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Text to report anti-social behaviour at AG (Merged)


CyderInACan

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13 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

I look forward to your definitions as to what these terms mean. With racism, for example, normally an offence may only be occasioned where a person of one race or ethnic group makes evaluative comparison with another of a different race or ethnicity, usually proposing a position of superiority. However the PC illiterate these days often cry foul at the first adjectival utterance. It's why few bat an eyelid where members of the same race make derogatory and differential comments to each other or why they falsely cry foul when the adjective deployed is exactly that, a descriptor. Describing somebody as Welsh, Black or Latin isn't of itself racist so will you be training your stewards what it is they need to look out for, as strikes me few of them would be up for any level of meaningful,  intellectual debate? 

If I state, for example, that Jews are not God's chosen race (hint, he doesn't exist,) or that Zionist posture in the Middle East is the cause of eons of strife, would that make me anti-Semitic or rather somebody with an opinion? 

 

Glad you're making use of that thesaurus you got for Christmas!

If you can't work out pretty accurately what is and isn't appropriate to shout at a football match, or are really that desperate to get at close to the semi subjective racism/homophobic line as you can without crossing it to such a degree you get banned, I'd suggest maybe the problem lies with you, rather than our crazy "PC illiterate" society.

Should just put up a load of posters saying "don't be a ********". Job done.

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2 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Glad you're making use of that thesaurus you got for Christmas!

If you can't work out pretty accurately what is and isn't appropriate to shout at a football match, or are really that desperate to get at close to the semi subjective racism/homophobic line as you can without crossing it to such a degree you get banned, I'd suggest maybe the problem lies with you, rather than our crazy "PC illiterate" society.

Should just put up a load of posters saying "don't be a ********". Job done.

Haven't seen a thesaurus in years.

The point made is a serious one. People these days are apt to cry foul for reasons they incorrectly deduce as being offensive. Adjectives where I work are becoming an endangered species. So perchance somebody uses the phrase "you (adjective) waste of space," without implying that not all said grouping are likewise or establishing a value differential. Is that discriminatory or offensive? Not in my book, though run through half a dozen common adjectives and there's clearly a difference in how people believe they are supposed to react.

Your point about these matters being subjective is spot on. If one struggles to define the criteria what chance one may police it consistently?

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23 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Haven't seen a thesaurus in years.

The point made is a serious one. People these days are apt to cry foul for reasons they incorrectly deduce as being offensive. Adjectives where I work are becoming an endangered species. So perchance somebody uses the phrase "you (adjective) waste of space," without implying that not all said grouping are likewise or establishing a value differential. Is that discriminatory or offensive? Not in my book, though run through half a dozen common adjectives and there's clearly a difference in how people believe they are supposed to react.

Your point about these matters being subjective is spot on. If one struggles to define the criteria what chance one may police it consistently?

What kind of "group" adjectives are you wanting to put in that blank?

If you have to think twice before posting one of them - probably not ok. If you don't, it's probably alright. I can't say I've ever really had the desire to shout something - especially at a footballer - that I'm even slightly worried someone may think is racist or homophobic, but maybe that's just me.

e: and certainly not to a colleague at work

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3 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Haven't seen a thesaurus in years.

 The point made is a serious one. People these days are apt to cry foul for reasons they incorrectly deduce as being offensive. Adjectives where I work are becoming an endangered species. So perchance somebody uses the phrase "you (adjective) waste of space," without implying that not all said grouping are likewise or establishing a value differential. Is that discriminatory or offensive? Not in my book, though run through half a dozen common adjectives and there's clearly a difference in how people believe they are supposed to react.

Your point about these matters being subjective is spot on. If one struggles to define the criteria what chance one may police it consistently?

Yeah, what maybe innocuous to Person A maybe offensive or overboard to the other and in goes the text.

That's a problem- not sure I agree with all your points but it's a risk. That said it sounds like the club have a handle on it, so if they aren't directing stewards into the crowd for little things as per the example of @Harry earlier in the thread then seems like it could be alright...

Then there's another issue, can come down to variables that can literally change game by game. i.e. Which steward is in said position on the day, some may have a light touch approach, some maybe security personnel used to nightclubs/bars with little knowledge of or care for football crowd dynamics. Likewise the tolerance threshold of the safety officer or whoever will receive and act on the text- one may have a fairly relaxed/pragmatic approach, another may interpret the rules to the letter basically...

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3 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Haven't seen a thesaurus in years.

The point made is a serious one. People these days are apt to cry foul for reasons they incorrectly deduce as being offensive. Adjectives where I work are becoming an endangered species. So perchance somebody uses the phrase "you (adjective) waste of space," without implying that not all said grouping are likewise or establishing a value differential. Is that discriminatory or offensive? Not in my book, though run through half a dozen common adjectives and there's clearly a difference in how people believe they are supposed to react.

Your point about these matters being subjective is spot on. If one struggles to define the criteria what chance one may police it consistently?

This is a world wide society issue IMO - that cannot be solved at a football match, one way or the other.

Even if you what you say has some sense, it doesn’t mean we should all stop ‘policing’ racism because of the nuances of the subject.

The text service is an extension of the stewarding that has been going on for years. If something is reported, it will still need observing by the stewards first and most likely other witnesses around the area before people are unfairly ejected because someone was easily offended.

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1 hour ago, Badger08 said:

I'm hating this "modern football" rubbish.  Like "the good old days" were being racist, rioting, fighting each other and kicking police dogs! haha. 

I love the irony of posters saying the good old days of the East End etc, then get all snowflakey about this!! 

Anyone with half a brain cell can tell that it doesn't mean that every text will result in an ejection! Or even be acted upon.  But people just love a moan, eh.  

 

 

You seem to love a moan too don't you.

What if something like this happened then

Nigella and Tristram from Southville (via Islington) are in the Dolman with little Piers taking in their first "footie" match. They elect to go into the Dolman to take in the atmosphere rather than the family area Pato is two footed by an opposing Gallic player. A couple of fans in s82 nearby stand up and call the assailant a dirty French *** (which he is of course rather than the entire race). This though outrages the new "footie" fan who knows her apples being a civil rights lawyer so complains via text. She is particularly incensed  at the laissez faire attitude towards treating these neaderthals and escalates by name dropping (Marvin) and threats of legal action until she gets to Mr Storr. A terse conversation ensues and the villains are then promptly confronted. A spot of pushing and shoving follows with more industrial language flowing from both sides of the dispute. Barnaby from Clifton Wood hears this and it absolutely appalled so puts in a text. He too is infuriated at the club simply noting the complaint and escalates until those expressing dismay at the ejection of friends are also removed from the premises. Deano from BS4 sees what he considers to be some heavy handed treatment taking place by stewards during this incident and also texts. To the chagrin of the club, Deano is also a lawyer and knows his apples so he insists that action is taken against the steward who in his opinion was using excessive force which actually constituted a minor shove but resulted in a half pissed spectator falling over.

This all coming from a couple of fans calling an opposing player a *** in the heat of the moment. My point being, the club may not actually want to do anything, but someone determined enough can make sure that the club DOES act, whether it is actually in the best interests of the whole or not. I don't think anyone should have an issue with dealing with racist comments or homophobic comments because everyone understands that its the law. However, singling out football matches to take on people swearing, when it is tolerated from the primary school, the workplace and the media is plain stupid, and I do not consider myself a snowflake for feeling that way.

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It really is a thin end of the wedge in a way.

I understand a case for but you will have all sorts of fairly pointless stuff texted in, such as some of the examples above.

Things that are technically illegal but no more than a minor inconvenience. Yet I bet you would see some of the following- and I don't condone it as it isn't technically legal or in keeping with ground regs...but anyway invariably there will be some person (more understandable in the case of the 2nd) who thinks this is a good way forward.

  • "I see someone has snuck their pint into the stand! Report, text!" Steward can discreetly deal with that- and yet reporting it by text and sending up multiple stewards can cause more issues than it solves, cause crowd unrest etc.
  • "I see a puff of smoke from a crafty vaper. Yes- I must report it!" Same as above.

Probably well intentioned and an element of having to be seen to do something but likely to cause needless aggro too.

@Badger08 Did you read the story by @Harry an over keen steward took exception apparently to him shouting swearing about Hunt was it and told him he was watching him? If it was texted in, that could have escalated needlessly.

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19 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

 

Supporters who wear novelty hats at Xmas;

 

Brighton PO Final under Wilson in Cardiff. I'm 18 and 5ft. I've had a few shandies and I bought a fog horn thing (that got confiscated) and a jester hat from one of the traders before we went in.

Now bear in mind, I'm vertically challenged (still am). So I'm sat down and miffed because me horn is gone. But my hat is on with all the bells dangling. I'm having a sing song and living my best life.

Halfway through the 1st half, some old nobber behind me asks me to take my hat off because he can't see over the top. I'm sat down and like I've said already, pint sized. So he's obviously just jealous of my superior hat. I begrudgingly take it off but tell him if he stands up, its going back on.

 

Still hurts now and I totally blame that man. My hat was putting Leon Knight off his game.

 

If you're on here, I hope you stepped on an upturned plug when you got into bed that night.

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11 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

Why would that escalate things even more? If the steward came over and said, can you please keep your swearing down we've had some complaints about your language, I don't understand why anyone would get upset about it and cause unrest.   

If the steward had already clocked him for his behavior then he's already been clocked. Personally, I couldn't care less.  I swear and shout at football, I love it, but  Nobody will use the bloody text system anyway, and its available to use now anyway, has been for ages, so like I keep saying, people are getting upset about nothing.  

How many people on here have been thrown out of the group due to a text?  And if you have, you probably deserved it. 

 

How about the relatively trivial examples such as the odd vape clocked and a sneaked in pint texted in? Not saying it couldn't be dealt with but if you send multiple stewards up as can happen, unrest and arguments etc for no real reason. The unrest doesn't necessarily come from a discreet word or side of it but from somebody in the control room for example directing several stewards into the crowd and it spiralling into big arguments etc. Can happen, has happened.

My point on that one is different stewards may interpret the rules differently. The incident he described, if it was as described, didn't merit an intervention at all IMO. That's the thing though- Steward A maybe a football fan themselves with match going experience and take a fairly relaxed approach to these things (especially if it is an area such as the Singing Section as it appears it was). Steward B maybe an ex Bouncer, or possibly other form of security say and wade in because they are used to being in charge, obedience- when the dynamics of a football crowd ground differ significantly to a nightclub or similar. A) and B) may have a vastly different interpretation of the rules and tolerance levels- now roll it out to 20k as a previous poster said, all with different views on what is acceptable and it could get difficult.

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2 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

Then literally, my advice would be, don't sneak pints into the ground and don't vape.  

Whilst I don't feel comfortable about the text thing, this is the exact answer.

The two situations mentioned shouldn't be treated in an OTT manner, just a polite word to the person highlighted.

In my view the only time it should be used is if there is real excessive racist abuse, most other things in my eyes are part and parcel of the banter around football

PS Are vapes banned from the ground, a lad in front of me puffs away on some smelly fruit vape constantly during the game

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32 minutes ago, phantom said:

Whilst I don't feel comfortable about the text thing, this is the exact answer.

The two situations mentioned shouldn't be treated in an OTT manner, just a polite word to the person highlighted.

In my view the only time it should be used is if there is real excessive racist abuse, most other things in my eyes are part and parcel of the banter around football

PS Are vapes banned from the ground, a lad in front of me puffs away on some smelly fruit vape constantly during the game

Agree with all this ( in no way would I text over a vape or clocking someone with a beer). Polite word to person highlighted is the way to go.

Regards Vapes, they are I think banned from the interior of the ground ie the stand and concourse etc due to law on smoking in public places, but allowed in the smoking area. Now you have a text number you know what to do. ?

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree with all this ( in no way would I text over a vape or clocking someone with a beer). Polite word to person highlighted is the way to go.

Regards Vapes, they are I think banned from the interior of the ground ie the stand and concourse etc due to law on smoking in public places, but allowed in the smoking area. Now you have a text number you know what to do. ?

Smoking and vaping are 2 entirely different things of course, and vaping is not banned by law in football grounds, or pubs for that matter.

E Cigarettes are not included in the Health Act 2006, which means they aren't covered in the smoking ban implemented in 2007.

Clubs have chosen to ban vaping through laziness, as have many pubs, though thankfully not all. Apparently the reason for them  including the harmless vaping in the ban is because they can't tell the difference between the 2 from a distance (even though a lit cigarette gives off a constant trail of smoke and vaping will not give off it's harmless cloud of moisture unless being utilised at that moment) 

The government have even recently sought to remind publicans that vaping in pubs is not against any law, although of course chains like Wetherspoons have chosen to disallow it.

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6 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Smoking and vaping are 2 entirely different things of course, and vaping is not banned by law in football grounds, or pubs for that matter.

E Cigarettes are not included in the Health Act 2006, which means they aren't covered in the smoking ban implemented in 2007.

Clubs have chosen to ban vaping through laziness, as have many pubs, though thankfully not all. Apparently the reason for them  including the harmless vaping in the ban is because they can't tell the difference between the 2 from a distance (even though a lit cigarette gives off a constant trail of smoke and vaping will not give off it's harmless cloud of moisture unless being utilised at that moment) 

The government have even recently sought to remind publicans that vaping in pubs is not against any law, although of course chains like Wetherspoons have chosen to disallow it.

Oh yeah, they aren't the same for sure.

Did E-Cigarettes even exist mainly in 2006? Not being a smoker, I don't know.

To check, they aren't outright banned- banned in the stadium bowl yes, i.e. the areas I outlined but not banned in smoking areas, obviously.

My main point is though, it isn't really something to text about is it? I really couldn't be bothered if someone around me is vaping in shock horror the stand or even had snuck in a crafty pint from the concourse.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Oh yeah, they aren't the same for sure.

Did E-Cigarettes even exist mainly in 2006? Not being a smoker, I don't know.

To check, they aren't outright banned- banned in the stadium bowl yes, i.e. the areas I outlined but not banned in smoking areas, obviously.

My main point is though, it isn't really something to text about is it? I really couldn't be bothered if someone around me is vaping in shock horror the stand or even had snuck in a crafty pint from the concourse.

and ion a practical basis , ,

 ......Bloody hard to Do , whilst you have a pint in one hand , and a cigarette in the other. !!

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7 hours ago, Septic Peg said:

I'm sat down and miffed because me horn is gone

I fully understand and you have my utmost sympathy (my doctor informs it'll eventually recover) but wear the hat again and I'm texting.......

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7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How about the relatively trivial examples such as the odd vape clocked and a sneaked in pint texted in? Not saying it couldn't be dealt with but if you send multiple stewards up as can happen, unrest and arguments etc for no real reason. The unrest doesn't necessarily come from a discreet word or side of it but from somebody in the control room for example directing several stewards into the crowd and it spiralling into big arguments etc. Can happen, has happened.

My point on that one is different stewards may interpret the rules differently. The incident he described, if it was as described, didn't merit an intervention at all IMO. That's the thing though- Steward A maybe a football fan themselves with match going experience and take a fairly relaxed approach to these things (especially if it is an area such as the Singing Section as it appears it was). Steward B maybe an ex Bouncer, or possibly other form of security say and wade in because they are used to being in charge, obedience- when the dynamics of a football crowd ground differ significantly to a nightclub or similar. A) and B) may have a vastly different interpretation of the rules and tolerance levels- now roll it out to 20k as a previous poster said, all with different views on what is acceptable and it could get difficult.

Sounds like we are going to need VAR for interpretations!?

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3 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Couple of weeks and home games on from this - 

Has it been bedlam yet?

Anyone been thrown out for swearing, or waving a flag??

There was one time last night when a steward came up to the top of the SS (nearly killed the poor old bird mind!) to take some beer off a group of blokes and girls. I did wonder at the time if someone had dobbed them in or whether they`d just been picked up on CCTV since they weren`t exactly being discreet about it.

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9 minutes ago, Club and Country said:

Maybe I didn’t word this right,

the 4 people that left were people that were mortified by the racial abuse

 

edit* struggled to word this!

Sickening that this behaviour still goes on. Hopefully the club can try and contact these people and try and get them to come back somehow. 

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12 minutes ago, Club and Country said:

Maybe I didn’t word this right,

the 4 people that left were people that were mortified by the racial abuse 

 

edit* struggled to word this!

Racist tosser probably sees nothing wrong with what he did, hopefully he'll get what's coming to him & never be able to set foot inside AG again. At least some action is/has been taken, but it of little comfort for the people that felt compelled to leave. No-one should feel unwelcome at football because of the colour of their skin their nationality or ethnic origin.

If you could identify where these people were sat to @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO I'm sure he would want to contact them & offer an apology that this happened (not that this is anyones fault but the racist) and refund their ticket money and out of pocket travelling expenses.

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