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Between heaven and hell

Dale Vince Statement about Bolton. (Merged)

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From Monday morning, Christian Doidge is back with FGR.  We've taken the decision to recall him after his loan agreement expired last week amid continual contractual breaches by Bolton Wanderers.

It became clear to us that Bolton entered into a contract to loan and then buy Christian last August without the means to honour it, and perhaps the intention to do so as well. They haven't even paid his wages for the last four months (we have). 

It's not just FGR that have been let down badly by Bolton, but Christian too. 

Bolton's Chairman, Ken Anderson, made a lot of promises on the last day of the transfer window, both to Christian and FGR, and has kept none of them.  This is all his work and from talking to Ken he feels immune from the consequences - but some of these promises are written in legally binding contracts, and we'll be pursuing them.

When the dust settles, we'll talk to the EFL about how they regulate clubs like Bolton.  They already regulate the club to a degree, controlling all TV monies to make sure that football debts get paid. Hard not to wonder whether the league could also have a role in approving the terms of any contracts entered into - to make sure that they are actually within the means of the club.  We had no way to know, but the EFL should have the inside view on that. 

And finally (for now...) - Disappointing as it is to see this go pear shaped, both for FGR and Christian, I'm also excited by the prospect of the second half of the season with Christian back with us.  I'm sure all FGR fans everywhere will join me in welcoming him back 😃

How much longer can they survive?

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If Bolton can't even afford to pay an FGR loanee, they really must be in the shite.  More money problems ahoy for them...

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Taken from Forest Greens owners Facebook page. I heard stories that Bolton were in trouble, but this shows they are even mugging off league 2 sides. Club in crisis ahead of their trip to the gate on Saturday?

 

From Monday morning, Christian Doidge is back with FGR.  We've taken the decision to recall him after his loan agreement expired last week amid continual contractual breaches by Bolton Wanderers.

It became clear to us that Bolton entered into a contract to loan and then buy Christian last August without the means to honour it, and perhaps the intention to do so as well. They haven't even paid his wages for the last four months (we have). 

It's not just FGR that have been let down badly by Bolton, but Christian too. 

Bolton's Chairman, Ken Anderson, made a lot of promises on the last day of the transfer window, both to Christian and FGR, and has kept none of them.  This is all his work and from talking to Ken he feels immune from the consequences - but some of these promises are written in legally binding contracts, and we'll be pursuing them.

When the dust settles, we'll talk to the EFL about how they regulate clubs like Bolton.  They already regulate the club to a degree, controlling all TV monies to make sure that football debts get paid. Hard not to wonder whether the league could also have a role in approving the terms of any contracts entered into - to make sure that they are actually within the means of the club.  We had no way to know, but the EFL should have the inside view on that. 

And finally (for now...) - Disappointing as it is to see this go pear shaped, both for FGR and Christian, I'm also excited by the prospect of the second half of the season with Christian back with us.  I'm sure all FGR fans everywhere will join me in welcoming him back 😃

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Just saw this too. Think Bolton not paying players has happened at least twice before in the last season or so. Surely no one will touch them with a barge pole soon. Looks like word has got round.

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7 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

How was he actually doing at Bolton?

Wiki says 1 goal in 17 appearances

My thoughts on this are exactly as in the below which was discussed when Bolton’s potential admin came up last year. Dale Vince can be a touch holier than thou, but on this he has Bolton absolutely bang to rights 

1AF95067-8FF4-4A0C-9AD3-2A0552A1DCFD.png

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This is where the EFL must act.  There’s one club, FGR who will have made plans based on this (albeit not all of the £1m was a Fee, sone if it based on appearances), but even £250k and Doidge’s wages is a lot to a League 2 club.

Then you have Bolton, prestigious club historically, who have someone in charge who is taking £525k consultancy fee for him and his son out of the club.  It’s not like warning signs haven’t been there!

Then you gave the EFL....has Anderson passed their fit and proper persons test.  Assume so, so they need to take some responsibility too.

Bolton should be under immediate embargo, if not already.  Shame their FA Cup win earnings are from the FA, not from EFL.

And I haven’t mentioned Doidge.  Gone there in good faith, bought a house too.

Effin’ mess.

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(From their local paper)

The club is now under an embargo that prevents loan pair Christian Doidge and Remi Matthews from completing permanent moves to Bolton, while Gary O’Neil – whose short-term contract has expired – is being prevented from re-registering [...] Because of the debt to football creditors, the club is now unable to bring in new faces until the debt is paid [...] The Bolton News also understands the Bolton Whites Hotel has been issued with a winding-up petition by HMRC and the club shop is to have stock removed by suppliers Euro Sport due to outstanding debts."

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6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

(From their local paper)

The club is now under an embargo that prevents loan pair Christian Doidge and Remi Matthews from completing permanent moves to Bolton, while Gary O’Neil – whose short-term contract has expired – is being prevented from re-registering [...] Because of the debt to football creditors, the club is now unable to bring in new faces until the debt is paid [...] The Bolton News also understands the Bolton Whites Hotel has been issued with a winding-up petition by HMRC and the club shop is to have stock removed by suppliers Euro Sport due to outstanding debts."

It does make you wonder if they will last to the end of the season.

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Writings been on the wall for Bolton for a few years now, and you really need to ask how many times are they going to be able to miss payments to players before someone steps in!?

Nobody in their right minds will do business with them now, and as a player why would you want to go there? 

Feel for FGR, the money that was coming to them will have seriously buggered up their plans for January.

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8 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

(From their local paper)

The club is now under an embargo that prevents loan pair Christian Doidge and Remi Matthews from completing permanent moves to Bolton, while Gary O’Neil – whose short-term contract has expired – is being prevented from re-registering [...] Because of the debt to football creditors, the club is now unable to bring in new faces until the debt is paid [...] The Bolton News also understands the Bolton Whites Hotel has been issued with a winding-up petition by HMRC and the club shop is to have stock removed by suppliers Euro Sport due to outstanding debts."

 

1 minute ago, Between heaven and hell said:

It does make you wonder if they will last to the end of the season.

This is going to end up as more than just admin. They`ll go bust I think.

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Bolton put out a statement pre Christmas saying they’d paid all outstanding salaries on 14 December...it seems that was just a temporary situation....a real shame that a club so entrenched in English football history seems to be struggling so much...

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Do they still own their ground or could this be a Coventry situation? Like Portsmouth, Coventry and Brighton they have enough history and support to survive and rebuild eventually I assume. Or as effectively a suburb of Manchester, will their history and core support not be enought to find an investment plan to save them. The other clubs I quoted are one team towns. it is difficult to come back from bankruptcy to the size of club they were, in a multi club metropolitan area, especially when most of the youngsters will support other local teams as massive as Man City and Man Utd.

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Seems like there were two other loanees promised permanent deals who have now returned to their clubs.

Basket club and has been for quite some time.

 

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Just had a quick look at the Bolton forum.

Heartbreaking to read, fans seem to have accepted that they are in significant trouble and there is little they can do.

They seem pleased that Dale Vince has said what he has done, as it sounds like what a number of them have suspected but been unable to voice.

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If for arguments sake, the higher earners were to do an "AG8", would they be able to survive by promoting their youngsters? Or have they gotten to such a point where they cant even afford to pay them?

Surely the players would prefer to walk away from their contracts and sign with someone else who will pay them? Mind you if they've missed payments, surely thats a breach of contract as well, which renders the agreement null and void, meaning the players affected could just walk anyway?

I think if they can end up playing in the same league as Portsmouth, who were in a similar position a while ago, then they will have done well... 

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2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Just had a quick look at the Bolton forum.

Heartbreaking to read, fans seem to have accepted that they are in significant trouble and there is little they can do.

They seem pleased that Dale Vince has said what he has done, as it sounds like what a number of them have suspected but been unable to voice.

I know when a similar thing was happening to my local side Chester a few years ago, the fans got to the point where they just wanted the end to come quickly so that they could get on with starting again from scratch. Not sure Bolton are quite at that stage yet but it's not looking good.

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Bolton Wanderers is too big a club and too big a part of the football history to be allowed to die. For football's sake, i really, really hope they get through.

For the fans, I hope things work out. Bad news for footy in general

 

Edited by AppyDAZE
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I remember reading a while ago that Bolton were in the premier league for 11 years, and in only one of those years did they make a profit.

If you can't make money in the prem then when are you going to do so?

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Let’s make an offer of 3 quid for Sami Ameobi.  At that money must be worth a punt 😄

always thought he was a good player and he looked more than useful against us in particular last season.  Let’s get him and  then not pay them.  Give them some of their own back.

Feel sorry for Bolton fans, club real tradition and history. Bit like the Titanic 

Edited by DT The Optimist
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The only thing that concerns me is the points loss (or gains) if they go under. The basket case has gone on wAy to long with the poor old Notlob bollox. The supporters will be far happier doing an Aldershot, Newport, Accrington, Wimbledon Etc rather than this constant shit that most have no time for. Particularly their creditors!!

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2 hours ago, Never to the dark side said:

When we beat them on Saturday,

if they go into admin before the end of the season,

do the points get taken away?

The only points affected would be Boltons, even then it depends when they go into Admin. As long as they finish the season any points won from them should be ok.If they can't finish the season , completely disappear then points may be forfeit . I would be amazed if the League didn't step in to help them complete the season now it's started. 

Not sure of the cut off, but if the Admin is done early any points deducted from Bolton would be this year. If they leave it late, they can be deducted from next year, supposing they can start that season. 

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Whilst I have sympathies with Bolton fans. It’s hard to have any for the club. When you’re chairman conducts business like that. Poor to say the least how they have treated people. Bye Bye Bolton 

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It could galvanize them as a club, we'll have to be prepared for a backs against the wall, gutsy display from them on Saturday.

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9 hours ago, Taz said:

If for arguments sake, the higher earners were to do an "AG8", would they be able to survive by promoting their youngsters? Or have they gotten to such a point where they cant even afford to pay them?

Surely the players would prefer to walk away from their contracts and sign with someone else who will pay them? Mind you if they've missed payments, surely thats a breach of contract as well, which renders the agreement null and void, meaning the players affected could just walk anyway?

I think if they can end up playing in the same league as Portsmouth, who were in a similar position a while ago, then they will have done well... 

Surely that is only ok if they can find another job? I doubt many of the players are hitting their overdraft each month so are probably ok with being hit with the wages as they have a club. 

They could walk out of Bolton and be without a club for ages with no pay at all. 

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9 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

Bolton Wanderers is too big a club and too big a part of the football history to be allowed to die. For football's sake, i really, really hope they get through.

For the fans, I hope things work out. Bad news for footy in general

 

Bad news indeed but until something is done to bring football back to some kind of normality this kind of thing is going to become a regular occurrence. 

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2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

The only thing that concerns me is the points loss (or gains) if they go under. The basket case has gone on wAy to long with the poor old Notlob bollox. The supporters will be far happier doing an Aldershot, Newport, Accrington, Wimbledon Etc rather than this constant shit that most have no time for. Particularly their creditors!!

Not sure the people employed by the club would be happier, obviously assuming they will carry on being paid.

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I see a player from Norwich has also been stitched up. Apparently his GF had quit her job and moved to Bolton too as they promised deal would be made permanent in January back in August.

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12 hours ago, Between heaven and hell said:

From Monday morning, Christian Doidge is back with FGR.  We've taken the decision to recall him after his loan agreement expired last week amid continual contractual breaches by Bolton Wanderers.

It became clear to us that Bolton entered into a contract to loan and then buy Christian last August without the means to honour it, and perhaps the intention to do so as well. They haven't even paid his wages for the last four months (we have). 

It's not just FGR that have been let down badly by Bolton, but Christian too. 

Bolton's Chairman, Ken Anderson, made a lot of promises on the last day of the transfer window, both to Christian and FGR, and has kept none of them.  This is all his work and from talking to Ken he feels immune from the consequences - but some of these promises are written in legally binding contracts, and we'll be pursuing them.

When the dust settles, we'll talk to the EFL about how they regulate clubs like Bolton.  They already regulate the club to a degree, controlling all TV monies to make sure that football debts get paid. Hard not to wonder whether the league could also have a role in approving the terms of any contracts entered into - to make sure that they are actually within the means of the club.  We had no way to know, but the EFL should have the inside view on that. 

And finally (for now...) - Disappointing as it is to see this go pear shaped, both for FGR and Christian, I'm also excited by the prospect of the second half of the season with Christian back with us.  I'm sure all FGR fans everywhere will join me in welcoming him back 😃

How much longer can they survive?

**** Bolton. I remember when their chairman tried to ring fence the Premier League.

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10 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

Bolton Wanderers is too big a club and too big a part of the football history to be allowed to die. For football's sake, i really, really hope they get through.

For the fans, I hope things work out. Bad news for footy in general

 

With respect, what does size and history have to do with it ?

They should conduct themselves like anyone else without special favours just because Nat Lofthouse played for them in the 1950's.

No doubt the majority of their fans wanted a ring fenced premier league when Gartside was their shithouse chairman and they were getting into Europe.

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Eventually, the FA, football league and society in general is going to have to let one of these crisis clubs fold and disappear and use the crisis to sort this kind of thing out. Teams like Bolton (and Birmingham who look like they're heading this way- again) shouldn't have been allowed to sign players, the league should have taken control of contracts, sold their assets to balance the books and made them play out the season with kids and whoever they could get to play for £500 a week. Given the situation that Bolton are in now, they should be allowed to go bust and ejected from the league. It's harsh on the fans, but we can't keep going round in these circles. Football is not sustainable in it's current form and something needs to change

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What a nightmare for FGR they’ve basically loaned out their best player for half a season for nothing and even paid his wages. They’re doing well in but league still but the could’ve been sitting pretty in the automatic promotion places if this didn’t happen. And like others have said what a nightmare for the player who was obviously expecting a big pay rise to sign for a championship club but has only been getting his league 2 wages.

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As this sorry episode shows the financial problems of football are not due to players, managers, agents or supporters but lie squarely with chairmen/owners. Why is it that s**t hot businessmen who have made a fortune through wise business and investment decisions become the sort of plonker that makes Trigger look like Einstein when they take over a football club. 

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6 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

As this sorry episode shows the financial problems of football are not due to players, managers, agents or supporters but lie squarely with chairmen/owners. Why is it that s**t hot businessmen who have made a fortune through wise business and investment decisions become the sort of plonker that makes Trigger look like Einstein when they take over a football club. 

Because its not their money they are playing with. There are no consequences for them personally. 

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Christian Doidge will be disappointed to hear that his first match back at FGR has been postponed.

The fans have eaten the pitch 

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8 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

As this sorry episode shows the financial problems of football are not due to players, managers, agents or supporters but lie squarely with chairmen/owners. Why is it that s**t hot businessmen who have made a fortune through wise business and investment decisions become the sort of plonker that makes Trigger look like Einstein when they take over a football club. 

Fully understand your sentiments Royston, but still think players and agents, particularly in the PL are doing their bit to ruin the game also. 

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36 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

Eventually, the FA, football league and society in general is going to have to let one of these crisis clubs fold and disappear and use the crisis to sort this kind of thing out. Teams like Bolton (and Birmingham who look like they're heading this way- again) shouldn't have been allowed to sign players, the league should have taken control of contracts, sold their assets to balance the books and made them play out the season with kids and whoever they could get to play for £500 a week. Given the situation that Bolton are in now, they should be allowed to go bust and ejected from the league. It's harsh on the fans, but we can't keep going round in these circles. Football is not sustainable in it's current form and something needs to change

This. If (heaven forbid) this ever happened to us and we got folded and re-formed in a non league with a team of just Bristolians, I would support them. I mean, just look at Newport County. 

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13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This is where the EFL must act.  There’s one club, FGR who will have made plans based on this (albeit not all of the £1m was a Fee, sone if it based on appearances), but even £250k and Doidge’s wages is a lot to a League 2 club.

Then you have Bolton, prestigious club historically, who have someone in charge who is taking £525k consultancy fee for him and his son out of the club.  It’s not like warning signs haven’t been there!

Then you gave the EFL....has Anderson passed their fit and proper persons test.  Assume so, so they need to take some responsibility too.

Bolton should be under immediate embargo, if not already.  Shame their FA Cup win earnings are from the FA, not from EFL.

And I haven’t mentioned Doidge.  Gone there in good faith, bought a house too.

Effin’ mess.

From what I've seen of Doidge, he could do a job for us. Holds it up well, big, strong, eye for goal. Fam would love playing off somebody rather than be the focus + Cheap. Worth a punt I'd say.

 

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