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Objective view on LJ


Robbored

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21 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You’re taking a newspaper article about LJ very seriously Cowshed..............it’s not that important. It’s just City related piece that others might like to see....

No I dismissed it.

Linking Johnson to Howe and Pochettino. He should have added Guardiola and Klopp and that man who divides fish and bread.

 

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6 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I read it, it didn't actually say anything. 

Exactly. A load of waffle and conjecture. Only point of interest to me was that he was peaking West Brom’s interest last season which was a bit surprising. Didn’t remember anything about that at all. Apart from that it was just pointless imho. 

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5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

No I dismissed it.

Linking Johnson to Howe and Pochettino. He should have added Guardiola and Klopp and that man who divides fish and bread.

 

That's a pathetic way to dismiss a valid point, it was saying that our manager was in the same class as Howe and Poch in terms of the metric of points gained to money spent, which is why he seems quite coveted.

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1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

You're missing the point, it's not scientific research.

It's a newspaper article, it's an opinion piece.

It doesn't need to be objective, nor back-up claims.

Aren't you just proving his point by saying this? It's an opinion piece?

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1 minute ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

That's a pathetic way to dismiss a valid point, it was saying that our manager was in the same class as Howe and Poch in terms of the metric of points gained to money spent, which is why he seems quite coveted.

No metrics are supplied in the article. Points are based on an unknown algorithum. The contacts? Unknown.

I was being silly because the article is.

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2 hours ago, italian dave said:

Or......progressive young manager, required to buy cheap and sell at a profit, who has nevertheless established the club in the Championship with season on season improvements whilst keeping 80% of the fan base on board.

Out

I have been Johnson out in the past - most strongly two seasons ago where at times I was often filled with rage - but time and a little perspective on matters leads me to think he is doing well considering the budgetary limitations placed on him.  He has made mistakes, we have wasted money, but he keeps bouncing back and in my opinion proving that he is developing.  

As long as he is not given a REAL promotion budget to use I am going to give him time to develop and not expect Top 6.  With a couple of additions this month we could actually be looking at a promotion play-off team and for me, this is shooting above what we should be expecting with the financial restrictions/sensible approach imposed by SL.

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3 hours ago, italian dave said:

Or......progressive young manager, required to buy cheap and sell at a profit, who has nevertheless established the club in the Championship with season on season improvements whilst keeping 80% of the fan base on board.

Out

Think you need to provide statistical evidence to back that claim Dave! :)

 

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2 hours ago, Sturny said:

This article says nothing remotely interesting  :sleeping:  

@Robbored please keep to winding people up and not posting this waffle 

Or am I doing your job for you right here? Jeez 

To you it’s not remotely ‘interesting’ but to others it might be.

You didn’t need to read it Sturny..............:cool2:

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1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

So why get worked up about evidence? 

It goes without saying.

You may want to ask the person who posted it originally. 

If it was objective it would been supported by data. The journalist could provide the data he has used. 

Measuring points against wages paid is problematic. Measuring points against wages paid and transfer fees again is problematic. The journalist mentions expenditure. You will see what I have done there. 

There clearly is a correlation between spending and Managerial talent. Solihull red mentions Soccernomics. The author Kupers (I think) analysis leads to the conclusion of results being 89% financed based. If you read the Numbers game Anderson and Sally use a figure of 80% with variables. Other analysts think football is too fluid( an unstable irrational business) a game to use these models and the data is unreliable. 

The journalist didn't bother with any of that.

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I think this pretty much sums up LJ. He is always going to be loved by some, hated by others and then there is me who has a barometer and he has been in that 50/50 range for ages now(probably at 53% atm. Sadly feeling optimistic we can make a playoff push but know I am in for pain). 

Anyway, my theory is that because LJ never does anything mediocre is why we have this split fanbase. He can buy or loan a 5m player and make him look like a conference player. At the same time will take an academy product or 200k player and make them worth 8 figures. 

He will make a great attacking side that can’t keep goals out. Or an organised defensive side that bores the home fans but gets fairly consistent results. 

He does the extremes and depending on your opinions of football is doing a fantastic job or is about a year and a half into borrowed time. 

At the end of it all I still do not know if LJ can take us any further but hard to make an argument against it. 

My opinion on it anyway. Personally, can’t tell if I love him or hate him atm. Picking up results but often very ugly. He has lost players and we still are midtable. From the outside looking in a fan would say we are having a great season. On fan forums after matches we leave few impressed. We are an odd side under an odd manager. 

Spot on Joe, this sums up LJ in my book especially. Didn't want him here, but accepted him and backed him to provide me and other supporters with a way forward, playing attractive football, and yes, losing some matches, obviously, but he is a definite Marmite manager to some and to others like me, a frustrating manager who makes mistakes, goes on bad runs for no known reason and then suddenly, it all comes good, but never in a consistent fashion. I personally, for what it is worth would prefer LJ to stay but for SL to bring in the head of experience with someone like McCarthy or Moyes to use LJ's coaching ability and help expand it.

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4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

You may want to ask the person who posted it originally. 

I posted because it was about LJ and thought that other posters might  like to see it.

Unlike you I didn’t read it in a deep and meaningful way and then dismiss it.............:cool2:

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3 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said:

Spot on Joe, this sums up LJ in my book especially. Didn't want him here, but accepted him and backed him to provide me and other supporters with a way forward, playing attractive football, and yes, losing some matches, obviously, but he is a definite Marmite manager to some and to others like me, a frustrating manager who makes mistakes, goes on bad runs for no known reason and then suddenly, it all comes good, but never in a consistent fashion. I personally, for what it is worth would prefer LJ to stay but for SL to bring in the head of experience with someone like McCarthy or Moyes to use LJ's coaching ability and help expand it.

Not a bad idea, but if they still have management ambitions that could prove a problem.

Joe Jordan? He would be ideal I feel, not too old, has been in and around big clubs in recent times- and yet so far as I can see no vast ambition to return to the dugout as a manager, yet vastly experienced.

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4 hours ago, Cowshed said:

No metrics are supplied in the article. Points are based on an unknown algorithum. The contacts? Unknown.

I was being silly because the article is.

Just wondering if a husband and wife, both catholic and both computer programmers, practice the algorithm method?

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30 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I posted because it was about LJ and thought that other posters might  like to see it.

Unlike you I didn’t read it in a deep and meaningful way and then dismiss it.............:cool2:

It is yourself who deemed the article objective. Its yourself who feels it has depth and meaning. 

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5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

It is yourself who deemed the article objective. Its yourself who feels it has depth and meaning. 

It’s a simple enough article Cowshed - showing how well  LJ has done given the loss of three first team regulars last season along the financial restrictions he’s had to work under. No need for background data - just simple easily proven stats/facts compiled into the article.

Its a pat on the back for LJ in other words.

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Not a bad idea, but if they still have management ambitions that could prove a problem.

Joe Jordan? He would be ideal I feel, not too old, has been in and around big clubs in recent times- and yet so far as I can see no vast ambition to return to the dugout as a manager, yet vastly experienced.

He could walk to work too, still lives in Clifton.

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35 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It’s a simple enough article Cowshed - showing how well  LJ has done given the loss of three first team regulars last season along the financial restrictions he’s had to work under. No need for background data

 

In regards to points and expenditure with no emojis, no I cant be bothered, no you still you are not getting it, and no aspersions about intelligence can you explain why?

 

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Not a bad idea, but if they still have management ambitions that could prove a problem.

Joe Jordan? He would be ideal I feel, not too old, has been in and around big clubs in recent times- and yet so far as I can see no vast ambition to return to the dugout as a manager, yet vastly experienced.

But Joe Jordan is much older than some names who have been summarily dismissed on here as being ‘dinosaurs’ - the wise OTIB sages would not like it, he’s not young enough, dynamic enough or modern enough for the experts on here - yet he is three years younger than the hugely successful Cardiff manager ... I’d take Joe in an instant - but to many City fans, older and experienced = dinosaur...

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4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

In regards to points and expenditure with no emojis, no I cant be bothered, no you still you are not getting it, and no aspersions about intelligence can you explain why?

You’re doing what LJ has been accused of - over complicated things.

Its a simple enough article Cowshed and I’m not sure why you’re labouring some kind of point. I can only assume that you’ve dismissed it because of its lack of an index?     :dunno:

 

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