Red Skin Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 Interesting article on the BBC website Has Mourinho been left behind? Personally, I think the man is a spent force. Whatever your view of LJ, he is always open to new ideas. And I think he learned alot about the sustainability of the high press from last season. We have found a different way of playing this season that has brought results and is now (with the addition of Palmer) bringing some decent performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCRED Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 Mourinho = Dinosaur There are quite a few who have reached there sell by date and let their ego get too big. Other managers/coaches have embraced new techniques and are the ones who are pushing the boundaries of the game to new levels through positive engagement with players. Only have to look at Southgate who has done wonders with the national side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 Yep, his £18m pay off from Man United has left him well behind..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted January 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Yep, his £18m pay off from Man United has left him well behind..... Tells a story in itself. Almost every appointment ends with the sack these days. The real problem at United is the structure above the manager and the owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, RedSkin said: Tells a story in itself. Almost every appointment ends with the sack these days. The real problem at United is the structure above the manager and the owners. Well, isn’t it inevitable that every football manager will get sacked? Isn’t the average tenure something like 16 months amongst the 92 clubs?! I think the days of the lengthy reigns enjoyed by Fergie and Wenger are well gone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 He still won two trophy’s at Utd, not league or champs league but he always wins tropheys, he will get another job and will win more I’m sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 Still a top manager for me. Achieved more, trophy-wise, than the two golden boys Pochettino and Klopp, put together. And Klopp spent about the same amount of money. Lest not forget that Mourinho also won the Premier League about 3 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted January 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 13 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: Still a top manager for me. Achieved more, trophy-wise, than the two golden boys Pochettino and Klopp, put together. And Klopp spent about the same amount of money. Lest not forget that Mourinho also won the Premier League about 3 years ago. Depends what you want from football. I'd take watching a Klopp or Pochettino team playing good football but winning nothing, over watching Mourinho football winning anything. It's the Pulis Paradox for me. The sort of success I'd consider as failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 45 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said: He still won two trophy’s at Utd, not league or champs league but he always wins tropheys, he will get another job and will win more I’m sure 15 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: Still a top manager for me. Achieved more, trophy-wise, than the two golden boys Pochettino and Klopp, put together. And Klopp spent about the same amount of money. Lest not forget that Mourinho also won the Premier League about 3 years ago. Yep, and I sort of admire Mourinho for still having the hunger for club management when he gets pay offs like the £18m Man Utd paid him to bugger off....sort of shows he’s still competitive and isn’t in the game just for the money....someone called him a dinosaur on here earlier, but his record is the sort that the current golden boys like Klopp, and Pochettino can only dream of....and who holds the record for the most points gained in their first 100 games as a top flight manager in England? It isn’t Guardiola, it’s Mourinho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 19 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: Still a top manager for me. Achieved more, trophy-wise, than the two golden boys Pochettino and Klopp, put together. And Klopp spent about the same amount of money. Lest not forget that Mourinho also won the Premier League about 3 years ago. Yep. Definetly left behind. Can't deal with the latest batch of young 'superstars' in a way they can respect him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, INCRED said: Mourinho = Dinosaur There are quite a few who have reached there sell by date and let their ego get too big. Other managers/coaches have embraced new techniques and are the ones who are pushing the boundaries of the game to new levels through positive engagement with players. Only have to look at Southgate who has done wonders with the national side You may not like his football and I do not but the man as a coach was far beyond virtually all the competition. In the link it mentions tactical periodisation. A methodology popularised by Mourinho and also used by Guardiola. Most are still catching up. Mourinho may have faltered but to paint him as a Dinosaur and not someone who has always been innovative is a mite crass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS5_RED Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 Jonathan Wilson wrote a really interesting chapter on Jose in his book on Barca. As Cowshed said he WAS ahead of time and took the psychology of player management to a whole new level. However, there is a reason why he only lasts 3 seasons at a club - the siege mentality act only goes so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garland-sweden Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 He have won a lot, yes. The way he wants to play the game is boring and defensiv. Look at Man United now with the Norwegian manager, the players are not limiten and have fun. Can understand If you have average players and play the style of Mourinho. He is an narcissist and can not see his part when he failes. In Chelsea it was the physio team, Real Madrid sacked him because the way he are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 6 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said: He still won two trophy’s at Utd, not league or champs league but he always wins tropheys, he will get another job and will win more I’m sure Trophies Utd fans used to regard as tinpot. And don't forget the Community Shield suddenly became a major competition when Mourinho won it, so that's 3 trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, chinapig said: Trophies Utd fans used to regard as tinpot. And don't forget the Community Shield suddenly became a major competition when Mourinho won it, so that's 3 trophies. I bet most of other clubs would be more than pleased. Granted Utd want to be winning the top honours like they have been used to under Ferguson but such a long and sustained period of winning is freakish, and not really comparable. IMO Jose was completely the wrong manager for Utd cause his way of playing doesn’t fit Utd, and Jose was battling between doing his usual successful thing and pleasing the Utd fans with great football, and he ended up falling in the middle somewhere. Poch this week said he thinks top 4 is more important than winning tropheys! If that’s modern football mentally than I’d rather have Jose anytime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 Which top club would realistically look to employ him, and which less than top club would his ego allow him to manage ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, Loon plage said: Which top club would realistically look to employ him, and which less than top club would his ego allow him to manage ? Can’t see anyone here in current top 6, but I’d expect in Italy he’d get a good job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 11 hours ago, RedSkin said: Tells a story in itself. Almost every appointment ends with the sack these days. The real problem at United is the structure above the manager and the owners. I read an interesting article which as good as suggested he almost deliberately sabotages things a couple of seasons in. That way he gets released....and gets a huge pay out... I mean...lets be honest, how he set United up was shocking He has had somewhere in the region of £75m in severance pay down the years ! crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimme Shelton Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 11 hours ago, RedSkin said: Depends what you want from football. I'd take watching a Klopp or Pochettino team playing good football but winning nothing, over watching Mourinho football winning anything. It's the Pulis Paradox for me. The sort of success I'd consider as failure. Pulis paradox,I like that expression! The sort of manager who prefers a Torpey over a Thorpe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 11 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said: Yep. Definetly left behind. Can't deal with the latest batch of young 'superstars' in a way they can respect him. Kids of today . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCulturalBomb Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 The character, arrogance and personality that made him who he is have turned incredibly bitter. His tactics and management of players have been left in the dust by Guardiola, Klopp among others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Andy082005 said: I read an interesting article which as good as suggested he almost deliberately sabotages things a couple of seasons in. That way he gets released....and gets a huge pay out... I mean...lets be honest, how he set United up was shocking He has had somewhere in the region of £75m in severance pay down the years ! crazy This. It may not be true, but he gives the impression of setting out to be sacked before the end of his contract on a serial basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderMB Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 Mourinho does well when he has good resources, and a team of players that are willing to die for him. If he has those ingredients, he's as good as any other manager in world football right now. Sometimes, those stars align, and we see him build absolutely dominant teams. He did so at Porto, his first stint at Chelsea, and at Inter Milan. Despite struggling with the big names, he also do what no one else could - beat the best Barcelona side in recent history to the league title. All of these were due to these ingredients. All of these teams bought into his ethos and he was rewarded with consistent winning. Since Real Madrid, it's not been so rosy. Sure, he won the Premier League with Chelsea, but the players no longer fear him, and with rising prices and wages, they know the power they hold. Even the best-paid managers hold a cost that is a drop in the ocean compared to the players they manage. With all that being said, I think Mourinho could do well if given the right team to manage. He needs a club with the resources to back him, and an underdog team that's down on its luck. If their owners were willing to back the team again, I could see him working wonders at Monaco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, EnderMB said: Mourinho does well when he has good resources, and a team of players that are willing to die for him. If he has those ingredients, he's as good as any other manager in world football right now. Sometimes, those stars align, and we see him build absolutely dominant teams. He did so at Porto, his first stint at Chelsea, and at Inter Milan. Despite struggling with the big names, he also do what no one else could - beat the best Barcelona side in recent history to the league title. All of these were due to these ingredients. All of these teams bought into his ethos and he was rewarded with consistent winning. Since Real Madrid, it's not been so rosy. Sure, he won the Premier League with Chelsea, but the players no longer fear him, and with rising prices and wages, they know the power they hold. Even the best-paid managers hold a cost that is a drop in the ocean compared to the players they manage. With all that being said, I think Mourinho could do well if given the right team to manage. He needs a club with the resources to back him, and an underdog team that's down on its luck. If their owners were willing to back the team again, I could see him working wonders at Monaco. I did wonder if Monaco would be a good fit although would he consider that a major backward step as they are a shadow of their former selves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 Back to Inter perhaps. Not that their current manager is doing much wrong so it'd be a harsh sacking, but that challenge at a club where he is a legend, yet a club that is getting back to where it wants to be steadily, with a big challenge at his disposal...Firstly knock Juventus off their perch and secondly build Inter over a number of years into a regular again in the CL say QF onwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 I said when he joined United he would spend lots of money, win a few trophies, fail to bring through young players, fall out with players then he leaves. Pretty much spot on I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, TheCulturalBomb said: The character, arrogance and personality that made him who he is have turned incredibly bitter. His tactics and management of players have been left in the dust by Guardiola, Klopp among others. I would argue that the Management of players is similar. They want players to sacrifice themselves to a collective goal. Guardiola is a authoritarian and control freak - Ibrahimovic was expected to bow his head and drive a club Audi to display humility. He didn't and went. Ronaldinho couldn't meet the collective aim gone. Decco likewise gone. Eto likewise was told to leave but mended his ways and entered into almost monastic training to meet Guardiolas demands for workrate. All three place great emphasis on the team, its ethics v being the star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider-manc Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 13 hours ago, AshtonGreat said: Still a top manager for me. Achieved more, trophy-wise, than the two golden boys Pochettino and Klopp, put together. And Klopp spent about the same amount of money. Lest not forget that Mourinho also won the Premier League about 3 years ago. Whilst he has achieved more trophy wise - He has always managed one of the top teams in the league. Porto (when he took over they were 5th and they finished in their lowest position for 20 years... they ended up 3rd). Chelsea (spending sums of money never seen before and already champions league). Inter (were reigning league champions and lacked real domestic rivals in aftermath of the match fixing scandal before he took over). Real Madrid (may have been up against a great Barca team... But they are Real Madrid! Winning trophies isn't even good enough - it has to be the European cup!). Manchester United (were struggling for them... but had still just won the FA cup and able to break the world transfer record for him). You could argue that he was expected to win trophies at these clubs - His main achievements trophy wise were the two European cups - the last one of which was nearly 9 years ago. I'm not trying to downplay his achievements (well I guess I am a little bit....) as it does take a special manager to win so much and others have failed in those managerial positions - But all his teams have come with spending power beyond most of his domestic rivals in divisons that the team is expected to do well in. In comparison Klopp took a relegation threatened Mainz to the top flight of German football for the first time in their history (and into the UEFA cup). He then took a young mid-table Dortmund to their first championship in a decade (to become back to back titles with a then record points tally) and to a European cup final. When he took over at Liverpool they were in a worse state than when Jose arrived at Manchester United. And whilst he has spent a considerable amount of money recently he has taken them to 3 different finals (that they weren't expected to get to) and currently has them sitting 4 points clear with a game in hand of a Manchester City team which is widely regarded as one of the best the English game has ever seen. Meanwhile Pochettino established and transformed Spurs with relatively cheap signings (Ali from MK for 6m, Trippier from Barnsley for £3.5m etc) and youth team products (Kane) into one of the best teams in the league and regular top 4/ cup semi final botherers- This season he didn't even sign a player whilst Jose moaned about not being able to buy another centre back despite having bought two for big bucks the previous season. My point being is that you can't just measure managerial achievement by trophies. i would argue that one of Mourinhos greatest achievements was bothering the status quo in Portugal with U.D Leiria I don't know if Mourinho is past it or not- I guess only time will tell. I will say that it wouldn't surprise my to see him winning trophies in the near future anymore than it would to see him struggle again. But there will be a long line of clubs looking at him as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted January 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Gimme Shelton said: Pulis paradox,I like that expression! The sort of manager who prefers a Torpey over a Thorpe. I am ashamed to say I used to boo the introduction of Steve Torpey when he came on (and obviously wasn't a starter that game). I used to hate the fact we immediately went route 1 with Torpey on the pitch. Like to think I'd appreciate his attributes a bit more these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Back to Inter perhaps. Not that their current manager is doing much wrong so it'd be a harsh sacking, but that challenge at a club where he is a legend, yet a club that is getting back to where it wants to be steadily, with a big challenge at his disposal...Firstly knock Juventus off their perch and secondly build Inter over a number of years into a regular again in the CL say QF onwards. "Mourinho" and "over a number of years" do not go together. Not in the slightest. The chances of Mourinho doing a long term thing like that is akin to us winning the Europa League next season. Utterly laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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