Jump to content
IGNORED

Emiliano Sala


Negan
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

I thought it might be Henderson but all other reports had him 60 not 64. Surprisingly though as the most guilty party is dead if its going down the route of unlicensed pilots.

Same, my first thought was Henderson yesterday but ruled it out as it looked like he was 60/61.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

I thought it might be Henderson but all other reports had him 60 not 64. Surprisingly though as the most guilty party is dead if its going down the route of unlicensed pilots.

I guess it’s going down the route of whether this pilot knowingly passed his ‘job’, to which he had a duty of care towards both the passengers and the person that hired him, to a person who wasn’t qualified to do so. 

Someone is to blame somewhere, even in an accident, but this could and should have be avoided. Wonder what was so important that he couldn’t fulfill the job, doubt it was so important now. I guess too they have to make sure this doesn’t happen again in the future, tighten up any loopholes.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, RedM said:

I guess it’s going down the route of whether this pilot knowingly passed his ‘job’, to which he had a duty of care towards both the passengers and the person that hired him, to a person who wasn’t qualified to do so. 

Someone is to blame somewhere, even in an accident, but this could and should have be avoided. Wonder what was so important that he couldn’t fulfill the job, doubt it was so important now. I guess too they have to make sure this doesn’t happen again in the future, tighten up any loopholes.

The thing I wondered is if this is the "norm" that pilots hand off work other people?

Guess if nothing had gone fatefully wrong this may have never come to light?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, phantom said:

The thing I wondered is if this is the "norm" that pilots hand off work other people?

Guess if nothing had gone fatefully wrong this may have never come to light?

Since the tragedy, I have seen comments from people with inside knowledge of the aviation world claiming that this sort of thing is not that uncommon, which is disturbing if true, though perhaps not entirely surprising. It’s not that hard to legislate against but, like many things, it may be a whole lot harder to monitor and enforce.

One wonders where the father and son football agents will stand in all this when the dust settles. Lots of newspaper reports at the time suggested a clear line of responsibility leading to them. I’m no lawyer, but even if, in moral terms, their fingerprints appear to be all over it, it seems doubtful that any criminality would stretch as far as them.

I’m pretty sure we have some legal people on the forum. I wonder what their take would be on this?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, phantom said:

The thing I wondered is if this is the "norm" that pilots hand off work other people?

Guess if nothing had gone fatefully wrong this may have never come to light?

I wondered this myself. 

@CliftonCliff, again I am wondering this too regarding the Agents. But if they can state they hired this pilot ( the one that has been arrested) in good faith on the belief and assurance he was qualified to transport their client and they had no idea it was going to be passed to a third party, then they are clear aren’t they? 

The law is really weird though at times, the onus might fall to the Agents to seek assurances such a thing wouldn’t happen, not merely assume as much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

2 minutes ago, RedM said:

I wondered this myself. 

@CliftonCliff, again I am wondering this too regarding the Agents. But if they can state they hired this pilot ( the one that has been arrested) in good faith on the belief and assurance he was qualified to transport their client and they had no idea it was going to be passed to a third party, then they are clear aren’t they? 

The law is really weird though at times, the onus might fall to the Agents to seek assurances such a thing wouldn’t happen, not merely assume as much.

What you state there, what if it was a taxi driver?

You call club cars, who send Darren a taxi driver who has shown them documentation for a Vauxhall Zafira with all the correct paperwork etc. When he turns up to pick you up, its not Darren but his mate who Darren has palmed the job off to who hasnt got a taxi licence or even insurance who's fault is that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

 

What you state there, what if it was a taxi driver?

You call club cars, who send Darren a taxi driver who has shown them documentation for a Vauxhall Zafira with all the correct paperwork etc. When he turns up to pick you up, its not Darren but his mate who Darren has palmed the job off to who hasnt got a taxi licence or even insurance who's fault is that?

I guess your contract is with Club Cars but it’s their responsibility not to let Darren palm off jobs he doesnt want to his mate. I understand your point. I guess it depends if you can prove they were aware he does this, but innocence isn’t always enough?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Not really a subject about which to joke? Each to their own I suppose ... at least you got a few ‘laugh’ reactions though - makes it all worthwhile ...

Overreaction? From you? Well what a surprise and so completely out of character. :noexp:

Be sure not to fall off that very high horse you’ve sat yourself upon. Wouldn’t want you to find something else to complain about. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Overreaction? From you? Well what a surprise and so completely out of character. :noexp:

Be sure not to fall off that very high horse you’ve sat yourself upon. Wouldn’t want you to find something else to complain about. 

No worries - you’re probably right. I just didn’t think joking about an incident, in which two people lost their lives, was very clever. I don’t think it was an overreaction. Anyway, happy to disagree.... apologies for obviously touching a nerve ... (...and you know nothing about my character)

Edited by BS4 on Tour...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26/03/2019 at 09:58, 29AR said:

Not quite I don't think, because that was a dispute about whether Sainsbury's had acted in accordance with the contract term requiring them to appeal adverse planning decisions.

If memory serves there was one conditional consent The Gas were beholden to deliver by a specific date but failed so to do. When the condition was later met Sainsburys (not The Gas) had the right to appeal the planning refusal but we're not obligated so to do. The Gas attempted to appeal but we're thwarted by Sainsburys who refused to cooperate. Although in the ruling it was implied Sainsburys' change in attitude ran contrary to the spirit of the contract it mattered not as The Gas had timed out and their prevarication was noted.....

Edited by BTRFTG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, phantom said:

Sala, 28, had just signed for Cardiff City for £15million

As much as I dislike Baadiff from the snippets I've read it could be that, owing to 'underhand' dealings both sides, that Sala's  'transfer' wasn't completed in accordance with UEFA regulation. I think Baadiff are playing the old trick of admitting to their minor indiscretion on the basis the more serious failing Nantes side means the 'transfer' was never formally registered (or ever could be - which of course would never had come to light had Sala lived.) Neither club come out of this with credit.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Overreaction? From you? Well what a surprise and so completely out of character. :noexp:

Be sure not to fall off that very high horse you’ve sat yourself upon. Wouldn’t want you to find something else to complain about. 

.....and I see from the ‘reactions’ you got that @BS3City and @EmissionImpossible support you joking about the deaths of two people in a dreadful incident - it says a lot ... 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Overreaction? From you? Well what a surprise and so completely out of character. :noexp:

Be sure not to fall off that very high horse you’ve sat yourself upon. Wouldn’t want you to find something else to complain about. 

Do as I - he achieved what even robbored didn’t - IGNORE 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

If memory serves there was one conditional consent The Gas were beholden to deliver by a specific date but failed so to do. When the condition was later met Sainsburys (not The Gas) had the right to appeal the planning refusal but we're not obligated so to do. The Gas attempted to appeal but we're thwarted by Sainsburys who refused to cooperate. Although in the ruling it was implied Sainsburys' change in attitude ran contrary to the spirit of the contract it mattered not as The Gas had timed out and their prevarication was noted.....

Quite. 

So some comments above are about ‘palming off’ and I think they are slightly off point. There could have been (at least) two types of contract in place here; (1) with the pilot to fly the plane - think like asking ‘Dave’ to build your brick wall, or (2) arrange the transportation of - think a travel agent. 

In (1), you’d expect in a contract like that to have a ‘palming off’ clause, an if I can’t I will provide another to provide the service. You’d want that as buyer to ensure the service is performed. But it would usually have a condition ‘of equal skill and competence’ 

in (2), he never committed to fly but acted like a high street agent to arrange it. 

My own opinion, there’s little controversy in someone else flying, and that doesn’t necessarily touch the McKays, it’s quite common in a contract for service - albeit aviation may be different; private jets are beyond me, but it’s almost certainly in any independent contractors agreement... it’s who they substituted with and the checks carried out which add controversy; and why a certain individual may be the culpable party. If the Agents contracted for a flight with substitution of someone of equal skill, why should they then vet the sub, that’s for the contractor. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 20/06/2019 at 22:32, BS4 on Tour... said:

.....and I see from the ‘reactions’ you got that @BS3City and @EmissionImpossible support you joking about the deaths of two people in a dreadful incident - it says a lot ... 

For someone who all too frequently takes OTIB posters to task over perceived factual inaccuracies or their lack of precision in spelling, and grammar, you seem well prepared when it suits you, to make an entirely false statement and think that you can get away with it without challenge. Think again.

At no time have I made a joke "about the deaths of two people in a dreadful incident" nor would I. Read again posts #616 to #620 above and tell me where I have referred to the victims or the incident in any way. Making a joke in a thread about the deaths of two people is entirely different to making a joke about their deaths.

If you want to impugn my character then do so with veracity.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Read again posts #616 to #620 above and tell me where I have referred to the victims or the incident in any way....

You responded to a post about a 64 year old being arrested for manslaughter, in regard to the incident in which two people perished, with the comment “How old is Bailey Wright?”

You obviously weren’t being serious about BW being the person who was arrested you were just jokingly implying that he gets blamed for things that aren’t his fault .... so you were joking about the incident in which two people lost their lives... yet you say above that you didn’t refer to the incident ‘in any way.’

I sincerely apologise if I’ve offended you, I just didn’t think it was appropriate to joke about anything to do with such a tragic accident ...

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

You responded to a post about a 64 year old being arrested for manslaughter, in regard to the incident in which two people perished, with the comment “How old is Bailey Wright?”

You obviously weren’t being serious about BW being the person who was arrested you were just jokingly implying that he gets blamed for things that aren’t his fault .... so you were joking about the incident in which two people lost their lives... yet you say above that you didn’t refer to the incident ‘in any way.’

I sincerely apologise if I’ve offended you, I just didn’t think it was appropriate to joke about anything to do with such a tragic accident ...

 

 

No, I wasn't. I was joking in a thread which is about the incident in which two people lost their lives NOT about the incident itself in which two people lost their lives. There is a fundamental and very clear difference between the two but anyway thank you for your apology which I'm happy to accept. The matter is now closed.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

No, I wasn't. I was joking in a thread which is about the incident in which two people lost their lives NOT about the incident itself in which two people lost their lives. There is a fundamental and very clear difference between the two but anyway thank you for your apology which I'm happy to accept. The matter is now closed.

Cheers for accepting my apology - also happy to close the matter regarding the tragic accident. 

On another point, in your previous reply to me you referred to me correcting people’s spelling & grammar on here - it ain’t just me though, I’ve seen lots and lots on here doing exactly the same recently, including yourself ... some things aren’t too difficult to get right, especially in this modern age ... most of the ‘corrections’ are lighthearted though, including mine ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 30/03/2019 at 18:39, ScottishRed said:

I wouldn’t expect this to be resolved anytime soon, which will not help the friends and families of the the two men that sadly lost their lives that evening.

Agreed. One of the most open, if not the most, open countries in the world reporting every agonising detail that comes to light  as far as friends and family are concerned; compare that to where the lad comes from; Argentina has a reputation for hiding the truth or suppressing it for as long as possible. The latter likely to be even more painful. In short, the news, of any kind, has to be aired however much it hurts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Cheers for accepting my apology - also happy to close the matter regarding the tragic accident. 

On another point, in your previous reply to me you referred to me correcting people’s spelling & grammar on here - it ain’t just me though, I’ve seen lots and lots on here doing exactly the same recently, including yourself ... some things aren’t too difficult to get right, especially in this modern age ... most of the ‘corrections’ are lighthearted though, including mine ...

The " grammar police" must be allowed to continue, if only for those occasions when the corrector is taken to task for errors in his/her own posting - the biter bit! 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 20/06/2019 at 07:10, Monkeh said:

So would I and we should rightly be sanctioned if there were

We? So if there are already a few dozen fans planning/determined to sing songs then we're already effectively sanctioned. 

If the club take all reasonable steps to prevent disorder then I'm not convinced it's ever right to punish the majority for the acts of a few. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49345186

Possible Carbon monoxide poisoning as a cause of the crash?

That sounds highly significant. From memory, the weather was really awful that night so the pilot and passenger probably kept ventilation to a minimum.

Any death is a tragedy but if the evidence identifies a problem that was avoidable, it must be even more heartbreaking for both families.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Carbon Monoxide poisoning is a silent and seductive killer. It would be so easy for two occupants to slip into unconsciousness and be unable to control the aircraft thereafter.

I hear Salo's family are demanding that the aircraft wreckage be brought up for proper examination. The AAIB would be onto that I assume unless there is a question over it being in French territorial waters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Xiled said:

That sounds highly significant. From memory, the weather was really awful that night so the pilot and passenger probably kept ventilation to a minimum.

Any death is a tragedy but if the evidence identifies a problem that was avoidable, it must be even more heartbreaking for both families.

Suggests a significant fault with the aircraft tbh 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many light aircraft get their hot air from running the ambient air around an exhaust shroud to heat it up before entering the cabin. The aircraft concerned had a similar system. Obviously, if there's a leak from the exhaust into the shroud, it mixes with the air and pumps straight into the cabin. Many pilots of light aircraft won't use the heating systems for this reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Erithacus said:

Carbon Monoxide poisoning is a silent and seductive killer. It would be so easy for two occupants to slip into unconsciousness and be unable to control the aircraft thereafter.

I hear Salo's family are demanding that the aircraft wreckage be brought up for proper examination. The AAIB would be onto that I assume unless there is a question over it being in French territorial waters.

The AAIB ruled out raising the wreckage of the plane on grounds of cost and it wouldn’t add much value to their investigation - maybe that thinking will have to be revisited.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • The title was changed to Emiliano Sala

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...