England u17 world cup winners

[Judda]

Where are they now?

Depressing reading mostly...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46800068

We need to get these lads more minutes.

[INCRED]

Need Managers at clubs to have the bottle to play them otherwise the status quo will remain as it is.

 

[Bristol Rob]

1 hour ago, Judda said:

Where are they now?

Depressing reading mostly...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46800068

We need to get these lads more minutes.

Our kids aren't largely expected to feature much before they get to 23 years old, so it's no surprise that most of them are still to establish themselves in a first team squad.

Guess that in the next 5 years we might see more of them!

[internetjef]

Looks like the defenders have really struggled to break through. Some of the attacking players have fared better though. Guess less risky to get attacking players some minutes off the bench than it is to start putting inexperienced defenders in against prem quality strikers 

 

still if you have a look through the under 21s and include the ones who have already been capped at full level we have some great prospects for future which bodes well 

[Judda]

2 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Our kids aren't largely expected to feature much before they get to 23 years old, so it's no surprise that most of them are still to establish themselves in a first team squad.

Guess that in the next 5 years we might see more of them!

Yes. But surely it's better for their development to play mens football earlier (like hpw we loan out our youngsters)

[CheddarReds]

Seems odd to write the article in the first place really. I feel like writing it at this stage is promoting the demand for instant success which isn't realistic, as good as some of those are and as much as we want those players to get opportunities, chances are in 18months they won't cement themselves as world class players and starters at their club. Well done to Jadon Sancho who in fairness is getting a lot of starts. 

Would be useful to see the minutes they're getting in comparison to the likes of Solanke, Loftus-Cheek etc who are regarded as youngsters but I'd wager they didn't have as many minutes as Sancho, Foden, Odoi, at the same age of their career. It could show whether we're providing more opportunities, though saying that this age group is very highly regarded. 

[Unan]

You have to blame the English players for their lack of game time really. You always hear the argument that they never get a chance, but they have to find their chance wherever they can.

Until recently, and even still generally, none of our players ever leave England to get game time. The players from countries such as Argentina, Brazil, Belgium etc pack their bags when they're young & move to another country to get game time and improve.

It seems our youngsters are happy with sitting on the bench until they're in their mid 20s & then never being able to reach the heights they once could've. Maybe it's a cultural thing but when you see hundreds of young foreign players moving around the world to fulfil their potential, then see tens if not hundreds of young English players rot in the reserves of the top teams you have to wonder if our English players have the same hunger.

[Robin1988]

Wtf? They were 17 when they won the tournament in October 2017. They're barely adults.

Having two who are on the verge of the first team (Foden & CHO) at top-six Premier League clubs and another making waves in Germany is sensational.

[Firstyardleftinbed]

9 hours ago, Unan said:

You have to blame the English players for their lack of game time really. You always hear the argument that they never get a chance, but they have to find their chance wherever they can.

Until recently, and even still generally, none of our players ever leave England to get game time. The players from countries such as Argentina, Brazil, Belgium etc pack their bags when they're young & move to another country to get game time and improve.

It seems our youngsters are happy with sitting on the bench until they're in their mid 20s & then never being able to reach the heights they once could've. Maybe it's a cultural thing but when you see hundreds of young foreign players moving around the world to fulfil their potential, then see tens if not hundreds of young English players rot in the reserves of the top teams you have to wonder if our English players have the same hunger.

Agree with this post entirely. In my opinion it's this lack of willingness for English players to play abroad and learn how to play different styles of football that has held up back for years. However, with so much more money on offer for young players over here you can definitely understand why they stay and sit on the bench.

[Red Skin]

10 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

Wtf? They were 17 when they won the tournament in October 2017. They're barely adults.

Having two who are on the verge of the first team (Foden & CHO) at top-six Premier League clubs and another making waves in Germany is sensational.

Exactly.  Most seem to be progressing to me.   

Yes, young English players aren't generally getting a chance, but this story isn't the vehicle for highlighting the issue IMHO.

[phantom]

16 hours ago, Judda said:

Where are they now?

Depressing reading mostly...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46800068

We need to get these lads more minutes.

 

10 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

Wtf? They were 17 when they won the tournament in October 2017. They're barely adults.

Having two who are on the verge of the first team (Foden & CHO) at top-six Premier League clubs and another making waves in Germany is sensational.

I agree with @Robin1988 they are still very early in the careers and need to be managed correctly, I would be more worried about none of them making it to a decent standard in 4/5 years time

[JoeAman08]

What is great is that most are putting pressure on their clubs by not signing new deals and going abroad. Sancho is the highlighted one but reckon there are 15-20 already at big clubs across Europe and only going to be more. 

The story is a bit off though. They are only 18-19 years old now. They should be getting close to first teams but not every teenager will take to top flight football like Sancho or Hudson Odoi. 

[EnderMB]

To be frank, I blame the kids.

They are the ones that signed contracts with the likes of Man City and Chelsea, despite their abysmal record of promoting youth. You only need to look at Sancho and Hudson-Odoi to see that even international-level players can barely get opportunities at their clubs.

The facts are all there, and have been there for years. Chelsea have the best academy in England, yet they haven't produced a home-grown player for their own team since John Terry. Man City have Foden, but have blown hundreds of millions on their own academy and have little to show for it.

Instead of blaming the clubs, the players should be blamed for taking the short-term option. I have no doubt that they are getting paid brilliantly to be in a top-tier academy, probably more than they would get from us, but they are wasting their formative years playing non-competitive football. To make things even worse, the likes of Guardiola blame our league system, and has called repeatedly for B Teams to be added to the Football League.

[bengalcub]

Should be 5 or 6 homegrown in every starting 11 , its been done to death but for how good the prem is its killing our youth.

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

To be frank, I blame the kids.

They are the ones that signed contracts with the likes of Man City and Chelsea, despite their abysmal record of promoting youth. You only need to look at Sancho and Hudson-Odoi to see that even international-level players can barely get opportunities at their clubs.

The facts are all there, and have been there for years. Chelsea have the best academy in England, yet they haven't produced a home-grown player for their own team since John Terry. Man City have Foden, but have blown hundreds of millions on their own academy and have little to show for it.

Instead of blaming the clubs, the players should be blamed for taking the short-term option. I have no doubt that they are getting paid brilliantly to be in a top-tier academy, probably more than they would get from us, but they are wasting their formative years playing non-competitive football. To make things even worse, the likes of Guardiola blame our league system, and has called repeatedly for B Teams to be added to the Football League.

I agree with a lot of that.

[Bristol Rob]

11 hours ago, Unan said:

You have to blame the English players for their lack of game time really. You always hear the argument that they never get a chance, but they have to find their chance wherever they can.

Until recently, and even still generally, none of our players ever leave England to get game time. The players from countries such as Argentina, Brazil, Belgium etc pack their bags when they're young & move to another country to get game time and improve.

It seems our youngsters are happy with sitting on the bench until they're in their mid 20s & then never being able to reach the heights they once could've. Maybe it's a cultural thing but when you see hundreds of young foreign players moving around the world to fulfil their potential, then see tens if not hundreds of young English players rot in the reserves of the top teams you have to wonder if our English players have the same hunger.

Get that to a point, but given that from the squad of U17 world cup winners, probably no more than half of them will go on to have a professional career, can you blame them for wanting to learn their trade at the best funded academies and possibly on a wage that they would struggle To Get elsewhere?

As for moving overseas at a young age..  Didn't do Engvall much good did it! 

End of the day, most of the kids in that tournament were doing their GCSEs the year they won the tournament, and most of them wouldn't have started shaving yet, let alone be physically developed enough to play senior football.

They should be proud of what they achieved, but to expect u17s who beat other u17s to be able to compete in first teams would be by exception rather than the norm.

[ScottishRed]

40 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

To be frank, I blame the kids.

They are the ones that signed contracts with the likes of Man City and Chelsea, despite their abysmal record of promoting youth. You only need to look at Sancho and Hudson-Odoi to see that even international-level players can barely get opportunities at their clubs.

The facts are all there, and have been there for years. Chelsea have the best academy in England, yet they haven't produced a home-grown player for their own team since John Terry. Man City have Foden, but have blown hundreds of millions on their own academy and have little to show for it.

Instead of blaming the clubs, the players should be blamed for taking the short-term option. I have no doubt that they are getting paid brilliantly to be in a top-tier academy, probably more than they would get from us, but they are wasting their formative years playing non-competitive football. To make things even worse, the likes of Guardiola blame our league system, and has called repeatedly for B Teams to be added to the Football League.

There is a lot of truth in that.

Those youngsters are earning huge money with little or no pressure to try and force themselves into the first team squad at their respective clubs.

BUT, to a very large extent you have to blame the clubs that are willing to pay such sums to what are no more than kids - you can't blame the players for signing the contract!

IIRC Tammy when he joined us, was on £25k a week at Chelsea having played no more than 100 minutes first team football - madness! But Chelsea would know that if they didn't offer him and others, than sort of deal then other clubs would.

The way forward is to limit the amount a player can  be paid until he is a certain age, the problem is that all clubs across the major leagues would need to sign up to it and that isn't going to happen.

The other key issue is the pressure HC's and managers are under particularly in the PL to survive because of the money involved. As a manager you would have to be absolutely sure that a youngster was not going to let you down in key games - its a difficult one as the only way they really learn is to play in big games but the risks out way the benefits in many instances.

Even if a ruling came into place that said you must have 2 / 3 players under 21 in your match day squad how many of them would actually get any game time unless the game was won?

Totally respect the youngsters that have gone abroad to get minutes and I think more of them should do that as it would benefit them and the English game in general.

[Prinny]

Nigeria have won this competition 3 out of the last 6 times and Africa have dominated it. I know people are excited that "we" won "something" but this competition doesn't mean much. under 17s is so so far away from first team football. It's less than a year and a half since it was played so  actually think the amount of players playing at a high level is pretty remarkable rather than disappointing.

One of the Golden boot winners (Daniel Allsopp) ended up playing for Rovers briefly just for further context of the tournament. And there's a lot of names I recognise from Champ/football manager but less from actually being good in the real world.

[Carey 6]

I don't even think this is an issue to do with young English kids. Just youth in general isn't going to be trusted often at the top level. It's also way too early after the tournament to see if they'll make it anyway. As @Bristol Rob just mentioned, U17's playing in their first teams from that tournament now is definitely going to be the odd exception rather than the norm. Spain were runners up that year, only Ferran Torres (Valencia - 20 apps) Gomez Martin (BVB - 5 apps) and Lara (Sevilla - 1 App) have played at the top level.

It would be better to do this sort of article from our U17 squad in 2015. 

Tom Davies & Trent Alexander Arnold are the two standouts from that side. Jay Dasilva,  Herbie Kane and Ike Ugbo have also played a reasonable amount of minutes last season & this one, albeit at varying levels. 

Also, dodgy passports aside, Nigeria have won the U17 world cup 5 times, 2 of which were recent in 2013 & 2015. That's never made their senior national team into world beaters. They don't have an abundance of players at the top level either. After doing a quick search, I believe these four are the only players currently playing in a top league from their squads at both tournaments. 

2013 - Isaac Success (Watford) & Iheanacho (Leicester)  

2015 - Okwonkwo (Bologna) & Chukweuze (Villareal) 

 

 

 

[Bristol Rob]

5 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

There is a lot of truth in that.

Those youngsters are earning huge money with little or no pressure to try and force themselves into the first team squad at their respective clubs.

BUT, to a very large extent you have to blame the clubs that are willing to pay such sums to what are no more than kids - you can't blame the players for signing the contract!

IIRC Tammy when he joined us, was on £25k a week at Chelsea having played no more than 100 minutes first team football - madness! But Chelsea would know that if they didn't offer him and others, than sort of deal then other clubs would.

The way forward is to limit the amount a player can  be paid until he is a certain age, the problem is that all clubs across the major leagues would need to sign up to it and that isn't going to happen.

The other key issue is the pressure HC's and managers are under particularly in the PL to survive because of the money involved. As a manager you would have to be absolutely sure that a youngster was not going to let you down in key games - its a difficult one as the only way they really learn is to play in big games but the risks out way the benefits in many instances.

Even if a ruling came into place that said you must have 2 / 3 players under 21 in your match day squad how many of them would actually get any game time unless the game was won?

Totally respect the youngsters that have gone abroad to get minutes and I think more of them should do that as it would benefit them and the English game in general.

Liverpool already have a youth team wage cap.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiRpNb-lfffAhVB8hQKHUp0CfkQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2Fpremier-league%2Fliverpool-news-youth-players-wages-40000-a-year-jurgen-klopp-a7358886.html&psig=AOvVaw0zaZsm1BaOMqmOXA2giTWY&ust=1547895437072714

 

And long URLs!

[Carey 6]

3 minutes ago, Prinny said:

Nigeria have won this competition 3 out of the last 6 times and Africa have dominated it. I know people are excited that "we" won "something" but this competition doesn't mean much. under 17s is so so far away from first team football. It's less than a year and a half since it was played so  actually think the amount of players playing at a high level is pretty remarkable rather than disappointing.

One of the Golden boot winners (Daniel Allsopp) ended up playing for Rovers briefly just for further context of the tournament. And there's a lot of names I recognise from Champ/football manager but less from actually being good in the real world.

Going off topic a little but haven't heard that name in years & used to always sign him for City on FM 2006. He banged them in for fun! 

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, ScottishRed said:

There is a lot of truth in that.

Those youngsters are earning huge money with little or no pressure to try and force themselves into the first team squad at their respective clubs.

BUT, to a very large extent you have to blame the clubs that are willing to pay such sums to what are no more than kids - you can't blame the players for signing the contract!

IIRC Tammy when he joined us, was on £25k a week at Chelsea having played no more than 100 minutes first team football - madness! But Chelsea would know that if they didn't offer him and others, than sort of deal then other clubs would.

The way forward is to limit the amount a player can  be paid until he is a certain age, the problem is that all clubs across the major leagues would need to sign up to it and that isn't going to happen.

The other key issue is the pressure HC's and managers are under particularly in the PL to survive because of the money involved. As a manager you would have to be absolutely sure that a youngster was not going to let you down in key games - its a difficult one as the only way they really learn is to play in big games but the risks out way the benefits in many instances.

Even if a ruling came into place that said you must have 2 / 3 players under 21 in your match day squad how many of them would actually get any game time unless the game was won?

Totally respect the youngsters that have gone abroad to get minutes and I think more of them should do that as it would benefit them and the English game in general.

A story today they want to give Hudson Odoi 70k a week to stay. Even big clubs like Bayern will probably shy away from that for a teenager with less than 1000 minutes as a professional. So clubs are a massive problems but the kids are applying pressure more each season. 

[bengalcub]

How about the kids who are in the academies that love the club , how is it there fault that an average foreign player is trusted over there youthfullness ? 

I dont blame the kids phil foden should be in week in week out , even pep is stifling his career .

[ScottishRed]

9 minutes ago, bengalcub said:

How about the kids who are in the academies that love the club , how is it there fault that an average foreign player is trusted over there youthfullness ? 

I dont blame the kids phil foden should be in week in week out , even pep is stifling his career .

So if you were Pep who would you drop to allow Foden to play every week?

[bengalcub]

4 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

So if you were Pep who would you drop to allow Foden to play every week?

It makes no odds with the squad they have , he would be surrounded by clqds players whatever 

Class

[chinapig]

10 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

A story today they want to give Hudson Odoi 70k a week to stay. Even big clubs like Bayern will probably shy away from that for a teenager with less than 1000 minutes as a professional. So clubs are a massive problems but the kids are applying pressure more each season. 

The irony is that Sarri wants to sign yet another midfielder but the Board are said to be reluctant because it will prevent young players coming through. Like that happens at Chelsea all the time.

[Cunnyfunt]

11 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

A story today they want to give Hudson Odoi 70k a week to stay. Even big clubs like Bayern will probably shy away from that for a teenager with less than 1000 minutes as a professional. So clubs are a massive problems but the kids are applying pressure more each season. 

Reports say Bayern are willing to offer 85k per week to him.

[Robin1988]

On 18/01/2019 at 10:00, EnderMB said:

To be frank, I blame the kids.

They are the ones that signed contracts with the likes of Man City and Chelsea, despite their abysmal record of promoting youth. You only need to look at Sancho and Hudson-Odoi to see that even international-level players can barely get opportunities at their clubs.

 The facts are all there, and have been there for years. Chelsea have the best academy in England, yet they haven't produced a home-grown player for their own team since John Terry. Man City have Foden, but have blown hundreds of millions on their own academy and have little to show for it.

 Instead of blaming the clubs, the players should be blamed for taking the short-term option. I have no doubt that they are getting paid brilliantly to be in a top-tier academy, probably more than they would get from us, but they are wasting their formative years playing non-competitive football. To make things even worse, the likes of Guardiola blame our league system, and has called repeatedly for B Teams to be added to the Football League.

Have to disagree here. They might not have the best record of promoting youth but if Chelsea come up to you and say "Does your son fancy playing for the best academy in England?" it's not a bad shout to say yes. For Man City, look at Ben Mee and Kieran Trippier. Both came through the academy, dropped down but are now back in the Prem playing at a very good standard. Sturridge too, injuries aside. Probably a few more I can't remember.

[Cowshed]

4 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Have to disagree here. They might not have the best record of promoting youth but if Chelsea come up to you and say "Does your son fancy playing for the best academy in England?" it's not a bad shout to say yes. For Man City, look at Ben Mee and Kieran Trippier. Both came through the academy, dropped down but are now back in the Prem playing at a very good standard. Sturridge too, injuries aside. Probably a few more I can't remember.

Its debatable if Chelsea are the best academy in England. A difficulty is that at 17 there are clubs capping first year pro salaries at £40000 a year - Liverpool, Southampton and Spur do this. Chelsea do not. Teenage first year pros in the Premier league can earn hundreds of thousands a year.

[Luxo Jr.]

Yeah, can't see that as too depressing to be honest. The majority of the players who aren't getting close to the first team are at Chelsea, but Hudson Odoi must surely be moving soon or getting a regular run in the team.

Meanwhile Sancho is doing phenomenally, Panzo apparently played very well in his debut for Monaco, Gibbs-White is impressing everyone for Wolves and Smith-Rowe is really benefiting from Arsenal's Europa League run -  then there are the young players not from this squad also playing well abroad, like Reiss Nelson for Hoffenheim.