alexukhc Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 His gf seems to think the mafia are involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chowie Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 BBC seem to be in the area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 23, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 31 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Speculation online that the pilot was vastly experienced with 100+ single engine channel crossings. What I can’t fathom is why not fly commercial. At night in the middle of winter, it just seems such an unnecessary risk. You can fly through AMS and be in Cardiff in 4 hours. Possibly there were no flights back to Cardiff from Southern France? He was returning to say his immediate farewells etc before coming back to Cardiff ready for training the next morning, so time was key and flying this way it would be more flexible 12 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said: I haven’t read everything that’s been written on this aspect of the story, so apologies if this has already been covered, but I’m not clear whether this was a flight being provided by a properly registered and regulated commercial operator, albeit on a private charter basis, or just an arrangement with some bloke with a private pilot’s licence and a single engined plane. Thing is this flight had probably been done thousands of times before and will be thousands of times again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Spike said: This genuinely makes me feel sick, I hate flying, the idea of getting on a plane that looks like it's going to fall apart and then doesn't start, no way I would have got on it. What I don't understand is why he got on it, surely after making a big money transfer he would have been in a position to say "I don't feel comfortable getting on that plane!". That said, I suppose it's easy to say that with hindsight. I just can't imagine what his father must be thinking right now. Unfortunately, machismo kicks in. With the Munich Air Crash it was stated afterwards that many on board were apprehensive about boarding the plane a third time after two aborted takeoffs in the snow, yet nobody said that they refuse to get on board. Had someone done so there's a good chance others would've followed the lead. Sometimes the bravest thing of all is to be the first to admit that you are too scared to do something and thus refuse to do it. Similar machismo kicked in with the deaths in plane crashes of music stars Buddy Holly, The Big Bopper and Richie Valens in 1959 and Otis Redding and the Barkays in 1967. In the latter case, they boarded Redding's private aircraft and, according to the only survivor, were apprehensive when the pilot said that the battery was low but hoped there was enough juice in it (in freezing cold weather) to get them from Cleveland, Ohio to Madison, Wisconsin! Indeed, the heating in the plane couldnt be turned on for this reason. Yet, they all boarded without a whimper. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 23, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Seems the search area has moved Southerly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Wonder why the pilot hasn't been named yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 23, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Super said: Wonder why the pilot hasn't been named yet? Very true, things like this normally come out in the news fairly quickly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Watching BBC news now. Hopes fading as we knew, still searching. UK involved as plane was coming here but also have to coordinate with France as that’s where the plane took off and Argentina as he was Argentinian. Also said the plane was UK owned but registered in the US so liaising with them too. Very complicated. A flight plan would have to have been submitted so looking at that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TETBURY MASSIVE Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, Super said: Wonder why the pilot hasn't been named yet? https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8261010/emiliano-sala-plane-pilot-revealed-brit-dave-ibbotson/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeepUpLino Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 23 minutes ago, handsofclay said: Unfortunately, machismo kicks in. With the Munich Air Crash it was stated afterwards that many on board were apprehensive about boarding the plane a third time after two aborted takeoffs in the snow, yet nobody said that they refuse to get on board. Had someone done so there's a good chance others would've followed the lead. Sometimes the bravest thing of all is to be the first to admit that you are too scared to do something and thus refuse to do it. Similar machismo kicked in with the deaths in plane crashes of music stars Buddy Holly, The Big Bopper and Richie Valens in 1959 and Otis Redding and the Barkays in 1967. In the latter case, they boarded Redding's private aircraft and, according to the only survivor, were apprehensive when the pilot said that the battery was low but hoped there was enough juice in it (in freezing cold weather) to get them from Cleveland, Ohio to Madison, Wisconsin! Indeed, the heating in the plane couldnt be turned on for this reason. Yet, they all boarded without a whimper. Surely there’s another word that better suits that feeling of just going along with something? We recently had it on a Ryanair flight That aborted takeoff at the last minute, we were all shaken up and worried yet only one bloke was openly freaking out about taking off again an hour later... I can tell you there was nothing macho about saying nothing, you just naturally go along with what’s happening and don’t want to panic others.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 37 minutes ago, phantom said: Very true, things like this normally come out in the news fairly quickly Some newspapers thought they had named the pilot yesterday. Then someone who appears to be the named pilot posted on social media clarifying he was still alive and so there has been confusion. I think papers are now holding back because of the confusion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Sky News Breaking @SkyNewsBreak Channel Islands Air Search says the operation to find a missing plane carrying Cardiff City footballer Emiliano Sala has become a recovery operation as officials confirmed they will decide later today whether to continue looking for the pair. Edited January 23, 2019 by Super Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chowie Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 An eerie video on BBC about the dangers of flying small Aircraft, the Aircraft he talks through is the actual one they are looking for N264DB https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine-34492176/my-life-as-a-ferry-pilot 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, chowie said: An eerie video on BBC about the dangers of flying small Aircraft, the Aircraft he talks through is the actual one they are looking for N264DB https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine-34492176/my-life-as-a-ferry-pilot Worth stressing this is actually the chap who was named yesterday who now appears to have clarified on Facebook that he is alive. The papers are now giving a different name - Dave Ibbotson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 The Times is reporting that the plane belonged to Willie Mackay the Scottish football agent https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/s...ckay-28h7k8vc8 Emiliano Sala was travelling on a plane believed to belong to Scottish agent Willie McKay when he disappeared over the English Channel. The Argentine forward, who became Cardiff City’s record signing after joining the club from Nantes in a £15 million transfer last week, is feared dead after his light aircraft disappeared from radar screens, although a search has resumed this morning. Sala was travelling in a Piper PA-46 Malibu aircraft, a single-engine, six-seat plane, with the pilot the only other passenger on board as he made the journey back to Cardiff on Monday evening after returning to Nantes to say goodbye to his former team-mates. The plane is registered to a holding company in Suffolk called Southern Aircraft Consultancy, with a registration number N264DB, but is believed to be owned by McKay, an influential and experienced agent. McKay is not Sala’s representative, but was involved in brokering the transfer between Cardiff and Nantes and appears to have offered to arrange the player’s travel arrangements. The plane has yet to be found, but there is no suggestion that it suffered a technical fault or was unsuitable for making such a journey. McKay has excellent contacts clubs in the south of France in particular and has brought many French and African players to the Premier League over the years. McKay had not responded to The Times at the time of publication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, handsofclay said: Unfortunately, machismo kicks in. With the Munich Air Crash it was stated afterwards that many on board were apprehensive about boarding the plane a third time after two aborted takeoffs in the snow, yet nobody said that they refuse to get on board. Had someone done so there's a good chance others would've followed the lead. Sometimes the bravest thing of all is to be the first to admit that you are too scared to do something and thus refuse to do it. Similar machismo kicked in with the deaths in plane crashes of music stars Buddy Holly, The Big Bopper and Richie Valens in 1959 and Otis Redding and the Barkays in 1967. In the latter case, they boarded Redding's private aircraft and, according to the only survivor, were apprehensive when the pilot said that the battery was low but hoped there was enough juice in it (in freezing cold weather) to get them from Cleveland, Ohio to Madison, Wisconsin! Indeed, the heating in the plane couldnt be turned on for this reason. Yet, they all boarded without a whimper. As @KeepUpLino said I don't think it's machismo; it's more about continuing with regular activities despite the warning signs. I've never refused to board a plane, and I've never had any reason not to, but to stand up and refuse to board a plane because it's been having trouble would seem odd. Maybe it's past experience overriding the current situation. A better word would maybe be "habit". I'm not entirely compliant, for instance I flat refuse to drive in snow; to the point where I would rather lose my job rather than drive in it. This stems from the very rational view (IMO) that the last time I drove in snow I crashed because of the snow so I'm not doing it again. Planes though: there are loads of safety rules and preflight checks these days, you're on with a vastly experienced pilot who knows the risks and is as much in danger as you are if things go wrong. Essentially you're trusting the pilot rather than the plane. 1959 was an awfully long time ago and rules were much slacker. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: The Times is reporting that the plane belonged to Willie Mackay the Scottish football agent That rings a bell, wasn't he Ade Akinbiyi's agent when we sold him? Not to change the tone of the thread, which of course is deeply sympathetic and remorseful, I am struck by these continued reports of a distraught dad talking to media in Argentina. I would imagine he would want to be as close as possible to the operation, even if he is helpless to do anything more, not fielding impossible questions from the other side of the world - I wonder what all these agents and dealmakers are doing to make that happen? Not suggesting they are not, but it doesn't seem to have happened, and yet they all obviously fell over themselves to take their cut of Sala's transfer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 23, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 48 minutes ago, chowie said: An eerie video on BBC about the dangers of flying small Aircraft, the Aircraft he talks through is the actual one they are looking for N264DB https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine-34492176/my-life-as-a-ferry-pilot Very eye opening @chowie My ex brother in law used to fly Mick Hucknall around Europe in one of those, he often said it was the additional ££ on offer was the only reason he did the work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, chowie said: An eerie video on BBC about the dangers of flying small Aircraft, the Aircraft he talks through is the actual one they are looking for N264DB https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine-34492176/my-life-as-a-ferry-pilot Thanks for posting that. Disturbingly relevant, as you say. The particularly unnerving thing about it was his reference to the ten or a dozen experienced small aircraft pilots known to him personally who have died as a result of baffling and inexplicable errors. Statistically rare, I know, but still doesn't fill you with confidence. I know next to nothing about commercial flying and am happy to be corrected by anybody who is better informed, but common sense tells you that in this situation you are in the hands of a single individual, not a Captain and First Officer/Flight Engineer or whatever, so if he makes an error, falls ill (been known), or something similar, there is no back up, no one to take over, spot the problem early or rectify it, and much more limited equipment, compared with the highly computerised systems on modern passenger planes, to assist when technical problems occur or a mistake is made. As it happens, I have a near neighbour who happens to be a BA captain on long-haul routes and by a coincidence my wife and I are seeing him and his misses later for a drink. Like a lot of them, he is ex-RAF (fast jets), so there isn't much he hasn't experienced when it comes to flying. I'll be very interested to get his take on what's happened here. Edited January 23, 2019 by CliftonCliff Error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Quote from pilots forum "It is understood Mr Ibbotson, had been hired along with the Norfolk-registered single engine plane, by Sala’s representatives to fly the player to Cardiff after he had said his farewells to team-mates at his old club Nantes. Mr Ibbotson, who worked as a gas engineer based in Crowle, is believed to have had extensive experience carrying parachute enthusiasts on flights from private airfields. One picture shows him him at the controls of a light aircraft in a selfie with a parachute jumper." Ideal chap to be flying a complex single at night, IFR in dodgy icing conditions. Sala's reps and the owner of the aircraft have some serious questions to answer if this is true. After 30 years as a professional pilot with all the checks you have to pass along the way I can't believe that such stupidity is still going on. And organisations like Wingly, Grant Shaps red tape challenge and the supine attitude of the CAA have done nothing to enhance safety. I am so angry at the death of Mr Sala. Save a few quid, probably break any number of laws, kill someone. What a disgusting waste of life and talent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, Super said: Quote from pilots forum "It is understood Mr Ibbotson, had been hired along with the Norfolk-registered single engine plane, by Sala’s representatives to fly the player to Cardiff after he had said his farewells to team-mates at his old club Nantes. Mr Ibbotson, who worked as a gas engineer based in Crowle, is believed to have had extensive experience carrying parachute enthusiasts on flights from private airfields. One picture shows him him at the controls of a light aircraft in a selfie with a parachute jumper." Ideal chap to be flying a complex single at night, IFR in dodgy icing conditions. Sala's reps and the owner of the aircraft have some serious questions to answer if this is true. After 30 years as a professional pilot with all the checks you have to pass along the way I can't believe that such stupidity is still going on. And organisations like Wingly, Grant Shaps red tape challenge and the supine attitude of the CAA have done nothing to enhance safety. I am so angry at the death of Mr Sala. Save a few quid, probably break any number of laws, kill someone. What a disgusting waste of life and talent. I can't make out from your post whether the entire post is from the pilots' forum or just the first secton within the quotation marks, i.e. are the second and third paragraphs your comments or from the forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: I can't make out from your post whether the entire post is from the pilots' forum or just the first secton within the quotation marks, i.e. are the second and third paragraphs your comments or from the forum? It's all from the forum. post 160 Edited January 23, 2019 by Super Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owl Visiting Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 59 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said: As it happens, I have a near neighbour who happens to be a BA captain on long-haul routes and by a coincidence my wife and I are seeing him and his misses later for a drink. Like a lot of them, he is ex-RAF (fast jets), so there isn't much he hasn't experienced when it comes to flying. I'll be very interested to get his take on what's happened here. Lad who I went to school with did the same, he was captaining these massive things in the RAF at 26 and now flies Boeing 787 Dreamliners for BA. Must earn a fortune. We always knew he'd go on to do well, really clever, popular, captain of the school football team etc etc. Talented sod. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Owl Visiting said: Lad who I went to school with did the same, he was captaining these massive things in the RAF at 26 and now flies Boeing 787 Dreamliners for BA. Must earn a fortune. We always knew he'd go on to do well, really clever, popular, captain of the school football team etc etc. Talented sod. Wasn't called David Watts was he? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Dollymarie said: "I'm on a plane that looks like it's going to fall apart, and I'm leaving for Cardiff," Sala said in a WhatsApp audio message carried by Argentine media. "If in an hour and a half you have no news from me, I don't know if they will send people to look for me, because they will not find me, you know. Dad, I'm so scared," he added. Surely someone checks that planes are fit to fly? Begs the question why you would even get on it if it was that bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, Owl Visiting said: Lad who I went to school with did the same, he was captaining these massive things in the RAF at 26 and now flies Boeing 787 Dreamliners for BA. Must earn a fortune. We always knew he'd go on to do well, really clever, popular, captain of the school football team etc etc. Talented sod. Makes you sick doesn't it? I bet the sod was good lucking and got all the girls, too. The bloke I know is a bit like that. Small guy, quietly spoken, modest, unassuming and very level-headed, but he's done all this really impressive stuff. I suppose when you've accomplished all that you don't need to big yourself up - your achievements speak for themselves. You would trust him though: if you do have to jet halfway round the world at 30,000 feet and eye-watering speed in a glorified tin can, he's just the sort of bloke you'd want flying it. Not fair to draw unfavourable comparisons with the guy piloting the lost plane without knowing the full facts, of course, but you do wonder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owl Visiting Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said: Makes you sick doesn't it? I bet the sod was good lucking and got all the girls, too. The bloke I know is a bit like that. Small guy, quietly spoken, modest, unassuming and very level-headed, but he's done all this really impressive stuff. I suppose when you've accomplished all that you don't need to big yourself up - your achievements speak for themselves. You would trust him though: if you do have to jet halfway round the world at 30,000 feet and eye-watering speed in a glorified tin can, he's just the sort of bloke you'd want flying it. Not fair to draw unfavourable comparisons with the guy piloting the lost plane without knowing the full facts, of course, but you do wonder... Yep. A nice guy as well which almost makes it even more annoying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireSection Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 11 hours ago, Dollymarie said: "I'm on a plane that looks like it's going to fall apart, and I'm leaving for Cardiff," Sala said in a WhatsApp audio message carried by Argentine media. "If in an hour and a half you have no news from me, I don't know if they will send people to look for me, because they will not find me, you know. Dad, I'm so scared," he added. Surely someone checks that planes are fit to fly? Im stunned and disgusted, with all the money in football, the guy gets put on a plane that looks like its falling apart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 23, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Super said: Ideal chap to be flying a complex single at night, IFR in dodgy icing conditions. Sala's reps and the owner of the aircraft have some serious questions to answer if this is true. This really doesn't make sense to me, saying the pilot was ideal then the following sentence does not read correctly? I guess @PHILINFRANCEread it the same? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, phantom said: This really doesn't make sense to me, saying the pilot was ideal then the following sentence does not read correctly? I guess @PHILINFRANCEread it the same? Misplaced sarcasm I guess as the pilot has almost certainly lost his life but possibly better choices as pilot if those facebook posts are to be believed which were worrying. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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