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Semenyo Recalled (Merged)


Ashtonwurzel

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Would not surprise me if sold to Chelsea but would surprise me if sold to anybody else at this stage.

Potential bigger picture here for current loan agreements and opportunity to agree end of season transfer fees and to agree future loan opportunities.

Ultimately if our relationship with Chelsea helps us reach the premier league in the next 2 to 3 seasons then letting them buy potential on a player with 18 months left at this stage could be great business.

They are a rich established premier team who we are “friends” with and have loaned us 4 quality players in last 3 years - it is an important relationship and will have a bearing on this bit of business IMO.

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I reckon we’ve recalled to get a bigger fee. Makes it look like we’re prepared to play him if they don’t match our valuation.

With 18 months on his deal, and the player reluctant to sign a new one, we’d be foolish to not sell him for a million or 2 with a few decent add-ons.

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9 hours ago, samo II said:

Wouldn’t be a bad shout - had thought Eisa played in round three, but took a look and seems he didn’t.

Eisa doesn’t seems to have a look in just now, so I’d think a loan would be wise; in the grand sheme of things, playing a million for him isn’t that much, even if it takes a year or so to get up to speed.

Sending him back down the leagues might feel like a backward step but game time is game time; he scores ten goals, he loses no value and we reassess in the summer.

He played in the previous rounds so is very much cup tied

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What puzzles me is Eisa apparently isn't 'ready' for the Championship, although he scored a hatful of goals in L2 last season.

However after half a season and a few goals Semenyo is coming back to get played. 

Where is the logic in that? If MO needs a loan to L1 then where is the evidence that Semenyo is ready....

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4 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

What puzzles me is Eisa apparently isn't 'ready' for the Championship, although he scored a hatful of goals in L2 last season.

However after half a season and a few goals Semenyo is coming back to get played. 

Where is the logic in that? If MO needs a loan to L1 then where is the evidence that Semenyo is ready....

The logic is presumably to do with the fact that he is rated by the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd.

In any event he has been playing on the left of the attack rather than as a striker.

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14 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

What puzzles me is Eisa apparently isn't 'ready' for the Championship, although he scored a hatful of goals in L2 last season.

However after half a season and a few goals Semenyo is coming back to get played. 

Where is the logic in that? If MO needs a loan to L1 then where is the evidence that Semenyo is ready....

It’s a fair point; I guess we have to go on what the coaching staff see away from the pitch too, not just the performances.

One other aspect to consider is that players do most of their work away from games.

Perhaps in the case of Eisa the club have wanted to have him train with them for six months to improve him, before seeing the results of that, which might be best served getting minutes elsewhere, while with Semenyo they have seen more rapid improvement over the first six months than expected, so now want more time to work with him in training/give him time on pitch with our players to see how he’s progressed.

Similar to how we’ve managed Morrell, who now looks effective for us.

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2 hours ago, SX227 said:

Eh?

Reid had, as you say, 1 good season.Then we sold him.

If that's not flog 'em as soon as they show/deliver on potential, I don't know what is!

You could argue JB's TV exposure in the cup is equally valid as I doubt too many prem clubs were following a just above average champ LB (but a potentially excellent mid).He was off to Villa, remember, just as Flint was also off to another champ club.

 

Moore 'has potential' - at £1.5 m and playing on loan for 3 years we will sell at the slightest bit of interest. Who is he going to replace in our back 4? Total waste on money

Kelly - off if the Prem bid comes in

Semenyo - off if the prem bid comes in.

Janner, Bakinson etc - who are they going to replace?

They will be sold for their POTENTIAL

COD is looking to leave. We extended his contract.He had no intention of doing so if various PM's are to be believed.

 

We are a selling club. End of.

Not that long ago, all too often we were paying big wages for journeymen, often at the tail end of their careers, so that when things didn't work out we struggled to get rid of them, and when we could there was no value left for the club. It meant that SL picked up the tab for £50m of losses. 

This, together with the impact of ffp lead to the club's current policy of sustainability so that the club lives within it's financial means.

As a result we now have two main areas for player recruitment. The first is bringing in young players with potential for the future. The second is development of our own players through the academy.

As I see it, both options are designed to develop players good enough to come in to, and benefit and improve, the first team squad.The added factor is that should they be good enough to attract interest from other (bigger) clubs, and the player concerned wants to leave to improve their careers and financial situation, then the cub benefits from the profit on the transfer fees received, and that profit can then be applied to further developed and  improve the playing squad by bringing in more young players with potential etc. etc.

One of the issues has been that if you have a squad full of players, " for the future', you will struggle to compete with other clubs able to afford experienced squads, and we have seen a shift over the last year with the likes of Kalas an Hunt coming into play alongside Kelly, Morrell, O'dowdy and Elliason. While we are, and have been, a "lesser" championship club , it will always be hard to keep hold of our better players , who have ambition and attract interest from bigger clubs , so we saw 3 of our better players leave in the summer because of that, but the transfer fees received have gone into the kitty to further improve the squad.

We now have a team challenging for the play off places, but can only play 11 on the pitch, so they are bound to be players not getting game time who will be frustrated and feel there are better, and  better rewarded, opportunities elsewhere, e.g. O'Dowda. If he should go, then I suspect it would be for a healthy profit on the fee that brought him here, and I feel much more confident now that if that happens, that the club would use the money received to further develop the playing squad.

Are we a selling club, yes, because until we can offer the wages of club's with parachute payments, or bottom end prem clubs, it will be difficult to hold on to players good enough to attract interest from clubs of that ilk. However, I don't think that means we are looking to sell, just to make a profit as an end in itself, as the ultimate aim is to build a team and squad capable of challenging for promotion.

Last summer we lost Bryan, Flint and Reid - three of our best players. Many saw their sales as evidence that we were "just" a selling club, and I read posts asking how could we ever expect to challenge for promotion by selling our best. I for one did not expect that at the end of January we would be on heels of the play off teams with what seems a stronger defence and with Palmer's addition, albeit on loan, a real possibility that we could be in with a chance of being in the mix come the end of the season. If that's us being a selling club, count me in!

 

 

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16 minutes ago, chinapig said:

The logic is presumably to do with the fact that he is rated by the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd.

In any event he has been playing on the left of the attack rather than as a striker.

Chelsea like the look of him on loan, so think he will fit right in with their policy for young English players.   :)

 

 

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38 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

What puzzles me is Eisa apparently isn't 'ready' for the Championship, although he scored a hatful of goals in L2 last season.

However after half a season and a few goals Semenyo is coming back to get played. 

Where is the logic in that? If MO needs a loan to L1 then where is the evidence that Semenyo is ready....

Has anyone said Semenyo is first team ready?

I think this deal is so that Eisa can go out on loan so Semenyo will fill that place in the first team. 

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19 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Not that long ago, all too often we were paying big wages for journeymen, often at the tail end of their careers, so that when things didn't work out we struggled to get rid of them, and when we could there was no value left for the club. It meant that SL picked up the tab for £50m of losses. 

This, together with the impact of ffp lead to the club's current policy of sustainability so that the club lives within it's financial means.

As a result we now have two main areas for player recruitment. The first is bringing in young players with potential for the future. The second is development of our own layers through the academy.

As I see it, both options are designed to develop players good enough to come in to, ad benefit and improve, the first team squad.The added factors that should they be good enough to attract interest from other (bigger) clubs, and the player concerned wants to leave to improve their careers and financial situation, then the cub benefits from the profit on the transfer fees received and that profit can then be applied to further developed improve the playing squad by bringing in more young players with potential etc. etc.

One of the issues has been that if you have a squad full of players " for the future' you will struggle to compete with other clubs able to afford experienced squads, and we have seen a shift over the last year with the likes of Kalas an Hunt coming in alongside Kelly, Morrell, O'dowdy and Elliason. While we re and have been a "lesser" championship club , it will always be hard to keep hold of our better players , who have ambition and attract interest from bigger clubs , so we saw 3 of our better players leave in the summer, but the transfer fees received have gone into the kitty to further improve the squad.

We now have a team challenging for the play off places, but can only play 11 on the pitch, so they are bound to be players not getting game time who will be frustrated and feel there are better, and perhaps better rewarded, opportunities elsewhere, e.g. O'Dowda. If he should go then I suspect it would be for a healthy profit on th fee that brought him here, and I feel much more confident now that if that happens, that the cub would use the money received to further develop the playing squad.

Are we a selling club, yes, because until we can offer the wages of club's with parachute payments, or bottom end prem clubs it will be difficult to hold on to players good enough to attract interest from clubs of that ilk. However, I don;t think that means we are looking to sell, just to make a profit , as an end in itself, as the ultimate aim is to build a team and squad capable of challenging for promotion.

Last summer we lost Bryan, Flint and Reid - three of our best players. Many saw their sales as evidence that we were "just" a selling club, and I read posts asking how could we ever expect to challenge for promotion by selling our best. I for one did not expect that at the end of January we would be on heels of the play off teams with what seems a stronger defence and with Palmer's addition, albeit on loan, a real possibility that we could be in with a chance of being in the mix come the end of the season. If that's us being a selling club, count me in!

Well explained Downend. Hopefully the less aware posters will read this thread and will understand what sustainability means within SLs strategy.

It also highlights that SL was right to stand by LJ and maintain stability when some fans and MA wanted him sacked. LJ has coped tremendously well with the departures of last season and has created a stronger squad with strength in depth and all with the restrictions imposed by SLs strategy.

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Welcome back, Semenyo.

Surely this has to be for a sale to a Premier League development squad.  Based on our progress this season, I can't see him making our first team squad.

If he is sold to a Chelsea for example, perhaps we'll have him back on loan next season as an exciting prospect!

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On 17/01/2019 at 14:55, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

@Ashtonwurzel How many times have you personally seen Semenyo play this season to be able to back up this statement?

You clearly are unable to make sense of the section you copied

Well I would agree and say YOU ARE WRONG !!

Nailed on, no idea where this odd fixation from the originator of this post comes from

1) Seen him play in matches and in training

2) Seems you were unable to make sense of the section I copied.

3) You are WRONG !!

4) I knew this was happening.

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1 hour ago, robin_unreliant said:

What puzzles me is Eisa apparently isn't 'ready' for the Championship, although he scored a hatful of goals in L2 last season.

However after half a season and a few goals Semenyo is coming back to get played. 

Where is the logic in that? If MO needs a loan to L1 then where is the evidence that Semenyo is ready....

Ignore age , previous history ...............Because Semenyo is simply a far better player 

 

FWIW I can’t see Lee picking him before Palmer, Pato, NE , COD..........

I would think he’s off this week to the Prem

 

The only vague possibility i can think of , is that COD is off and we want to get Semenyo around first team

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4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Ignore age , previous history ...............Because Semenyo is simply a far better player 

 

FWIW I can’t see Lee picking him before Palmer, Pato, NE , COD..........

I would think he’s off this week to the Prem

 

The only vague possibility i can think of , is that COD is off and we want to get Semenyo around first team

First and last parts are spot on. Not sure on point two.

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4 hours ago, SX227 said:

Harsh on Djuric Dave - not happy with our medical staff apparently.

Easily Championship standard, and a real handful when fully fit - although his move to Salernitana appears to have been a disaster!

14 games 0 goals (Tom Nichols-esque) - will we ever know (like GON) wether our medics did more harm than good?

However, this is the same guy who has scored 7 in 14 full internationals with Bosnia.......

Certainly don’t disagree Djuric was a good player (at least when fit), but we buckled and sold him at cut price, losing over £1m...that’s what made it a bad recruitment. 

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24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Certainly don’t disagree Djuric was a good player (at least when fit), but we buckled and sold him at cut price, losing over £1m...that’s what made it a bad recruitment. 

Wanted to move back for Italy for family reasons, nothing the club could do. These things happen.

We have profited from Palmer wanting to move South.

Swings and roundabouts.

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57 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

The only vague possibility i can think of , is that COD is off and we want to get Semenyo around first team

Wild speculation Bob.

My guess is that Semenyo is off the Chelsea to go out on loan from them rather than us. Might possibly be a bargaining chip for signing Kalas on a permanent tho..........if he’d want to stay at AG of course.

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1 hour ago, Ashtonwurzel said:

Don't know but LJ did stress "player trading". Maybe COD out and Semenyo and a striker in. Just speculation.

We're not under any pressure to sell COD this window so it would take a very large bid, and I can't see that happening. 

Everything I've been told since the start of January suggests Semenyo will be off so very interested to see if you are right and he is being brought back to play, if true that must have been a very recent development (last week or so).

As I see it though, Semenyo doesn't get in our team at the moment, there is 100% firm interest in him from other clubs; so seems more likely we are willing to let him go and have value in the market (as MA calls it) with a nice 30% sell-on clause on him.

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17 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Wild speculation Bob.

My guess is that Semenyo is off the Chelsea to go out on loan from them rather than us. Might possibly be a bargaining chip for signing Kalas on a permanent tho..........if he’d want to stay at AG of course.

That’s where my money is (Semenyo to Prem - prob Chelsie)

Time to be strong about clauses 

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If Semenyo is off to Chelsea, how is this really any different to the McCoulsky deal?

We've a young guy with a lot of potential. We cannot justify playing him in our first team as he is not yet ready.  We do not have the financial luxury to simply keep him here with us, training with the 1st team and playing U23s. Also, the player does not want to play in our U23s for £3,000 a week.  Chelsea will give him a huge pay rise, the very best coaching, we make a very good profit, and we build the relationship as well.

I think I heard Ashton talk about players progressing faster than the club? It could be that Semenyo is now progressing faster than we are (up for debate of course). If so then fair play, look after yourself in this world and take the opportunities when they come knocking, you just cannot guarantee that they'll ever come again.

Footnote: If he does go then is it realistic to think Chelsea might  loan him back to us for the rest of the season?

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34 minutes ago, Ashtonwurzel said:

Wanted to move back for Italy for family reasons, nothing the club could do. These things happen.

We have profited from Palmer wanting to move South.

Swings and roundabouts.

Yeah I know. And you don’t really want an unhappy player here, but I thought we should’ve played a bit more hardball on the fee. 

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45 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

We're not under any pressure to sell COD this window so it would take a very large bid, and I can't see that happening. 

Everything I've been told since the start of January suggests Semenyo will be off so very interested to see if you are right and he is being brought back to play, if true that must have been a very recent development (last week or so).

As I see it though, Semenyo doesn't get in our team at the moment, there is 100% firm interest in him from other clubs; so seems more likely we are willing to let him go and have value in the market (as MA calls it) with a nice 30% sell-on clause on him.

I was told 2 weeks ago that SL wanted him back to play. But yes things may well have changed and we might be willing to sell straight away or a sale and loan back type scenario might be in the offing.

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