Millwall in trouble again

[BobBobSuperBob]

52 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Oh right - it didn’t happen before the game then?

In regards to Leeds why did 5 people get banned for the incident? 

I’ll ask .... again

Face smashed in ?

What relevance is it how many people got banned

You trying to exaggerate and then compare that with a serious wounding is Henbury Gas for sure

[Vil1]

We aint no angels .are fans have attacked coaches and away fans too it goes on im afraid.but knifes thats what you get in our capital city .do you not watch the news

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, archie andrews said:

the ding dong was before the game...….

Yes - Forgot it was a tea time ko Archie !

But it was at Surrey Quays , not in the process of attacking an pub etc 

Anyone not seeing the upping of intolerable behaviour when knives etc are used needs to give their head a wobble 

[archie andrews]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Yes - Forgot it was a tea time ko Archie !

But it was at Surrey Quays , not in the process of attacking an pub etc 

Anyone not seeing the upping of intolerable behaviour when knives etc are used needs to give their head a wobble 

that mob had just done the windows on a nearby boozer and theyre called county road cutters too....

[EmissionImpossible]

39 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Wasn’t referring to you because I don’t know anything about you. However there are a fair share of middle class white people who are always the most “up in arms” about what THEY consider to be racist or homophobic for example rather than listening to what someone who is perhaps black, Asian or gay considers to be abuse.

My son played in a game of football the other week where a black guy called a player of mixed heritage “lighty”. Banter or racism? Is it ok to use that term if you are black but wrong if you are white? Personally I wouldn’t use the term but if the guy called “lighty” doesn’t really mind or care is it wrong?

The Dictionary definition of racism is discriminating/abusing someone of a different race than yourself based on the conviction that your own race is superior.

That’s all I’m going to say on the matter.

[Rob k]

8 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’ll ask .... again

Face smashed in ?

What relevance is it how many people got banned

You trying to exaggerate and then compare that with a serious wounding is Henbury Gas for sure

Jesus Christ - he had cuts on his face, bruises, it’s a term ‘had his face smashed in’ as said there wasn’t too many condemning it as he bought it on himself. 

You have already proved you don’t know what your on about as you thought yesterday’s violence was after the game and theses lads were innocently on their way back to the station so let’s just drop it. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, Super said:

Lucky you didnt see the Sala thread on there.

Nothing particularly disrespectful or disgraceful? 

https://millwall-forum.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/the-missing-player.33756/

[hoxton casual]

4 hours ago, Super said:

They really are a scummy club though. Hate everything about them.

I think there a lot of decent Millwall fans, but the significant minority of thugs who are tolerated does make me wonder why the club is not closed down. Surely the real threat of violence at every game should mean they shouldn't be granted a safety certificate. I havent been for a while, but when I did go it really was like going into a war zone and children were doing the slit throat sign as we walked past. Unbelievable. Is it still like that? In contrast I have been away to Brum and Leeds recently, who have reputations, and i didnt see any trouble. Am I missing something?

[hoxton casual]

2 hours ago, EmissionImpossible said:

Assuming the people on here debating which words are racist etc, are generally white and no offence to any of you, but it’s not for you to decide what’s racist or isn’t.

Interesting point EI, and I assume your point is that is how the minorty feels about the language that makes it racist or not? Can only white people be racist, as we are the majority? I have known many minorities be racist about other minorities. Or is that not racist? It is a very complex subject with no easy answers. 

[BTRFTG]

5 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Deary me you surely aren’t getting offended when we sing x is a shithole or when other fans sing the same about Bristol.

I remember at Oldham fans at Boundary Park a few years back replying with “Oldham’s a shithole, we already know”. There’s a set of fans that don’t take themselves too seriously unlike yourself...

If you want to take things out of context up to you and you could couldn't be further from the truth, but answer me one thing - why sing it? Do you think it humerous, factual, ironic, provocative, for it sure as hell ain't any of those?

But as those who sing it are invariably straight off the CATS coaches, who stray no further than the police appointed pub, who've made little attempt to embrace or ingratiate themselves within an alien culture, who spend good money and time in getting to games only to waste the whole game wishing themselves back at home. Dead right I've no desire to be associated with their like.

[Super]

1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Nothing particularly disrespectful or disgraceful? 

https://millwall-forum.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/the-missing-player.33756/

Its been cleaned up. Some sick stuff last week.

[Aaron-Bcfc]

43 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

If you want to take things out of context up to you and you could couldn't be further from the truth, but answer me one thing - why sing it? Do you think it humerous, factual, ironic, provocative, for it sure as hell ain't any of those?

But as those who sing it are invariably straight off the CATS coaches, who stray no further than the police appointed pub, who've made little attempt to embrace or ingratiate themselves within an alien culture, who spend good money and time in getting to games only to waste the whole game wishing themselves back at home. Dead right I've no desire to be associated with their like.

Humourous, often factual, sometimes ironic. Not really provocative as I can’t think anyone other than yourself would be offended by it.

Get over yourself.

[BS4 on Tour...]

19 minutes ago, Super said:

Its been cleaned up. Some sick stuff last week.

Has it?! What made you look at the Millwall forum last week? 

[Olé]

5 minutes ago, hoxton casual said:

I think there a lot of decent Millwall fans

There absolutely are, sadly many of them don't go anymore. Talk to a few old boys regularly in my local who love their football, still love the club but follow at arms length, even living near the ground. 

I'm not going to suggest it's all down to the nutters - there isn't a lot of money round here and you can tell that for many the price of football has gone too far, in largely lean times supporting Millwall.

But I know a lot of them do not like the edge down there, few haven't been since the FA Cup semi at Wembley when it went off between their fans - Bermondsey and Rotherhithe lads settling a score.

 

I've been in the exact block where this video doing the rounds was recorded - it's where the biggest nutters always are. They beat the Gas 4-0 and some of them continually abused their own players.

People who think AG can be "toxic" really have no idea. There isn't anything like it at City. Yes I've heard the "P***" chant at times (and I do take offence to it) but abuse is a badge of honour for this lot.

C*** this c*** that, non stop for 90 minutes, it's like they're all auditioning for a role in a knock-off Ray Winstone film. The football is almost incidental. Just coked up and trying to impress one another.

Millwall is just a proxy for this all too. The big groups of lads who give out come in from Eltham, Dartford, Kent, or up from the suburbs like Bromley, Bexley etc. They've got the money and the swagger.

 

I know it's fashionable for opposition fans and media types to ridicule Millwall's community work but they're boxed in by train lines and industrial estates - and the problem isn't in the local community.

The Old Kent Road on one side and Woodpecker Estate on either side of the ground is mostly now church going Africans or street gangs, while some of Bermondsey north of it has gone full on hipster.

So the nearest "communities" are either completely detached from Millwall, or don't go anymore. Leaving those that travel in, going to extremes to protect an identity they want for the club. It's theatre.

[PHILINFRANCE]

4 hours ago, Moor2Sea said:

Clearly, you were never asked ‘got the time mate?’ on your away travels. 

I remember as a young teenager back in the 1970s walking back to the station from Ninian Park.

There had been a lot of trouble before, during and after the game and, as my friend and I reached the bridge, I was asked the time.

In my best Welsh accent,  I replied 'one nil' and, changing my walk to a jog, hurried on to the station.

I can still recall the look of astonishment at my would-be assailant's face at the illogical answer to the question he had most likely been asking for ages that evening. 

[RedRock]

47 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

If you want to take things out of context up to you and you could couldn't be further from the truth, but answer me one thing - why sing it? Do you think it humerous, factual, ironic, provocative, for it sure as hell ain't any of those?

But as those who sing it are invariably straight off the CATS coaches, who stray no further than the police appointed pub, who've made little attempt to embrace or ingratiate themselves within an alien culture, who spend good money and time in getting to games only to waste the whole game wishing themselves back at home. Dead right I've no desire to be associated with their like.

Reminds me in the old shared East End with Wolves ... they sung the standard  ‘Bristol’s a shithole, we want to go home’. Suppose we all could have complained about our hurt feelings and reasoned with them that the statement was flawed but responded with ‘ Wolves is a shithole, it’s where you belong’.

They had no response. They knew it was factually correct and stood there either pretending the exchange didn’t happen or nodded in acknowledgement of a good repost. No fisticuffs, just great satisfaction for us that Wolves had been put in their place..

Just a minor trivial example, even a little juvenile some might say but, hey, its called banter and makes a stadium a less sterile, boring, soulless, vacuum for many of us.

Suppose football crowds could be turned into ‘audiences’ with occasional clapping (obviously no standing) and a ‘Bristol ra, ra, ra’ jolly hockey sticks sort of chant but if I want that sort of experience I’ll go and watch the ‘Bears’ or the ‘Fliers’. 

 

[PHILINFRANCE]

6 hours ago, RedM said:

When I was growing up it wasn’t seen as offensive, it was actually a term of endearment, affection. People would go late evening shopping at the P shop which would be open way after the ‘lazy’ Brits had gone home at 5.30p. Thank God for the P shop many parents would say as they sent their kids along the road to get groceries, fags etc. Yes kids could be sold booze etc without question to take back to their parents.

Same with the C****** (chip shop), no McDonald’s etc back in the day, take away was a rare treat ( in my house anyway) and only the Chinese had chip shops open in the evening.

When I was very, very young I embarrassed my Dad by pointing to a man and asking why he was black. He, my Dad, hit me so hard, never forgotten that, and told me he was not black but a ‘coloured gentleman’.

So much has changed. People of my parents generation, who would be well into pension age now, still use some words and phrases which would be seen as offensive now but I don’t think they generally are racist as a whole. 

Your comments about the corner P*k* shop and Ch*nk* restaurants/chip shops echo my own youth; the latter often used to have young family members (schoolchildren) taking orders and serving as, invariably, they spoke English better than their parents.

It was your incident with the black man, however, that really brought back a vivid childhood memory, fresh in my mind more than fifty years later as I am still reminded of it by my mother.

We were on a bus going in to town, when a large and elderly West Indian gentleman boarded and sat down next to us.

Apparently, I had been learning my colours as I was only two or three years old at the time and, in that innocence only toddlers possess, I apparently asked my mother why the man was navy blue.

My embarrassed mother, rather than slapping me, explained that the man was not navy blue, but was, in fact, black (or perhaps brown I forget the precise details after so long).

Of course, rather than just accepting this simple response and letting the matter drop, I had to ask my mother why the man was black (or brown) and, now extremely embarrassed by my constant questions, my mother apologised to our fellow passenger.

Our new friend assured my mother that no offence had been taken and spent the rest of our bus journey explaining to an enthralled toddler how, as he came from a very hot and sunny island, where they grew bananas and sugar no less, his skin was dark in order to protect him from the sun - he also explained why his hair was curly and his nose was 'squashed', but the details have now faded somewhat.

Thus, thanks to that charming man regaling me with his island's history, I learned in that simple bus journey that racism is due to ignorance.    

   

 

[42nite]

4 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Football violence aside, that is. Knew someone would say that.

I've never been threatened because of my skin colour or had insults shouted at me over it. Many Asian people in the UK have.

I have.

In my younger days I was doing my job delivering food to a cafe in St. Pauls.

There were regulars in the cafe. The main man came towards me, called me a white rat and threatened me with a rather large dagger.

I was out of there and up the nearest drainpipe before you could say  'Stuff yer job, I quit!'

 

That was the only time though.

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, 42nite said:

I have.

In my younger days I was doing my job delivering food to a cafe in St. Pauls.

There were regulars in the cafe. The main man came towards me, called me a white rat and threatened me with a rather large dagger.

I was out of there and up the nearest drainpipe before you could say  'Stuff yer job, I quit!'

 

That was the only time though.

Never happened to me but it doesn't detract from the overall point. The fact non-white people can be racist ********* doesn't excuse either them or white people who do likewise.

Plenty of examples of it about unfortunately: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/47019134

[hoxton casual]

1 hour ago, Olé said:

There absolutely are, sadly many of them don't go anymore. Talk to a few old boys regularly in my local who love their football, still love the club but follow at arms length, even living near the ground. 

I'm not going to suggest it's all down to the nutters - there isn't a lot of money round here and you can tell that for many the price of football has gone too far, in largely lean times supporting Millwall.

But I know a lot of them do not like the edge down there, few haven't been since the FA Cup semi at Wembley when it went off between their fans - Bermondsey and Rotherhithe lads settling a score.

 

I've been in the exact block where this video doing the rounds was recorded - it's where the biggest nutters always are. They beat the Gas 4-0 and some of them continually abused their own players.

People who think AG can be "toxic" really have no idea. There isn't anything like it at City. Yes I've heard the "P***" chant at times (and I do take offence to it) but abuse is a badge of honour for this lot.

C*** this c*** that, non stop for 90 minutes, it's like they're all auditioning for a role in a knock-off Ray Winstone film. The football is almost incidental. Just coked up and trying to impress one another.

Millwall is just a proxy for this all too. The big groups of lads who give out come in from Eltham, Dartford, Kent, or up from the suburbs like Bromley, Bexley etc. They've got the money and the swagger.

 

I know it's fashionable for opposition fans and media types to ridicule Millwall's community work but they're boxed in by train lines and industrial estates - and the problem isn't in the local community.

The Old Kent Road on one side and Woodpecker Estate on either side of the ground is mostly now church going Africans or street gangs, while some of Bermondsey north of it has gone full on hipster.

So the nearest "communities" are either completely detached from Millwall, or don't go anymore. Leaving those that travel in, going to extremes to protect an identity they want for the club. It's theatre.

Really insightful analysis on a changing London, and how a myth has become a millstone around the club's neck.

[hoxton casual]

1 hour ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Your comments about the corner P*k* shop and Ch*nk* restaurants/chip shops echo my own youth; the latter often used to have young family members (schoolchildren) taking orders and serving as, invariably, they spoke English better than their parents.

It was your incident with the black man, however, that really brought back a vivid childhood memory, fresh in my mind more than fifty years later as I am still reminded of it by my mother.

We were on a bus going in to town, when a large and elderly West Indian gentleman boarded and sat down next to us.

Apparently, I had been learning my colours as I was only two or three years old at the time and, in that innocence only toddlers possess, I apparently asked my mother why the man was navy blue.

My embarrassed mother, rather than slapping me, explained that the man was not navy blue, but was, in fact, black (or perhaps brown I forget the precise details after so long).

Of course, rather than just accepting this simple response and letting the matter drop, I had to ask my mother why the man was black (or brown) and, now extremely embarrassed by my constant questions, my mother apologised to our fellow passenger.

Our new friend assured my mother that no offence had been taken and spent the rest of our bus journey explaining to an enthralled toddler how, as he came from a very hot and sunny island, where they grew bananas and sugar no less, his skin was dark in order to protect him from the sun - he also explained why his hair was curly and his nose was 'squashed', but the details have now faded somewhat.

Thus, thanks to that charming man regaling me with his island's history, I learned in that simple bus journey that racism is due to ignorance.    

   

 

Really interesting reflection.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Leeds fan...'face smashed in' perhaps is poetic license but I'm sure he came off pretty badly.

The question is, how provoked was it? Heard many versions of it. What I DO remember fairly clearly was Leeds fans on here and other forums gloating about infiltrating home ends in great numbers and that doubtless added edge, anger and territorial mindset to a game already likely to be fairly charged. Big game, first League meeting for Leeds in years at AG- all adds to the mix. Some things I heard suggested he merely cheered a goal- wrong yes, needs ejecting certainly and liable to provoke hostility, but other views suggested that as well as cheering, he taunted home fans, maybe pointed to his shirt, gave the come on gesture, pushed a steward- that would inflame things greatly and particularly in that context of the gloating online in the buildup. That doesn't mean it should be condoned, but it added fuel to the fire if true.

[PHILINFRANCE]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

There absolutely are, sadly many of them don't go anymore. Talk to a few old boys regularly in my local who love their football, still love the club but follow at arms length, even living near the ground. 

I'm not going to suggest it's all down to the nutters - there isn't a lot of money round here and you can tell that for many the price of football has gone too far, in largely lean times supporting Millwall.

But I know a lot of them do not like the edge down there, few haven't been since the FA Cup semi at Wembley when it went off between their fans - Bermondsey and Rotherhithe lads settling a score.

 

I've been in the exact block where this video doing the rounds was recorded - it's where the biggest nutters always are. They beat the Gas 4-0 and some of them continually abused their own players.

People who think AG can be "toxic" really have no idea. There isn't anything like it at City. Yes I've heard the "P***" chant at times (and I do take offence to it) but abuse is a badge of honour for this lot.

C*** this c*** that, non stop for 90 minutes, it's like they're all auditioning for a role in a knock-off Ray Winstone film. The football is almost incidental. Just coked up and trying to impress one another.

Millwall is just a proxy for this all too. The big groups of lads who give out come in from Eltham, Dartford, Kent, or up from the suburbs like Bromley, Bexley etc. They've got the money and the swagger.

 

I know it's fashionable for opposition fans and media types to ridicule Millwall's community work but they're boxed in by train lines and industrial estates - and the problem isn't in the local community.

The Old Kent Road on one side and Woodpecker Estate on either side of the ground is mostly now church going Africans or street gangs, while some of Bermondsey north of it has gone full on hipster.

So the nearest "communities" are either completely detached from Millwall, or don't go anymore. Leaving those that travel in, going to extremes to protect an identity they want for the club. It's theatre.

What is the latest on their stadium being sold for housing or something similar?

I read quite a lot on this some years ago, but it seems to have gone quiet.

I know I could probably research this on the Internet, but I read from your posts that you now live locally and socialise with some MIllwall fans, so thought you might be able to provide some up to date news.

[BobBobSuperBob]

Do you thing the scum brandishing the knife might have a few problems 

You’re on candid camera

Good riddance - give the ***** ten plus

[The Constant Rabbit]

I lived in Bermuda for 6 months - myself, wife and kids were regularly racially abused for being white.

 

Bank tellers pulling down shutters in your face, gangs of black youths telling us (outside our house) to 'get off our hill you white C***S'

Told to get out of a pub whilst trying to order lunch (with the kids) or we'd be another 'bunch of dead whiteys in the bay'

Black hair dye $5 - blonde hair dye, same size,same brand $20.

 

Dreadful place - however for them, their Rosa Parks moment only came in the 1980's - Blacks still had to sit at the back of the bus,stand up for white people etc

 

Back to England - in the 1970's everyone had a mate called Paki Pete or similar.

Remember the Wah Yin by the 3 Horseshoes (now Lions) - who didn't stop in for a chinky on the way home on a Friday night?

I really don't think there was any malice - just ignorance about other peoples feelings.

 

Nowadays, having been on the recieving end, plus having a gay son, it's easy to see why some can take offence.

 

What really gives me the irrits, (and my son agrees) is when snowflakes get upset on other peoples behalf.

My son, on more than one occasion has told people to shut the hell up about homophobia - if he's offended, he will tell them, not some 'enlightened' left wing heterosexual whos' only gay experience is watching 2 lesbians go at it on his computer!

 

Nowadays if anyone is using the term N******, Paki etc, then its willful racism. 100% willful.

 

I do however get frustrated when the 'Black Music Awards' are a 'thing' but any attempt to hold a 'white music awards' would find 5000 antifa outside waiting to pick on stragglers 20 v 1.

 

It's weird why so many people who aren't gay or black or muslim or whatever think that by banging on about how different these groups are and need special treatment is going to help them feel equal?

 

Do we need Black Music Awards?

Do we need a Muslim Police Officers Association

Do we need a gay mardi-gras and rainbow laces?

Usually organised by a non black,non-muslim heterosexual 

 

All they seem to do is draw attention to the fact that they are Black,Muslim or Gay - which I'm pretty sure they knew already!

 

Oh well - it's become quite a money making industry nowadays - being outraged.

Although I did have a little chuckle at 1000 Huffington Post and Buzzfeed hacks being laid off......

[Wanderingred]

I get so sick and tired of the persecuted old timer victim mentality a lot of people have these days.

"Ohh these snowflake, uber PC lefties trying to silence our thoughts".

Its utter rubbish. Just use common sense and there won't be any problems. Nobody is going to call you out on using an old nickname for a good friend as a term of endearment. Use it in a chant at a football match, however and there will be problems.

In other words, don't be a dick to people. It really is that simple.

[Wanderingred]

1 hour ago, SX227 said:

I lived in Bermuda for 6 months - myself, wife and kids were regularly racially abused for being white.

 

Bank tellers pulling down shutters in your face, gangs of black youths telling us (outside our house) to 'get off our hill you white C***S'

Told to get out of a pub whilst trying to order lunch (with the kids) or we'd be another 'bunch of dead whiteys in the bay'

Black hair dye $5 - blonde hair dye, same size,same brand $20.

 

Dreadful place - however for them, their Rosa Parks moment only came in the 1980's - Blacks still had to sit at the back of the bus,stand up for white people etc

 

Back to England - in the 1970's everyone had a mate called Paki Pete or similar.

Remember the Wah Yin by the 3 Horseshoes (now Lions) - who didn't stop in for a chinky on the way home on a Friday night?

I really don't think there was any malice - just ignorance about other peoples feelings.

 

Nowadays, having been on the recieving end, plus having a gay son, it's easy to see why some can take offence.

 

What really gives me the irrits, (and my son agrees) is when snowflakes get upset on other peoples behalf.

My son, on more than one occasion has told people to shut the hell up about homophobia - if he's offended, he will tell them, not some 'enlightened' left wing heterosexual whos' only gay experience is watching 2 lesbians go at it on his computer!

 

Nowadays if anyone is using the term N******, Paki etc, then its willful racism. 100% willful.

 

I do however get frustrated when the 'Black Music Awards' are a 'thing' but any attempt to hold a 'white music awards' would find 5000 antifa outside waiting to pick on stragglers 20 v 1.

 

It's weird why so many people who aren't gay or black or muslim or whatever think that by banging on about how different these groups are and need special treatment is going to help them feel equal?

 

Do we need Black Music Awards?

Do we need a Muslim Police Officers Association

Do we need a gay mardi-gras and rainbow laces?

Usually organised by a non black,non-muslim heterosexual 

 

All they seem to do is draw attention to the fact that they are Black,Muslim or Gay - which I'm pretty sure they knew already!

 

Oh well - it's become quite a money making industry nowadays - being outraged.

Although I did have a little chuckle at 1000 Huffington Post and Buzzfeed hacks being laid off......

I would say that yes, we still do. Being gay is still punishable by inprisonment and/or death in many countries. In others, it can result in social exclusion and risk of violence/intimidation. Even.in this country, homophobic attacks still regularly occur. As long as that sort of thing is still happening, pride events to raise awareness and funds for anti–homophobia charities are still worthwhile in my view.

[poland_exile]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Do you thing the scum brandishing the knife might have a few problems 

You’re on candid camera

Good riddance - give the ***** ten plus

Utter scumbags who use knives, I just don't understand that at all. A punch-up at football? Not to everyone's taste, but whatever. But going out to deliberately maim people and cause life-changing injuries jumps so over the line that it can't be thought of as being anything other than totally twisted. 

[The Constant Rabbit]

8 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

I would say that yes, we still do. Being gay is still punishable by inprisonment and/or death in many countries. In others, it can result in social exclusion and risk of violence/intimidation. Even.in this country, homophobic attacks still regularly occur. As long as that sort of thing is still happening, pride events to raise awareness and funds for anti–homophobia charities are still worthwhile in my view.

You need a charity to 'fight' homophobia? Really?

Are you honestly trying to say with a straight face that the Sydney Mardi-Gras is for Charity?? 

Oh my days!

I honestly don't know anyone, in this age of gay marriage that gives a shit about people being gay

I thought it was illegal to vilify someone for their sexuality. Let the Police do their job if someone cares enough to report it.

A classic example of the money to be made by being outraged.

 

PS: there is a common theme to the countries where homosexuality is punishable by death - living in China as you do, I'd imagine you'd pick that theme up pretty quickly.

 

 

 

 

[Super]

8 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Has it?! What made you look at the Millwall forum last week? 

It was on the cardiff forum.