted 

You are all from Pakistan (country name, not the word he used)

and away fans 

You are all from Wales. 

Would they be dealt with the same or differently? 

Also, what if you were in an area of a high Eastern European population, and you said 

You are all from Poland , when they might not actually be a polish population is that an offence? 

Is it purely down to the perceived race of that nation? 

It’s down to using a clearly racist word. Stop tying yourself in knots.

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On 01/04/2019 at 13:53, JulieH said:

It doesn’t contradict the legislation

 

the word he used is perceived as a derogatory word against a persons race . 

Hence the successful prosecution and guilty plea .

read the article in the post, it quotes from a victim impact statement saying how the use of the word affected the victim and the family. 

 

Comment removed. Easier to talk to a brick wall. 

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On 19/02/2019 at 18:30, Matt Parsons BCFCSLO said:

@CotswoldRed @Dollymarie

I have heard back from the Ashton Gate stadium team who have said that they are going to look at installing radar locks to the disabled concourse toilets. They will keep me posted when this will happen. 

Matt 

Appreciate you can't do much directly, but for the avoidance of deliberate procrastination on their part, an news on what's happening here, Matt? 

Had another argument yesterday with someone who felt it was OK to use the toilet and make my son wait. 

When I suggested I would report the person in question they informed me "do what you like, I don't care" 

We're dealing with neanderthals here mate, can we get a move on?

Surely someone has been assigned responsibility and has a delivery date for the next step. I'm sure they wouldn't mind sharing. Unless this is another Mark Kelly "we'll look into it?" 

@Matt Parsons BCFCSLO

 

On a related subject, I spoke to a disabled person yesterday whon was at the Sheffield United game. At half time they were enjoying a drink in the bar. They were approached by a steward who requested he left the bar as "disabled people aren't allowed in the bar area". 

I kid you not. You may ask what the reason was, but I'd argue the reason is utterly irrelevant. 

Unfortunately, the world is consumed with "racist". The agenda hasn't yet moved to the disabled which is a travesty. 

Ask yourself if "can you leave the bar please we don't don't allow [insert race] in this area" had occurred. 

This forum and the wider public would be up in arms. For this it won't, I'm sure. 

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Hi 

On 07/04/2019 at 08:49, CotswoldRed said:

Appreciate you can't do much directly, but for the avoidance of deliberate procrastination on their part, an news on what's happening here, Matt? 

Had another argument yesterday with someone who felt it was OK to use the toilet and make my son wait. 

When I suggested I would report the person in question they informed me "do what you like, I don't care" 

We're dealing with neanderthals here mate, can we get a move on?

Surely someone has been assigned responsibility and has a delivery date for the next step. I'm sure they wouldn't mind sharing. Unless this is another Mark Kelly "we'll look into it?" 

@Matt Parsons BCFCSLO

 

On a related subject, I spoke to a disabled person yesterday whon was at the Sheffield United game. At half time they were enjoying a drink in the bar. They were approached by a steward who requested he left the bar as "disabled people aren't allowed in the bar area". 

I kid you not. You may ask what the reason was, but I'd argue the reason is utterly irrelevant. 

Unfortunately, the world is consumed with "racist". The agenda hasn't yet moved to the disabled which is a travesty. 

Ask yourself if "can you leave the bar please we don't don't allow [insert race] in this area" had occurred. 

This forum and the wider public would be up in arms. For this it won't, I'm sure. 

Morning, 

I have sent your comments about the disabled toilets over to Ashton Gate. If you would like to send me an email I can also escalate that to the stadium manager. 

Im sorry to hear about the treatment one of our fans had at Bramall Lane. If you know who they are please ask them to get in touch with the details and I will pass onto Sheffield United as no fan should be treated like that. 

Matt

 

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On 07/04/2019 at 08:49, CotswoldRed said:

Appreciate you can't do much directly, but for the avoidance of deliberate procrastination on their part, an news on what's happening here, Matt? 

Had another argument yesterday with someone who felt it was OK to use the toilet and make my son wait. 

When I suggested I would report the person in question they informed me "do what you like, I don't care" 

We're dealing with neanderthals here mate, can we get a move on?

Surely someone has been assigned responsibility and has a delivery date for the next step. I'm sure they wouldn't mind sharing. Unless this is another Mark Kelly "we'll look into it?" 

@Matt Parsons BCFCSLO

 

On a related subject, I spoke to a disabled person yesterday whon was at the Sheffield United game. At half time they were enjoying a drink in the bar. They were approached by a steward who requested he left the bar as "disabled people aren't allowed in the bar area". 

I kid you not. You may ask what the reason was, but I'd argue the reason is utterly irrelevant. 

Unfortunately, the world is consumed with "racist". The agenda hasn't yet moved to the disabled which is a travesty. 

Ask yourself if "can you leave the bar please we don't don't allow [insert race] in this area" had occurred. 

This forum and the wider public would be up in arms. For this it won't, I'm sure. 

Obviously that is disgraceful, but for context what was the reason that "disabled people" aren't allowed in the bar area? I assume it was someone in a wheelchair and some silly health and safety reason, as I imagine it's difficult to identify every disabled person in a room and ask them to leave simply from looking at them!

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37 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Obviously that is disgraceful, but for context what was the reason that "disabled people" aren't allowed in the bar area? I assume it was someone in a wheelchair and some silly health and safety reason, as I imagine it's difficult to identify every disabled person in a room and ask them to leave simply from looking at them!

Something to do with being a fire risk.

If only businesses would (a) have a shred of common decency and (b) be familiar with the law this would help. 

I'm going to say no more about specifics in case the person concerned wishes to take legal action. I understand they are considering their options. 

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On 08/04/2019 at 10:11, Matt Parsons BCFCSLO said:

Hi 

Morning, 

I have sent your comments about the disabled toilets over to Ashton Gate. If you would like to send me an email I can also escalate that to the stadium manager. 

Im sorry to hear about the treatment one of our fans had at Bramall Lane. If you know who they are please ask them to get in touch with the details and I will pass onto Sheffield United as no fan should be treated like that. 

Matt

 

Hi @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO.  Thanks for offering to escalate on my behalf.

To be completely honest, I don't wish to waste any more of my time flagging the issue.  It's now around 3 years since I first raised this to Mark Kelly.  Anything else just invites further procrastination from those at the top. They really aren't interested.  Believe me - this isn't just me asking.

At the Reading game (unsurprisingly) I had to confront 2 more fans who'd made my son wait.  On the second occasion that individual (I believe) had left the toilet and floor covered in urine.  As I'm sure you can imagine, we no longer use the toilet facilities once we've closed the door.  My son has to urinate in a plastic bottle as the toilet is unclean and unsafe for use.  It's certainly unsafe for me to lift him.

What is infuriating is the club and it's fans are more interested in the price of eggs that they have the option not to buy.  It's rather pathetic.  You know and I know the club will have spent more time in the last 3 years talking about chocolate eggs than disabled fans.

I will be approaching the Bristol Post this week with my story.  I am only interested in the truth - I do not wish to sensationalise our case or anything of the sort.  However, the truth of the matter is the club don't wish to listen (as demonstrated by their inaction so far).  A headline such as "Club provides unclean and unsafe toilet facilities to disabled children" might get the ball rolling.  We'll see.

I'm giving up trying with BCFC for now - nobody listens.  We've also decided not to attend against Derby County - my son doesn't want to go.  We'll do something else.

 

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Pretty disgusting that with how great the stadium is,disabled supporters are being overlooked to this extent.Embarrassing for the club that you have to take your story to the papers but good luck Cotswold.Hope you get a result and that you and your son are back down the Gate soon.Someone,somewhere should be hanging their head in shame!

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