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Emiliano Sala


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2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Yes I do

I think the identity of the one found is irrelevant

 

and to think otherwise , I have to say a very bizarre , and discourteous , thought or belief

I thought the search was only called off due to the adverse weather conditions?

But would say as it was Sala's side that were privately funding this latest search, maybe more to it than the weather?

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13 minutes ago, phantom said:

I thought the search was only called off due to the adverse weather conditions?

But would say as it was Sala's side that were privately funding this latest search, maybe more to it than the weather?

The Air Investigation have ownership now Phants and did so once the plane was located and confirmed

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From a Cardiff Fan

There’s some belters about !

 

 

Wolfpac wrote

:I think it's disgraceful that Nantes expect us to shell out £15 mill fee when NEITHER of us are able to benefit from it, they've lost their star striker, we haven't gained the lad, even stevens not meaning to sound disrespectful but I am in agreement, until everything has been resolved we should not pay a penny.
 

 

:blink:

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3 hours ago, phantom said:

I thought the search was only called off due to the adverse weather conditions?

But would say as it was Sala's side that were privately funding this latest search, maybe more to it than the weather?

Exactly, the official search was called off a week or so ago the latest search was being run by Sala's family so they've achieved their objective, you wouldn't expect them to look for the pilot

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6 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Yes I do

I think the identity of the one found is irrelevant

 

and to think otherwise , I have to say a very bizarre , and discourteous , thought or belief

It's a tough one and can see both sides of it. Hearing the news today, I think the way the media has reported it saying Sala has been found and the search has been ended is very insensitive and misleading (to not give a more balanced view as to why). I can also fully appreciate that if the pilot wasn't there what more could the rescuers do - especially as the conditions have deteriorated. 

I think what has been clear throughout though is that the media reporting of this whole tragic event has clearly biased towards Sala as a more important victim. A life is a life to me and both should have been treated - and reported on - equally (unfortunately this feels more normal these days with media reporting).

Sadly, the media have sensationalised this and focused on Sala even to the extent to subconsciously imply he was the only victim and his life was more valuable at times.

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2 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

Exactly, the official search was called off a week or so ago the latest search was being run by Sala's family so they've achieved their objective, you wouldn't expect them to look for the pilot

I thought there was a fund set up and in the first few days over £300k was raised - could be wrong though.

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4 hours ago, bristolcitysweden said:

Humanity is a pity THis will paqn down to £ and we will all be embarrassed. 

Maybe football ‘needed’ something like this - bear with me, I know how disgusting that sounds. 

Beautiful game; is it f. We have migrant workers dying, treated worse than farmyard animals in Qatar to deliver a World Cup whilst during those months that country will sell its morals (as immoral as they are...); we have a FIFA corruption scandal buried as soon as the scapegoat (Blatter) went but doesn’t tackle incompetence at the whole organisation; and here you have W Mckay, couldn’t be arsed to sit exams so masquerades behind his son, but is so prevalent in transfers clearly - a wheeler dealer - the FA turn a blind eye at best; or simply acquiesce. 

It is a disgusting game, perhaps gone too far to the corrupt, with associations national and international struggling to curtail the money beast they created, offering a Lourdes for the corrupt’s cash. 

A death in Ghana of a journalist exposing the dirt in the game scantily reported  

I dare say W McKay will be the fall guy here rather than actually sort out the disgrace this industry has become; not that ill cry for him. 

I would love for the police to stop looking to criminalise fans and look at what actually is going on at the top of the game. 

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On 07/02/2019 at 10:12, sephjnr said:

"It was wrecked" would have been slightly better wording in this case - the tense of what you wrote inferred blame.

No, you looked for a reason to be pedantic. I purposely chose not to use the word "wrecked" and "totalled" is a completely justified choice of words.

20190208_235938.jpg

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5 hours ago, TBW said:

No, you looked for a reason to be pedantic. I purposely chose not to use the word "wrecked" and "totalled" is a completely justified choice of words.

"THEY" is what I have a complaint with. you said "THEY wrecked it". If you want pedantry. be pedantic about every word.

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4 hours ago, sephjnr said:

"THEY" is what I have a complaint with. you said "THEY wrecked it". If you want pedantry. be pedantic about every word.

And as I've said, replace that with something like "it was totalled" instead if you want. It doesn't really change the aim of the point I was trying to get across and in no way did it l seem to say anything like I thought Cardiff were "involved". You're just causing issue to be a cock. 

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On 08/02/2019 at 15:17, CHIPLEY RED said:

I may be cynical but on this I have to disagree with you.

Anyway, to be arguing over this or anything else surrounding the death of 2 people is as you rightly say discourteous and probably upsetting for those involved directly.

Where would they even have started to look?? 

Course it would have been called off. Needle in a huge haystack springs to mind. It's an impossible job sadly 

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17 minutes ago, Milan djurichimovic said:

Big headed, arrogant  and not the sort of person to care about the English pilot, obviously that's just going off of how he goes about himself on the pitch which obviously isnt enough to judge someone properly

 

 

Think he donates the amount he gets for representing France to charity, or at least he did for the world cup which was around $500,000

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An inquest opened and adjourned into his death today in Dorset heard how a post-mortem confirmed Sala died from "head and trunk" injuries.

The hearing was told he had to be identified using his fingerprints after investigators discovered his body on the seabed of the English Channel on February 4.

The inquest was adjourned until November 6 for a pre-inquest review.

A full report by the Air Accident Investigation Branch will not be published for six to 12 months, but an interim report is due within a fortnight.

Ian Parry, a senior coroner's officer for Dorset, said: "Mr Sala was identified on the 7th February by means of fingerprint evidence analyses by fingerprint expert Christopher Bradbury.

"A post mortem was carried out after the body was taken to Holly Tree Lodge mortuary.

"Home office pathologist Mr Purdue gave the cause of death as 1a head and trunk injuries."

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Just saw this on the BBC website - it's not the full article, I've just cut and pasted the relevant bits:

Chairman Mehmet Dalman says Cardiff will be "honourable" with Nantes over the £15m transfer for Emiliano Sala and has defended withholding a payment.

Dalman confirmed the French club are threatening legal action, but they are seeking "clarification" on the issue.

Confirming the Nantes action, Dalman said: "Of course, if we are contractually obliged to pay them then of course we will. We are an honourable club.

"But if we are not - and there are some anomalies in that - then surely you would expect me as the chairman and guardian of this club's interests to look into that and hold our position. That is what we are doing.

"We are still in the process of gathering information and that process will be ongoing. And when we reach a level where we have enough information, I am sure we will sit down with Nantes and move forward."

Dalman says Cardiff are looking to get a full picture of events.

"They [Nantes] have asked for what they believe is the money due to them and there is a process and they have initiated that process," he added.

"What we are saying is, that we are not in agreement with that process given the extraordinary events that have taken place and the tragic circumstances. We are not making any positive or negative statements.

"We are simply saying, please understand there are a lot of questions which need to be answered and that is what we are trying to do.

 

It is a difficult situation, given the tragedy that occurred, but I am not quite sure what to make of Cardiff's actions over the transfer fee. Firstly, it was Cardiff that released to the media that Nantes had "demanded" the first instalment of the transfer fee, making Nantes to look like they were being insensitive in the matter.

Now it sounds as if Cardiff have been stalling while they "gather information", which I take to be looking for a legal way to wriggle out of paying a fee for the player they can never now benefit from.

Had Sala still been with us, I presume that they would have by now paid the first instalment that fell due under the "process' to which there Chairman refers. If so then the only way not to have to pay would be some sort of contractual clause, but I cannot see any club having a sale contract giving the buying club the ability to walk away from financial liability should the player die post sale,leaving them with no player and no transfer fee.

I hope Cardiff's actions don't call into question  their honourable status. 

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7 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Just saw this on the BBC website - it's not the full article, I've just cut and pasted the relevant bits:

Chairman Mehmet Dalman says Cardiff will be "honourable" with Nantes over the £15m transfer for Emiliano Sala and has defended withholding a payment.

Dalman confirmed the French club are threatening legal action, but they are seeking "clarification" on the issue.

Confirming the Nantes action, Dalman said: "Of course, if we are contractually obliged to pay them then of course we will. We are an honourable club.

"But if we are not - and there are some anomalies in that - then surely you would expect me as the chairman and guardian of this club's interests to look into that and hold our position. That is what we are doing.

"We are still in the process of gathering information and that process will be ongoing. And when we reach a level where we have enough information, I am sure we will sit down with Nantes and move forward."

Dalman says Cardiff are looking to get a full picture of events.

"They [Nantes] have asked for what they believe is the money due to them and there is a process and they have initiated that process," he added.

"What we are saying is, that we are not in agreement with that process given the extraordinary events that have taken place and the tragic circumstances. We are not making any positive or negative statements.

"We are simply saying, please understand there are a lot of questions which need to be answered and that is what we are trying to do.

 

It is a difficult situation, given the tragedy that occurred, but I am not quite sure what to make of Cardiff's actions over the transfer fee. Firstly, it was Cardiff that released to the media that Nantes had "demanded" the first instalment of the transfer fee, making Nantes to look like they were being insensitive in the matter.

Now it sounds as if Cardiff have been stalling while they "gather information", which I take to be looking for a legal way to wriggle out of paying a fee for the player they can never now benefit from.

Had Sala still been with us, I presume that they would have by now paid the first instalment that fell due under the "process' to which there Chairman refers. If so then the only way not to have to pay would be some sort of contractual clause, but I cannot see any club having a sale contract giving the buying club the ability to walk away from financial liability should the player die post sale,leaving them with no player and no transfer fee.

I hope Cardiff's actions don't call into question  their honourable status. 

I don’t get under what circumstances they wouldn’t have to pay?

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26 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Just saw this on the BBC website - it's not the full article, I've just cut and pasted the relevant bits:

Chairman Mehmet Dalman says Cardiff will be "honourable" with Nantes over the £15m transfer for Emiliano Sala and has defended withholding a payment.

Dalman confirmed the French club are threatening legal action, but they are seeking "clarification" on the issue.

Confirming the Nantes action, Dalman said: "Of course, if we are contractually obliged to pay them then of course we will. We are an honourable club.

"But if we are not - and there are some anomalies in that - then surely you would expect me as the chairman and guardian of this club's interests to look into that and hold our position. That is what we are doing.

"We are still in the process of gathering information and that process will be ongoing. And when we reach a level where we have enough information, I am sure we will sit down with Nantes and move forward."

Dalman says Cardiff are looking to get a full picture of events.

"They [Nantes] have asked for what they believe is the money due to them and there is a process and they have initiated that process," he added.

"What we are saying is, that we are not in agreement with that process given the extraordinary events that have taken place and the tragic circumstances. We are not making any positive or negative statements.

"We are simply saying, please understand there are a lot of questions which need to be answered and that is what we are trying to do.

 

It is a difficult situation, given the tragedy that occurred, but I am not quite sure what to make of Cardiff's actions over the transfer fee. Firstly, it was Cardiff that released to the media that Nantes had "demanded" the first instalment of the transfer fee, making Nantes to look like they were being insensitive in the matter.

Now it sounds as if Cardiff have been stalling while they "gather information", which I take to be looking for a legal way to wriggle out of paying a fee for the player they can never now benefit from.

Had Sala still been with us, I presume that they would have by now paid the first instalment that fell due under the "process' to which there Chairman refers. If so then the only way not to have to pay would be some sort of contractual clause, but I cannot see any club having a sale contract giving the buying club the ability to walk away from financial liability should the player die post sale,leaving them with no player and no transfer fee.

I hope Cardiff's actions don't call into question  their honourable status. 

Dalman is the Chairman of a public company.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00109065/officers

He has to ensure that any payments are made in conjunction with rules and regulations, not particularly palatable in a case like this, but he could be in trouble if he did not take due diligence in this matter.

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9 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Dalman is the Chairman of a public company.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00109065/officers

He has to ensure that any payments are made in conjunction with rules and regulations, not particularly palatable in a case like this, but he could be in trouble if he did not take due diligence in this matter.

Have no problem with that at all, but why didn't he/theysay so back when Cardiff released details to the media  of  Nantes' "demand" for the first instalment?

I would have thought an "honourable" club would have contacted Nantes discretely and advised them of the Chairmen's obligations, with Cardiff being a public company, being the cause for delay, instead of releasing the details to the media, which then made Nantes look like they were being insensitive and the bad guys.

Presumably Cardiff had the sale contract checked by their solicitor, so wouldn't have thought it would take too long for their solicitor to say if their were any "anomalies" in the contract i.e. get out clauses, they could use to avoid paying.

To my knowledge, Nantes have made no comment in the media regarding payment, other than in response to Cardiff releasing details of their demand. In the circumstances I would have thought it would have been better for all concerned had the financial issues been resolved privately between the clubs - whatever the outcome. As it is, it is starting to sound crass and money grabbing, which goes against the grain given the tragedy.

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One can only surmise, but a contract will have a commencement date regardless of when it was signed by all parties, and if one element of the "arrangement" was no longer available at the commencement date of the contract then it could very well be unenforceable.

Not saying that is the case here, but the due dilligence Maesknoll Red refers to would presumably demand that every aspect of the deal was examined.

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/02/17/cardiff-city-may-sue-nantes-negligence-pilot-emiliano-sala-crash/

Looks like Cardiff are now looking at ways of getting out of paying the transfer fee now, all very ironic given the criticism they have Nantes for starting legal action to get their first instalment 

All getting very nasty and no sides here are coming out with any credit 

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This was in the Mail on Sunday.

Cardiff City have contacted other Premier League clubs in an attempt to establish whether there may be grounds to avoid paying the full £15million transfer fee being demanded by Nantes for Emiliano Sala, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

Letters sent in the past few days by lawyers acting for the club request help in ‘fighting off Nantes’ legal claim’, according to one source. They ask clubs for assistance in ‘sharing your knowledge of Sala as a player’. 

The correspondence from a Cardiff law firm describes Sala as ‘the player that Cardiff tried to sign’, phrasing which makes it clear that the club believe they may not have to pay all — or indeed any — of the record transfer fee.

Details of the letters — which Cardiff on Saturday confirmed were sent — emerged as manager Neil Warnock and chief executive Ken Choo arrived in Argentina for the player’s wake and funeral.

The Mail on Sunday can reveal that Cardiff’s decision to approach Premier League clubs publicly linked with Sala is partly motivated by transfer broker Willie McKay’s admission in an email to the striker that he had sought to artificially inflate the price. McKay told Sala he had told the media of rival interest ‘just to stimulate interest in you’.

The club are seeking to establish whether there was indeed any interest at all from other clubs. McKay’s email to Sala listed Everton and West Ham as clubs he had linked the player to, though Crystal Palace, Fulham, Burnley and Wolves were also reported to be keen.

The Mail on Sunday revealed two weeks ago that one club had been publicly linked to Sala simply on the basis of a text message being sent signalling the player’s availability.

A second club was bemused to receive the letter from Cardiff’s lawyers suggesting they had also been linked. ‘This simply isn’t true in our case,’ said a source. ‘We never had an interest in Sala. We didn’t even watch him play.’

But Sala is by no means the first player to have been transferred after being artificially linked with other clubs. This is one of the oldest tricks in the wheeler-dealer world of player acquisition. It is difficult to see how Cardiff can possibly cite this practice to avoid paying the first £5m tranche of the fee they had agreed with Nantes for the player.

Cardiff have said they will ‘do the right thing’ but have indicated they ‘first want full facts disclosed about what happened and the involvement of agents with Nantes in the deal’.

The number of brokers involved in the deal is also understood to have concerned them. Some at the top of the club only became aware of the number taking a cut after The Mail on Sunday report which listed them. Cardiff want to establish what part each of those individuals played.

It is ironic that having released details of Nantes' "demand" for the first instalment of the transfer fee, which they (Cardiff) described as insensitive, Cardiff now seem to be on a fishing expedition looking for any and every way by which they can avoid paying what is due.

In addition to contacting other clubs as to whether they were approached about buying Salah, other articles suggest that Cardiff are looking to sue Nantes for negligence, the involvement of agents or to argue that the transfer was not completed as the players registration was not with the premier  league.

When the tragedy occurred,  everyone felt great sympathy with the club for the way they conducted themselves. As the story unfolds,  it increasingly feels that they are callously trying every way to avoid paying what I suspect is their legal/contractual obligation, only because the asset they were happy to buy inconveniently and tragically got himself killed - a greater measure of insensitivity it is difficult to imagine.

All of this while Warnock was attending the funeral!

 

 

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2 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

It would be great to expose the shenanigans of the agents. surely there are rules for inflating the price of something or someone? I would hope Cardiff pay what is due but the agents end up with nothing.

If there was one good thing to come out of this terrible thing it would be the uncovering of dubious agent practices, practices that both clubs and players are responsible for allowing.

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If there was one good thing to come out of this terrible thing it would be the uncovering of dubious agent practices, practices that both clubs and players are responsible for allowing.

 

2 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

It would be great to expose the shenanigans of the agents. surely there are rules for inflating the price of something or someone? I would hope Cardiff pay what is due but the agents end up with nothing.

Agree absolutely and as I commented below, hope this might break the "Emperor's new clothes" attitude that football seems to have towards agents and their activities.

On 08/02/2019 at 11:51, downendcity said:

The email exchanges seem to confirm what  many of us have long suspected, i.e. that many agents have little or no scruples, are prepared to employ underhand and devious tactics - sometimes at the player's expense - with the sole aim of making and extracting as much money from football.

That Cardiff were to have paid a total of £30m, of which only £15m actually went to Nantes, makes this only the latest in any number of transfers where the slice of the fee disappearing to people who seem have done very little to justify their remuneration needs to be looked at, and action taken to better regulate agents in general, but the make up and distribution of transfer fees in particular.

A fundamental fact that I struggle grasp, is how a player's agent is remunerated by a club! If I employ an estate agent to sell my house, I don;t expect the purchaser to pay the agent's fee, so why does this seem to happen in football. In this case, it seems that McKay has "cold called" Sala, suggesting that he ( McKay) has created a market, by making false claims in the market place and as a result came up with the deal Cardiff. If McKay approached Cardiff to try and broker a deal to sell them Sala, why would Cardiff be expected to pay his, or any other agents' fees?

It seems to me that there is a lot of things around players wages, agents involvement and the like that is a bit like the Emperor's new clothes. All of us know it is ludicrous, but no one in the game dealing with these issues either recognises it, or is prepared to do anything about it.

 

When agents are taking as much from a  deal as the transfer fee paid fort the player then the lunatics really are running the assylum!

 

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