Semenyo - Unnecessary Pressure

[Lew-T]

2 minutes ago, Selred said:

Quite there’s a few reasons,

1) Semenyo is match sharp, Eisa isn’t after injuries.

2) Semenyo rejoining shows the pathway for young players. 

3) We can get more money from whatever club Semenyo joins if it goes to a tribunal, by playing him in the Championship. 

Sadly, I think 3) is what we’re concerned about the most.

[Silvio Dante]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

So Lloyd Kelly aged early 20's...only played Academy then put into our first team is ok...but Semenyo...20 next week, played men's footy at Bath and 21 League and Cup games for Newport isn't?

Jay Da Silva only 20...played a few more League and Cup games than Semenyo  at Charlton on loan, before coming here.

If you are good enough...you are old enough.

You've only got to watch Semenyo play to see he's an outstanding talent and physically and mentally older than his footballing years.

Watching him against Boro, you can see he's good enough for this level.

Some players adapt quicker than others, regardless of age and experience.

Look at elliason as an example.

Just to slightly correct you Spud - he turned 19 the day after the Leicester game, so isn’t 20 for a year or so. Doesn’t change the overall thought though.

The thought that keeps coming to me is that if we’d have let AS stay at Newport and then loaned him out again next season, then people would have been up in arms. So, why is another 18 odd games in league 2 better for him than maybe 1/3 of that 2 levels up, while training with better players each day?

Don’t get me wrong, I’d have liked a Hogan/Assombalonga etc. But that’s not to be - and in effect we’re signing league 2’s best player and a Chelsea target. Why the faux outrage from some at that (and don’t say Eisa. Different age, different player, different development stage)

[Selred]

3 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Sadly, I think 3) is what we’re concerned about the most.

If we were to sell him in the summer anyway why not make as much as we can?

[BCFC11]

As far as I’m aware the club haven’t said anything regards to what’s happening with Semenyo? Jamie Mac refused to say anything about bids from Chelsea, so maybe the reason why they haven’t said anything is NOT to put pressure on him, if he’s been recalled to be part of the 1st team.

[spudski]

11 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Kelly came into the picture at the start of a season, no real pressure and had time to settle in. Has represented England youth

Jay Da Silva has also represented England and Chelsea youth sections. 

I think it’s a risk that could have been easily avoided. Why bother bringing him back? Let him carry on and play football.

No offence Lew...but where is there pressure?

He's shown he's good enough at League 1 and against Championship sides...and can now have half a seasons experience at this level.

He'll be in an around the first team squad...and has players ahead of him.

The coaching team, Tinnion and players will all know better than we do.

We are doing very well at introducing players at the right time recently...I trust the Club right now to make that decision.

Plus...we have no idea what is in the head of this lad. Whether he wants to stay, go or show what he can do.

[Davefevs]

Some options assuming Semenyo doesn’t go to Chelsea in the next hour or so:

1. he’s integrated into first team squad, does well, proving why Chelsea were after him, attracting more interest and perhaps a bigger fee in the summer
2. as 1, but he enjoys playing and wants to stay
3. He’s integrated into the first team, doesn’t live up to expectations, interest dies down, and we develop him like we would do most of our players
4. etc.

i know it’s treacherous, but worth listening to Gregor’s take on ROTW podcast, especially re selling McCoulsky to clear the pathway for Antoine.

[Jcolebristol]

18 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Just to slightly correct you Spud - he turned 19 the day after the Leicester game, so isn’t 20 for a year or so. Doesn’t change the overall thought though.

The thought that keeps coming to me is that if we’d have let AS stay at Newport and then loaned him out again next season, then people would have been up in arms. So, why is another 18 odd games in league 2 better for him than maybe 1/3 of that 2 levels up, while training with better players each day?

Don’t get me wrong, I’d have liked a Hogan/Assombalonga etc. But that’s not to be - and in effect we’re signing league 2’s best player and a Chelsea target. Why the faux outrage from some at that (and don’t say Eisa. Different age, different player, different development stage)

Eisa...

[ralphindevon]

Can't wait to see him given a chance in the championship. 

Kylian Mbappé was just preparing to star in and win a world cup at his age.

 

[steviestevieneville]

[Guest]

I see where the OP is coming from but wouldn’t say it’s a bad thing. Semenyo has come back with a huge profile, there is no doubting that. He’s going to get minutes, there is no doubting that, and expectations are going to be high of a lad Chelsea are seriously interested in, there is no doubting that. But kids generally thrive off that pressure. It’s up to the fan base to be grounded, encouraging and supportive. It’s us who create the pressure, not the club. 

As for a summary of the window I think it is a bad one, unfortunately. We did need another striker and I don’t think Semenyo was the one for us; as wrong as I’d love to be. We are battling for playoffs, playoffs need grit, experience and a tough character. We had to inject some experience into the squad in my opinion. Not experience in minutes, experience of the big stage. 

Now people always say January is a seller’s market. Ummm, well done captain obvious. This is when clubs are half way through a season and you can see what they are gambling on; safety or promotion. You might pay big to stay up (Tomlin) or pay big to go up (Mitrovic). The trouble with our clubs approach is, I think, we build too much on the summer. The summer is your backbone, January is your impetus. Too often we’ve treaded too carefully in January unless we are at the wrong end. I think that’s what holds us back. We need to grow some balls frankly. Assombalonga, Vokes, Leo; all were available and yes, not cheap, but my that’s because we could have had extreme riches if it works. 

I do think we will once again look back at wasted momentum. However, we can’t lose sight of the fact that we have a very strong squad now and it bodes well for the future. One day, if we want to go up, we just have to accept January is where you inject the spark, and it costs you, but it will reward you; just as Tomlin’s loan did. 

[cidered abroad]

Aged nineteen, living the dream that he may have had since he was a toddler.

Playing football as a job, getting paid for doing so, winning titles, cups and caps. 

Pressure? Of course there is pressure. Pressure from the Club from his teammates but above all from within himself to be a success.

No different to Gow, Atyeo, Ritchie, Kelly, Merrick, Doherty, Garland, Cotterill, Derrick and dozens of others who broke into the City first team at around the same age.

He will have good games, poor one's, make silly mistakes, win matches on his own.

I and thousands of other football fanatics could only dream about where he is. Lucky isn't he if he takes his opportunities and is a big success.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Aged nineteen, living the dream that he may have had since he was a toddler.

Playing football as a job, getting paid for doing so, winning titles, cups and caps. 

Pressure? Of course there is pressure. Pressure from the Club from his teammates but above all from within himself to be a success.

No different to Gow, Atyeo, Ritchie, Kelly, Merrick, Doherty, Garland, Cotterill, Derrick and dozens of others who broke into the City first team at around the same age.

He will have good games, poor one's, make silly mistakes, win matches on his own.

I and thousands of other football fanatics could only dream about where he is. Lucky isn't he if he takes his opportunities and is a big success.

Just don’t forget Chelsea wanted him, in his mind I hope he’s not thinking shit, I hope I don’t play myself out of that. The ‘once in a lifetime’ fear of missing out. That’s a different type of pressure we shouldn’t dismiss. 

Frankly I think we made the wrong call. He should have gone. What a story for our next generation... don’t dismiss going to fking Newport or wherever, you play well you will be spotted, look at Semenyo. Now you could say we have that rhetoric anyway, I accept we do, it’s damn more impactful if we sold him, if he increased his wages x fold etc. If he comes in, struggles in the championship and ends up not fulfilling his potential, it’s a shit story. 

This, I think, is the real pressure. It’s all on Semenyo not to perform, but to keep the interest in him. It’s a big gamble by our club. Look at David Cotterril - anyone wanna tell me we didn’t do right to cash in on him? 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Interesting listening to that podcast Dave. Gregor believes a player for our under 23s is better than Semenyo. He probably means will be better in the future, but it sounds promising. My guess is he is talking about Pearson. We have so many talented young players now we are going to have to sell quite a few in windows to come to clear the pathway. I think what we are doing with Semenyo is the right thing to do. We probably lose him in the summer if he does really well, but at least we probably get more than 2 million for him. Or even keep him till the following winter and he might be worth even more then if we have a year option.

Wrong, it’s sooo easy for him to look a rabbit in the headlights in the championship, for him to get absolutely bullied as the kid Chelsea wanted by opposition and the interest to fade if he crumbles. It’s not a no risk gamble, for us or for him. We’ve gambled on him performing well, make no mistake. He could equally be the next Marvin Brown. 

[Hampshire Red]

This is a great OP and 90% of thread is interesting. Shame keep up lino can't keep up the quality but is just attention-seeking waste of space

Trust in the coaches and management-this club is going rapidly now and in the best direction possible and certainly this forum doesn't need moaners and unhappy clappers! 

[Jerseybean]

So it seems the position is he stays with us until the end of the season and then I guess we / he review options. In the meantime:

- He gets the chance to train and play with the first team squad

- He may have been given a pledge that if he still wants to leave at the end of the season the Club won’t stop him 

Which, if correct, seems a sensible approach for the Club and player. It gives him the opportunity to prove himself, albeit it delays a move by a few months. If he shines we may get more for him and if he doesn’t he is still a young player with great potential.

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/exclusive-chelsea-knocked-back-in-bid-for-bristol-city-sensation

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Marvin Brown never looked good above youth level. Semenyo was exceptional against a prem side, and apparently brilliant vs Boro though I missed that one.

Francis Jeffers then? When league 2 beat prem in the cup, it doesn’t mean League 2 were better or played out of their skin, it means prem weren’t up for it. A bit like Man Utd here, if Pogba et al wanted to win that game with their hearts desire, it would have been over in 20m

pogba won the World Cup 6 months after that game. That pack made him look ordinary isn’t because pack is a world class player... let’s be frank. It is the Sarri motivation issue. They thought they could walk it and Newport etc had the Adrenalin. That doesn’t translate to league peers. 

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

Jack Clark at Leeds is doing well and he is 18.   Our coaches will know if he is good enough technically for this level.  I’m told he is and that Mo Elsa needs regular games to improve and he isn’t quite ready for this level yet.  

Cant see the problem to be honest.   If Semenyo comes in and bangs in half a dozen goals or more then he then becomes an 8 million pound player.  

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

Jack Clark at Leeds is doing well and he is 18.   Our coaches will know if he is good enough technically for this level.  I’m told he is and that Mo Elsa needs regular games to improve and he isn’t quite ready for this level yet.  

Cant see the problem to be honest.   If Semenyo comes in and bangs in half a dozen goals or more then he then becomes an 8 million pound player.  

And if he scores none? Sometimes a loss-leader is worth it. We could have insured against that with a sell on clause. Let Chelsea take the gamble, loan him out, then if he performs we will get paid a la Bolasie, a la McCoulskey. We could have sold him, had an investment in him, and pretty much paid for Assombalonga on loan. I can't see how we have made the right decision there. I'm sat here contemplating we have gambled more through cautiousness; illogical, but I think that's what we've done. 

[Sitrom]

All I know about this lad is that respected analyst Martin Keown said, "Newport's Antoine Semenyo showed he is a star in the making."  And Keown isn't just some random lunatic.

 

 

Well... I mean...not random..

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah it is possible. But Chelsea believe he can be a top prem striker, City believe he is ready now for championship. At what point do they give him a go otherwise?

Not sure Chelsea do to be honest. I saw an article on BBC today about the academy players Man City have flogged, it was something like £160m on players who haven't played more than a few hours between them. It is a trading business. Take Piazon they (Chelsea) don't see him as top class, but they made money, take kalas , not premier league, but they'll sale for more than he cost. Take Palmer, I think they see £10m, not the next Hazard. Solanke, is another perfect example. If you are at a big club, given enough profile, doesn't matter how many minutes you get, you're a ridiculous, unexplainable fee. 

Personally, I think he was an investment and I think we possibly made the wrong call. 20% sell on, we could have been looking at another £2m for him without him getting near the first team. 

[Lympsham Red]

I wouldn't be surprised if Semenyo himself spoke to LJ when the Chelsea bid came in and asked to play in the first team. LJ might've told Semenyo he didn't want to lose him and asked what he had to do to keep him here, and Semenyo could've asked to have a run in the first team to prove himself at a higher level; in which case, he knows the score, understands the pressure he'll be under, and is chomping at the bit for it.

Just a theory.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Feels like groundhog day. Again. 

We'll never get out of this league. Not that I'm complaining, I like championship football and this is our level. 

[Sitrom]

3 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Feels like groundhog day. Again. 

We'll never get out of this league. Not that I'm complaining, I like championship football and this is our level. 

I agree with the latter part.  I'm also not complaining and like the championship.

But... i feel we are making progress.  I remember countless games where we had a soft underbelly.  You can re-watch one matches lowlights in particular in that excellent documentary 'Sunderland til I Cry'.  I think we have improved since that disaster.  I think we are more difficult to beat now.  And that's without my favourite (love Korey) in the side.  Yeah we need more firepower.  Maybe this kid will help.  Maybe he won't.  But I still think it has been a really good season.  And I think if we don't go up it will be even better next season.  Plus January transfer window is poo..  

[BLRed]

If he is as good as he and all the top clubs think he is and will be then the challenge should be accepted with arms wide open. It will be a test as to whether he can be as good as many think. He's at eisas level at a much younger age yet stronger and potentially smarter in his decision making. I hope he floureshes, bags loads of goals and either helps us reach play offs or at least raises his profile to enable a much bigger sell on fee.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Sitrom said:

Plus January transfer window is poo..  

See, I just think that is the mentality of this club and I think it is so damn wrong. January window is great. It exists to stop teams buying the league in the latter stages; that was its raison d’etre; it’s naive not to use it for the same purpose but accelerated. 

The Jan window is expensive. Of course it is, that’s because you are half way through a season and you have shown your hand. BCFC go into this window showing our hand of playoff competitors; well yeah if we sell you a striker that bags you goals you will pay a premium. That’s why you don’t buy/pursue Diony who isn’t playing, you pay over the odds for someone in form or of permanent class. You also have the knowledge of the players ‘form’. 

Talk about this season being great, standing back... has it? Results have been, entertainment has been extremely lacking if I’m honest. If this is what football is becoming, it’s got a shelf life for me. 

Maybe I’m just glass barely half full tonight and in a couple of weeks I’ll chin up, just really not happy at what I see as history repeating... wasted momentum. 

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

35 minutes ago, 29AR said:

And if he scores none? Sometimes a loss-leader is worth it. We could have insured against that with a sell on clause. Let Chelsea take the gamble, loan him out, then if he performs we will get paid a la Bolasie, a la McCoulskey. We could have sold him, had an investment in him, and pretty much paid for Assombalonga on loan. I can't see how we have made the right decision there. I'm sat here contemplating we have gambled more through cautiousness; illogical, but I think that's what we've done. 

If he scores none then his value could still go up. Look at Abraham.  Had Chelsea sold him to us for 2 million we would have had 20 million of talent on our books.  I think it would have been bad business to let him go.  

O and Assobalonga was never going to happen.  Outside of our wage structure and could upset the apple cart 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, BOSRed said:

If he is as good as he and all the top clubs think he is and will be then the challenge should be accepted with arms wide open. It will be a test as to whether he can be as good as many think. He's at eisas level at a much younger age yet stronger and potentially smarter in his decision making. I hope he floureshes, bags loads of goals and either helps us reach play offs or at least raises his profile to enable a much bigger sell on fee.

Where are we getting this ‘as good as top clubs think he is’ from? Man City sold some guy who never played for them for £10m today, £2m is nothing for academy trade for them. 

[Sitrom]

1 minute ago, 29AR said:

See, I just think that is the mentality of this club and I think it is so damn wrong. January window is great. It exists to stop teams buying the league in the latter stages; that was its raison d’etre; it’s naive not to use it for the same purpose but accelerated. 

The Jan window is expensive. Of course it is, that’s because you are half way through a season and you have shown your hand. BCFC go into this window showing our hand of playoff competitors; well yeah if we sell you a striker that bags you goals you will pay a premium. That’s why you don’t buy/pursue Diony who isn’t playing, you pay over the odds for someone in form or of permanent class. You also have the knowledge of the players ‘form’. 

Talk about this season being great, standing back... has it? Results have been, entertainment has been extremely lacking if I’m honest. If this is what football is becoming, it’s got a shelf life for me. 

Maybe I’m just glass barely half full tonight and in a couple of weeks I’ll chin up, just really not happy at what I see as history repeating... wasted momentum. 

I value and take on your opinion.  Yeah.  Maybe you're right.  I'm just under the opinion that we take baby steps and don't go all in.  That's just me.  I've gone through 3 relegations.  These two last season are the best it has been for a long time.  So I would advise caution.  But they do say fortune favours the brave.  And you kinda changed my mind.  

[cidered abroad]

5 minutes ago, 29AR said:

See, I just think that is the mentality of this club and I think it is so damn wrong. January window is great. It exists to stop teams buying the league in the latter stages; that was its raison d’etre; it’s naive not to use it for the same purpose but accelerated. 

The Jan window is expensive. Of course it is, that’s because you are half way through a season and you have shown your hand. BCFC go into this window showing our hand of playoff competitors; well yeah if we sell you a striker that bags you goals you will pay a premium. That’s why you don’t buy/pursue Diony who isn’t playing, you pay over the odds for someone in form or of permanent class. You also have the knowledge of the players ‘form’. 

Talk about this season being great, standing back... has it? Results have been, entertainment has been extremely lacking if I’m honest. If this is what football is becoming, it’s got a shelf life for me. 

Maybe I’m just glass barely half full tonight and in a couple of weeks I’ll chin up, just really not happy at what I see as history repeating... wasted momentum. 

I thought I was a pessimist until.........

.........

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

If he scores none then his value could still go up. Look at Abraham.  Had Chelsea sold him to us for 2 million we would have had 20 million of talent on our books.  I think it would have been bad business to let him go.  

O and Assobalonga was never going to happen.  Outside of our wage structure and could upset the apple cart 

Well Abraham would have been worth pretty much nada if he didn’t perform here so not sure I follow your line there? Apologies if I’m being stupid. 

Re Assom... agree on a permanent; the point I’m making is we could have sold Semenyo for £2m and covered Assom for the half season whilst also having an investment in Semenyo in a sell on clause. I don’t understand why we would take the retain approach. Semenyo might be worth £10m, sure, that’s at most an £8m gain, Assombalonga might have given us the firepower for the playoffs - even if we didn’t win them that’s a lot of media profile and attraction for future players, and if he did win us promotion it makes Semenyo gain totally immaterial. If Assombalonga flopped oh well, we might still get money on Semenyo as we did Bolasie. 

I just don’t understand the ‘commercial nous’; I think the only sane thing to do was to let Semenyo go, inspire youth players going to unfavoured places like Newport, retain investment in him, and let the fee cover a balls to the wall loan signing.