Lrrr Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, simon uk said: Yes but fergusons list of trophies means he actually achieved huge success, and had to rebuild his team on numerous occasions over 20 odd years. Lj has never won anything and anyone trusting him and ashton with say a 20 million transfer budget would be mad, based on what hes signed in the past. Any reason for plucking £20m out the air? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, simon uk said: Yes but fergusons list of trophies means he actually achieved huge success, and had to rebuild his team on numerous occasions over 20 odd years. Lj has never won anything and anyone trusting him and ashton with say a 20 million transfer budget would be mad, based on what hes signed in the past. It took Fergie 4 years to win his first trophy and 7 years to win his first title........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon uk Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, hodge said: Any reason for plucking £20m out the air? No, could be any figure, roughly half what hes spent since hes been here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon uk Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, RedRaw said: It took Fergie 4 years to win his first trophy and 7 years to win his first title........ Great, looks like the next 25 years will see us winning numerous league titles and champions leagues then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, simon uk said: Yes but fergusons list of trophies means he actually achieved huge success, and had to rebuild his team on numerous occasions over 20 odd years. Lj has never won anything and anyone trusting him and ashton with say a 20 million transfer budget would be mad, based on what hes signed in the past. 3 minutes ago, simon uk said: Great, looks like the next 25 years will see us winning numerous league titles and champions leagues then Man Utd were already a top division side with the history, status and finances to grow into one of the worlds greatest clubs and Fergie was given time to achieve this. You can not compare the two scenarios and as much as I am not a particular LJ fan, a simple promotion to the Premier League with subsequent stability on his CV would be fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon uk Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, RedRaw said: Man Utd were already a top division side with the history, status and finances to grow into one of the worlds greatest clubs and Fergie was given time to achieve this. You can not compare the two scenarios and as much as I am not a particular LJ fan, a simple promotion to the Premier League with subsequent stability on his CV would be fine with me. Do you have much faith in lj and ma getting us promoted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 28 minutes ago, simon uk said: Yes but fergusons list of trophies means he actually achieved huge success, and had to rebuild his team on numerous occasions over 20 odd years. Lj has never won anything and anyone trusting him and ashton with say a 20 million transfer budget would be mad, based on what hes signed in the past. I agree that Ferguson won many trophies and is an objectively better manager than Johnson. That is why I used him as an example to show that every manager, whether they are a veteran of 25 years with a trophy cabinet full to bursting, or a bloke in his 30's who is yet to win a competition, they all sign duffers. My point is that if a manager like Ferguson (or any other highly successful manager you'd care to mention) can preside over the signature of a player like Bebe, then it is unfair to use the "he's signed this crap player and that crap player" as a criticism of Johnson. In particular as Johnson has far less experience than Ferguson. Unless you can show that Johnson has signed a higher number of "failed" players than the "average" manager has, your point is irrelevant. @Mr Popodopolous Yep Veron was objectively a quality player and I know he had success elsewhere. Point stands thought that at United he didn't work out. I could say the same about Diony - who scored and is scoring in France, or Engvall who scored in Sweden. Happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcredandwhite Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 14 minutes ago, simon uk said: Do you have much faith in lj and ma getting us promoted? Personally, compared to the dross setups we have endured in the 2nd tier since, well, since I can remember - apart from Dicks and possibly GJ, yes! New stadium, young squad, young manager, stable setup, 5 points off the playoffs and 11 off automatic - it’s exciting times !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 33 minutes ago, hodge said: Any reason for plucking £20m out the air? Not far from the truth, this season and last they've spent 21m (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bristol-city/transfers/verein/698/plus/0?saison_id=2018&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=) . Of course made money back with sales but still given the funds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, Sturny said: Not far from the truth, this season and last they've spent 21m (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bristol-city/transfers/verein/698/plus/0?saison_id=2018&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=) . Of course made money back with sales but still given the funds My point was a budget without time frame is pointless, could be 1 window, could be a few seasons. Just on the point of Rowett as he's gone, he's spent £50m this summer with a better squad and much bigger wage budget to have them a few places below us. Yes parachute payments but perhaps a sign LJ hasn't done so badly with the funds he has and more a case of fan perspective of how much it is hasn't quite caught up with how fast transfer fees are evolving, like people being surprised at Walsh's £1m fee last January, £1m is no longer a big fee and is now what you pay for someone who could make it rather than someone who will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allwaysred Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 17 hours ago, Allwaysred said: Casey Palmer and Joe Williams have both been rumoured both can play that 10 role.... both direct and stronger than pato. I do think if Da Silva has signed it's only time before LK goes. Looks like Casey Palmer is in..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 17 hours ago, Allwaysred said: Casey Palmer and Joe Williams have both been rumoured both can play that 10 role.... both direct and stronger than pato. I do think if Da Silva has signed it's only time before LK goes. Doubt Dasilva would be signed permanently till the summer, unless Lloyd is sold first. Confirming Jay as a permanent transfer before selling Lloyd would send a message to other clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 8, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, hodge said: Doubt Dasilva would be signed permanently till the summer, unless Lloyd is sold first. Confirming Jay as a permanent transfer before selling Lloyd would send a message to other clubs. Agree, there is no reason to do the deal now if we already have the pre-contract etc ready for the summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, phantom said: Agree, there is no reason to do the deal now if we already have the pre-contract etc ready for the summer We have the fee pre-agreed but would still need to negotiate with Jay, but there's no reason that something in principle couldn't be agreed from Feb to end of season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 8, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, hodge said: We have the fee pre-agreed but would still need to negotiate with Jay, but there's no reason that something in principle couldn't be agreed from Feb to end of season. Ahh I misunderstood, I thought both were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, phantom said: Ahh I misunderstood, I thought both were Well that's the common version, we may have already talked to Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, simon uk said: You seem to have forgotten engvall, hegeler, djuric, taylor, eisa, moore, geifer, kent and probably a few more that ive consigned to the dark parts of my mind that hopefully wont be visited anytime soon. Moore who was training with the first team squad all pre-season and getting singled out for praise. Moore who looked set to be starting the season as a member of our squad before getting injured, and then was given a new deal before going on loan when we brought Kalas in. That Moore? Yeah, an abject failure that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InCyder Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, simon uk said: Yes but fergusons list of trophies means he actually achieved huge success, and had to rebuild his team on numerous occasions over 20 odd years. Lj has never won anything and anyone trusting him and ashton with say a 20 million transfer budget would be mad, based on what hes signed in the past. To be fair, a large number of the duff signings have been loans which are always going to be a risk. When you look at the signings we've actually paid a fee for under LJ, it's pretty decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, simon uk said: Do you have much faith in lj and ma getting us promoted? Given some time yes......why not? It might even happy this season. Keep this run going and 2/3 quality signings then who knows. Pretty much everything else is in place so the final fundamental ingredients are getting it right in the squad and on the pitch. Up to now, I have to some extent felt like you in that LJ is not up to the job and that a lot of money has been wasted. However, it is clear SL's long term plan (5 pillars et al) is now starting to bear fruit.....selling assets for big money (Bryan, Reid etc), buying reasonably priced young players that improve the squad and have a potential sell on value (Webster, Brownhill, O'dowda etc), bringing players through the academy into the first team (Kelly, O'Leary, Morrell, Vyner, Moore etc) and what appears to be a big batch of academy prospects coming through in the next year or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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