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Is Poor Goalkeeper Distribution Still an Issue for City and the Ball Playing CBs


Coppello

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15 minutes ago, Coppello said:

Given that Fielding started in goal yesterday, I thought it would be worth revisiting this thread to see how we compared. Of course, nothing is conclusive comparing two games, but the results are quite interesting. Baker came in for the injured Webster who is probably the most comfortable defender on the ball to ever play in a City backline. 
What is clear is that Fielding tended to go long as opposed to playing it out from the back: 
 
image.png.c9e80549bdac338e2bf2dc0975158135.png

This resulted in a pass completion of just 24% compared with Maenpaa's 54% last week. Watching the game yesterday, I recall a number of instances where our fullbacks were marked at goal kicks, forcing Fielding to hit a hopeful ball forward towards Diedhiou. The lone frontman actually had more success in the air, winning 43.5% of aerial duels on Saturday, compared with 3 from 8 against Bolton last week (green denotes success and orange means duel lost):


image.png.745fa580c2599c039855cab1cb4aa9a6.png
A couple of points to note from this. Of course, not all of these duels were as a result of kicks directly from Fielding but the area between the halfway line and the final third are those received from the keeper. In addition to this, Diedhiou was a lot busier than compared with last week. For example, he was involved in 23 duels compared with 10 during against Bolton. 

Last Saturday, as discussed in my opening post, Webster and Kalas completed more passes than any other players on the pitch. What is evident, and perhaps expected, is that Kalas and Baker are not quite on the same wavelength yet. Baker completed less passes than any other outfield player with just 14. He attempted to play the ball 26 times and therefore had a pass completion of just 53.8%:

image.png.ea09f005527bf789860f3663ba1dafaf.png

Another point which is quite interesting from this, is that he only attempted to pass to Kalas three times (the three lateral balls at the edge of our defensive third. It was quite a contrast to Webster who passed to Kalas 18 times last week. 

The Czech Republic international was as efficient as ever with the ball at his feet, completing 32 (76.2%) of his 42 passes:

image.png.a452172abc727160feab5ced9c770f09.png

Against Bolton, he shifted the ball left to Webster on 13 occasions which only comes with trust and experience of playing alongside each other. This week, it was a slightly different story, only passing to his fellow centre back on two occasions, whilst instead opting to pass the ball to Pack on 7 occasions, hitting the ball longer to Diedhiou 6 times and spreading it wide to Pisano on 5 instances. 

Whilst you cannot infer too much from a comparison of a single game against another, the data is quite interesting. One stat which is most important and cannot be denied though is the clean sheet. Another fantastic defensive performance, highlighting the excellent depth in the squad with four changes to the back 5.  
 

Do we play more to Pack's strengths when we haven't that link in Webster between defence and midfield I wonder? Pack has been below par for much of this season imo. But it seems he played a lot better yesterday. I missed a lot of the game so only guessing. Obviously id always have Webster in, just interesting that Pack seemed to play better without Webster in the side. It's only one game but interesting thing to keep an eye on.

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1 hour ago, Coppello said:

Given that Fielding started in goal yesterday, I thought it would be worth revisiting this thread to see how we compared. Of course, nothing is conclusive comparing two games, but the results are quite interesting. Baker came in for the injured Webster who is probably the most comfortable defender on the ball to ever play in a City backline. 
What is clear is that Fielding tended to go long as opposed to playing it out from the back: 
 
image.png.c9e80549bdac338e2bf2dc0975158135.png

This resulted in a pass completion of just 24% compared with Maenpaa's 54% last week. Watching the game yesterday, I recall a number of instances where our fullbacks were marked at goal kicks, forcing Fielding to hit a hopeful ball forward towards Diedhiou. The lone frontman actually had more success in the air, winning 43.5% of aerial duels on Saturday, compared with 3 from 8 against Bolton last week (green denotes success and orange means duel lost):


image.png.745fa580c2599c039855cab1cb4aa9a6.png
A couple of points to note from this. Of course, not all of these duels were as a result of kicks directly from Fielding but the area between the halfway line and the final third are those received from the keeper. In addition to this, Diedhiou was a lot busier than compared with last week. For example, he was involved in 23 duels compared with 10 during against Bolton. 

Last Saturday, as discussed in my opening post, Webster and Kalas completed more passes than any other players on the pitch. What is evident, and perhaps expected, is that Kalas and Baker are not quite on the same wavelength yet. Baker completed less passes than any other outfield player with just 14. He attempted to play the ball 26 times and therefore had a pass completion of just 53.8%:

image.png.ea09f005527bf789860f3663ba1dafaf.png

Another point which is quite interesting from this, is that he only attempted to pass to Kalas three times (the three lateral balls at the edge of our defensive third. It was quite a contrast to Webster who passed to Kalas 18 times last week. 

The Czech Republic international was as efficient as ever with the ball at his feet, completing 32 (76.2%) of his 42 passes:

image.png.a452172abc727160feab5ced9c770f09.png

Against Bolton, he shifted the ball left to Webster on 13 occasions which only comes with trust and experience of playing alongside each other. This week, it was a slightly different story, only passing to his fellow centre back on two occasions, whilst instead opting to pass the ball to Pack on 7 occasions, hitting the ball longer to Diedhiou 6 times and spreading it wide to Pisano on 5 instances. 

Whilst you cannot infer too much from a comparison of a single game against another, the data is quite interesting. One stat which is most important and cannot be denied though is the clean sheet. Another fantastic defensive performance, highlighting the excellent depth in the squad with four changes to the back 5.  
 

Definitely agree with this (fantastic) analysis, but I think playing against Forest's 2 up front vs playing against Bolton's 0 up front probably made it more difficult to pass sideways between our centre backs. 

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1 hour ago, Pugofwar said:

Definitely agree with this (fantastic) analysis, but I think playing against Forest's 2 up front vs playing against Bolton's 0 up front probably made it more difficult to pass sideways between our centre backs. 

Another brilliant analysis by @Coppello

2 up front vs effectively striker less formation can work both ways. It can make it harder to do the slow buildup between Kalas and Webster but that's why Kalas as he is effective on the ball should have a little more license than he currently does IMO. Webster is expansive with his passing then Kalas is sound if more simple with his- Fielding replacing Maenpaa also affected this because you can create a triangle stage 1 with Kalas-Webster-Maenpaa more readily than Kalas-Webster-Fielding and definitely more so than Kalas-Baker-Fielding. Then you bring Pack as the first '1' in the 4-1-4-1 into play and suddenly you can beat the press quite well and then you're away a bit, outnumbering Forest in midfield to take this example-  that is with the preferred Kalas-Webster-Maenpaa option and possibly to an extent Kalas-Baker-Maenpaa. 

Kalas-Webster-Maenpaa, bringing as it does then options with 2 technicaly good CB's and then Pack as the first '1'- undoubtedly our best ball playing combination in respect of goalie to midfield of the current squad and those who are fit.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Another brilliant analysis by @Coppello

2 up front vs effectively striker less formation can work both ways. It can make it harder to do the slow buildup between Kalas and Webster but that's why Kalas as he is effective on the ball should have a little more license IMO. Webster is expansive with his passing then Kalas is sound if more simple with his- Fielding replacing Maenpaa also affected this because you can create a triangle stage 1 with Kalas-Webster-Maenpaa more readily than Kalas-Webster-Fielding and definitely more so than Kalas-Baker-Fielding. Then you bring Pack as the first '1' in the 4-1-4-1 into play and suddenly you can beat the press quite well and then you're away a bit, outnumbering Forest in midfield to take this example-  that is with the preferred Kalas-Webster-Maenpaa option and possibly to an extent Kalas-Baker-Maenpaa. 

Kalas-Webster-Maenpaa, bringing as it does then options with 2 technicaly good CB's and then Pack as the first '1'- undoubtedly our best ball playing combination in respect of goalie to midfield of the current squad.

Try thinking of that as being a diamond. How do you cover more of the pitch in possession and create the greatest number of good passing angles … A diamond. The highlighted players have the greatest ability in the team to provide multiple R's - receive, retain, release, repeat and in Pack range (of pass).  

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5 hours ago, Coppello said:

Given that Fielding started in goal yesterday, I thought it would be worth revisiting this thread to see how we compared. Of course, nothing is conclusive comparing two games, but the results are quite interesting. Baker came in for the injured Webster who is probably the most comfortable defender on the ball to ever play in a City backline. 
What is clear is that Fielding tended to go long as opposed to playing it out from the back: 
 
image.png.c9e80549bdac338e2bf2dc0975158135.png

This resulted in a pass completion of just 24% compared with Maenpaa's 54% last week. Watching the game yesterday, I recall a number of instances where our fullbacks were marked at goal kicks, forcing Fielding to hit a hopeful ball forward towards Diedhiou. The lone frontman actually had more success in the air, winning 43.5% of aerial duels on Saturday, compared with 3 from 8 against Bolton last week (green denotes success and orange means duel lost):


image.png.745fa580c2599c039855cab1cb4aa9a6.png
A couple of points to note from this. Of course, not all of these duels were as a result of kicks directly from Fielding but the area between the halfway line and the final third are those received from the keeper. In addition to this, Diedhiou was a lot busier than compared with last week. For example, he was involved in 23 duels compared with 10 during against Bolton. 

Last Saturday, as discussed in my opening post, Webster and Kalas completed more passes than any other players on the pitch. What is evident, and perhaps expected, is that Kalas and Baker are not quite on the same wavelength yet. Baker completed less passes than any other outfield player with just 14. He attempted to play the ball 26 times and therefore had a pass completion of just 53.8%:

image.png.ea09f005527bf789860f3663ba1dafaf.png

Another point which is quite interesting from this, is that he only attempted to pass to Kalas three times (the three lateral balls at the edge of our defensive third. It was quite a contrast to Webster who passed to Kalas 18 times last week. 

The Czech Republic international was as efficient as ever with the ball at his feet, completing 32 (76.2%) of his 42 passes:

image.png.a452172abc727160feab5ced9c770f09.png

Against Bolton, he shifted the ball left to Webster on 13 occasions which only comes with trust and experience of playing alongside each other. This week, it was a slightly different story, only passing to his fellow centre back on two occasions, whilst instead opting to pass the ball to Pack on 7 occasions, hitting the ball longer to Diedhiou 6 times and spreading it wide to Pisano on 5 instances. 

Whilst you cannot infer too much from a comparison of a single game against another, the data is quite interesting. One stat which is most important and cannot be denied though is the clean sheet. Another fantastic defensive performance, highlighting the excellent depth in the squad with four changes to the back 5.  
 

Thanks Coppello.  Without giving you loads more work to do, could you do the same pictures for Stoke...be good to compare two away games...rather than a dominant home performance v Bolton.

Is Statszone an app?  And is it £10pa

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Yeah sure - i'll look at it tomorrow. Yeah, it's £10 per year but I imagine you'd quite like it. I believe Stats Zone used to be owned by 4-4-2 but they discontinued it. It's now an indie app and has included the Championship for the first time this season. There's definitely room for improvement but it's the best app I've come across of its nature.  

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33 minutes ago, Coppello said:

Yeah sure - i'll look at it tomorrow. Yeah, it's £10 per year but I imagine you'd quite like it. I believe Stats Zone used to be owned by 4-4-2 but they discontinued it. It's now an indie app and has included the Championship for the first time this season. There's definitely room for improvement but it's the best app I've come across of its nature.  

What you trying to say? 🤣 🤣 🤣

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I still don't think we should be distributing it as long as often- maybe a bit more now Webster is injured, but when you have Maenpaa with Webster and Kalas in front- then Pack in front of them- then long distribution though a useful tool, can rather bypass their ballplaying potential at times. Times it is useful too of course but Fielding's distribution Friday night didn't seem ideal!

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10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I still don't think we should be distributing it as long as often- maybe a bit more now Webster is injured, but when you have Maenpaa with Webster and Kalas in front- then Pack in front of them- then long distribution though a useful tool, can rather bypass their ballplaying potential at times. Times it is useful too of course but Fielding's distribution Friday night didn't seem ideal!

That's the point Mr P. A  long ball is a useful tool but you need someone who can execute it and Frankie is really poor with his distribution.

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6 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

That's the point Mr P. A  long ball is a useful tool but you need someone who can execute it and Frankie is really poor with his distribution.

No doubt Maenpaa and I reckon O'Leary better at it and it is a useful tool- distribution definitely Fielding's weaker point- but I'm saying we should use the longer ball more sparingly moving forward- whether it is Fielding, Maenpaa or O'Leary. % of long passing/long balls should fall IMO.

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9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

No doubt Maenpaa and I reckon O'Leary better at it and it is a useful tool- distribution definitely Fielding's weaker point- but I'm saying we should use the longer ball more sparingly moving forward- whether it is Fielding, Maenpaa or O'Leary. % of long passing/long balls should fall IMO.

Think some of it depends on how successful we are at winning the second ball. The extra man is having an effect and for me is a big reason why the 2-man midfield struggled at times. 

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