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Did Bristol City FC take out a £40 million loan to help finance the Ashton Gate rebuild?

chucky

By chucky
in Football Chat

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Natchfever

Natchfever

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, chucky said:

According to this we have taken over the last 10 years,  £40 million in loans https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/revealed-bristol-city-took-out-2408411

From this Twitter post 

 

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47 minutes ago, chucky said:

According to this we have taken over the last 10 years,  £40 million in loans https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/revealed-bristol-city-took-out-2408411

From this Twitter post 

 

  1.  

Thick geezer time but I can't read BEP articles because the bastard adverts make a two minute read much longer but why would the club take out a loan for the redevelopment of something owned by someone else ?

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chucky

chucky

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1 minute ago, Loon plage said:

 

Thick geezer time but I can't read BEP articles because the bastard adverts make a two minute read much longer but why would the club take out a loan for the redevelopment of something owned by someone else ?

That was the question I was asking in the title. If Bristol City Fc don't own Ashton Gate, why are they taking a load out for its redevelopment? 

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The Original OTIB

The Original OTIB

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39 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Is noticeable that most other clubs on that list don't have external debt. Mind you, most other clubs on that don't have a loan repayment.

Most seem to be in debt to their owners through a mix of shares and loans. Hopefully there's no nasty sting in the tail that says it has to be repaid in 4 years or something...

The loans are indeed repayable within a specific time frame. It's in the accounts. See all holding/group accounts. I'm amazed it has taken a journalist/academic so long to notice. SL is no mug. See other threads on the finance.  I'm also surprised that this is still a shock to some fans. 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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1 minute ago, The Original OTIB said:

The loans are indeed repayable within a specific time frame. It's in the accounts. See all holding/group accounts. I'm amazed it has taken a journalist/academic so long to notice. SL is no mug. See other threads on the finance.  I'm also surprised that this is still a shock to some fans. 

Currently looking at the 2013/14 accounts.

I did wonder a while ago what interest payments were all about- the bank/commercial loans or payments to SL?

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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29 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Bank loans guaranteed by Pula. See 2017 as I recall. On commute so cant verfy now. Repayable by 2025.

Thanks. I'm just working my way through accounts now- initially wondered if the interest payments were to SL.

Currently looking at BCFC Holdings accounts for season just gone, and will post a bit of what it says for the loans stuff. As well as the headings obviously, bolded a few bits I think maybe important.

Quote

Bank Borrowings

"The bank loan is denominated in sterling with a nominal interest rate of 0.9% above base rate (0.5% at the year end), and is repayable on demand. The carrying amount at year end is £49,959,155 (2017- £49,676,266).

"The bank loan has been drawn down for the stadium development. The facility is secured by Pula Sport Limited's guarantee.

The bank overdraft is denominated in sterling with a nominal interest rate of 1.75% plus base rate (0.5% at the year end) and is repayable on demand. The carrying amount at year end is £3,665,158 (2017- £3,613,718).

The bank overdraft is secured by limited guarantees given by S P Lansdown totalling £4,500,000 and an unlimited guarantee given by Ashton Gate Limited".

Other Borrowings

"Other borrowings with a carrying amount of £18,260,125 (2017- £17,920,584) are denominated in sterling with a nominal interest rate of 0%. The final instalment is due on 30 May 2025.

The loan of £20,500,000 from Pula Sport Limited is interest free and secured by a fixed charge over the stadium together with fixed charges over the plant, machinery, securities, debts, goodwill and insurances held by the company and a floating charge over the undertaking and assets of the company.

The loan is repayable in five equal instalments at annual intervals beginning on 30 May 2021. The loan is interest free save for any interest accruing where repayments fall due and are not made, in which case interest shall accrue from the date due until repaid at a rate of 4.5% per annum above the 3-month London Inter-Bank Offered Rate".

 

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View from the Dolman

View from the Dolman

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1 hour ago, chucky said:

That was the question I was asking in the title. If Bristol City Fc don't own Ashton Gate, why are they taking a load out for its redevelopment? 

It didn't. Bristol City Football Club Ltd didn't take out the loans for the redevelopment. 

These loans are loans in the name of Ashton Gate Ltd, the company that owns the stadium. 

The group accounts for Bristol City Holdings Ltd reflect the accounts for both of its active subsidiary companies. 

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JasonM88

JasonM88

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1 hour ago, chucky said:

That was the question I was asking in the title. If Bristol City Fc don't own Ashton Gate, why are they taking a load out for its redevelopment? 

Bristol City Holdings own Ashton Gate. There’s been no transfer of property from BC Holdings to BS, it’s just one of those myths the bashers will give. 

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slartibartfast

slartibartfast

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Not bashing SL in any way,but..............it was always said by various media sources, sky etc that basically SL "built" it with his own money . When it's been mentioned to him in many interviews he has just given that avuncular smile and sort of changed the subject. At no time did he actually say anything different ?

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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8 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

Not bashing SL in any way,but..............it was always said by various media sources, sky etc that basically SL "built" it with his own money . When it's been mentioned to him in many interviews he has just given that avuncular smile and sort of changed the subject. At no time did he actually say anything different ?

That is/was my recollection also. However it appears the big loan (and I stand to be corrected)- i.e. that £49m one- is secured by Pula Sport's guarantee.

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BCFC11

BCFC11

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53 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks. I'm just working my way through accounts now- initially wondered if the interest payments were to SL.

Currently looking at BCFC Holdings accounts for season just gone, and will post a bit of what it says for the loans stuff. As well as the headings obviously, bolded a few bits I think maybe important.

 

You may aswell of just written that in Chinese, have not got a clue where to even start trying to understand that ?

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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56 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

It didn't. Bristol City Football Club Ltd didn't take out the loans for the redevelopment. 

These loans are loans in the name of Ashton Gate Ltd, the company that owns the stadium. 

The group accounts for Bristol City Holdings Ltd reflect the accounts for both of its active subsidiary companies. 

@Mr Popodopolous this was what I was saying to you the other day about Bristol City FC and Ashton Gate Limited being part of Bristol City Holdings, and ultimately through a tangled web, BCH being part of Pula Sports group.  BCH itself does not trade, it it used purely to consolidate BCFC and AGL positions.

Ultimately we’ve taken out a loan, guaranteed by Pula (SL in effect).  Who was the lender?

City, Bears pay rent to AGL. 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

@Mr Popodopolous this was what I was saying to you the other day about Bristol City FC and Ashton Gate Limited being part of Bristol City Holdings, and ultimately through a tangled web, BCH being part of Pula Sports group.  BCH itself does not trade, it it used purely to consolidate BCFC and AGL positions.

Ultimately we’ve taken out a loan, guaranteed by Pula (SL in effect).  Who was the lender?

City, Bears pay rent to AGL. 

Ah yeah, I remember- I did look at things like rent and interest etc briefly but never got around to looking at the accounts in full over all the years.

At one point BCFC Holdings had revenue from Concerts etc but that diverged and now it would appear they do not- I remember seeing that much when looking at the Accounts for one year.

Other Borrowings i.e. the loan from Pula are interesting, £20.5m or is that like a case of borrowing to pay debt? i.e. Borrowing from Pula to help pay the lender back and eventually pay back Pula in the required timeframe.

On the Rent thing, took a quick look at the accounts for AGL in seasons ending 2018, 2017, 2016 and 2015

Ground Rent and Service Charge- and I assume it's total rent from the 2 as you say- 2015 £1,050,000 2016 £1,050,000 2017 £2,086,000 and 2018 £2,317,585.

About £6.5m over the last 4 seasons, roughly.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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I think in summary I would say I’m glad we gave an owner like SL, he does like Bristol City, wants us to be a success, but he ain’t doing it purely for the love.  He’s making some money from backing us and has a whopping asset (AG) to secure that “investment”.

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BTRFTG

BTRFTG

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For it to be a loan it has to have repayment terms  (due dates, rates etc sl.) Of course not all loans end up being paid and assuming the ultimate beneficiary offshore is, er, SL himself if things go belly up 'come his time' I doubt he or his beneficiaries will care given much will be able to be written off as irrecoverable losses.

Without SL underwriting the works would not have progressed, so in reality he has funded the build.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Can't say I'm at all worried about the loans by Pula Sport, SL or internally.

Not particularly worried about the Bank loan either- I assume SL is the guarantor here? If so then not worried.

Do you know who the lender was?  0.9% over base seems very favourable....when clubs borrowing against future tv money are paying silly rates?

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