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Semenyo Recalled (Merged)


Ashtonwurzel

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Shame for Newport in the middle of a cup run, but at the risk of wishful thinking, do you think the club really are just bringing him back into the first team because they've decided it would send a valuable message to the rest of our young players? If we want everyone out on loan to be motivated by the "pathway" for years to come, they need to see someone who has performed well get recalled and used.

It would be a powerful message to other players that they are on loan for a purpose and over-achievers can progress fast. Also, as others have said, it fits with sending Eisa out on loan - a win win. Perhaps I'm clutching at straws in the face of all this speculation, but just a thought. And if he does go, let's not be precious - he's not from Bristol, he hasn't come through our system, there is very little attachment. 

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If the Premier league boys are sniffing around the lad why not bring him back and chuck him in at the deep end. Been playing regularly and up to match fitness. Many loan players surplus to their club requirements need time to get match fit and very rarely do January signings work from the outset. If he plays and impresses you could stick a 1 in front of the 2 million price tag in the current climate. Good luck to the lad. 

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8 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Antoine Semenyo, he's one of our own!

Indeed! Technically he is one of South East London's own (Woolwich I think) and then after that he was one of Filton College's own, but no doubt if he does make the first team we'll overlook that.

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14 minutes ago, Olé said:

Indeed! Technically he is one of South East London's own (Woolwich I think) and then after that he was one of Filton College's own, but no doubt if he does make the first team we'll overlook that.

Where Semenyo's value is concerned our money's safe with the Woolwich. Right, people?

 

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1 hour ago, Ivorguy said:

Well just think of last January window

Or buying Eisa and never playing him

Or signing on loan Diony and Kent

I could go on

Well...... you usually do go on and on and on

It's just unusual for you to post anything when BCFC are doing quite well- it's more often that you vent your spleen against LJ and all things BCFC.

 

Please Please call me out on this and I'll give everyone a selection of your finest.

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Will bang my head against the table if we sell. Having heard for years about our academy (and suspecting it was all propaganda) it appears we genuinely have one to be proud of. 

I thought, mistakenly, that when we were told we were producing players for the future I assumed that meant our future - not the future of whatever club is ready to fork out a few million. 

It feels counter-intuitive surely to be producing talent only to sell it before it's even blossomed to its full potential. With no disrespect intended, we're not Crewe. 

Why does it feel every time we take a step forward that we also take one going back or, at least, to the side. It's a little bewildering. 

That said, at this stage it's all speculation, but going on recent history, well... 

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18 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

Will bang my head against the table if we sell. Having heard for years about our academy (and suspecting it was all propaganda) it appears we genuinely have one to be proud of

I thought, mistakenly, that when we were told we were producing players for the future I assumed that meant our future - not the future of whatever club is ready to fork out a few million

It feels counter-intuitive surely to be producing talent only to sell it before it's even blossomed to its full potential. With no disrespect intended, we're not Crewe. 

Why does it feel every time we take a step forward that we also take one going back or, at least, to the side. It's a little bewildering. 

That said, at this stage it's all speculation, but going on recent history, well... 

Someone who signed a couple of years ago rather than Bobby, Joe or Lloyd who came through from young ages? Flip side of the second point, if players actually see that pathway of moving on to big clubs they could be more likely to sign or stay with us, imagine if we could have held on to Maddox or Kane for longer. Third point, lad signed for nothing 2 years ago potentially being sold with 1 first team appearance for £1m - £2m, not a bad return. If he's refusing to sign a new contract then we're on a clock for how much we can get for him, some have said tribunal route but if we use him and he doesn't perform at our level then that amount will go down quickly whereas this offer is on the table, we can try to ensure good additional clauses and a big sell on if he is the real deal. Anything above 30% profit if he moves big then we'll be well off. 

Can't agree we're taking any steps back with regards to our academy its just steps forward in the last couple of seasons.

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8 minutes ago, hodge said:

Someone who signed a couple of years ago rather than Bobby, Joe or Lloyd who came through from young ages? Flip side of the second point, if players actually see that pathway of moving on to big clubs they could be more likely to sign or stay with us, imagine if we could have held on to Maddox or Kane for longer. Third point, lad signed for nothing 2 years ago potentially being sold with 1 first team appearance for £1m - £2m, not a bad return. If he's refusing to sign a new contract then we're on a clock for how much we can get for him, some have said tribunal route but if we use him and he doesn't perform at our level then that amount will go down quickly whereas this offer is on the table, we can try to ensure good additional clauses and a big sell on if he is the real deal. Anything above 30% profit if he moves big then we'll be well off. 

Can't agree we're taking any steps back with regards to our academy its just steps forward in the last couple of seasons.

logical arguments, not disputing the fundamentals you raise. As I say, the side-step / back-step I mention is just the way I personally feel, rightly or wrongly. Hopefully, in the long-term, I reassess and am proved wrong. 

Personally mind, I'm foxed that our youth strategy appears to be something along the lines of: if they're good, sell 'em fast. Can't blame the club for cashing in, especially if the player himself is want-away, but using last season as an example the suspicion is that we hardly put up a struggle to keep our assets. A couple of quid and it's cheerio. Surely, that defeats the object of having an academy, unless that is, the academy is being viewed as no-more than just another revenue stream. 

 

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1 minute ago, poland_exile said:

logical arguments, not disputing the fundamentals you raise. As I say, the side-step / back-step I mention is just the way I personally feel, rightly or wrongly. Hopefully, in the long-term, I reassess and am proved wrong. 

Personally mind, I'm foxed that our youth strategy appears to be something along the lines of: if they're good, sell 'em fast. Can't blame the club for cashing in, especially if the player himself is want-away, but using last season as an example the suspicion is that we hardly put up a struggle to keep our assets. A couple of quid and it's cheerio. Surely, that defeats the object of having an academy, unless that is, the academy is being viewed as no-more than just another revenue stream. 

 

If it were cash in quick we'd have sold Bobby, Joe etc in January but we kept them around till the summer. Both only had 12 months left so we couldn't put up too much of a fight or we'd have ended up losing them for nothing or very little. Was hardly a couple of quid either.

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This semenyo recall, if its to sell him would only work for me if the fee is significant, ie 4-5 million. People on here often say that 1-2 million isnt a lot of money these days, and while its a no brainer for semenyo to want to go to chelsea, i cant see what the benefit would be for the club to let him go for what the cost of signing eisa was. At 1.5, he would be the kind of signing that we would usually be looking to bring in, not one we would be selling?

likewise, would semenyo with 1 appearance for us, really have sufficient value for us to say to chelsea that we swap him for da silva and/or palmer and kalas? If it was our england u21 left back and we agreed to swap him for some young kid who has only really played pro football in league 2, people would say we were crazy.

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3 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

logical arguments, not disputing the fundamentals you raise. As I say, the side-step / back-step I mention is just the way I personally feel, rightly or wrongly. Hopefully, in the long-term, I reassess and am proved wrong. 

Personally mind, I'm foxed that our youth strategy appears to be something along the lines of: if they're good, sell 'em fast. Can't blame the club for cashing in, especially if the player himself is want-away, but using last season as an example the suspicion is that we hardly put up a struggle to keep our assets. A couple of quid and it's cheerio. Surely, that defeats the object of having an academy, unless that is, the academy is being viewed as no-more than just another revenue stream. 

 

I think Reid and Bryan are totally different scenarios to Semenyo.  They gave us over 200 appearances (might even be 300), and we got £15.4m (plus another potential £1m) for them both.

But I certainly agree with the sentiment re Semenyo if he does go.  I hope he has come back to play, but will need to wait to see if that is the case.

I don’t want to be critical of LJ here, but if I was, you may argue he’s not giving the youngsters an opportunity quick enough.  And you’d all be right to argue ‘what about Lloyd Kelly”, “what about Joe Morrell”, “what about Max O’Leary”, but of course you could also reverse that with Taylor Moore, Zak Vyner, Tyreeq Bakinson.

I’m gonna spin it positively that I’d look at it that the academy is doing very well, and there must be a point when we start to rely on these youngsters ahead of going into the transfer market for ordinary players in future.  

I haven’t seen enough of Walsh, but if you add Joe Williams (Everton rumour) too, that’s blocking Morrell and Bakinson potentially, certainly one of them, although Joe M has probably nipped in front of Walsh currrently.

It is a fine balancing act under the pressure of results, and the way we are going at the mo’, it’s hard to criticise.

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14 minutes ago, hodge said:

If it were cash in quick we'd have sold Bobby, Joe etc in January but we kept them around till the summer. Both only had 12 months left so we couldn't put up too much of a fight or we'd have ended up losing them for nothing or very little. Was hardly a couple of quid either.

Bobby, hindsight says good deal. That said, maybe let's wait two or three years (or longer) before making that call final.

Joe, think this is the one that sticks in the craw. A lad who seemed to genuinely click with the fans and club itself, bags of talent. A great story all round. Not privvy to the negotiations that went on, maybe we did try, but think the general feeling remains he might be the one that got away. In both cases, it's too early to tell, and that alone is a source of immense frustration. If you think we got a good fee for Joe, then fair play, myself, I think he left for a song. In today's money, it really is a couple of quid. It doesn't cover a striker from Peterborough if I'm correct. 

In terms of losing them for nothing or very little: they're academy. what did they cost us in the first place. To bastardize a phrase, it's better to have tried and lost than not tried at all. With them both, i get the impression we didn't try to see how far they could go with us. 

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think Reid and Bryan are totally different scenarios to Semenyo.  They gave us over 200 appearances (might even be 300), and we got £15.4m (plus another potential £1m) for them both.

But I certainly agree with the sentiment re Semenyo if he does go.  I hope he has come back to play, but will need to wait to see if that is the case.

I don’t want to be critical of LJ here, but if I was, you may argue he’s not giving the youngsters an opportunity quick enough.  And you’d all be right to argue ‘what about Lloyd Kelly”, “what about Joe Morrell”, “what about Max O’Leary”, but of course you could also reverse that with Taylor Moore, Zak Vyner, Tyreeq Bakinson.

I’m gonna spin it positively that I’d look at it that the academy is doing very well, and there must be a point when we start to rely on these youngsters ahead of going into the transfer market for ordinary players in future.  

I haven’t seen enough of Walsh, but if you add Joe Williams (Everton rumour) too, that’s blocking Morrell and Bakinson potentially, certainly one of them, although Joe M has probably nipped in front of Walsh currrently.

It is a fine balancing act under the pressure of results, and the way we are going at the mo’, it’s hard to criticise.

think you nail it with the last point. I don't envy the position LJ is in, management is all spinning plates nowadays, so the fact we're where we are, then the bloke deserves a salute! 

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2 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Don’t believe for one second in the Chelsea transfer, purely based on the fact that they are already under criticism for hoarding so much young talent and loaning them out. Wouldn’t make sense for them or Semenyo himself career wise. And I don’t think he would go there as a first team player right now!

Maybe lessons have been learned from last season and the fact the cup run took so much out of the players. With another cup run on the horizon (Wimbledon at home for example) then maybe it’s a case of having to numbers to cover the games. Semenyo to play cup games and be on the bench for league games.

Would rather this than Watkins anyway!

This sounds an excellent idea, so it is unfortunate that Semenyo is now cup-tied! ?.

I do wonder, though, whether this might be a sort of swap for Mo Eisa, sending him out on loan to Newport to play in a division in which he did so well with Cheltanham, thus allowing Semenyo to test the waters in our Championship run-in - but not in the cup ?.

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1 hour ago, poland_exile said:

logical arguments, not disputing the fundamentals you raise. As I say, the side-step / back-step I mention is just the way I personally feel, rightly or wrongly. Hopefully, in the long-term, I reassess and am proved wrong. 

Personally mind, I'm foxed that our youth strategy appears to be something along the lines of: if they're good, sell 'em fast. Can't blame the club for cashing in, especially if the player himself is want-away, but using last season as an example the suspicion is that we hardly put up a struggle to keep our assets. A couple of quid and it's cheerio. Surely, that defeats the object of having an academy, unless that is, the academy is being viewed as no-more than just another revenue stream. 

 

It isn't though, and no actual transfers that have happened give that view any weight.

There was interest in Bryan for several years before he was sold. We rejected bids from Birmingham in 2017.

Reid went from "release at the end of the season" to worth £10m, at the age of 25ish and not signing a contract. It would have been madness to turn that bid down off the back of his first productive season.

We've been trying to tie down players with potential to longer deals. Moore got one in the summer and we activated O'Dowdas because it seems he isn't signing a new deal right now.

None of that reflects a "flog 'em as soon as they show promise" attitude.

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7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The counter argument is Engvall, Djúric, Watkins, and the loans etc.  Eisa, I’ll reserve judgment until we know what is happening with him.

Lets day the trend is improving....which is good.

Harsh on Djuric Dave - not happy with our medical staff apparently.

Easily Championship standard, and a real handful when fully fit - although his move to Salernitana appears to have been a disaster!

14 games 0 goals (Tom Nichols-esque) - will we ever know (like GON) wether our medics did more harm than good?

However, this is the same guy who has scored 7 in 14 full internationals with Bosnia.......

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3 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

It isn't though, and no actual transfers that have happened give that view any weight.

There was interest in Bryan for several years before he was sold. We rejected bids from Birmingham in 2017.

Reid went from "release at the end of the season" to worth £10m, at the age of 25ish and not signing a contract. It would have been madness to turn that bid down off the back of his first productive season.

We've been trying to tie down players with potential to longer deals. Moore got one in the summer and we activated O'Dowdas because it seems he isn't signing a new deal right now.

None of that reflects a "flog 'em as soon as they show promise" attitude.

Eh?

Reid had, as you say, 1 good season.Then we sold him.

If that's not flog 'em as soon as they show/deliver on potential, I don't know what is!

You could argue JB's TV exposure in the cup is equally valid as I doubt too many prem clubs were following a just above average champ LB (but a potentially excellent mid).He was off to Villa, remember, just as Flint was also off to another champ club.

 

Moore 'has potential' - at £1.5 m and playing on loan for 3 years we will sell at the slightest bit of interest. Who is he going to replace in our back 4? Total waste on money

Kelly - off if the Prem bid comes in

Semenyo - off if the prem bid comes in.

Janner, Bakinson etc - who are they going to replace?

They will be sold for their POTENTIAL

COD is looking to leave. We extended his contract.He had no intention of doing so if various PM's are to be believed.

 

We are a selling club. End of.

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6 hours ago, poland_exile said:

Will bang my head against the table if we sell. Having heard for years about our academy (and suspecting it was all propaganda) it appears we genuinely have one to be proud of. 

I thought, mistakenly, that when we were told we were producing players for the future I assumed that meant our future - not the future of whatever club is ready to fork out a few million. 

It feels counter-intuitive surely to be producing talent only to sell it before it's even blossomed to its full potential. With no disrespect intended, we're not Crewe. 

Why does it feel every time we take a step forward that we also take one going back or, at least, to the side. It's a little bewildering. 

That said, at this stage it's all speculation, but going on recent history, well... 

To be fair this one fell into our lap. Some good/lucky scouting from Tinnion and Butt spotted him playing for the college about a year ago and "snapped" him up.

The amazing part is that he had somehow gone under the radar until then.

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