Ian66 Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 Thought I'd post this on here rather than Wednesdays own forum so hopefully will get a more balanced view i was at Stamford Bridge yesterday and should start by saying after getting home and seeing the BBC footage I've no qualms whatsoever that both decisions ultimately were correct However here's the view from in the stadium We get given a penalty - at the far end and there's a fair bit of a delay which looks like it's because their player is getting treatment....a few minutes later it comes up on a big screen (which is halfway to the moon!) that VAR is reviewing the decision....then turns to decision overturned the biggest issue for me here is the mood switch of fans.....it's one thing appealing for a penalty and not been given it but another level when you are given it and then a few minutes later taken away Then 1 minute later they attack, tackle goes in, whistle blows, penalty given, nothing on the screen about VAR and they take and score the penalty Mood amongst the fans is one of massive unfairness....not about the decisions but why our was referred to VAR and there's wasn't - I know it was but to all in the stadium it wasnt They have got to improve communication with the fans.....It's almost like the game is moving towards been played for TV viewers and those in the stadium can make the best of it they can......I can only see trouble ahead. and one last thought on the game....mist telling chant from our end "you're not Chelsea any more".....they've even given the shed end to the away fans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 I think the simple answer is take the decision to refer to VAR out of the refs hand and give each manager 1 review. It just puts unecessary pressure on the ref. Use it and get it wrong, you lose it. Use it successfully, you retain it. Managers will learn to use it sensibly for clear injustices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy27 Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 16 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I think the simple answer is take the decision to refer to VAR out of the refs hand and give each manager 1 review. It just puts unecessary pressure on the ref. Use it and get it wrong, you lose it. Use it successfully, you retain it. Managers will learn to use it sensibly for clear injustices. I don't think the decision to review incidents lies with the referee anyway. VAR reviews all potential penalties/red cards etc. anyway as a matter of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 I hate VAR more than anything in football. I love the instant passion and emotions in football which VAR ruins completely. Dont care if every decision is correct or not. It’s not the most important thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 I’m not sure if this is correct but I think every goal scored when VAR is in use is automatically reviewed. Does anyone actually know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 The great thing about football is that it divides opinion. You and I could watch a Sheffield Wednesday v BCFC match, see the same incident and arrive at conclusions which are polar opposites of each other. Referees and linesmen/women do make mistakes but surely, these add to the drama of watching the game? I still vividly recollect the 1971 decision of one referee: Ray Tinkler to allow a WBA goal to stand which contributed to Leeds missing out on the title (how sad, never mind) but I believe that such events should be allowed to remain in the game. I don't want further sanitation of the game. I don't want to see decisions made on the pitch by the officials in good faith overturned from 100 miles away (unless of course, it happens in our favour ). I don't want controversy to disappear altogether from the game. I've already seen players haranguing referees and drawing imaginary TV screens in the air, when a penalty hasn't been given in their favour - I don't want that; I've heard fans singing "VAR, VAR" from the stands when a big decision has gone against their team - I don't want that. When my team has scored a goal, I want to celebrate it immediately, not wait for a far more muted celebration five minutes later after review by a faceless official in a studio. Refs and linos make mistakes. Let's live with them, I say. Sadly, the problem is, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecko Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 20 minutes ago, RedDave said: I hate VAR more than anything in football. I love the instant passion and emotions in football which VAR ruins completely. Dont care if every decision is correct or not. It’s not the most important thing Agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East End Old Boy Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 18 minutes ago, Robbored said: I’m not sure if this is correct but I think every goal scored when VAR is in use is automatically reviewed. Does anyone actually know? The Chelsea penalty was reviewed and no further action taken, so to answer your question, I presume the answer is yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East End Old Boy Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 27 minutes ago, RedDave said: I hate VAR more than anything in football. I love the instant passion and emotions in football which VAR ruins completely. Dont care if every decision is correct or not. It’s not the most important thing Fully agree, it’s killing the passion of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 Firstly i hate VAR with a passion, so i maybe a tad biased. As we have seen over the last couple of weeks they are making decisions with it when they are not "clear and Obvious" i.e. Harry Kane offside and to some respects Wednesday's penalty last night to me was not clear and obvious non pen. Also the Chelsea pen in my view was not a penalty, the player had actually passed the ball seconds before his little toe was stood on, if they give fouls for that then VAR is going to be used at nearly every pass, contact after player has played the ball. Also it is taking that split second elation out of the game, next we will be waiting around before we can celebrate a goal, whos going to bother after 2 minutes of VAR time. Thats the other thing, taking way too long to get a decision. I think the goal line technology is great, but VAR may just be the thing that takes the enjoyment out of the game for me and i stop going. but as i said i am biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 I believe from the World Cup that VAR was constantly reviewing decisions and would notify the ref on the pitch if they thought he should review it - he then had the choice to or not? They are in constant communication so it could well be the first one they've said "hey up ref let us check this, you might have got it wrong" and on the second they've said "we've had a second look already, definite pen dont need to review it" I haven't seen the game, but I assume that's the kind of conversation that's continually taking place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy27 Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, cidercity said: Also the Chelsea pen in my view was not a penalty, the player had actually passed the ball seconds before his little toe was stood on, if they give fouls for that then VAR is going to be used at nearly every pass, contact after player has played the ball. Don't disagree with everything you've said, but on this one you're having a laugh pal. Chelsea's penalty was as clear as day, you might even argue the Wednesday player was lucky not to be sent off! He raked his studs down Azpilicueta's shin and onto his foot without touching the ball. How does it make any difference whether he had already passed the ball? If someone got a punch in the face but had already passed the ball, is that OK? Your description of 'his little toe was stood on' is utterly ridiculous. I suggest you watch the incident again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 Each round in the FA Cup should be of a level playing field for every game. VAR should be used in every game...or not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: I think the simple answer is take the decision to refer to VAR out of the refs hand and give each manager 1 review. It just puts unecessary pressure on the ref. Use it and get it wrong, you lose it. Use it successfully, you retain it. Managers will learn to use it sensibly for clear injustices. The NFL does this. 2 per game and a third if you get the 2 previous correct. Managers would get this right over time. Also I am quite sure they have people on their staff looking at these and giving advice to the head coach on whether to challenge or not so I imagine would happen in football too. It needs to be refined like this imo. Then the waiting is a bit more acceptable as you know it won’t be too often. I’d be all for 1 per match per team and an extra if they correctly overturned a decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 12 minutes ago, Coxy27 said: Don't disagree with everything you've said, but on this one you're having a laugh pal. Chelsea's penalty was as clear as day, you might even argue the Wednesday player was lucky not to be sent off! He raked his studs down Azpilicueta's shin and onto his foot without touching the ball. How does it make any difference whether he had already passed the ball? If someone got a punch in the face but had already passed the ball, is that OK? Your description of 'his little toe was stood on' is utterly ridiculous. I suggest you watch the incident again. I did say i was a little biased, i want VAR to fail massively. I didn't notice him catch his shin, i take that bit back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHIPLEY RED Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, spudski said: Each round in the FA Cup should be of a level playing field for every game. VAR should be used in every game...or not at all. I have to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderEyed Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 **** VAR. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 I agree with the sentiment on here about VAR, don't like it, and prefer the controversy that goes with sometimes wrong decisions. There was something about the last World Cup though. So much was expected to go wrong and it all turned out so well. That included VAR; it seemed to work without too many problems, was used sensibly (if possibly inconsistently) and they just got away with it. I don't for a minute think that it will last like that, as we're now starting to see. It's becoming a pain, everything we feared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 It needs to be shown on the big screen and the ref needs to have a mic to explain the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City exile 79 Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Ian66 said: Thought I'd post this on here rather than Wednesdays own forum so hopefully will get a more balanced view i was at Stamford Bridge yesterday and should start by saying after getting home and seeing the BBC footage I've no qualms whatsoever that both decisions ultimately were correct However here's the view from in the stadium We get given a penalty - at the far end and there's a fair bit of a delay which looks like it's because their player is getting treatment....a few minutes later it comes up on a big screen (which is halfway to the moon!) that VAR is reviewing the decision....then turns to decision overturned the biggest issue for me here is the mood switch of fans.....it's one thing appealing for a penalty and not been given it but another level when you are given it and then a few minutes later taken away Then 1 minute later they attack, tackle goes in, whistle blows, penalty given, nothing on the screen about VAR and they take and score the penalty Mood amongst the fans is one of massive unfairness....not about the decisions but why our was referred to VAR and there's wasn't - I know it was but to all in the stadium it wasnt They have got to improve communication with the fans.....It's almost like the game is moving towards been played for TV viewers and those in the stadium can make the best of it they can......I can only see trouble ahead. and one last thought on the game....mist telling chant from our end "you're not Chelsea any more".....they've even given the shed end to the away fans! What I couldn’t understand stand was why if it was overturned didn’t you get a corner. Or why if a drop ball why not a contested one. Bearing in mind they practically went straight up the other end and got theirs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 1 hour ago, RedDave said: I hate VAR more than anything in football. I love the instant passion and emotions in football which VAR ruins completely. Dont care if every decision is correct or not. It’s not the most important thing I’m with you 100% Dave, I hate it with a passion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laner Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 My fear is that refs will begin to rely on VAR to make the decisions for them e.g. blow for a penalty and let the video decide. You see this already in rugby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Up The City! said: It needs to be shown on the big screen and the ref needs to have a mic to explain the decision. Shall we have time outs as well, have a defence team and an attacking team. Why not issue the officials with yellow flags as well....... Football isn’t a tv programme, it’s a passionate sport to watch live, tv has killed a game that I once loved watching at pro level. Would rather watch non league nowadays, there is passion in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Laner said: My fear is that refs will begin to rely on VAR to make the decisions for them e.g. blow for a penalty and let the video decide. You see this already in rugby. The Linos have already been directed to NOT flag for close calls, they have to leave that now for the tv companies.. oops, I mean var. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Portland Bill said: Shall we have time outs as well, have a defence team and an attacking team. Why not issue the officials with yellow flags as well....... Football isn’t a tv programme, it’s a passionate sport to watch live, tv has killed a game that I once loved watching at pro level. Would rather watch non league nowadays, there is passion in that game. Now you mention it, doesn't sound a bad idea. Imagine having 11 Aden Flint type players at a corner that we could just bring on. The time outs are a great idea, LJ can come onto the pitch and give some tactical talks whilst we go off to get a beer. How about we trial having two goal keepers at corners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meh Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 I like it and think it is a good system. I would rather important mistakes are rectified and not costly. Each to their own I guess. I agree every decision should clearly be shown on screens as VAR review being undertaken or something and personally I see no reason to not show the footage on screen. At AG the rugby reviews are shown as that is what the ref watches to make his final decision - nothing to hide so let fans see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, Laner said: My fear is that refs will begin to rely on VAR to make the decisions for them e.g. blow for a penalty and let the video decide. You see this already in rugby. Although interestingly I don't think you see this in Cricket or Tennis, which are the other two sports familiar to the UK in which video is extensively used. The only difference I can think of is that in Tennis and Cricket it is the competitors who refer a decision to the video rather than the officials. This forces the officials to continue to do their job - they call when a wicket is taken or when a serve is outside of the box - and the competitor then claims they are wrong. It retains the agency of the official on the pitch/court whilst still giving the competitor the (limited and controlled) option to contest the official call. To add, I think it works brilliantly in cricket. When you get a bowler absolutely convinced of an lbw call, so convinced that he talks his captain into spending a precious review on it. The captain refers it. The crowd waits patiently. The batsman stands nervously in the middle, sweating as the replay is played out in slow stages on the big screen. Pitch, in line. Impact, On-field. Wicket...miss! Decision; not out. It's fantastic drama that involves the crowd and adds to the spectacle. Now imagine a goalie or defender being convinced that a penalty should not have been given. He implores his captain to refer it. Captain hasn't seen it well and isn't sure. He looks over to bench but they aren't allowed to confer. He swallows, nods to his goalie and it gets referred upstairs. Played out on a big screen in slow-mo the whole crowd can see. In the box? Yes. Contact? Yes. Penalty? Yes! The goalie hangs his head under the withering gaze of his captain. The striker places the ball and the rest is history. That is how you integrate VAR; make it add to the drama rather than retract from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markman Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 Poor Show - worst thing that ever happened introducing this VAR process - I reckon that has split the Football Community as much as Brexit has the country - get RID OF IT - live with the mistakes it is football - that is why it is the best game in the world don't let the money and the TV (esp Sky) ruin it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Robbored said: I’m not sure if this is correct but I think every goal scored when VAR is in use is automatically reviewed. Does anyone actually know? Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1t_ref_again Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 I think VAR should have a very short review time limit placed, may be 20 or 30 seconds, that way it would have to be an obvious mistake, rather than taking ages trying to reach a definitive correct decision that someone was 2cm offside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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