... Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 11 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Loyalty doesn’t really exist in the employment market anymore, and certainly not in football....if LJ got a great offer he’d be off... Precisely. What we need is a Chairman thick enough to make the midget a better offer. "Tick-tock". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 48 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Well you posted he “got a few top 4” finishes with Everton - now you say one top four finish - do you know which is correct? And Everton have never won the European Cup as you say above...perhaps you misread their Wiki page. Not sure how comparing Everton, when Moyes took over, with Man Utd and Liverpool, when they recruited Fergie and Klopp, is relevant? And, as you say, “just to give some context” - Moyes won as much at Everton as Klopp has so far won at Liverpool...wonder which club had the greater resources and budgets? David Moyes did a great job as Everton boss... A great job? Won nothing in 11 years, 1 champions league finish in 11 years, unbelievable comment to be honest. Ps could you try and be a bit more patronising next time, I think there’s room for some more quotations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Tinmans Love Child said: A great job? Won nothing in 11 years, 1 champions league finish in 11 years, unbelievable comment to be honest You really are failing to see the wider picture and the situation at Everton FC at the time of his appointment....you got your facts wrong about his record and you tried to compare Everton to Man Utd and Liverpool! Lots of people on this thread have tried to point out what you can’t see, but they are all obviously wrong and you are right - you used the word ‘context’ in a previous post yet fail to use that when looking at Moyes’ record... Let’s leave it there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: You really are failing to see the wider picture and the situation at Everton FC at the time of his appointment....you got your facts wrong about his record and you tried to compare Everton to Man Utd and Liverpool! Lots of people on this thread have tried to point out what you can’t see, but they are all obviously wrong and you are right - you used the word ‘context’ in a previous post yet fail to use that when looking at Moyes’ record... Let’s leave it there... I’m missing the bigger picture? So you are saying they were rubbish before he joined, then he brought them top 7 finishes on average for 11 years so he did a great job? I’d agree after 2/3 seasons of stability, but he didn’t push on to better things, therefore he IMO underachieved for a club that size. My comparison to Liverpool and Man Utd is valid, because it highlights that winning nothing for 11 years at a big club is a poor record that wouldn’t have been accepted at other big clubs. I think the issue seems to be you don’t see Everton as a big club maybe? Newcastle have more Champions Leagues than Everton (under how many different managers?), Leeds and Villa have got the same number of Champions League appearances! If Moyes hadn’t played for us previously I don’t think he’d be getting the love in, a great manager wins things IMO, Moyes couldnt even win anything at Man Utd! its funny that Warnock gets lambasted yet he’s had how many promotions now 10? Pulis gets slated but he’s achieved similar to what Moyes did when at Stoke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 36 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said: I’m missing the bigger picture? So you are saying they were rubbish before he joined, then he brought them top 7 finishes on average for 11 years so he did a great job? I’d agree after 2/3 seasons of stability, but he didn’t push on to better things, therefore he IMO underachieved for a club that size. My comparison to Liverpool and Man Utd is valid, because it highlights that winning nothing for 11 years at a big club is a poor record that wouldn’t have been accepted at other big clubs. I think the issue seems to be you don’t see Everton as a big club maybe? Newcastle have more Champions Leagues than Everton (under how many different managers?), Leeds and Villa have got the same number of Champions League appearances! If Moyes hadn’t played for us previously I don’t think he’d be getting the love in, a great manager wins things IMO, Moyes couldnt even win anything at Man Utd! its funny that Warnock gets lambasted yet he’s had how many promotions now 10? Pulis gets slated but he’s achieved similar to what Moyes did when at Stoke! Moyes I think seems to be one of those managers that either does a solid/good job or bombs I think. Preston- Excellent Everton- Excellent body of work considering the financial constraints. Man Utd- Bombed. Real Sociedad- Got the biggest budget in their history and made them worse after initially steering them to midtable in 5-6 months. Didn't quite bomb but ultimately quite a big fail. Some on here have said he was on a hiding to nothing there- he wasn't. Perhaps not top 6 but certainly top half, top 8 or at worst 11th-12th at worse should have been expectations and better football also. Hiding to nothing or not? Sunderland- Inherited a tough, tough situation but at same time didn't do himself any favours- perhaps they would have gone down whoever in charge though. West Ham- Reasonable, kept them up quite comfortably in the end. Still I do wonder if some of the Pro Moyes sentiment maybe due to his past here as a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Moyes I think seems to be one of those managers that either does a solid/good job or bombs I think. Preston- Excellent Everton- Solid body of work considering the financial constraints. Man Utd- Bombed. Real Sociedad- Got the biggest budget in their history and made them worse after initially steering them to midtable in 5-6 months. Didn't quite bomb but ultimately quite a big fail. Some on here have said he was on a hiding to nothing there- he wasn't. Perhaps not top 6 but certainly top half, top 8 or at worst 11th-12th at worse should have been expectations and better football also. Hiding to nothing or not? Sunderland- Inherited a tough, tough situation but at same time didn't do himself any favours- perhaps they would have gone down whoever in charge though. West Ham- Reasonable, kept them up quite comfortably in the end. Still I do wonder if some of the Pro Moyes sentiment maybe due to his past here as a player. I would say absolutely. I would also say that he did a terrific job for Everton, admittedly a massive club, but one that was a relative pauper in comparison to the competition, and a club that was languishing near the bottom of the table when he took over. The competition at the time being relatively speaking I would suggest, more formidable than nowadays, certainly in terms of progress through to the latter stages of the Champions league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 Stoke are in talks with Luton manager Nathan Jones. Hands up who had money on that one?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Well you posted he “got a few top 4” finishes with Everton - now you say one top four finish - do you know which is correct? And Everton have never won the European Cup as you say above...perhaps you misread their Wiki page. Not sure how comparing Everton, when Moyes took over, with Man Utd and Liverpool, when they recruited Fergie and Klopp, is relevant? And, as you say, “just to give some context” - Moyes won as much at Everton as Klopp has so far won at Liverpool...wonder which club had the greater resources and budgets? David Moyes did a great job as Everton boss... Presumably, you are one of the people that say "Lee Johnson is doing a great job at Bristol City..." ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: What ,.... like Moyes ...........did , you mean What did he win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, bobby kellard was go said: What did he win? (98 takes over a Relegation threatened Preston and saves them from releagtion 98/99Takes Preston to League One Play Offs (Then Division 2) ) 99/2000 League One Title ( 2000/01 Takes Preston to Championship PO Final in first season ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said: Stoke are in talks with Luton manager Nathan Jones. Hands up who had money on that one?! Not me thats for sure. Not a "young" up and coming manager either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said: Stoke are in talks with Luton manager Nathan Jones. Hands up who had money on that one?! Not surprised Jones has attracted attention (Would have been on my list if LJ had gone) Slightly surprised Stoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 Jones now appointed. We can relax now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Chivs said: Presumably, you are one of the people that say "Lee Johnson is doing a great job at Bristol City..." ? I was giving my opinion on Moyes’ time at Everton - not sure how my thoughts on LJ are relevant to that - different clubs, different circumstances, different eras, different people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: I was giving my opinion on Moyes’ time at Everton - not sure how my thoughts on LJ are relevant to that - different clubs, different circumstances, different eras, different people... Sorry, my comment was very unexplained. You seem to be saying that Moyes did a great job at Everton by finishing top-4 or thereabouts over 11 years. But not winning anything. I disagree with you about the size and prestige of Everton at that stage. They were always one of the bigger clubs. If you think the above is a great record, then what do you think of Johnson's at City? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chivs said: Sorry, my comment was very unexplained. You seem to be saying that Moyes did a great job at Everton by finishing top-4 or thereabouts over 11 years. But not winning anything. I disagree with you about the size and prestige of Everton at that stage. They were always one of the bigger clubs. If you think the above is a great record, then what do you think of Johnson's at City? When Moyes took over at Everton they had been flirting with relegation for a while and he had naff all to spend...he still took them from perennial relegation candidates to a club challenging for European places on a regular basis. I wouldn’t say The Toffees were one of the bigger clubs when Moyes joined them. They attracted big crowds, always have, always will.....but they couldn’t really compete with the big clubs in the transfer market back then.....yet Moyes progressed them quickly... You want my opinion on LJ’s record? As I said in my previous response to you, the circumstances are different to Moyes’ time at Everton....LJ has been given a huge amount of money, in Bristol City terms, to spend on transfers and the costs associated with those transactions...he has signed loads of players, shipped lots out on loan saying they are ‘ones for the future’ - yet some of them have been binned already without being given a chance back at our club. and he has also signed some real duffers both on loan and permanently, and they’ve also been shown the door.... But he has also signed some players who I thought were fine footballers but he never gave them a real chance either (eg Djuric and Hegeler), some will say Djuric wanted to leave but I think if he had been given a proper run as first choice striker in the fifth best division in Europe, he’d have wanted to stay. To balance that, he’s signed a few real gems as well....Webster, Brownhill, Maenpaa spring to mind. I’ve read views on here that under LJ we are now ‘an established championship club’ but I don’t agree with that...we’ve had one comfortable finish under LJ - 11th - but even that season saw us plummet from a very promising position at the turn of the year. His other seasons with us have seen us hovering around the relegation zone - so I don’t think we are an established championship club just yet. It’s no secret that I wanted a proven, experienced manager at this level to be appointed when Cotts left....we didn’t get that. So I was disappointed when we were given a guy with zero track record and zero achievements in his managerial career to date. He’s no longer a ‘rookie’ - he has managed hundreds of games now and people on here say he has progressed us every season....from 18th to 17th to 11th....yep, that is an improvement year on year....but I still think that had we given the financial backing that LJ has enjoyed to a proven, successful manager at this level, we would be on a different level right now.... For example, Mick McCarthy has an amazing CV full of achievements and success - he had less than £6m to spend in total on transfer fees over his 6 year reign at Ipswich - less than £1m per season - yet he kept them competitive in this bloody hard division - and everyone’s fave, Warnock (!) didn’t piss about at Cardiff - he was brought in when they were at the bottom of this div in October 2016 - immediately turned them around, saved them from relegation and then took them into the premier league as runners up the next season. No gentle progress from 17th to 18th then an implosion from 2nd to 11th for Neil....he turned them around immediately then promoted them....wallop! Our club seems to prefer to spout confusing rhetoric externally, with phrases stolen from bullshit textbooks which are meant to blind us with us science, and treat us as though we don’t understand the game, whilst hiding behind a ‘strategy’ which is often not adhered to anyway..... ....and other clubs just keep moving past us on the way up..... LJ hasn’t relegated us but he also isn’t in any danger of promoting us either and all the while a lot of people sit in the cold at Ashton Gate bored shitless at the sheer lack of excitement... Apologies for the lengthy post.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 11 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said: Newcastle have more Champions Leagues than Everton (under how many different managers?), Leeds and Villa have got the same number of Champions League appearances! Only two managers took Newcastle into the champions league...Dalglish and Robson....and when listing clubs who have played the same number of times in the European Cup you’ve obviously forgotten that when Everton ruled English football our clubs were banned from European competition - they would have played loads of Euro games if we hadn’t been banned as during that time they finished 1st, 2nd, 1st and 4th in the top division.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 23 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Only two managers took Newcastle into the champions league...Dalglish and Robson....and when listing clubs who have played the same number of times in the European Cup you’ve obviously forgotten that when Everton ruled English football our clubs were banned from European competition - they would have played loads of Euro games if we hadn’t been banned as during that time they finished 1st, 2nd, 1st and 4th in the top division.... Good stats I like it, shame we weren’t banned from Europe when Moyes was in charge of Everton, at least he would have a legitimate excuse for his 1 champions league in 11 years at the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said: Good stats I like it, shame we weren’t banned from Europe when Moyes was in charge of Everton, at least he would have a legitimate excuse for his 1 champions league in 11 years at the club .....and Moyes wasn’t in charge at Everton when Newcastle first qualified for the champions league or when Aston Villa did - yet you still used their Euro records to ridicule both Moyes’ and Everton’s performances... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 Tinmans Love Child '1 champions league in 11 years' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 12 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said: Stoke are in talks with Luton manager Nathan Jones. Hands up who had money on that one?! Stoke's owner - you can bet on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, hodge said: Tinmans Love Child '1 champions league in 11 years' Yet he or she first posted on this thread that Moyes got Everton ‘a few top 4’ finishes....now when proved incorrect he or she is ramming the stat down everyone’s throat....while still getting proved wrong on Moyes’ record.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 52 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: .....and Moyes wasn’t in charge at Everton when Newcastle first qualified for the champions league or when Aston Villa did - yet you still used their Euro records to ridicule both Moyes’ and Everton’s performances... Wiki is serving you well! You think Moyes is great, I think he’s not, score draw? 12 minutes ago, hodge said: Tinmans Love Child '1 champions league in 11 years' Never!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Tinmans Love Child said: Wiki is serving you well! You think Moyes is great, I think he’s not, score draw? Wiki? You misread Everton’s Euro Cup Winners Cup wIn on there as a European Cup WIn....obvious because you then quoted word for word from Wiki about that win completing a double for them that season....Wiki is serving you well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Yet he or she first posted on this thread that Moyes got Everton ‘a few top 4’ finishes....now when proved incorrect he or she is ramming the stat down everyone’s throat....while still getting proved wrong on Moyes’ record.... I’m pretty sure nobody else on OTIB gives a toss anymore, you think Moyes is great, I don’t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Tinmans Love Child said: I’m pretty sure nobody else on OTIB gives a toss anymore, you think Moyes is great, I don’t Fair play mate! Thanks for the exchange of views.....it wasn’t just me that disagreed wholeheartedly with you though....lots of others.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Wiki? You misread Everton’s Euro Cup Winners Cup wIn on there as a European Cup WIn....obvious because you then quoted word for word from Wiki about that win completing a double for them that season....Wiki is serving you well.... I didn’t by the way, I’m aware of the difference in the European competitions, but please continue to spend your own time dissecting posts, I’m happy for you 6 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Fair play mate! Thanks for the exchange of views.....it wasn’t just me that disagreed wholeheartedly with you though....lots of others.... No problem with people disagreeing with me, it’s a forum after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said: I didn’t by the way, I’m aware of the difference in the European competitions, but please continue to spend your own time dissecting posts, I’m happy for you ..... Post #91 on this thread you said Everton won “European Cup in the 80s” - that’s not the European Cup Winners Cup that they actually won.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 13 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: (98 takes over a Relegation threatened Preston and saves them from releagtion 98/99Takes Preston to League One Play Offs (Then Division 2) ) 99/2000 League One Title ( 2000/01 Takes Preston to Championship PO Final in first season ) Sorry,i should have said you would have thought stoke would appoint a manager that has won a promotion or won something in the last 10 years which moyes,johnson and mcinnes have been unable to achieve. Does not matter now as they have gone for a manager who has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 6 hours ago, bobby kellard was go said: Sorry,i should have said you would have thought stoke would appoint a manager that has won a promotion or won something in the last 10 years which moyes,johnson and mcinnes have been unable to achieve. Does not matter now as they have gone for a manager who has. That’s new State an incorrect fact - and when that’s pointed out - challenge it Then when you’ve been shown to be wrong again ........Change the question ....... Now ‘Within the last 10 years ‘ Did you have a similar plan for tackling exams ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.