Emiliano Sala

[RumRed]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

They are more likely to sue for breach of contract.

 

I’m not sure I understand.  He was Cardiff’s player therefore what has anything got to do with his old club?  Genuine question.

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, RumRed said:

I’m not sure I understand.  He was Cardiff’s player therefore what has anything got to do with his old club?  Genuine question.

I think Dave means Nantes suing Cardiff for breach of contract if they don’t make the payment

[RumRed]

6 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think Dave means Nantes suing Cardiff for breach of contract if they don’t make the payment

Ta, well yes. Nantes are right to expect payment. The travel plans and insurance details are up to Cardiff.  Nantes should have the contract fulfilled.  

Quite horrible they haven’t to be honest, just do the decent thing and honour the contract so this doesn’t blow out of all proportion.

More important things than multimillion pound clubs reneging on deals.

Edited February 6, 2019 by RumRed

[reddoh]

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That is Mrs F’s View too (ex-Insurance Underwriter).

Plane registered in USA private pilot under US laws not licensed to carry paying passengers but now we enter the confusion zone as I have read and understand Sala didn't pay, agent did but was not a passenger does that pass US laws? but think whether I am right or wrong it is very sad for pilot and Sala. 

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think Dave means Nantes suing Cardiff for breach of contract if they don’t make the payment

@RumRed, yes, as Silvio says above.

[Gazred]

Just catching up on the latest on this.

Where are your morals at Nantes? Demanding the first payment. That is absolutely disgraceful.

Now reading they have just recovered the yet unidentified body from the plane wreckage.

What a tragic and sorry state of affairs this is.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Gazred

[Guest]

Cardiff announced him as officially their player. They bought him. But for that transfer this difficult circumstance would not arise. 

I didn't like Cardiff' s response one little bit to be honest. 'We are checking paperwork', that to anyone smells of 'any way out of the fee?'. Don't forget if Cardiff are out of that they are also perhaps out of in service payments to his estate. That's quite distasteful. 

I am not surprised Nantes asserting their position, although, I think it's more than likely been lost in translation and less aggressive. But... if i wad at nantes and cardiff said we will pay we are just checking paperwork i would probably be so bullish.

If Nantes have transferred the player, as callous as it sounds, they have transferred risk,  bit like Vokes, Elokobi, Velicka  Dani Rodrigues, signing here and becoming injured, none of us would be impressed if the club said 'checking paperwork' before honouring commitments. That a ball was kicked or otherwise changes nothing. If Nantes transferred the player, they probably have no insurance of their own as they 'sold' the player and ceased to have an insurable interest, if any cover existed. 

As for insurance, there are plenty of examples of clubs threatening to sue National FAs or other players where where their own players have suffered injury. Why would you do that if insurance was in place as the insurer would be entitled to those proceeds as underwriting the risk- it's called subrogation - because of those examples, I just don't believe insurance is that prevalent, although I could be wrong. 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Guest

[TBW]

6 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Agreed. I don’t think anybody would disagree that the transfer fee needs to be sorted out but do it after the funeral and behind the scenes. Playing it out now and in this manner is not cool

Why? Businesses have to keep running and interest on £5m is a fair bit I'd imagine. Yes it's a sad time but they're well within their rights to request the money agreed.

Cardiff saying they'd "check the paperwork" first is bullshit too. If I said that after I'd bought a house and refused the first mortgage payment to review paperwork I'm not sure it'd go down well.

[CliftonCliff]

I think one has to draw a clear distinction between sentiment on the one hand and the hard reality of the business legalities on the other. They are quite separate things and it doesn’t seem appropriate to me to criticise Nantes on moral grounds for simply requesting payment of fees due to them. As someone has said, media reports using the term “demand “ in this context will tend to have a distorting effect on how this issue is perceived, which isn’t helpful.

This has been a terrible tragedy and just like everyone else on OTIB I feel very sad about it, but if, as seems overwhelmingly likely, Sala was legally Cardiff’s asset at the time of his death (again, please forgive the terminology) then they must pay any money owing. People at Nantes have been just as devastated on a human level as everyone has and I’d be very surprised if their handling of the business details was not conducted in a sensitive way, as opposed to the aggressive stance implied by press reports.

 

[RedM]

On 05/02/2019 at 13:52, PHILINFRANCE said:

Thank You @elhombrecito: I am relieved.

So, it would seem that it is @TomF who has the 'wonderful technique', @RedM being limited to a 'glitch'.

I actually have no knowledge of this, maybe I do have powers and abilities I’m yet to discover 

[Major Isewater]

7 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

I think one has to draw a clear distinction between sentiment on the one hand and the hard reality of the business legalities on the other. They are quite separate things and it doesn’t seem appropriate to me to criticise Nantes on moral grounds for simply requesting payment of fees due to them. As someone has said, media reports using the term “demand “ in this context will tend to have a distorting effect on how this issue is perceived, which isn’t helpful.

This has been a terrible tragedy and just like everyone else on OTIB I feel very sad about it, but if, as seems overwhelmingly likely, Sala was legally Cardiff’s asset at the time of his death (again, please forgive the terminology) then they must pay any money owing. People at Nantes have been just as devastated on a human level as everyone has and I’d be very surprised if their handling of the business details was not conducted in a sensitive way, as opposed to the aggressive stance implied by press reports.

 

Add into the equation a large percentage  ( 50% sell on  quoted ) of the transfer fee is owed by Nantes to Bordeaux , budgets have been drawn up on monies due and  Cardiff must pay.

It is a tragic situation  but if Cardiff are the owners of Sala’s contract then they are the ones who have lost , not only a promising footballer but equally the 15 million they owe for his services .

They may have insurance, they may sue the plane company ,who knows?

 but what  shouldn’t happen is the two French clubs get penalised financially in addition to the human loss they have suffered.

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

23 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Add into the equation a large percentage  ( 50% sell on  quoted ) of the transfer fee is owed by Nantes to Bordeaux , budgets have been drawn up on monies due and  Cardiff must pay.

It is a tragic situation  but if Cardiff are the owners of Sala’s contract then they are the ones who have lost , not only a promising footballer but equally the 15 million they owe for his services .

They may have insurance, they may sue the plane company ,who knows?

 but what  shouldn’t happen is the two French clubs get penalised financially in addition to the human loss they have suffered.

 

Bordeaux state they havnt made any noises about aby fee owed

The first payment of £5 million was due to be paid by Cardiff on 26th January

[phantom]

1 hour ago, TomF said:

I think its fine to deal with it - but perhaps not wash all the details into the public domain when they've not even found/identified the body yet. 

It'll probably be worse if its the pilot they've found..

That's yet another horrible twist to this sad event, that only one body has been found

Not sure if only short term but stated this morning there will be no attempt to recover the plane

[handsofclay]

I don't know if the £15M fee quoted included add ons which obviously would now mean that the fee Cardiff have to pay is less than that, but still a substantial sum. As others have stated, he is Cardiff's player, if contracts were signed etc then it doesn't matter if he plays for them for 1 match, 100 matches, 20 minutes, 1 minute or no minutes whatsoever. Cardiff bought his contract.

Cardiff are losing face with this 'check the paperwork' stance. There were emotional scenes at their stadium at the last home game. Thus, they have identified Sala as being their player. Had Sala died on his way to signing the contract and was still a Nantes player at the time of passing, Cardiff would have passed on heartfelt condolences but the grief would all have been at Nantes end. 

We paid £55,000 to Millwall for Dean Horrix which was a fair bit for us back in 1990, but at no stage did I hear anything from our end hinting that we would like a chunk of it back due to him only playing 3 games for us. 

 

[Super]

8 minutes ago, handsofclay said:

I don't know if the £15M fee quoted included add ons which obviously would now mean that the fee Cardiff have to pay is less than that, but still a substantial sum. As others have stated, he is Cardiff's player, if contracts were signed etc then it doesn't matter if he plays for them for 1 match, 100 matches, 20 minutes, 1 minute or no minutes whatsoever. Cardiff bought his contract.

Cardiff are losing face with this 'check the paperwork' stance. There were emotional scenes at their stadium at the last home game. Thus, they have identified Sala as being their player. Had Sala died on his way to signing the contract and was still a Nantes player at the time of passing, Cardiff would have passed on heartfelt condolences but the grief would all have been at Nantes end. 

We paid £55,000 to Millwall for Dean Horrix which was a fair bit for us back in 1990, but at no stage did I hear anything from our end hinting that we would like a chunk of it back due to him only playing 3 games for us. 

 

In fairness to Cardiff I haven't heard anything from them about refusing to pay unless I have missed it.

[simon uk]

All of this situation is awful, but i agree with others on here. Cardiff bought out his contract, i cant see any way that they are not responsible for the fee agreed, albeit add ons for goals etc wont obviously apply.

whether they have insurance to pay for it/ will take legal action against the plane owners to recover losses is another matter

[BigTone]

6 minutes ago, Super said:

In fairness to Cardiff I haven't heard anything from them about refusing to pay unless I have missed it.

They said they were checking the paperwork 

[Leveller]

9 minutes ago, Super said:

In fairness to Cardiff I haven't heard anything from them about refusing to pay unless I have missed it.

If it was due on 26 January, why hasn’t it been paid? The selling club shouldn’t need to ask.

[Super]

22 minutes ago, Leveller said:

If it was due on 26 January, why hasn’t it been paid? The selling club shouldn’t need to ask.

I get your point and Cardiff should pay up without doubt and have said they will, but something about the demanding of money doesn't sit well with me.

[TETBURY MASSIVE]

4 minutes ago, Super said:

I get your point and Cardiff should pay up without doubt and have said they will, but something about the demanding of money doesn't sit well with me.

I reckon they are as guilty as each other, Cardiff withholding is as bad as Nantes demanding. 

Either way no one looks good in a sorry situation.

[reddogkev]

R.I.P Emiliano, you will be missed by all football fans.  My thoughts remain with family and friends.

The payment of his fee to Nantes feels irrelevant to me.

[LondonBristolian]

39 minutes ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

I reckon they are as guilty as each other, Cardiff withholding is as bad as Nantes demanding. 

Either way no one looks good in a sorry situation.

In all honesty, I think this sort of dispute was inevitable in such strange circumstances. My issue is primarily with whoever decided to leak this so it played out in the media. It's not inappropriate and unnecessarily for Sala's family and friends, and indeed Nantes and Cardiff fans, to have this played out so publicly. Any disagreement and discussion should have been kept between the clubs.

 

[Bristol Rob]

Where did this 'demand' story originate?

Clearly the club would know that it wouldn't make them look good if they went public with a demand for payment, so I would be surprised if they leaked the news.

Chances are, it's just two accounts departments having a conversation and someone has seen the chance to exploit the reasonable request for the first instalment to be made for personal gain.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

48 minutes ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

I reckon they are as guilty as each other, Cardiff withholding is as bad as Nantes demanding. 

Either way no one looks good in a sorry situation.

I doubt it was a case of the demanding of money.  It's clear how Nantes as a club have been affected by this sad event, and I would think that they above everyone would understand the sensitivity.  However, life does go on, and business is business, though I doubt it was as insensitive as the media are suggesting.

[Major Isewater]

3 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Bordeaux state they havnt made any noises about aby fee owed

The first payment of £5 million was due to be paid by Cardiff on 26th January

That doesn’t mean they’re writing it off .

[Major Isewater]

52 minutes ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

I reckon they are as guilty as each other, Cardiff withholding is as bad as Nantes demanding. 

Either way no one looks good in a sorry situation.

Don’t get bogged down with the word ‘ demand ‘ in France it is just the word for a bill .

 I doubt they are creating a fuss about it but merely to underline that in spite of everything they anticipate what is due .

[Bar BS3]

11 hours ago, Gazred said:

Just catching up on the latest on this.

Where are your morals at Nantes? Demanding the first payment. That is absolutely disgraceful.

Now reading they have just recovered the yet unidentified body from the plane wreckage.

What a tragic and sorry state of affairs this is.

As tragic as this is, Nantes are entitled to their transfer fee. It’s not their fault. 

To be honest, they shouldn’t have to be asking for it..! It’s poor on Cardiff’s part, imo. 

Puuting emotions to one side, surely Cardiff would have had him (and all players) insured..? Or is the insurance invalidated by using unregisterd aircraft and their dodgy deals..? 

A tragic event, that should never have happened and you wouldn’t wish on anyone. But it has happened and Cardiff owe Nantes the transfer fee. 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Bar BS3

[BobBobSuperBob]

Cardiff now refusing to pay anything whilst there is an investigation going on ....

dear oh dear

Lets hope they don’t have the same attitude to anything due to Salas family

[Gazred]

14 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

As tragic as this is, Nantes are entitled to their transfer fee. It’s not their fault. 

To be honest, they shouldn’t have to be asking for it..! It’s poor on Cardiff’s part, imo. 

Puuting emotions to one side, surely Cardiff would have had him (and all players) insured..? Or is the insurance invalidated by using unregisterd aircraft and their dodgy deals..? 

A tragic event, that should never have happened and you wouldn’t wish on anyone. But it has happened and Cardiff owe Nantes the transfer fee. 

Absolutely i agree but none of this side of it should be in the public domain IMO. The famlies and loved ones involved could well do with out it i'd imagine.

[The Joker]

I am reading this morning that a body recovered from the plane has been taken to Portland Dorset, no mention regarding the second body, has it been found or even seen in the wreckage.