BobbyC Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 18 hours ago, BTRFTG said: Tainton and Merrick shunned the club for some time afterwards, though later softened. Merrick in particular wasn't that old for a player of his unquestionable talent and the fact he never played in earnest again Geof is currently going through a rough time.He's on dialysis and has recently had a heart attack.....A great player in his day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 8 hours ago, cidered abroad said: Crazy contracts, a Board and non football management creaming off everything they could lay their hands on. Very few season tickets in those days, meant that large amounts of cash were there on match days with lots of fingers in the pile. 27,000 against Man U when we could all see it was close to a full house of 40,000! We turned up in good numbers and still get the blame from some for not "supporting the club in sufficient numbers". AD only had money for new recruits in the early days in Div One. After Hunter, Cormack, Garland and Royle arrived, we only signed junk from abroad and reserves like Hay from English clubs. But don't feel sorry for him as he was the main instigator of the eight/eleven year contracts. More lunatics at Ashton Gate than in Barrow Gurney! (Not intended as as insult to those in BG) The whole shambles set the club back for many many years. Those City fans who were not alive then, owe a big debt to Coller, Sage, Boyd, Des Williams, Terry Cooper and those of us who bought shares with all the cash we had at the time. To go from 13th (13/92) in May '79, to 92nd (92/92) three and a half years later, in December '82, took some doing. Norwich were relegated from the top the year after us ('81) and bounced straight back up, on attendances a little lower than ours back then. And have since managed another 17 seasons at the top, and one below the level we are at now. How the fate of Norwich (a "bumpkin" like us club with very similar crowds, and so funds) and ourselves could diverge so spectacularly over the past 40 years I never quite fully understand. We really have been poorly run and led. Until now, I want to say (but the scars from decades of rubbish and incompetence remind me that this could be folly). I hope so. We deserve it; a bit of what the likes of Norwich have had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, BobbyC said: Geof is currently going through a rough time.He's on dialysis and has recently had a heart attack.....A great player in his day. That's terrible news and here's hoping he's on the road to recovery. First up he was a terrific defender, very versatile and often called upon to fill in to accommodate others in the squad who were less adaptable. His commitment didn't diminish even when the joint deal for him and Richie to Arsenal failed to materialise. Unlike Bryan he was the local lad, real deal who knew how to defend even though he wasn't the tallest. Age caught up with him somewhat prematurely, hence for a bloke of his talents to pack it in when he did was unusual. I know he made the occasional return to The Gate in recent seasons and it was truly sad he and City parted as they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzos Only Goal Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Loon plage said: If the 8 had pursued City as per Sol Campbell at Pompey they would have had to joined a queue of creditors because the club would have gone under and probably received nothing. That was the basis of the PFA's advice to the 8, and why they tore up their contracts in return for part of what they were entitled to. A decision I fully understand and respect, but it was for the benefit of themselves and their families and not any love for the club - and who can blame them. I have to agree with this, every time I see an Ashton Gate 8 post it makes me cringe a little, yes what they did saved the club in part, but they didn't have much choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 18 hours ago, Davefevs said: Think they got spooked by the Gary Collier transfer and went too far the other way. You're correct, GC was the reasoning behind the long contracts. But as BTRFTG posted; the players were not snapped up by other clubs, so were presumably not thought much of by anyone other than City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 52 minutes ago, BobbyC said: Geof is currently going through a rough time.He's on dialysis and has recently had a heart attack.....A great player in his day. I am truly sorry to hear that. 'Sir' Geoff was one of my favourites growing up with City - he was one of many I watched in that wonderful youth team - and I hope things go well for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 I wonder how many on here or any other footballers playing in the league will rip up a lucrative contract to save the club!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 48 minutes ago, Greatgraham said: I wonder how many on here or any other footballers playing in the league will rip up a lucrative contract to save the club!? If a contract is lucrative then the club to which it is party will not be at risk. Contracts that are annulled (mutually or otherwise,) are usually ones that are, or might soon be, unenforceable (aka worthless.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHIPLEY RED Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 7 hours ago, Loon plage said: If the 8 had pursued City as per Sol Campbell at Pompey they would have had to joined a queue of creditors because the club would have gone under and probably received nothing. That was the basis of the PFA's advice to the 8, and why they tore up their contracts in return for part of what they were entitled to. A decision I fully understand and respect, but it was for the benefit of themselves and their families and not any love for the club - and who can blame them. Over time the facts about what actually happened get hazy and legends or villains are made. With AG 8 I'm not sure what they are but as players they brought a great deal of pleasure to me as a young boy watching Div 1 football (not so pleasurable the slump following relegation - but I look back with rose tinted glasses. I could well be wrong but isn't there special rules around football clubs where players are behind HMRC and the banks in the order creditors are paid. Isn't that why Sol Campball got his money when others didn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 21 hours ago, BTRFTG said: Good point, well made and often overlooked through rose tinted glasses. Most were mid 30s plus but Marshall was supposedly a young talent (he wasn't.) Doubtless someone has the stats but I'd be amazed if the 8 of them amassed 50 league games between them during the remainder of their careers. People also forget that the 8 received something like 1/3rd of that owed them in compensation (peanuts in comparison to today's follies but not an inconsiderable sum early 80s and certainly no excuse for the bankruptcy claims that followed.) ...’most were mid 30s plus’... They weren’t that old....Merrick was 30, Sweeney 36, Rodgers 29, Aitken, 27, Garland 32, Tainton 33, Mann 29, Marshall 24.... Only one of them was ‘mid 30s plus’ ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said: ...’most were mid 30s plus’... They weren’t that old....Merrick was 30, Sweeney 36, Rodgers 29, Aitken, 27, Garland 32, Tainton 33, Mann 29, Marshall 24.... Only one of them was ‘mid 30s plus’ ... Did you play with Peter Aitken? I only played against him in that re-union match. Played with Tainton several times though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Did you play with Peter Aitken? I only played against him in that re-union match. Played with Tainton several times though. Played a whole season with Aitken....he was class...I played against Tom Ritchie, Gary Marshall, Steve Phillips, Gerry Sweeney, Alan Walsh, Howard Pritchard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 19 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: ...’most were mid 30s plus’... They weren’t that old....Merrick was 30, Sweeney 36, Rodgers 29, Aitken, 27, Garland 32, Tainton 33, Mann 29, Marshall 24.... Only one of them was ‘mid 30s plus’ ... I stand corrected (players seemed so much older in my youth,) but few of them were spring chickens and Marshall aside the rest were looking at one last, mostly brief, roll of the dice. Which beggars the question why they struggled to find alternate employment and further strengthens the argument that City, having given them their registrations, haven't as much to answer for as some might claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 I was there during those times, and the Club was very close to folding completely, and we owe the 8 a lot for their sacrifice. Not forgetting the new directors, Cooper and the coaching staff, the playing staff (Very small squad), and us supporters who stuck with the Club in the darkest days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Greatgraham said: I wonder how many on here or any other footballers playing in the league will rip up a lucrative contract to save the club!? The reality is that, If they'd continued demanding their wages, as per their contracts, they would have ended up with very little. Most creditors agreed to 20p in the pound, so that's all they were likely to get for employment past, not future employment, as there would have been no employer. As has been stated, very few of those eight players continued to play league football after their contracts were ended. None of them continued playing at any level for very long, others set up in business with their pay offs. Ask yourself what would you do if your firm was going under, take a pay off and extras from a testimonial game, with the chance of earning another contract at another club (if you were wanted), or force the closure of that firm and get diddly squat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Dazzler Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 10 hours ago, Loon plage said: I personally don't buy into all this "eight men had a dream" nonsense. They had lucrative contracts as top flight footballers, yet these same players appeared incapable of performing at two divisions lower. They tore up their contracts because the PFA told then thats the best deal they would get. The real heroes are those you mention. You are spot on. The 8 players were bleeding the club dry and yet they were on the verge of achieving a 3rd successive relegation because of their awful performances and results. That was one of the 1st things that the administrators realised and knew that if they could get these players off the payroll they would have a chance to restructure the finances. Although 6 of these players had been part of the legendary side that started the promotion push in the early 70s, carried it off in 1975/76 and gave us 4 seasons (3 of them very successful in as much they dramatically avoided relegation and then had 2 brilliant seasons of consolidation), by 1982 they were all washed up and their employment at the club was not sustainable. As previously mentioned by many they had Hobson's choice anyway and by taking redundancy they got the best deal for themselves, none of them had any saleable value and in most cases their careers petered out. All the players that were assets had already been sold (Gow, Ritchie, Whitehead, Mabbutt, Fitzpatrick, Moller etc) and the club were ordered to give Mick Harford back to Newcastle as we hadn't paid the transfer fee. The players that were not asked to leave were youth players such as Rob Newman, Jon Economou, Wayne Bray, Paul Stevens, Russell Musker etc, goalkeeper John Shaw, who presumably had already taken a pay cut, and Terry Boyle and 1 or 2 others that were not costing a fortune and may have had some saleable value. But the idea that they "had a dream to save our football team" is an absolute joke. Anyone who ever saw Julian Marshall play would realise this. If the "dream" was to play so badly that they would have their bloated contracts paid up in full and then move on to a club that would pay them an average 3rd Division wage (which obviously was not the case!) then it badly backfired! If this forum had existed in 1982 it would have been in meltdown every day due to the way these players (6 of whom had previously been regular players in the top flight) were performing. I know that some of them (notably Geoff Merrick and Chis Garland) had long standing injury issues and it obviously didn't help that they were no longer playing alongside the likes of Norman Hunter, Whitehead, Gow and Royle to name a few, and the whole club was on a downward spiral. And it wasn't their fault that they were on ludicrous money and lengthy contracts. It was a horrendous time for the club for many reasons. I also think that the media we mainly relied on at the time, the local and national press and local TV and Radio, sort of portrayed them as hard-done footballers who were forced to tear up their contracts by the nasty heartless football club. But the crazy notion that these 8 were heroes because they "saved" our club needs to be banished forever. Yes, 6 of them were fantastic players for us over a 5 to 8 year period in the 70s, who can forget the 2 goals Chris Garland scored against Liverpool to set up the fantastic 2-2 away game at Coventry, and I was on here only a few weeks ago banging on about how good a partnership Dave Rodgers forged with Norman Hunter in 1978/79. But, in the dark days of 1982, great visionary footballers with "a dream to save our team"? No, just no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 16 hours ago, New Dazzler said: You are spot on. The 8 players were bleeding the club dry and yet they were on the verge of achieving a 3rd successive relegation because of their awful performances and results. That was one of the 1st things that the administrators realised and knew that if they could get these players off the payroll they would have a chance to restructure the finances. Although 6 of these players had been part of the legendary side that started the promotion push in the early 70s, carried it off in 1975/76 and gave us 4 seasons (3 of them very successful in as much they dramatically avoided relegation and then had 2 brilliant seasons of consolidation), by 1982 they were all washed up and their employment at the club was not sustainable. As previously mentioned by many they had Hobson's choice anyway and by taking redundancy they got the best deal for themselves, none of them had any saleable value and in most cases their careers petered out. All the players that were assets had already been sold (Gow, Ritchie, Whitehead, Mabbutt, Fitzpatrick, Moller etc) and the club were ordered to give Mick Harford back to Newcastle as we hadn't paid the transfer fee. The players that were not asked to leave were youth players such as Rob Newman, Jon Economou, Wayne Bray, Paul Stevens, Russell Musker etc, goalkeeper John Shaw, who presumably had already taken a pay cut, and Terry Boyle and 1 or 2 others that were not costing a fortune and may have had some saleable value. But the idea that they "had a dream to save our football team" is an absolute joke. Anyone who ever saw Julian Marshall play would realise this. If the "dream" was to play so badly that they would have their bloated contracts paid up in full and then move on to a club that would pay them an average 3rd Division wage (which obviously was not the case!) then it badly backfired! If this forum had existed in 1982 it would have been in meltdown every day due to the way these players (6 of whom had previously been regular players in the top flight) were performing. I know that some of them (notably Geoff Merrick and Chis Garland) had long standing injury issues and it obviously didn't help that they were no longer playing alongside the likes of Norman Hunter, Whitehead, Gow and Royle to name a few, and the whole club was on a downward spiral. And it wasn't their fault that they were on ludicrous money and lengthy contracts. It was a horrendous time for the club for many reasons. I also think that the media we mainly relied on at the time, the local and national press and local TV and Radio, sort of portrayed them as hard-done footballers who were forced to tear up their contracts by the nasty heartless football club. But the crazy notion that these 8 were heroes because they "saved" our club needs to be banished forever. Yes, 6 of them were fantastic players for us over a 5 to 8 year period in the 70s, who can forget the 2 goals Chris Garland scored against Liverpool to set up the fantastic 2-2 away game at Coventry, and I was on here only a few weeks ago banging on about how good a partnership Dave Rodgers forged with Norman Hunter in 1978/79. But, in the dark days of 1982, great visionary footballers with "a dream to save our team"? No, just no! Wow, just wow, uiu ungrateful ******. All these men did was sign a contract put in front of them, no devious tricks or stunts just signed what was offered, lucrative? Nit by today's standards in fact in reality I doubt it was anymore than those who had good jobs at the time! For the record Geoff Merrick used to o borrow my dad's car to go training in when he was an apprentice that's what shit money they were on then before getting in the first team . I can only assume history clouds your thinking or you weren't around d in those dark days. A dream no more like a nightmare to those concerned and directly impacted by it. None of the 8 had jobs to go to and most are still trying to work now! Be thankful for what we have and never darken or insinuate that they did well out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 16 hours ago, New Dazzler said: You are spot on. The 8 players were bleeding the club dry and yet they were on the verge of achieving a 3rd successive relegation because of their awful performances and results. That was one of the 1st things that the administrators realised and knew that if they could get these players off the payroll they would have a chance to restructure the finances. Although 6 of these players had been part of the legendary side that started the promotion push in the early 70s, carried it off in 1975/76 and gave us 4 seasons (3 of them very successful in as much they dramatically avoided relegation and then had 2 brilliant seasons of consolidation), by 1982 they were all washed up and their employment at the club was not sustainable. As previously mentioned by many they had Hobson's choice anyway and by taking redundancy they got the best deal for themselves, none of them had any saleable value and in most cases their careers petered out. All the players that were assets had already been sold (Gow, Ritchie, Whitehead, Mabbutt, Fitzpatrick, Moller etc) and the club were ordered to give Mick Harford back to Newcastle as we hadn't paid the transfer fee. The players that were not asked to leave were youth players such as Rob Newman, Jon Economou, Wayne Bray, Paul Stevens, Russell Musker etc, goalkeeper John Shaw, who presumably had already taken a pay cut, and Terry Boyle and 1 or 2 others that were not costing a fortune and may have had some saleable value. But the idea that they "had a dream to save our football team" is an absolute joke. Anyone who ever saw Julian Marshall play would realise this. If the "dream" was to play so badly that they would have their bloated contracts paid up in full and then move on to a club that would pay them an average 3rd Division wage (which obviously was not the case!) then it badly backfired! If this forum had existed in 1982 it would have been in meltdown every day due to the way these players (6 of whom had previously been regular players in the top flight) were performing. I know that some of them (notably Geoff Merrick and Chis Garland) had long standing injury issues and it obviously didn't help that they were no longer playing alongside the likes of Norman Hunter, Whitehead, Gow and Royle to name a few, and the whole club was on a downward spiral. And it wasn't their fault that they were on ludicrous money and lengthy contracts. It was a horrendous time for the club for many reasons. I also think that the media we mainly relied on at the time, the local and national press and local TV and Radio, sort of portrayed them as hard-done footballers who were forced to tear up their contracts by the nasty heartless football club. But the crazy notion that these 8 were heroes because they "saved" our club needs to be banished forever. Yes, 6 of them were fantastic players for us over a 5 to 8 year period in the 70s, who can forget the 2 goals Chris Garland scored against Liverpool to set up the fantastic 2-2 away game at Coventry, and I was on here only a few weeks ago banging on about how good a partnership Dave Rodgers forged with Norman Hunter in 1978/79. But, in the dark days of 1982, great visionary footballers with "a dream to save our team"? No, just no! Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 40 minutes ago, frenchred said: Wow, just wow, uiu ungrateful ******. All these men did was sign a contract put in front of them, no devious tricks or stunts just signed what was offered, lucrative? Nit by today's standards in fact in reality I doubt it was anymore than those who had good jobs at the time! For the record Geoff Merrick used to o borrow my dad's car to go training in when he was an apprentice that's what shit money they were on then before getting in the first team . I can only assume history clouds your thinking or you weren't around d in those dark days. A dream no more like a nightmare to those concerned and directly impacted by it. None of the 8 had jobs to go to and most are still trying to work now! Be thankful for what we have and never darken or insinuate that they did well out of it Not sure why the name calling of New Dazzler fella, this is just an exchange of views on a subject where possibly the majority of City fans now weren't around at the time. Despite your assertions, City players were on lucrative contracts far in excess of the average man or woman in the street, and I can recall an article in the People or News of the World which actually showed that City was amongst the best players in the late 70's with an average of c £250 pw when the average man/woman earned about £65.. Nobody is blaming them for signing the contracts offered to them, but the fact was that we slid down the leagues with these players with the majority of them fit to play whilst on top flight wages and that their options were to tear up their contracts and get something, or refuse, let the club go under and probably get less.The PFA told then to do the former, not out of any love for Bristol City, but because that was the best deal for their members. The fact Geoff borrowed your old man's car when he was a 17 year old means jackshit with respect.because all apprentices earned next to nothing in whatever trade they were involved in, and he certainly wasn't an apprentice in 1976 when a first division player of stature. Most fit professional footballers who lose their contracts don't have jobs to go to either of course and hundreds find themselves in that situation every season including plenty of our own over the years. I don't believe people are calling them money grabbing charlatans, but neither are they 8 men who had a dream to save our football team. That's my view, I am not a ****** whatever that is, I just have a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Loon Plage calls it right. The 8's contracts were worth circa £290k when annulled, for which they received in the region of £100k. With an average wage of around £7k per annum that's the best part of two years salary each. Not life changing, but not exactly minimum redundancy. City players at the time were earning probably three times average earnings, not fortunes but also not the sort of territory that automatically leads to bankruptcy, as some later claimed. So whilst the song is as daft and fictional as most others (Luton isn't a small town in Asia and if it really was a library you wouldn't be signing, would you) it's issue is those for whom the song is their sole experience incorrectly accord the 8 a benevolent, heroic status. Those who sing it give little thought to those who bought shares, the boardroom idiots who brought us low or the reason the benefit game wasn't that well attended (many supporters thought the 8 were being unreasonable.) Sad story, but City owe the 8 nothing and they've really nothing to be bitter about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Let's change the song, then, to: "Two men had a dream, to save our football team...." and thereby salute Ken Sage and Deryn Coller. Or do we make it three, and chuck in Des Williams too? And what about Lester himself, Sir Les Kew, still going now (and paying to watch, to boot)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Or, 8 men, 7 men, 6 men, 5 men, 4 men, three men.....Two men 'ad a dream, to save our football team, tear up all they contracts and start again....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: Let's change the song, then, to: "Two men had a dream, to save our football team...." and thereby salute Ken Sage and Deryn Coller. Or do we make it three, and chuck in Des Williams too? And what about Lester himself, Sir Les Kew, still going now (and paying to watch, to boot)? Seriously, Les is still going? Saviour Solicitor.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calculus Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, BTRFTG said: Seriously, Les is still going? Saviour Solicitor.... Yup, sits in the Dolman. You can usually see him on the concourse having a beer and a pasty before the game. Don't think he was ever a solicitor though - building trade and much else, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original OTIB Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 https://democracy.bathnes.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=267 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, BTRFTG said: Seriously, Les is still going? Saviour Solicitor.... Goes to the gym with my dad every week (my dad had a heart bypass a few years back, so does a bit of exercise at the gym each week). Always makes me think of the film Tough Guys with Kirk Douglas and Bert Lancaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Davefevs said: Goes to the gym with my dad every week (my dad had a heart bypass a few years back, so does a bit of exercise at the gym each week). Always makes me think of the film Tough Guys with Kirk Douglas and Bert Lancaster. How old would Les have been in 82 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 25 minutes ago, Calculus said: Yup, sits in the Dolman. You can usually see him on the concourse having a beer and a pasty before the game. Don't think he was ever a solicitor though - building trade and much else, I think. Oh, for some reason I always thought he had a legal background prior to moving into politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, BTRFTG said: Oh, for some reason I always thought he had a legal background prior to moving into politics. Stephen Kew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, Loon plage said: How old would Les have been in 82 ? I think he’s in his early 80s, my dad is late 70s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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