Guest Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said: Overreaction? From you? Well what a surprise and so completely out of character. Be sure not to fall off that very high horse you’ve sat yourself upon. Wouldn’t want you to find something else to complain about. Do as I - he achieved what even robbored didn’t - IGNORE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 hours ago, BTRFTG said: If memory serves there was one conditional consent The Gas were beholden to deliver by a specific date but failed so to do. When the condition was later met Sainsburys (not The Gas) had the right to appeal the planning refusal but we're not obligated so to do. The Gas attempted to appeal but we're thwarted by Sainsburys who refused to cooperate. Although in the ruling it was implied Sainsburys' change in attitude ran contrary to the spirit of the contract it mattered not as The Gas had timed out and their prevarication was noted..... Quite. So some comments above are about ‘palming off’ and I think they are slightly off point. There could have been (at least) two types of contract in place here; (1) with the pilot to fly the plane - think like asking ‘Dave’ to build your brick wall, or (2) arrange the transportation of - think a travel agent. In (1), you’d expect in a contract like that to have a ‘palming off’ clause, an if I can’t I will provide another to provide the service. You’d want that as buyer to ensure the service is performed. But it would usually have a condition ‘of equal skill and competence’ in (2), he never committed to fly but acted like a high street agent to arrange it. My own opinion, there’s little controversy in someone else flying, and that doesn’t necessarily touch the McKays, it’s quite common in a contract for service - albeit aviation may be different; private jets are beyond me, but it’s almost certainly in any independent contractors agreement... it’s who they substituted with and the checks carried out which add controversy; and why a certain individual may be the culpable party. If the Agents contracted for a flight with substitution of someone of equal skill, why should they then vet the sub, that’s for the contractor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted June 22, 2019 Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 On 20/06/2019 at 22:32, BS4 on Tour... said: .....and I see from the ‘reactions’ you got that @BS3City and @EmissionImpossible support you joking about the deaths of two people in a dreadful incident - it says a lot ... For someone who all too frequently takes OTIB posters to task over perceived factual inaccuracies or their lack of precision in spelling, and grammar, you seem well prepared when it suits you, to make an entirely false statement and think that you can get away with it without challenge. Think again. At no time have I made a joke "about the deaths of two people in a dreadful incident" nor would I. Read again posts #616 to #620 above and tell me where I have referred to the victims or the incident in any way. Making a joke in a thread about the deaths of two people is entirely different to making a joke about their deaths. If you want to impugn my character then do so with veracity. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said: Read again posts #616 to #620 above and tell me where I have referred to the victims or the incident in any way.... You responded to a post about a 64 year old being arrested for manslaughter, in regard to the incident in which two people perished, with the comment “How old is Bailey Wright?” You obviously weren’t being serious about BW being the person who was arrested you were just jokingly implying that he gets blamed for things that aren’t his fault .... so you were joking about the incident in which two people lost their lives... yet you say above that you didn’t refer to the incident ‘in any way.’ I sincerely apologise if I’ve offended you, I just didn’t think it was appropriate to joke about anything to do with such a tragic accident ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: You responded to a post about a 64 year old being arrested for manslaughter, in regard to the incident in which two people perished, with the comment “How old is Bailey Wright?” You obviously weren’t being serious about BW being the person who was arrested you were just jokingly implying that he gets blamed for things that aren’t his fault .... so you were joking about the incident in which two people lost their lives... yet you say above that you didn’t refer to the incident ‘in any way.’ I sincerely apologise if I’ve offended you, I just didn’t think it was appropriate to joke about anything to do with such a tragic accident ... No, I wasn't. I was joking in a thread which is about the incident in which two people lost their lives NOT about the incident itself in which two people lost their lives. There is a fundamental and very clear difference between the two but anyway thank you for your apology which I'm happy to accept. The matter is now closed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 20 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said: No, I wasn't. I was joking in a thread which is about the incident in which two people lost their lives NOT about the incident itself in which two people lost their lives. There is a fundamental and very clear difference between the two but anyway thank you for your apology which I'm happy to accept. The matter is now closed. Cheers for accepting my apology - also happy to close the matter regarding the tragic accident. On another point, in your previous reply to me you referred to me correcting people’s spelling & grammar on here - it ain’t just me though, I’ve seen lots and lots on here doing exactly the same recently, including yourself ... some things aren’t too difficult to get right, especially in this modern age ... most of the ‘corrections’ are lighthearted though, including mine ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 On 30/03/2019 at 18:39, ScottishRed said: I wouldn’t expect this to be resolved anytime soon, which will not help the friends and families of the the two men that sadly lost their lives that evening. Agreed. One of the most open, if not the most, open countries in the world reporting every agonising detail that comes to light as far as friends and family are concerned; compare that to where the lad comes from; Argentina has a reputation for hiding the truth or suppressing it for as long as possible. The latter likely to be even more painful. In short, the news, of any kind, has to be aired however much it hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 8 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Cheers for accepting my apology - also happy to close the matter regarding the tragic accident. On another point, in your previous reply to me you referred to me correcting people’s spelling & grammar on here - it ain’t just me though, I’ve seen lots and lots on here doing exactly the same recently, including yourself ... some things aren’t too difficult to get right, especially in this modern age ... most of the ‘corrections’ are lighthearted though, including mine ... The " grammar police" must be allowed to continue, if only for those occasions when the corrector is taken to task for errors in his/her own posting - the biter bit! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 On 20/06/2019 at 07:10, Monkeh said: So would I and we should rightly be sanctioned if there were We? So if there are already a few dozen fans planning/determined to sing songs then we're already effectively sanctioned. If the club take all reasonable steps to prevent disorder then I'm not convinced it's ever right to punish the majority for the acts of a few. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49345186 Possible Carbon monoxide poisoning as a cause of the crash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiled Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 32 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49345186 Possible Carbon monoxide poisoning as a cause of the crash? That sounds highly significant. From memory, the weather was really awful that night so the pilot and passenger probably kept ventilation to a minimum. Any death is a tragedy but if the evidence identifies a problem that was avoidable, it must be even more heartbreaking for both families. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesM Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 It also means that they were both unconscious long before they crashed? A small crumb of comfort for their families in what is a terrible tragedy. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Londoner Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 Most of the theories so far have been of pilot error so in a strange way this would come as a small relief to the pilots family 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erithacus Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 Carbon Monoxide poisoning is a silent and seductive killer. It would be so easy for two occupants to slip into unconsciousness and be unable to control the aircraft thereafter. I hear Salo's family are demanding that the aircraft wreckage be brought up for proper examination. The AAIB would be onto that I assume unless there is a question over it being in French territorial waters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Xiled said: That sounds highly significant. From memory, the weather was really awful that night so the pilot and passenger probably kept ventilation to a minimum. Any death is a tragedy but if the evidence identifies a problem that was avoidable, it must be even more heartbreaking for both families. Suggests a significant fault with the aircraft tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red from afar Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 Many light aircraft get their hot air from running the ambient air around an exhaust shroud to heat it up before entering the cabin. The aircraft concerned had a similar system. Obviously, if there's a leak from the exhaust into the shroud, it mixes with the air and pumps straight into the cabin. Many pilots of light aircraft won't use the heating systems for this reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted August 14, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 54 minutes ago, Erithacus said: Carbon Monoxide poisoning is a silent and seductive killer. It would be so easy for two occupants to slip into unconsciousness and be unable to control the aircraft thereafter. I hear Salo's family are demanding that the aircraft wreckage be brought up for proper examination. The AAIB would be onto that I assume unless there is a question over it being in French territorial waters. The AAIB ruled out raising the wreckage of the plane on grounds of cost and it wouldn’t add much value to their investigation - maybe that thinking will have to be revisited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted August 14, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 51 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Suggests a significant fault with the aircraft tbh Probably more accurate would be a minor fault, but with significant and fatal consequences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said: Probably more accurate would be a minor fault, but with significant and fatal consequences. Yes - I’m no mechanic / engineer - but simply , carbon monoxide from the engines should never be getting into the plane interior exhaust or filter failure ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted August 14, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 Just now, BobBobSuperBob said: Yes - I’m no mechanic / engineer - but simply , carbon monoxide from the engines should never be getting into the plane interior exhaust or filter failure ? It happens, probably a gasket or seal leaking in the exhaust, then another seal, in the heater system or fire bulkhead leaking. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 Not wishing to bring this off topic re the CO story, nor wishing to be disrespectful to anyone, but what was the outcome of the financials surrounding this deal? Last I recall was that Cardiff were saying they wouldn’t pay. Is that still the case or have they paid up now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchay Red Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 9 hours ago, Harry said: Not wishing to bring this off topic re the CO story, nor wishing to be disrespectful to anyone, but what was the outcome of the financials surrounding this deal? Last I recall was that Cardiff were saying they wouldn’t pay. Is that still the case or have they paid up now? The last I read was that Cardiff were still in dispute with Nantes and were still querying the legality of the deal. I may be wrong but I haven't seen any reports of payments being made. I'm not sure if the bereaved family have received anything either. Tragic state of affairs from all perspectives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 I saw this on the BBC news just before going to bed last night and shed a tear at hearing his words on the plane, when he left a message to his dad saying he was scared. Will forever be such a terribly sad situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 It’s been stated in media coverage on numerous occasions that Ibbotson was not qualified to fly at night or to carry paying passengers. We now know in addition that the aircraft had a potentially lethal fault. So, neither plane nor pilot were fit for purpose. Yes, it is unbearably sad and made arguably more so now by this confirmation of what has long been suspected, that the flight should never have left the ground. As well as sadness there should also be anger at the illegality and level of irresponsibility involved. Whether anyone is held to account remains to be seen. I imagine tracing the lines of legal responsibility could be a very complex process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 21 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said: Probably more accurate would be a minor fault, but with significant and fatal consequences. I always used to get headaches and feel drowsy when I was driving a car I used to have and it turned out it was a slight crack in the exhaust manifold that was allowing exhaust gases/CO into the heating/ventilation system so I guess this could be the same sort of fault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted August 15, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said: I always used to get headaches and feel drowsy when I was driving a car I used to have and it turned out it was a slight crack in the exhaust manifold that was allowing exhaust gases/CO into the heating/ventilation system so I guess this could be the same sort of fault? Sound likely, it’s not unheard of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyredredrobin Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said: I always used to get headaches and feel drowsy when I was driving a car I used to have and it turned out it was a slight crack in the exhaust manifold that was allowing exhaust gases/CO into the heating/ventilation system so I guess this could be the same sort of fault? Nothing to do with the 5 pints of Thatchers you had beforehand then RRH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) See the FIFA ruling is now in and Cardiff have been ordered to pay £5.3m to Nantes for Sala. Seems a bit of a fudge - if he was their player, then surely full fee payable. If not, surely nothing. Be interested to see the logic in 1/3 of agreed fee being the decision Edited September 30, 2019 by Silvio Dante 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne allisons tongues Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said: See the FIFA ruling is now in and Cardiff have been ordered to pay £5.3m to Nantes for Sala. Seems a bit of a fudge - if he was their player, then surely full fee payable. If not, surely nothing. Be interested to see the logic in 1/3 of agreed fee being the decision I think that’s the first instalment of 3. Next one due Jan 2020 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said: I think that’s the first instalment of 3. Next one due Jan 2020 Yeah - it said in the report I read that Cardiff were a bit unclear if it was a one-off payment or a first installment but I would imagine they would ultimately need to pay everything except any parts of the fee that were contingent on performance or appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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